The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

[rooney]

PMQ's should be interesting today BBC 2 12 noon.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Correct.

Let's not forget that the literal interpretation of the coronavirus act also (unfortunately) puts the law on Boris's side.  It wasn't his garden where the party was happening (it was in No10, he lives in No11), he didn't organise the party.  There is a possibility that he 'could' be held liable as he is technically the most 'senior officer' within the organisation where the party was held, however, the law was written so that any discretions were decided by the local constables (presumbly to make it easier to fine the plebs!) and they will argue that the constables guarding number 10 clearly didn't report any breaches of the law.  Moreover it could be argued that the same constables were involved in managing entry into the premises.

Even in the incredibly unlikely event that Sue will report any wrongdoings and they are not subsequently whitewashed, the maximum penalty is a small fine, which no doubt one of Boris's donors will pay anyway!

I know that some people feel the Gov't and party leaders should have morals but I gave up on that particular fairytale many years ago.  This is meant as a literal interpreation of the Coronavirus Act 2020 regarding events and gatherings (S22(5)) and Premises (S22(6)-(8)) as found here and not a defence of Boris and his cronies who were clearly all in the wrong.

I wouldn’t try the no. 10/11 defence. The garden is common to both and his official residence is number 10.

[AlexLaw76]

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Two pathological liars. Which one to believe ? 🙄

Perhaps we should think about the fact that the man who made the rules probably didn’t need someone to explain them to him.

Still, I am sure it amused you Brett.

[Sheaf Saint]

3 hours ago, rooney said:

PMQ's should be interesting today BBC 2 12 noon.

I know this will never happen because PMQs is nothing more than a pointless pantomime that serves only to highlight how backward looking our entire political system is, but I would love it if, just once, the speaker actually stood up and insisted that the mealy mouthed word salad that just passed the PM's lips is in no way relevant to the actual question put to him and that he must give a more satisfactory answer before being allowed to move on.

[buctootim]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Is Johnson contradicting Cummings then? Has he rebutted any of the Cummings allegations? Or are you just attempting to blow smoke?   

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Johnson is as much of a liar as Cummings so I guess you just use common sense and work out for yourself what is most likely to be the truth.

"I didn't realise the party I was at was a party' is about the same level as "I drove 60 miles to test my eyes" on the bullshit scale.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

21 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I know this will never happen because PMQs is nothing more than a pointless pantomime that serves only to highlight how backward looking our entire political system is, but I would love it if, just once, the speaker actually stood up and insisted that the mealy mouthed word salad that just passed the PM's lips is in no way relevant to the actual question put to him and that he must give a more satisfactory answer before being allowed to move on.

Completely agree.  Would be a huge boost to our democracy is the Prime Minister was forced to actually answer the question posed to him.

[edprice1984]

David Davis stuck the knife in. Although I am not a fan of Davis, he has always been seen as a principled man and someone who has deep connections within the party. This combined with one of the Red Wall 2019 MP's crossing the floor suggests at best total chaos, at worst (at least for Boris) the end is nigh!

[buctootim]

21 minutes ago, edprice1984 said:

David Davis stuck the knife in. Although I am not a fan of Davis, he has always been seen as a principled man and someone who has deep connections within the party. This combined with one of the Red Wall 2019 MP's crossing the floor suggests at best total chaos, at worst (at least for Boris) the end is nigh!

I'm more surprised by the Brexity MPs sticking the knife in. Would be interesting to know if they sense a Brexit 'betrayal'    

[rallyboy]

If Cummings is now recognised as a liar and Johnson has continued to be a liar, where does that now leave their whole Brexit campaign?

 

[AlexLaw76]

Bet Boris is wishing he'd lied about something less trivial than a garden party. Like WMDs or something.

[badgerx16]

8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Bet Boris is wishing he'd lied about something less trivial than a garden party. Like WMDs or something.

Deflecting the debate does not negate his culpability.

[buctootim]

13 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Bet Boris is wishing he'd lied about something less trivial than a garden party. Like WMDs or something.

He lied about almost everything - defence procurement, triple lock, northern regeneration ad infinitum. The parties were just the final straw.   

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, buctootim said:

He lied about almost everything - defence procurement, triple lock, northern regeneration ad infinitum. The parties were just the final straw.   

He is a goner; probably over the next few weeks

[Whitey Grandad]

38 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Bet Boris is wishing he'd lied about something less trivial than a garden party. Like WMDs or something.

He lied to Parliament which is a Cardinal Sin. Lying to the public counts for nothing at Westminster.

