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I can say with absolute confidence that the people who refuse to get vaccinated and are responsible for this issue will be the ones who protest loudest. I still think if they turn up to A&E gasping for air, we should ‘defer’ their treatment until after we’ve caught up with all outpatient care and the staff have had a decent holiday.

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28 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I can say with absolute confidence that the people who refuse to get vaccinated and are responsible for this issue will be the ones who protest loudest. I still think if they turn up to A&E gasping for air, we should ‘defer’ their treatment until after we’ve caught up with all outpatient care and the staff have had a decent holiday.

Yet, despite all those selfish people who have refused to have their vaccinations, more curbs will be imposed on those that have had them if / when the hospitals start to fill up. 

Maybe there is one situation where a covid passport would be warrented ;) 

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2 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Boosters were always likely. It was often said that we’ll likely never beat COVID but that it will be minimised like we do with flu and an annual injection.

Of course the goalposts are constantly moving. It’s an ever changing and adapting virus.

The 'flu jab is updated on an annual basis to combat the most prevalent strain of influenza that year.

I haven't seen any information that the COVID 'booster' has been updated and it would appear that they will be using the original vaccine that was created.  The same vaccine that supposedly offered 90 - 95% protection after 2 doses (compared with 40-60% for 'flu).

What makes more sense in this scenario, offering the 'booster' to a population that already has around 95% protection anyway so will potentially see only a very slight marginal gain of a couple of percentage points, or donating the vaccines we have agreed to pay for to a country that cannot afford their own, thus offering them around 70% protection (one dose), to limit the chances of the virus spreading and mutating to something more nasty?

Booster jabs would be more effective next year once the most prevalent strain has been identified and the vaccine tailored towards that.

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9 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The 'flu jab is updated on an annual basis to combat the most prevalent strain of influenza that year.

I haven't seen any information that the COVID 'booster' has been updated and it would appear that they will be using the original vaccine that was created.  The same vaccine that supposedly offered 90 - 95% protection after 2 doses (compared with 40-60% for 'flu).

What makes more sense in this scenario, offering the 'booster' to a population that already has around 95% protection anyway so will potentially see only a very slight marginal gain of a couple of percentage points, or donating the vaccines we have agreed to pay for to a country that cannot afford their own, thus offering them around 70% protection (one dose), to limit the chances of the virus spreading and mutating to something more nasty?

Booster jabs would be more effective next year once the most prevalent strain has been identified and the vaccine tailored towards that.

Actually it's quite interesting that the data about waning immunity is coming from Israel.  They're having an uptick in cases and hospitalisations but this coincided with lifting restrictions and the delta variant (which they got late) so even though more double jabbed are getting admitted it's not necessarily due to immunity wearing off (just more cases and the jab not being 100% effective).  They also test everyone who gets admitted for whatever reason so many of the people in hospital get included in the hospitalisation figures despite not going in for covid related illness.  Important to note that they exclusively used pfizer - there is data to suggest the level of antibodies declines but that doesn't always translate to immunity declining.  The data on Astra-Zeneca is much less clear cut.  They also vaccinated quicker than we did and with a smaller gap between jabs.  I think it's right to be concerned but we're a long way off it being a problem right now.

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1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

Actually it's quite interesting that the data about waning immunity is coming from Israel.  They're having an uptick in cases and hospitalisations but this coincided with lifting restrictions and the delta variant (which they got late) so even though more double jabbed are getting admitted it's not necessarily due to immunity wearing off (just more cases and the jab not being 100% effective).  They also test everyone who gets admitted for whatever reason so many of the people in hospital get included in the hospitalisation figures despite not going in for covid related illness.  Important to note that they exclusively used pfizer - there is data to suggest the level of antibodies declines but that doesn't always translate to immunity declining.  The data on Astra-Zeneca is much less clear cut.  They also vaccinated quicker than we did and with a smaller gap between jabs.  I think it's right to be concerned but we're a long way off it being a problem right now.

