Ralph Hasenhuttl

[wadesmith]

6 hours ago, nta786 said:

MLG will eat you alive with that

"Pay as you manage deals are non existent.... why would a manager agree to that"

 

I have no idea what MLG is....but bring it on!

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, wadesmith said:

I have no idea what MLG is....but bring it on!

[captainchris]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Yep. It is a 442. Sure, 2 of the midfield 4 often tuck in and push up but whatever the hipsters like to call it, we mostly play a 442. 

Mostly it’s a 2 2 6 in actual fact….

 

[Mr X]

We should be straight on the phone to pochetino! He failed at psg as they had a team of veterans that couldn't keep up pace with his style and they would not get rid of them, he would do wonders with a young team here!  Proven premier league experience with us and spurs 

[Miltonaggro]

47 minutes ago, Mr X said:

We should be straight on the phone to pochetino! He failed at psg as they had a team of veterans that couldn't keep up pace with his style and they would not get rid of them, he would do wonders with a young team here!  Proven premier league experience with us and spurs 

Think that if MP fancies a return to the Prem he will wait for one of the big sides to have a slow start to the season and sack the incumbent.  I agree that he would likely do great things coaching our young side but he's fishing in a different pond now.

[Mr X]

2 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

Think that if MP fancies a return to the Prem he will wait for one of the big sides to have a slow start to the season and sack the incumbent.  I agree that he would likely do great things coaching our young side but he's fishing in a different pond now.

Yes he probably has ambition to go to a top six once more but right now his reputation isn't what it was due to one failure, he needs to show he still has it at a club like ours, that said yes ultimately we'd be a stepping stone but we are always a stepping stone for both managers & players that's how it works unfortunately, and I'd rather have a couple of years success than not 

[Dellman]

3 hours ago, Mr X said:

Yes he probably has ambition to go to a top six once more but right now his reputation is. Can't wait for kick off!n't what it was due to one failure, he needs to show he still has it at a club like ours, that said yes ultimately we'd be a stepping stone but we are always a stepping stone for both managers & players that's how it works unfortunately, and I'd rather have a couple of years success than not 

Yes, I've got used to being a stepping stone. At first I hated it and resented everyone who left but now  I understand it is our way of surviving in the most competitive and most  expensive league in the world. Really it's an amazing achievement by Board, Manager and players. Now I have a feeling that greater stability, greater vision is going to improve things further. Can't wait for kick off!

[Miltonaggro]

6 hours ago, Mr X said:

Yes he probably has ambition to go to a top six once more but right now his reputation isn't what it was due to one failure, he needs to show he still has it at a club like ours, that said yes ultimately we'd be a stepping stone but we are always a stepping stone for both managers & players that's how it works unfortunately, and I'd rather have a couple of years success than not 

Would be genuinely delighted if you are proved right Mr X

[AlexLaw76]

Be interesting to see how long he lasts?  I cannot see it being beyond xmas (meaning he has the start of the world cup to sort himself out).

The tail-end of last season was just ridiculous, and he always had the get-out-of-jail card that we have been skint/poor squad.

Well, he has been backed more than most/all managers in our recent history, with more incoming and for good money.

Watching us line up with the exact same dull/ponderous football (3 at the back ffs) during pre-season, I just cannot see how he can last, noting our challenging start.  It is worrying how to continues to completely fail to get anything out of A.Armstrong (and Adams on a lesser extent) as goal scorers. 

However, we now have owners with a little bit of clout and the reasoning of not moving Ralph on for finances no longer washes.

Of course, hope to be hilariously wrong with the above - not sure I will be.

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Be interesting to see how long he lasts?  I cannot see it being beyond xmas (meaning he has the start of the world cup to sort himself out).

The tail-end of last season was just ridiculous, and he always had the get-out-of-jail card that we have been skint/poor squad.

Well, he has been backed more than most/all managers in our recent history, with more incoming and for good money.

