Lyanco

[Matthew Le God]

8 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

Can't be us as the team concerned is "doing very well". I'm guessing Palace or West Ham in reality, but who knows!!

Palace are only 1 point above Saints, so if they are doing very well then so are Saints.

[Matthew Le God]

2 hours ago, Minsk said:

There's something about Lyanco that reminds me of Maya; neither blessed with great pace

Yoshida recorded among the highest speeds of any Premier League player when at Saints. 

[Dman]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/worrall-southampton-nottingham-forest-transfer-6175950

Sounds like we told Worrall we were going to sign him and then the next day signed Lyanco and he is fuming about that fact.

Nope. West Ham & Zouma. 

[TWar]

18 minutes ago, Dman said:

Nope. West Ham & Zouma. 

Actually, after a bit more research I think it was most likely Brentford and Ajer.

https://www.nottinghamforest.news/2021/07/20/report-brentford-perform-u-turn-on-nottingham-forest-star-joe-worrall/

Nixon reported that Brentford made a stunning u-turn on signing him after he had already been left out of a match day squad. This was reported on the 20th of July and Ajer was signed on the 21st.

Edited 8 November, 2021 by TWar

[Minsk]

19 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Yoshida recorded among the highest speeds of any Premier League player when at Saints. 

You're right, he did. I stand corrected. So a bit pacier than Lyanco, who himself looks more mobile than all our other CBs bar Salisu.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Both Salisu and Lyanco look "reasonably quick", but compared to Vestergaard and Bednarek look rapid.

[TWar]

33 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Both Salisu and Lyanco look "reasonably quick", but compared to Vestergaard and Bednarek look rapid.

I don't think Lyanco looks that quick, not moreso than Bednarek. Salisu is proper rapid though.

[Dark Munster]

7 hours ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Both Salisu and Lyanco look "reasonably quick", but compared to Vestergaard and Bednarek look rapid.

An oil tanker looks rapid compared to Vestergaard.

[Saint86]

On 08/11/2021 at 15:38, Dman said:

Nope. West Ham & Zouma. 

Yeah reading that, and with the hindsight of the ogbonna injury, that is about west ham. There was very little paper talk about Lyanco as well.

[BERMUDASAINT]

On 20/08/2021 at 11:06, Convict Colony said:

Old report 

 

Full name: Lyanco Evangelista Silveira Neves Vojnović

Country: Serbia/Brazil

Date of birth: 01/02/1997 (19 years old)

Place of birth: Vitória (Brazil)

Height: 188cm

Youth career: Botafogo, São Paulo (since 2015)

Current club: São Paulo

Squad number: 34

Current national team: Serbia U-19

Position: central defender

Preferred foot: right

Market value (by transfermarkt.de): 250.000 € 

Tournaments participated in: —

Contract until: 31.12.2018

Player’s agent: unknown

Similar type of player: Gerard Piqué

 

Strengths:

– tackling and intercepting 

– aerial duels 

– marking 

– athleticism 

– pace 

– concentration 

– composure 

– anticipation 

– maturity 

 

Weaknesses:

No significant weaknesses.

 

Style of play:

– complete and dominant defender

– excellent ball-winner and man-marker

– likes to play long balls

– likes to maraud forward

– well-fit, hard-working, and quick at anticipating the movement of the opponents

– accurate and tenacious tackler

– extremely dominant in the air

– forceful, quick and powerful

– very good at breaking down opposition plays due to his positional sense, defensive attributes, tactical intelligence, and ability to read the game

– able to control the threat of the attacker without causing an imbalance in the defensive line

A lot of negativity at first signing. After seeing him on the pitch for our own eyes, if he lives up to the glowing scouting report ( "no significant weakness", I hope it wasn't written by his mum) he will be a world beater !!

Posted August 25

We have a Brazillian/Serbian! 6'2, hopefully with the skill worthy of the beautiful game and the grit and toughness of the Serbs. Played for the U23, U20 Brazilian national team, U18 Serbia NT so must have potential, might be great business if his talent lives up to pedigree. 

SAMBA SAINTS!

[STEVEADAMS]

On 22/09/2021 at 15:50, Nordic Saint said:

He certainly wasn't fine in Serie A so why should he be fine here? It's not any easier here.

And how’s he been doing then?, pretty good reports so far. So perhaps everyone shouldn’t be so quick to judge. 

[Nordic Saint]

On 12/11/2021 at 08:33, STEVEADAMS said:

And how’s he been doing then?, pretty good reports so far. So perhaps everyone shouldn’t be so quick to judge. 

I've been quite impressed by what I've seen of him so far, so there are some grounds for optimism. It will be interesting to see how he does when he gets his first Premier League start.

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, Nordic Saint said:

I've been quite impressed by what I've seen of him so far, so there are some grounds for optimism. It will be interesting to see how he does when he gets his first Premier League start.

That could be sooner rather than later. Bednarek dropped out of the Poland squad for reasons unknown, and Jack won't be fit enough to slot right in and play 90 mins next week against Norwich if he is indeed available.

No better game to give him his chance than against a potentially still managerless bottom of the table team.

[hypochondriac]

On 12/11/2021 at 08:33, STEVEADAMS said:

And how’s he been doing then?, pretty good reports so far. So perhaps everyone shouldn’t be so quick to judge. 

Or maybe they were commenting on the previous reports on the player like every signing we have ever made? Absolutely bizarre that some seem to think you can't have an initial impression of a signing prior to playing for us. 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Or maybe they were commenting on the previous reports on the player like every signing we have ever made? Absolutely bizarre that some seem to think you can't have an initial impression of a signing prior to playing for us. 