Anecdotally, people I know who were double vaccinated and got covid shortly after were all OK describing the effects of the jab as worse than the virus. I know a couple of people who have had it more recently but had their jabs a while ago, who have been very poorly. Don't get me wrong, this could be down to the individuals, but I'll take an extra shot if its offered. 

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1 minute ago, egg said:

Anecdotally, people I know who were double vaccinated and got covid shortly after were all OK describing the effects of the jab as worse than the virus. I know a couple of people who have had it more recently but had their jabs a while ago, who have been very poorly. Don't get me wrong, this could be down to the individuals, but I'll take an extra shot if its offered. 

Yes, I'd be getting a booster if offered (still too damn young though).  My sisters in-laws both just recently had covid - both over 80, both in what would be classed as a vulnerable group and didn't really get many symptoms at all.  I'd be fascinated to eventually see why some people are affected worse than others - worst affected person I knew was under 40, very active, very fit and probably the least likely to suffer.  Anyway, I don't mind booster shots being rolled out and it will probably save some lives  - I don't think there's a really clear case for it but nothing in the pandemic has been that clear and easy to predict.

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42 minutes ago, egg said:

Anecdotally, people I know who were double vaccinated and got covid shortly after were all OK describing the effects of the jab as worse than the virus. I know a couple of people who have had it more recently but had their jabs a while ago, who have been very poorly. Don't get me wrong, this could be down to the individuals, but I'll take an extra shot if its offered. 

I got covid 3 months after being vaccinated. I had no side effects from the vaccines (AZ), Covid for me was like a heavy cold. Wife had a minor side effects, light cold and tiredness, she also got covid and was same as me. My brother, sister in law both got it and were the same as us. Son and Niece you wouldn't have known they've have. I'll for sure take a booster though, dont really understand why anyone wouldn't. They did always say they'd be needed

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3 hours ago, whelk said:

I assumed the booster was to update to Windows 11?

 

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Do they take out the old version or just leave it in there?

Asking for a friend.

It is an upgrade to the User Interface and the 'User Experience'. Under the hood it remains Windows NT at heart.

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On 13/09/2021 at 21:21, buctootim said:

....and the majority of those 256 will have been immuno compromised patients whose bodies weren't able to trigger a response to the vaccine  

Just published today actually, only 59 of those deaths weren’t in the ‘clinically extremely vulnerable’ category. It’s really an astonishing success story and still people are sceptical.

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There haven't been any new variants for a while which is a surprise given the amount people have been travelling of late. Although i guess with the fuel scaremongering and energy bills skyrocketing there is enough bad news for the media to revel in for now.

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4 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

I'm a bit concerned about Collins Dic.

Has anyone heard anything about him recently?

He's still posting under his usual login. 

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I wonder if anyone has suffered from this enhanced version of the common cold circulating at the moment.

A couple members of my family have been struggling with it for at least a week and it is proving difficult to shift.

Covid tests have been negative but it seems our ability to get over colds may have been compromised by masks and segregation last winter

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1 hour ago, spyinthesky said:

I wonder if anyone has suffered from this enhanced version of the common cold circulating at the moment.

A couple members of my family have been struggling with it for at least a week and it is proving difficult to shift.

Covid tests have been negative but it seems our ability to get over colds may have been compromised by masks and segregation last winter

Seems to be some kind of long lasting chest cough / cold going around. I thought I had covid a while ago but turned out to be negative.  

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48 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Seems to be some kind of long lasting chest cough / cold going around. I thought I had covid a while ago but turned out to be negative.  

I have this atm, gone round whole family. PCR’s came back negative despite my son’s class being decimated by positive COVID cases. Weird.

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Shocking if true that only 7 PL clubs have 50% of more of their first team squads vaccinated. Liverpool are in a better position than most to exclude players who refuse but strong management needed. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58775881

You can still pass it on if vaccinated but given how seriously unwell some of Newcastle’s players were pre vaccines and Cotterill nearly dying of it you’d have thought even the average footballer with an IQ of 70 would get it sorted.