Watching us line up with the exact same dull/ponderous football (3 at the back ffs) during pre-season, I just cannot see how he can last, noting our challenging start.  It is worrying how to continues to completely fail to get anything out of A.Armstrong (and Adams on a lesser extent) as goal scorers. 

However, we now have owners with a little bit of clout and the reasoning of not moving Ralph on for finances no longer washes.

Of course, hope to be hilariously wrong with the above - not sure I will be.

You made the ''3 at the back FFS'' point on another thread, and The Cat countered your argument with several good points as to why 3 at the back is being used as an option at the moment. What would your alternative be, if we don't actually have a new full back in place for the start? It is a bit ridiculous that our two full backs we bought last season are both injured, not the fault of anyone though.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

You made the ''3 at the back FFS'' point on another thread, and The Cat countered your argument with several good points as to why 3 at the back is being used as an option at the moment. What would your alternative be, if we don't actually have a new full back in place for the start? It is a bit ridiculous that our two full backs we bought last season are both injured, not the fault of anyone though.

what is your view on the success of Ralph this season, beyond the starting formation?

[S-Clarke]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

what is your view on the success of Ralph this season, beyond the starting formation?

As long as we get the attacking players in we need, he'll have no excuses. As you did say he is in line to be backed more than any other manager in recent years.

I've always stood by my view that we need to back him and allow him to bring in players who suit the style he wants to play, so let's see how we go. I think we're still massively let down by the lack of quality in the attack, but I like the options we have to play with at the back and in CM now - the sort of players who are right up his street in the style of play. But the attacking signings will make or break our season, as it doesn't really matter what tactics he plays if we have crap up top.

I'm expecting some improvement this season once we've got all our targets in, but I'm not expecting a total 360 and us becoming top 6 challenges. This team will evolve over a couple of seasons and then we'll see where we sit. 

[Puddings and Monkeys]

39 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Be interesting to see how long he lasts?  I cannot see it being beyond xmas (meaning he has the start of the world cup to sort himself out).

The tail-end of last season was just ridiculous, and he always had the get-out-of-jail card that we have been skint/poor squad.

Well, he has been backed more than most/all managers in our recent history, with more incoming and for good money.

Watching us line up with the exact same dull/ponderous football (3 at the back ffs) during pre-season, I just cannot see how he can last, noting our challenging start.  It is worrying how to continues to completely fail to get anything out of A.Armstrong (and Adams on a lesser extent) as goal scorers. 

However, we now have owners with a little bit of clout and the reasoning of not moving Ralph on for finances no longer washes.

Of course, hope to be hilariously wrong with the above - not sure I will be.

Ah, the old “hope to be proved wrong” escape route…….well played sir!

[ErwinK1961]

46 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

what is your view on the success of Ralph this season, beyond the starting formation?

You’re better at dodging questions than MLG.

Edited 24 July, 2022 by ErwinK1961

[FarehamSaintJames]

I agree with Clarky above.

Although this season is massively make or break for him. I think if we’re bottom six come November he will be gone. The hand we’ve been dealt in terms of the first eight games of the season will make it harder for him.

Ralph also being less stubborn with formations would be helpful. An extra man in midfield we were crying out for at the end of last season. Two players isolated up top doesn’t work.

Attacking wide I’m confident we can always make chances. Defensively we’ve been woeful and some of these goals we’ve conceded the last couple of seasons have been embarrassing!

I think a different manager will get more out of this squad in time than RH will.

 

[saintant]

26 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

As long as we get the attacking players in we need, he'll have no excuses. As you did say he is in line to be backed more than any other manager in recent years.

I've always stood by my view that we need to back him and allow him to bring in players who suit the style he wants to play, so let's see how we go. I think we're still massively let down by the lack of quality in the attack, but I like the options we have to play with at the back and in CM now - the sort of players who are right up his street in the style of play. But the attacking signings will make or break our season, as it doesn't really matter what tactics he plays if we have crap up top.

I'm expecting some improvement this season once we've got all our targets in, but I'm not expecting a total 360 and us becoming top 6 challenges. This team will evolve over a couple of seasons and then we'll see where we sit. 