[edprice1984]

I doubt Brexit is at the forefront of their minds, rather the increasingly dawning reality that despite the obvious short-comings of the Labour Party and their front bench, they may be heading towards a perfect storm of a collapse of trust in the Conservatives (or at least their leaders), a massive squeeze of incomes and cost of living, a demographic change and general apathy and resentment to any party in power for over a decade. On current trends I can quite easily see a Labour majority hung parliament with SNP support.

My gut is that they probably have one chance to get rid of Boris and allow Rishi*, who I would suggest is generally scene as capable, intelligent and not a total knob by the General public, to get an opportunity to do some stuff that might keep the wolves at bay for another election.

*Rishi may still be utterly dreadful despite his quite sensible football affiliation - most commentators thought Brown and May would be capable PM's.

[rooney]

2 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I know this will never happen because PMQs is nothing more than a pointless pantomime that serves only to highlight how backward looking our entire political system is, but I would love it if, just once, the speaker actually stood up and insisted that the mealy mouthed word salad that just passed the PM's lips is in no way relevant to the actual question put to him and that he must give a more satisfactory answer before being allowed to move on.

But it was better than I could have ever anticipated.

[Warriorsaint]

Tories are cunts. Nuff said

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Two pathological liars. Which one to believe ? 🙄

Perhaps we should think about the fact that the man who made the rules probably didn’t need someone to explain them to him.

Still, I am sure it amused you Brett.

Bless you for thinking that Boris came up with the rules all on his own 

[Sheaf Saint]

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Bless you for thinking that Boris came up with the rules all on his own 

I don't think anyone is suggesting for a second that he wrote them himself, but he was the one who stood at that briefing platform and told the entire nation what the rules were. For him to now claim that nobody warned him the party was against the rules suggests he is either a) a liar or b) an imbecile who shouldn't be anywhere near the levers of power in Government. 

Either way, he has to go.

[Whitey Grandad]

18 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Bless you for thinking that Boris came up with the rules all on his own 

Doesn't matter. He's in charge and he carries the can. He ought to have known. If he did then he has lied to Parliament. If he didn't then what's he doing there?

[badgerx16]

53 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Bless you for thinking that Boris came up with the rules all on his own 

Boris is the PM, the rules were introduced on his watch by his Cabinet, he owns them.

[Tamesaint]

Has anyone listened to  Fighting Talk on 5 live  each Saturday  morning? The light hearted show finishes with "Defend the indefencible." Panellists have to defend a clearly stupid, ridiculous position  on a topic. Very amusing.

I reckon the usual gammon on here are practicing for being on the show. 😉

 

 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Doesn't matter. He's in charge and he carries the can. He ought to have known. If he did then he has lied to Parliament. If he didn't then what's he doing there?

Again, as outlined above, he (technically) hasn't broken the law.  Morally it's a different matter, but you'll be continually disappointed if you're expecting the PM to have morals.

As an 'attendee' at the 'party', the only way he could have possibly been prosecuted is if a constable asked him to leave and he didn't.  He hasn't denied his attendance and there has been no mention of police involvement during the party.

Again, (to make it clear to Tamesaint, who sadly has yet to comprehend my previous post by the look of things), I am not intending to defend Boris and am only highlighting what the law says on the subject.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Boris is the PM, the rules were introduced on his watch by his Cabinet, he owns them.

Yep.

Doesn't mean he broke them.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting for a second that he wrote them himself, but he was the one who stood at that briefing platform and told the entire nation what the rules were. For him to now claim that nobody warned him the party was against the rules suggests he is either a) a liar or b) an imbecile who shouldn't be anywhere near the levers of power in Government. 

Either way, he has to go.

Well, except for Soggy who stated "the man who wrote the rules"....

[AlexLaw76]

Not that I think it will happen, but imagine the meltdown on here, twitter and BBC/Sky/Guardian/Mirror, if the PM is found to be clean over these incidents.

[revolution saint]

Ultimately I think Boris will only go if someone relatively credible sticks their head up and makes it clear they're interested in the job.  I doubt they'll get to the number of letters needed to trigger a vote of no confidence without it, but if they did then I still think he'd pass unless it was clear that there was a decent alternative.  

[Weston Super Saint]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not that I think it will happen, but imagine the meltdown on here, twitter and BBC/Sky/Guardian/Mirror, if the PM is found to be clean over these incidents.