Report in the Sun yesterday on front page that at least 3 first team England players refusing, probably bollocks. If I was Southgate I wouldn’t select them, unlike the contractural issues clubs face, national teams can make a stand. Would help flush a few people out as well in public.

Funny how PL players agents are so attentive when transfer fees and contract renewals are due but don’t care enough to drive their precious down to a vaccine centre to stop them killing themselves and others - kids not vaccinated - around them. 

 

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1 hour ago, saint1977 said:

Shocking if true that only 7 PL clubs have 50% of more of their first team squads vaccinated. Liverpool are in a better position than most to exclude players who refuse but strong management needed. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58775881

You can still pass it on if vaccinated but given how seriously unwell some of Newcastle’s players were pre vaccines and Cotterill nearly dying of it you’d have thought even the average footballer with an IQ of 70 would get it sorted.

Report in the Sun yesterday on front page that at least 3 first team England players refusing, probably bollocks. If I was Southgate I wouldn’t select them, unlike the contractural issues clubs face, national teams can make a stand. Would help flush a few people out as well in public.

Funny how PL players agents are so attentive when transfer fees and contract renewals are due but don’t care enough to drive their precious down to a vaccine centre to stop them killing themselves and others - kids not vaccinated - around them. 

 

Frightening and disappointing. They get paid millions a year and all they need to do is keep themselves at maximum fitness and availability. All right, they might not die from Covid or even get seriously ill but post viral fatigue will knock quite a percentage off their performance.

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23 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58833088
 

Another step back towards normality, UK red list to be cut from 54 to 7 from Monday. All part of the great, global reset plan to derail my wedding in Haiti, obviously.

Can’t tell you what a relief it is that we can all now travel to Afghanistan. Back on the stag list

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3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Can’t tell you what a relief it is that we can all now travel to Afghanistan. Back on the stag list

No good news for the Colombian drug mules though. 10 days quarantine with a Johnny full of Charlie up your back alley can’t be much fun.

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4 minutes ago, whelk said:

What is an ‘anti-vaxx writ’?

some charmingly unhinged sorts getting angry with Jeremy Vine

 

F8B230F1-DB4D-467C-BC19-773152FC3BB1.jpeg

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Free speech, innit.

The more anti-vaxxers actually catch a serious case of CoViD the better.

Edited by badgerx16
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A couple of weeks ago my wife booked a flu jab appointment at our local surgery. A few days later they rang her and asked if she’d like a Covid booster at the same time to which she readily agreed. Yesterday morning she went along and was told that she couldn’t have the booster until at least six months after her second vaccination. 

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4 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Anti-vaxers are just sheep, being told what to think and do by social media.

We really should be working on developing a real fuck off variant to give them. Before Sandra the Cat starts wielding her noose

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Finally!  Must be time to start talking about winter lockdowns, hospitals can't cope, flu etc etc...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58965650

Quote

Officials are keeping a close watch on a new descendant of the Delta variant of Covid that is causing a growing number of infections.

Delta is the UK's dominant variant, but latest official data suggests 6% of Covid cases that have been genetically sequenced are of a new type.

 

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My young son lost his first grandparent on Sunday. 
Grandfather taken to hospital with breathing difficulties friday. 
passed away Sunday. Confirmed Covid. No other major underlying issues. 
now his grandmother has it,but thankfully not hospitalised. 
both double jabbed.🤷🏻‍♂️

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15 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Finally!  Must be time to start talking about winter lockdowns, hospitals can't cope, flu etc etc...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58965650

 

My hospital is full, we have been tasked with making extra bedspaces on current wards. The problem is we haven't got enough staff to open a winter pressure ward.

We are short of nurses, yet the Tories expect kids to pay £9k a year for three years to train, all for a low to average wage at the end. No surprise kids choose not to do it, surely a tory market approach would be free training.

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16 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Finally!  Must be time to start talking about winter lockdowns, hospitals can't cope, flu etc etc...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58965650

 

200+ deaths yesterday Weston, plus nearly 50k cases, then anecdotal evidence from the likes of Fan The Flames of full hospitals, reminders from Saint Lard of how serious this shit can be, etc. I'm still on the keep going as we are camp, just, but a scale back wouldn't be unrealistic or a surprise. 