You make some valid points but, if you feel that the midfield is sorted now and we just need forwards, why are we not creating chances? How will new forwards solve the fact that we don't create chances? The lack of chances is surely the problem that needs to be sorted first. You can't judge how good or bad your forwards are if you aren't providing them with chances.

Edited 24 July, 2022 by saintant

[Daft Kerplunk]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

You make some valid points but, if you feel that the midfield is sorted now and we just need forwards, why are we not creating chances? How will new forwards solve the fact that we don't create chances? The lack of chances is surely the problem that needs to be sorted first. You can't judge how good or bad your forwards are if you aren't providing with chances.

Agreed. We had the two most glaring problems for a football team bar some purple patches of form. Conceded easily, couldn’t create and score. If we get another attacker in and this is the team Ralph wants, then he’ll have to go if they aren’t performing by November. I like the look of most of the signings so it’s promising but if it doesn’t work, then it’ll be clear it’s the manager who can’t get a tune out of his orchestra. 

[coalman]

There's a decent chance Ralph will have the team he wants for the first time this season if we can do the rest of the business we're rumoured to be looking at. I've seen him perform minor miracles with a squad he most probably didn't want over the last few years so I'm excited to see what he can do. 

[S-Clarke]

11 minutes ago, saintant said:

You make some valid points but, if you feel that the midfield is sorted now and we just need forwards, why are we not creating chances? How will new forwards solve the fact that we don't create chances? The lack of chances is surely the problem that needs to be sorted first. You can't judge how good or bad your forwards are if you aren't providing them with chances.

I don't disagree, with 'forwards' I was including the attack in that. I think we'll get another wide number 10 type and another striker before the window is done.

As we saw with Broja though, it's not all down to the players creating behind him (although that is desperately needed), but the strikers need to have a bit more about them in order to make their own movement, create their own opportunities. Outside of Adams we have zilch. And Adams...who let's face it...provides physicality and is our best option, he is still very average as a finisher. I can see Mara, a number 9 type, another AM and a RB cover (that aligns with a few ITK posts), although we will probably need to ship out one of Elyounoussi, Redmond or Moussa for that additional AM.

[Daft Kerplunk]

5 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't disagree, with 'forwards' I was including the attack in that. I think we'll get another wide number 10 type and another striker before the window is done.

As we saw with Broja though, it's not all down to the players creating behind him (although that is desperately needed), but the strikers need to have a bit more about them in order to make their own movement, create their own opportunities. Outside of Adams we have zilch. And Adams...who let's face it...provides physicality and is our best option, he is still very average as a finisher. I can see Mara, a number 9 type, another AM and a RB cover (that aligns with a few ITK posts), although we will probably need to ship out one of Elyounoussi, Redmond or Moussa for that additional AM.

Ings was a player who could create out of nothing and this helped us big time. Apparently he used to get frustrated at the tactics/ability of teammates to get the ball forward in time for the forwards to take advantage. This problem continued without him. 

[saintant]

14 minutes ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

Ings was a player who could create out of nothing and this helped us big time. Apparently he used to get frustrated at the tactics/ability of teammates to get the ball forward in time for the forwards to take advantage. This problem continued without him. 

Agree. What possibly many of us are baffled by is the fact that when we press and turn over the ball high up the pitch and flood forward to take advantage of the turn over we look a great attacking side that creates chances. I get that can leave us exposed at the back and Ralph has scar tissue from the two nine nils but I'd prefer to see us going more gung-ho. Traditionally we've always been a side that scores plenty of goals and lets in a lot. I'd prefer that to the turgid stuff we now serve up which still seems to end up in defeat more often than not. If we are going to hang around the bottom six lets at least show some balls and give our opponents something to worry about. I fear that Ralph is so tied up with stopping the goals going in our net we'll just be a boring side that loses most games by the odd goal and never seems to get back into a game after conceding first. Let's be bolder than that because, let's face it, we're never going to be a side that keeps it tight at the back for more than the odd game.