No doubt about it, he will be.  Sue will see to that  

[whelk]

Damage is done and report sure to be an anticlimax. In many ways doesn’t matter. Popular opinion has been decided and yet to speak to anyone who has a good word to say about him. He has basically fucked off everyone and everyone knows it

[Sheaf Saint]

17 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Again, as outlined above, he (technically) hasn't broken the law.  Morally it's a different matter, but you'll be continually disappointed if you're expecting the PM to have morals.

As an 'attendee' at the 'party', the only way he could have possibly been prosecuted is if a constable asked him to leave and he didn't.  He hasn't denied his attendance and there has been no mention of police involvement during the party.

Again, (to make it clear to Tamesaint, who sadly has yet to comprehend my previous post by the look of things), I am not intending to defend Boris and am only highlighting what the law says on the subject.

He did originally, until it became obvious that there was evidence to the contrary.

[ecuk268]

With all the noise about "Partygate", this has been a bit under the radar:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/rishi-sunak-uk-government-treasury-writes-off-43bn-covid-payments-stolen-fraudsters-000107381.html

Would have been a bit different if it was benefit claims.

 

 

[whelk]

1 minute ago, ecuk268 said:

With all the noise about "Partygate", this has been a bit under the radar:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/rishi-sunak-uk-government-treasury-writes-off-43bn-covid-payments-stolen-fraudsters-000107381.html

Would have been a bit different if it was benefit claims.

 

 

Entrepreneurial innit

 

I did post about it somewhere yesterday but yeah imagine the Mail if that happened on Starmer’s watch

Edited 19 January, 2022 by whelk

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not that I think it will happen, but imagine the meltdown on here, twitter and BBC/Sky/Guardian/Mirror, if the PM is found to be clean over these incidents.

Remember how upset they were when the government report into racism found the UK wasn't institutionally racist. 

[whelk]

20 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not that I think it will happen, but imagine the meltdown on here, twitter and BBC/Sky/Guardian/Mirror, if the PM is found to be clean over these incidents.

Don’t worry you will always have Starmer’s beer

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not that I think it will happen, but imagine the meltdown on here, twitter and BBC/Sky/Guardian/Mirror, if the PM is found to be clean over these incidents.

He will not be 'found clean', because he is most certainly not, but he will in all likelihood not be found 'guilty' - Sue Gray doesn't have the remit to do so.

Edited 19 January, 2022 by badgerx16

[egg]

1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

Ultimately I think Boris will only go if someone relatively credible sticks their head up and makes it clear they're interested in the job.  I doubt they'll get to the number of letters needed to trigger a vote of no confidence without it, but if they did then I still think he'd pass unless it was clear that there was a decent alternative.  

I'm not sure it'll even take a big hitter to undermine him publicly to make him go. It'll only take a few behind closed doors I reckon. The Rishi interview for ITV yesterday was interesting - he ignored the question of whether he supported the PM and walked away. Its only a matter of time I think. 

[Tamesaint]

The bloke just can't stop lying.

He doesn't "recognise" David Davis's comment "in the name of God, go." Hmmm. You would have thought a biographer of Churchill would have recognised the attack on Chamberlain which led to Churchill coming to power. 

 

[Turkish]

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

I never realised that Johnson was handing out all that money himself. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Now I'm only moaning about Christmas, because after reading that, surely it's time to punt Little Baby Jesus and replace him with Boris the Saviour.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Now I'm only moaning about Christmas, because after reading that, surely it's time to punt Little Baby Jesus and replace him with Boris the Saviour.

He may not be the best prime minister we’ve ever had but you just be grateful you’re still here to know that 

[Whitey Grandad]

13 minutes ago, Turkish said:

He may not be the best prime minister we’ve ever had but you just be grateful you’re still here to know that 

Still being here has nothing to do with Johnson.

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Still being here has nothing to do with Johnson.

Is your vaccine working for you?

[Turkish]

All hail Boris. all hail Brexit 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

No wonder he looks tired in that second pic: vaccine designer and distributor; zillionaire philanthropist to the needy and excellent host at numerous parties. Wattaguy.

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

No wonder he looks tired in that second pic: vaccine designer and distributor; zillionaire philanthropist to the needy and excellent host at numerous parties. Wattaguy.

Especially considering he did all that shortly after nearly dying not long ago 

[rallyboy]

Indeed, he's a national hero who always puts us first and he deserves a statue - I believe there's a local guy who would be good for that, and Bristol would be a great place to put it.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

The authenticity of the Turin Shroud is in doubt, but the Holy Bedsheet of Saviour Boris will be a relic when he replaces Little Baby Jesus in our hearts.