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2 hours ago, egg said:

200+ deaths yesterday Weston, plus nearly 50k cases, then anecdotal evidence from the likes of Fan The Flames of full hospitals, reminders from Saint Lard of how serious this shit can be, etc. I'm still on the keep going as we are camp, just, but a scale back wouldn't be unrealistic or a surprise. 

There were more daily deaths at the beginning of July.

I imagine hospitals always get full at this time of year, add to that the fact that we know the virus has historically spread more easily in hospitals, and we'll end up with more deaths recorded despite the actual cause - i.e. pensioner could be in hospital with chest infection from flu, tests positive after catching the virus in hospital, dies from chest infection, but gets recorded as covid...

A scale back would be horrendous, look at the effects caused by the last lock downs! 

Shield the vulnerable, sure, but don't restrict anyone who doesn't want to be restricted.

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37 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

There were more daily deaths at the beginning of July.

I imagine hospitals always get full at this time of year, add to that the fact that we know the virus has historically spread more easily in hospitals, and we'll end up with more deaths recorded despite the actual cause - i.e. pensioner could be in hospital with chest infection from flu, tests positive after catching the virus in hospital, dies from chest infection, but gets recorded as covid...

A scale back would be horrendous, look at the effects caused by the last lock downs! 

Shield the vulnerable, sure, but don't restrict anyone who doesn't want to be restricted.

You’re ok. You don’t get out much anyway. 
Obviously not had anyone close go through this horrible disease.

Lockdowns worked. Its only the the illogical individualists who don’t understand how collective spirit works. These are the  same people who bang on about the blitz spirit who never lifted a finger to help anyone.

 

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On 15/09/2021 at 13:45, egg said:

Anecdotally, people I know who were double vaccinated and got covid shortly after were all OK describing the effects of the jab as worse than the virus. I know a couple of people who have had it more recently but had their jabs a while ago, who have been very poorly. Don't get me wrong, this could be down to the individuals, but I'll take an extra shot if its offered. 

We got it 3 months after our jabs and was a heavy cold with a couple of days loss of taste and smell then 2-3 days of fatigue but overall not too bad. Same for other members of the family who we caught if from and were vaccinated at the same time. That was in august so now with the jab starting to wear off and natural immunity of having it recently will see us through until booster time. It’s rife In schools where we live at the moment with loads of kids in my sons school but adults it seems to have dropped right off. 

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1 hour ago, Warriorsaint said:

You’re ok. You don’t get out much anyway. 
Obviously not had anyone close go through this horrible disease.

Lockdowns worked. Its only the the illogical individualists who don’t understand how collective spirit works. These are the  same people who bang on about the blitz spirit who never lifted a finger to help anyone.

 

Lockdowns are not sustainable. We cannot immunise ourselves from death.

This is what living with it means. It isn’t eradicating it and we must be allowed to make our own choices. The toll of lockdowns has huge impact on less calculable casualties.

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5 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

My hospital is full, we have been tasked with making extra bedspaces on current wards. The problem is we haven't got enough staff to open a winter pressure ward.

We are short of nurses, yet the Tories expect kids to pay £9k a year for three years to train, all for a low to average wage at the end. No surprise kids choose not to do it, surely a tory market approach would be free training.

It woudl seem it must be an outlier as general patient numbers are not at that point

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2370C732-4FDF-4011-B092-8478A272EACB.jpeg

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10 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Seems to me the sooner we get onto the sort of mild restrictions pf Plan B, which is very far from the notion of lockdown, the less likely we'll need more the extremely draconian measures. History has taught us unfortunately though that this govt will dither and dither.

Nope. The sooner it rips through the population that are going t o get it the better. At the moment it seems to be all the youngsters near me.