Edited 24 July, 2022 by saintant

[S-Clarke]

11 minutes ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

Ings was a player who could create out of nothing and this helped us big time. Apparently he used to get frustrated at the tactics/ability of teammates to get the ball forward in time for the forwards to take advantage. This problem continued without him. 

Probably the same with Broja, he was another who was able to create something out of nothing through his pace/power, he often looked frustrated as he made runs with no one able to find him. 

Aribo looks decent, he seems to be a clever player in that '10' role who can drift around. He's so much more physical than I thought he was, which should offer us something in those areas we didn't have last year. I'd like us to give up on the Moussa/Ely/Redmond/Theo experiments though and go all out for someone like Karlson.

[FarehamSaintJames]

As long as players like Djenepo and Valery are about he’ll continue to mess around with poor formation choices and try and shoehorn them into the team.

When we all know quite frankly they aren’t good enough.

I hope the club are working hard to clear the dead wood behind the scenes!

[Convict Colony]

Think Tadic was the last truly creative player we had who started most games, we need an assist machine in his mould from somewhere.

Someone who can see a run, pass instantly rather than moving the ball around looking for an overload.

Looking at the eredevsie tadic is still bossing it, but Karlson defo has something about him

 

Edited 24 July, 2022 by Convict Colony

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

5 hours ago, coalman said:

There's a decent chance Ralph will have the team he wants for the first time this season if we can do the rest of the business we're rumoured to be looking at. I've seen him perform minor miracles with a squad he most probably didn't want over the last few years so I'm excited to see what he can do. 

What a garbage take. Djenepo, Adams, KWP, Diallo, Salisu, Walcott, Perraud, Livramento, Lyanco, A.Armstrong - all brought in under Ralph, all regular squad players. Even ones he inherited such as JWP, Romeu and S.Armstrong have been some of his better performers. To think that the addition of a few youngsters will be what tips it into being his team is a joke. It's been his for a while now and has been on a noticeable downward curve the past couple of seasons to the point where last season was only marginally better than our season with Pellegrino/Hughes (whose points return that season also would have kept us up every season since, worth remembering when saying Ralph is the only one who could have kept us up).

[coalman]

10 minutes ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

What a garbage take. Djenepo, Adams, KWP, Diallo, Salisu, Walcott, Perraud, Livramento, Lyanco, A.Armstrong - all brought in under Ralph, all regular squad players. Even ones he inherited such as JWP, Romeu and S.Armstrong have been some of his better performers. To think that the addition of a few youngsters will be what tips it into being his team is a joke. It's been his for a while now and has been on a noticeable downward curve the past couple of seasons to the point where last season was only marginally better than our season with Pellegrino/Hughes (whose points return that season also would have kept us up every season since, worth remembering when saying Ralph is the only one who could have kept us up).

Let me highlight where I disagree with you:

- At no point did I say Ralph was the only one who could have kept us up. When discussing something with someone it is generally held to be polite to argue with what they said rather than what you imagined they said.

- There have been times over the last few years where we've played some lovely football. I couldn't say the same for our football under Pellegrino or Hughes. We've also been incredibly inconsistent which is indeed frustrating.

- The club has not invested to the level it is doing currently for several years (if ever). My point is that this is the first window where the club has really backed Ralph. It's my view that this gives him the opportunity to really show what he's capable of. If that is more of the exciting football I've seen and less of the less exciting football then I'm excited to see it.

Of course, it's just my opinion. I could be wrong. I'm sorry that reading a differing opinion on an internet forum bothers you so much.

As I said, I'm excited to see what we do this season. As I am every season with Southampton. This season I am more so than I've been in a while.

[Lighthouse]

47 minutes ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

What a garbage take. Djenepo, Adams, KWP, Diallo, Salisu, Walcott, Perraud, Livramento, Lyanco, A.Armstrong - all brought in under Ralph, all regular squad players. Even ones he inherited such as JWP, Romeu and S.Armstrong have been some of his better performers. To think that the addition of a few youngsters will be what tips it into being his team is a joke. It's been his for a while now and has been on a noticeable downward curve the past couple of seasons to the point where last season was only marginally better than our season with Pellegrino/Hughes (whose points return that season also would have kept us up every season since, worth remembering when saying Ralph is the only one who could have kept us up).

Out of interest, why do you think Ralph insisted on Armstrong, Lyanco and Djenepo, out of all the footballers in the world?

[Toussaint]

6 hours ago, Puddings and Monkeys said:

Ah, the old “hope to be proved wrong” escape route…….well played sir!

I think hoping to be “proved wrong” is an entirely reasonable position, one that I take myself. I believe it is a massive mistake to continue with Ralph, but the last thing I want is to be proved right in my belief at the expense  the team’s failure.

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

34 minutes ago, coalman said:

Let me highlight where I disagree with you:

- At no point did I say Ralph was the only one who could have kept us up. When discussing something with someone it is generally held to be polite to argue with what they said rather than what you imagined they said.

- There have been times over the last few years where we've played some lovely football. I couldn't say the same for our football under Pellegrino or Hughes. We've also been incredibly inconsistent which is indeed frustrating.

- The club has not invested to the level it is doing currently for several years (if ever). My point is that this is the first window where the club has really backed Ralph. It's my view that this gives him the opportunity to really show what he's capable of. If that is more of the exciting football I've seen and less of the less exciting football then I'm excited to see it.

Of course, it's just my opinion. I could be wrong. I'm sorry that reading a differing opinion on an internet forum bothers you so much.

As I said, I'm excited to see what we do this season. As I am every season with Southampton. This season I am more so than I've been in a while.

To your points...

Apologies on the first one, not a comment you have made but one I see often parroted around here and being as I only get 3 posts a day I wanted to highlight it at the same time. Also apologies for the tone of the reply but I have seen the same comments about 'not his team' for years now and have never seen any other manager given the same consideration and so it does tend to annoy me especially when you can see how many players we have brought in for him.

To the second point, I agree completely and assume that is the reason Ralph has been given so much time and extra chances despite some abysmal runs of form over the past couple of seasons. If we can get consistency we could improve greatly but i have not seen anything from Ralph yet to suggest he can provide it. maybe the new coaching staff can help with this.

To your third point, the point I was making was that in the past 3 and a half years with us Ralph has been able to bring in a number of players to make this his team. The fact that we may be spending a bit more this year does not invalidate any of that - those players brought in are Ralph players and we haven't seen much improvement with them, he has been backed but it has been over a longer period rather than over one or two windows. Of course i'm sure he'd like a better quality of player but you have to have realistic expectations for a club our size - i'm sure given the choice, a bunch of academy products from other teams isn't his preferred choices either this window if he could have anyone he wanted.

I'm glad people can have different opinions and in fact the forum is generally better for them. I just find with a lot of opinions that the facts aren't there to back them up and in fact actually prove the opposite (doesn't apply to your post necessarily but I was able to point out that we did already bring in a considerable number of players for him over the years and so it's not only this window that would make it 'his' team).

18 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Out of interest, why do you think Ralph insisted on Armstrong, Lyanco and Djenepo, out of all the footballers in the world?

I don't know if he did, maybe it was all down to the scouting team or budgetary reasons, perhaps all of our successful signings had no input from Ralph either. Maybe you could explain the point you are trying to make better? Should our signings not be considered to be at least partly down to Ralph? If not then how could it ever be 'his' team? Are we only to consider them a Ralph signing if they turn out to be successful or if we spend a lot of money on them?

My point was simple - while he has been manager we have already brought in a number of players who if not a part of the starting line-up have been a consistent part of the squad and are therefore part of his team. If people disagree and want to explain why the likes of KWP, Salisu, Livramento or Adams are not a part of 'his' team i'd be interested to see why.

[coalman]

27 minutes ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

I'm glad people can have different opinions and in fact the forum is generally better for them. I just find with a lot of opinions that the facts aren't there to back them up and in fact actually prove the opposite (doesn't apply to your post necessarily but I was able to point out that we did already bring in a considerable number of players for him over the years and so it's not only this window that would make it 'his' team).