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3 hours ago, Turkish said:

We got it 3 months after our jabs and was a heavy cold with a couple of days loss of taste and smell then 2-3 days of fatigue but overall not too bad. Same for other members of the family who we caught if from and were vaccinated at the same time. That was in august so now with the jab starting to wear off and natural immunity of having it recently will see us through until booster time. It’s rife In schools where we live at the moment with loads of kids in my sons school but adults it seems to have dropped right off. 

We had it back in march 19, haven't had it since. I don't take many precautions, shake peoples hands and touch everything etc. obviously do the basic hygiene stuff of course but generally just do what i used to do.  Getting it twice is still fairly rare, i think the anti bodies are a lot stronger than people suggest. I hope after this winter that most people have had it and we can move on. 

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2 hours ago, whelk said:

It woudl seem it must be an outlier as general patient numbers are not at that point

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That's just for covid patients, I was talking about all patients, maybe I wasn't clear. There has been a slight but increasing rise of covid patients in my hospital, but nothing like the other peaks. We are full with backlog patients and current elective care and we will have the usual winter pressures on top. The point being that a rise in covid patients will be impossible to accommodate without the shut down of scheduled care.

On top of that 40k nurse vacancies, something will have to give. They can free up space by stopping elective care, so hip replacements etc will have to wait another 6 months.

We should try to avoid a further lockdown. Maybe more mask wearing, but the mask has been politicised by the anti anti-freedoms politicians and commentators.

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36 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

That's just for covid patients, I was talking about all patients, maybe I wasn't clear. There has been a slight but increasing rise of covid patients in my hospital, but nothing like the other peaks. We are full with backlog patients and current elective care and we will have the usual winter pressures on top. The point being that a rise in covid patients will be impossible to accommodate without the shut down of scheduled care.

On top of that 40k nurse vacancies, something will have to give. They can free up space by stopping elective care, so hip replacements etc will have to wait another 6 months.

We should try to avoid a further lockdown. Maybe more mask wearing, but the mask has been politicised by the anti anti-freedoms politicians and commentators.

We have kept mask wearing indoors and at busy markets in France, and you can't go in a bar or restaurant if you have not been tested/vaccinated. The cases have just started going up again, but only to 5,000 a day, against the 45,000 a day in England. On that basis you would expect roughly NINE TIMES the number of deaths in the UK to France in a months time, if the UK Gov continues to ignore the problem.  Also, with this new  more virulent Delta variant, don't be suprised of the UK ends up back on everyone's Red List for travel.  

 

But yeah, but freedom day innit ! 

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10 minutes ago, redkeith said:

We have kept mask wearing indoors and at busy markets in France, and you can't go in a bar or restaurant if you have not been tested/vaccinated. The cases have just started going up again, but only to 5,000 a day, against the 45,000 a day in England. On that basis you would expect roughly NINE TIMES the number of deaths in the UK to France in a months time, if the UK Gov continues to ignore the problem.  Also, with this new  more virulent Delta variant, don't be suprised of the UK ends up back on everyone's Red List for travel.  

 

But yeah, but freedom day innit ! 

Why?

Absolutely nothing about the virus has been linear to date.

Maybe you've also missed the vaccination program we've been running which has meant that hospitalisations haven't manifested into deaths....

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5 hours ago, Warriorsaint said:

You’re ok. You don’t get out much anyway. 
Obviously not had anyone close go through this horrible disease.

Lockdowns worked. Its only the the illogical individualists who don’t understand how collective spirit works. These are the  same people who bang on about the blitz spirit who never lifted a finger to help anyone.

 

Lol.

Still got me on ignore then ;) 

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5 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Why?

Absolutely nothing about the virus has been linear to date.

Maybe you've also missed the vaccination program we've been running which has meant that hospitalisations haven't manifested into deaths....

France has more people vaccinated than the uk now and are doing boosters too. The 9 times  death rate is based on the fact ratio of infections to deaths being similar in developed countries, thus 9 times as may people infected means nine times more people hospitalised in the next 2 weeks and then the same ratio of deaths within the following 2 weeks as a viroligist was discussing on the BBC this morning.  

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