I don't know if he did, maybe it was all down to the scouting team or budgetary reasons, perhaps all of our successful signings had no input from Ralph either. Maybe you could explain the point you are trying to make better? Should our signings not be considered to be at least partly down to Ralph? If not then how could it ever be 'his' team? Are we only to consider them a Ralph signing if they turn out to be successful or if we spend a lot of money on them?

My point was simple - while he has been manager we have already brought in a number of players who if not a part of the starting line-up have been a consistent part of the squad and are therefore part of his team. If people disagree and want to explain why the likes of KWP, Salisu, Livramento or Adams are not a part of 'his' team i'd be interested to see why.

Fair play. Thanks for the considered response.

The way I'd look at is part of the team is 'his' but he's spent a large part of his time in charge here hindered by the decisions of his predecessors and the need to address that within limited constraints.

He inherited Lemina, Hoedt, Forster, McCarthy, Redmond, Hojberg, Clasie, Soares, Carillo, Bednarek, Vestergaard, Elyounoussi, Ings, Bertrand, JWP for example. Ings, JWP, Bednarek and Redmond, Bertrand have succeeded to various degrees. Though the latter three of those has also attracted their share of opprobrium.

Prior to this window Ralph has bought in some players who haven't worked and some how have - like Danso, Djenepo, Adams, Armstrong, Diallo, KWP, Salisu, Perraud, Livramento, Lyanco, Caballero, Walcott, Broja. Of those many were signed at the end of the window when our first choices weren't available or willing to join us. Among them are some great finds like KWP, Salisu, Livramento. Some arguably good players like Adams, Perraud. And some players who have struggled like Armstrong and Djenepo. But I'd say that in many respects his hand was forced by circumstances. I'm pretty sure players like Caballero or Walcott were brought in because it was the only way he could fill a gap. I remember last summer how upset we were not to be able to target a new 'keeper.

This window we've bought in some really exciting players. Bazunu looks like the 'keeper we've been dreaming about since forever. Bella-Kotchap looks like a beast. Lavia already looks decent but will only get better. Aribo looks like he can make the step from Scottish football and Mara has tons of potential. Compare this to other windows and already it's another world. If rumours are correct there are more on the way. So comparatively speaking this looks like far more of "his" team than what he's had before.

Yes we're still constrained because we have to gamble more on potential and that may or may not work. But, I'd argue that rather than working with what he's got or can scrounge - Ralph is in a position where he has more of the team he wants than at any point in his Saints career.

It's fair to argue whether this is "his" team. Though I'd say it's more "his" team than at any point before. We're also in a position where we can attract more of those players with potential which we weren't necessarily before. I'd say that getting from the first list to a position where we are both in the Premier League and also to attract exciting players is a pretty incredible transformation. That's not to say Ralph's the man to take the next step for us. Even if he's not he's set up his successor in a way he wasn't himself.

* for the sake of the forum pedants, neither list is exhaustive

[Lighthouse]

52 minutes ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

I don't know if he did, maybe it was all down to the scouting team or budgetary reasons, perhaps all of our successful signings had no input from Ralph either. Maybe you could explain the point you are trying to make better? Should our signings not be considered to be at least partly down to Ralph? If not then how could it ever be 'his' team? Are we only to consider them a Ralph signing if they turn out to be successful or if we spend a lot of money on them?

My point was simple - while he has been manager we have already brought in a number of players who if not a part of the starting line-up have been a consistent part of the squad and are therefore part of his team. If people disagree and want to explain why the likes of KWP, Salisu, Livramento or Adams are not a part of 'his' team i'd be interested to see why.

My point is basically that there’s no such thing as ‘his team’ only players we can afford with our extremely limited (by PL standards) budget.

Ralph supposedly chose those players whilst Pep was choosing Haaland, Grealish and Mahrez. Do you think that’s simply because Ralph doesn’t know which of those is better?

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

16 minutes ago, coalman said:

Fair play. Thanks for the considered response.

The way I'd look at is part of the team is 'his' but he's spent a large part of his time in charge here hindered by the decisions of his predecessors and the need to address that within limited constraints.

(as a response to your whole comment so I don't have to quote it all  ) Fair enough, thanks for explaining your reasoning as gives me a better idea where you're coming from and I can see why you're thinking that way. I still think that if we are applying that way of thinking to things then you can say the likes of Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes were never given the time to create 'their' teams either and they're looked back on a lot less fondly than Ralph is treated currently, though I understand the inconsistency plays in to that - Puel was consistently boring (if effective), Pellegrino and Hughes were consistently poor where as Ralph swings between brilliant and abysmal within a single season.

I'm also not convinced that the current window will lead to it being any more 'his' team or his type of player (though to be honest I don't know what a 'Ralph' style player is even meant to be except for that they can press). I'm sure if we start the season badly you'll soon see comments that the focus on youngsters is a Sports Republic led thing and Ralph should have been allowed to be spend the money on more experienced players or players 'he' wanted. Proof will be in the pudding I guess. Hopefully the new signings are hits and we have a good season which is what we all really want.

21 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

My point is basically that there’s no such thing as ‘his team’ only players we can afford with our extremely limited (by PL standards) budget.

Ralph supposedly chose those players whilst Pep was choosing Haaland, Grealish and Mahrez. Do you think that’s simply because Ralph doesn’t know which of those is better?

Fair enough and I completely agree that it could never really be considered 'his' team as there are plenty of other factors that determine which players we bring in not least being that we have a whole scouting team whose job it is to identify these players in the first place. Maybe the next time someone makes a comment saying it's not 'his' team yet then you can point out to them that the idea is foolish so i don't have to waste a post .

[Saint Billy]

Are these young players being brought in primarily to strengthen the side or to increase their value to sell on in a year or two for a good profit?. 

I suspect the answer is both. 

Not sure if this is a good combo when trying to rebuild a side and create stability. 

[S-Clarke]

6 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

Are these young players being brought in primarily to strengthen the side or to increase their value to sell on in a year or two for a good profit?. 

I suspect the answer is both. 

Not sure if this is a good combo when trying to rebuild a side and create stability. 

Martin confirmed our club mantra last year, it's not amazing as like you say we'll never create stability or long-term success with the same group. But I've come to accept it to be honest. If we get to see some superstar young players and enjoy those for a year or 2 then that's better than having to limp along with rubbish.

Martin Semmens said ''For us, it's not about points or where we finish, it's about how we develop players and provide them the platform''. Obviously staying in the PL is key to that and I think we'll always be competitive enough to achieve that (I hope), but I don't see us developing a WHU/Leicester type team that stays together for a few years and has consistent finishes in the league. It doesn't seem as if that's the priority for the club.

[Piran]

Well done to Coalman and Diabolus Ex Machina for having a reasoned debate, and for keeping it civil. Plus Lighthouse for his contributions and 'umpiring'.

I understand the various points made by all those arguing the plus and minus qualities of Ralph, even those of you who are totally wrong! My question, though, is this: Which team or club in the Prem at the moment, or recently, is seen as being managed "perfectly"? Is there anyone else who has never bought a bad player? Or overpaid? Or given a wrong or overlong contract?

Who do we really wish we were?

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Martin confirmed our club mantra last year, it's not amazing as like you say we'll never create stability or long-term success with the same group. But I've come to accept it to be honest. If we get to see some superstar young players and enjoy those for a year or 2 then that's better than having to limp along with rubbish.

I don't think the model is inherently unstable. We might sell a couple of players each summer but we can still keep the core group together

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Saint Billy said:

Are these young players being brought in primarily to strengthen the side or to increase their value to sell on in a year or two for a good profit?. 

I suspect the answer is both. 

Not sure if this is a good combo when trying to rebuild a side and create stability. 

I guess the Idea if if they strengthen the side then they increase value and we sell for a large profit. It’s the right thing for a club of our size to do but we’re pretty unashamed about it. Buy, develop sell for profit go again, any on field success we might have is a byproduct of that. 

[HarvSFC]

26 minutes ago, Piran said:

Well done to Coalman and Diabolus Ex Machina for having a reasoned debate, and for keeping it civil. Plus Lighthouse for his contributions and 'umpiring'.

I understand the various points made by all those arguing the plus and minus qualities of Ralph, even those of you who are totally wrong! My question, though, is this: Which team or club in the Prem at the moment, or recently, is seen as being managed "perfectly"? Is there anyone else who has never bought a bad player? Or overpaid? Or given a wrong or overlong contract?

Who do we really wish we were?

Not a Premier League side, but the model we're following looks to be very similar to the one Borussia Dortmund have been doing for a number of years now. They do sign dud youngsters themselves, but their focus on young players has seen them pick up Jadon Sancho and Erling Haaland in recent years, selling them on for profit, while Jude Bellingham will also follow in a year, or two. Sancho being £8m with no first team experience, Haaland for £20m after hitting 16 in 14 in Austria and then Bellingham was £25m after Birmingham retired his shirt number. All would've been affordable for us this summer. Dortmund have also never been able to keep hold of their best players, be it them going to Bayern Munich, or the Premier League, but they've consistently been in the top five of the Bundesliga since 2009.

Now, of course the Premier League is a more competitive league and Dortmund are much bigger as a club, but when the next Sancho does come through and is wanting a move for first team football, you'd hope with us being closer to home and in the Premier League, they may decide to come here instead. It is a huge gamble, and nobody's saying it isn't. Nobody knows what's to come for this season from us, but the rewards could certainly be exciting and I'm happy that we're trying something new after getting it so wrong in the last five years. We could've just remade the same mistakes, like we've seen a number of clubs, including Southampton do over the last few years.

 

[warwicksaint]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

I guess the Idea if if they strengthen the side then they increase value and we sell for a large profit. It’s the right thing for a club of our size to do but we’re pretty unashamed about it. Buy, develop sell for profit go again, any on field success we might have is a byproduct of that. 

If we ever want to advance from being merely a youth player stepping stone to being a competitive top 10/pushing for top 7/8 side some seasons, then we need to sell the young players we’ve got for hefty profit and invest into BOTH young players and more experienced pro’s. If we carry on selling young lads every 2 or 3 seasons we’ll just go round in circles. We also need to buy those 24/25/26 year olds who will take us to a different level, whilst still integrating young players where we can

[AlexLaw76]

Apparently, Romeu is not so suited as the 'lonely 6' in the team, but is better further forward and knows how to score

 

😏

[Turkish]

47 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Apparently, Romeu is not so suited as the 'lonely 6' in the team, but is better further forward and knows how to score

 

😏

with 10 goals in nearly 400 appearances. 

[DT]

He is worryingly clueless

[beatlesaint]

3 minutes ago, DT said:

He is worryingly clueless

He must be coming out with this shite for a bet mustn’t he?

[SaintsLoyal]

Lets hope he steps over the white line this season sooner than later.

[once_bitterne]

I mean if RH can't win PL football games now that the new owners have generously given him a bunch of totally unproven youth team teenagers (to complement the stellar talent we already have in Stephens, Bednarek, Diallo, Elywotsit, Djenepo and Alan Armstrong) then the bloke should be sacked off asap.

[danjosaint]

He should of been let go at the end of last season for a fresh start for both club and himself 

[trousers]

2 hours ago, danjosaint said:

He should of been let go at the end of last season for a fresh start for both club and himself 

*have

[Toussaint]

7 minutes ago, trousers said:

*have

Glad you agree!

[FarehamSaintJames]

As I’ve just said in another post, this’ll be the one summer where he is backed in the transfer market and he’ll still screw it up by playing a formation that doesn’t work for the team or players at his disposal.

He’ll be the master of his own downfall. 😅

[DT]

I'm just wondering if there are any good managers we could nab from Man City's academy