Yep. Not sure what we're supposed to say/discuss unless it's what a player has done previously. 

[revolution saint]

.

Edited 13 November, 2021 by revolution saint
screwed up the quote

[hypochondriac]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Yep. Not sure what we're supposed to say/discuss unless it's what a player has done previously. 

It happens with every signing that isn't received with universal positivity. I'm not sure why it needs to be said but every single signing we make has the pote tial to be amazing but that doesn't mean you can't give an opinion about the signing prior to the performance. It's odd. 

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

It happens with every signing that isn't received with universal positivity. I'm not sure why it needs to be said but every single signing we make has the pote tial to be amazing but that doesn't mean you can't give an opinion about the signing prior to the performance. It's odd. 

I don’t think anyone says you can’t give an opinion, just that you look a bit of a tit if you write them off before even seeing them play. This is a forum though, bit odd to think anyone is saying you can’t have an opinion.

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, revolution saint said:

I don’t think anyone says you can’t give an opinion, just that you look a bit of a tit if you write them off before even seeing them play. This is a forum though, bit odd to think anyone is saying you can’t have an opinion.

And again, saying you are underwhelmed at a signing or pointing to them potentially not being very good based on their previous record and fan reports is not writing someone off. I'm not sure why that's difficult for some posters on here to grasp. Some signings will seem underwhelming and be terrible like Carillo, some will be much better than expected like Pelle, Mane and possibly Lyanco. 

Edited 13 November, 2021 by hypochondriac

[Suhari]

I like this guy. He's growing on me.

I like that he's a character. I like that he shows passion for little things: celebrating winning a free kick, making a strong tackle.

He seems pretty mobile, no slouch, can carry the ball and seems decent in the air.

Was well against him signing when it was first breaking; based on nothing but comments on here. Think that was a hasty view.

Hopefully he can kick on and become a favourite of ours.

 

[revolution saint]

11 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

And again, saying you are underwhelmed at a signing or pointing to them potentially not being very good based on their previous record and fan reports is not writing someone off. I'm not sure why that's difficult for some posters on here to grasp. Some signings will seem underwhelming and be terrible like Carillo, some will be much better than expected like Pelle, Mane and possibly Lyanco. 

You seem to be imagining something that simply hasn't happened.  There were plenty of examples of people saying Lyanco was shit, useless etc etc - I listed them for you.  That's writing a player off.  Saying your underwhelmed - nah, no one said a thing.  You can give me an example though to prove me wrong.  I'm not sure what you're expecting a reaction to saying you're underwhelmed to be though?  Did you expect fanfares and hordes of crowds bowing down to your self acknowledged lack of first hand experience?  Bizarre.

[CB Fry]

14 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

You seem to be imagining something that simply hasn't happened.  There were plenty of examples of people saying Lyanco was shit, useless etc etc - I listed them for you.  That's writing a player off.  Saying your underwhelmed - nah, no one said a thing.  You can give me an example though to prove me wrong.  I'm not sure what you're expecting a reaction to saying you're underwhelmed to be though?  Did you expect fanfares and hordes of crowds bowing down to your self acknowledged lack of first hand experience?  Bizarre.

Really odd post.

The comments around the time of his signing were closer to "it's underwhelming" (his appearances, reports from his club, the general underwhelming-ness of it, the fact we were picking up third/fourth choice players from relegation level Serie A teams). We'd also just sold a centre back for £15m and in previous windows we'd been buying CBs for £16m-£18m. This guy was nowhere near that.

Most people wer not saying "he's useless" off the bat because most people had never seen him fucking play.

If anyone is "imagining" things its you.

 

Edited 13 November, 2021 by CB Fry

[revolution saint]

11 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Really odd post.

The comments around the time of his slugging were closer to "it's underwhelming" (his appearances, reports from his club, the general underwhelming-ness of it, the fact we were picking up third/fourth choice players from relegation level Serie A teams). We'd also just sold a centre vack for £15m and in previous windows we'd been buying CBs for £16m-£18m. This guy was nowhere near that.

Most people wer not saying "he's useless" off the bat because most people had never seen him fucking play.

If anyone is "imagining" things its you.

 

Unfortunately I can't quote back the post I made where I showed those comments that wrote him off.  It was in the Summer transfer window thread on 21st August - have a look at the posts I quoted and come back after you've read them.

 

Edit:  And I've said before no one criticised anyone for saying they were simply underwhelmed.  That didn't happen but you're welcome to prove me wrong.

Edited 13 November, 2021 by revolution saint

[CB Fry]

9 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Unfortunately I can't quote back the post I made where I showed those comments that wrote him off.  It was in the Summer transfer window thread on 21st August - have a look at the posts I quoted and come back after you've read them.

Nah, you're alright. He didn’t like a particularly exciting signing at the time, which is the kind of thing I said when we signed him. 

If he turns out to be a Ballon D'Or winning greatest centre back of all time, that doesn't make what I said in August incorrect.

He didn't look like a particularly exciting signing at the time. Said it then, still true.

My main criticism was that he wasn't the front line centre back i thought we needed, and oh look I'm right. He didn’t go into the first team as a first choice CB. So I was right there too, he's barely played.

So remind me what people have been proved wrong about again? What victory lap are you actually on here?

 

Edited 13 November, 2021 by CB Fry

[revolution saint]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

Nah, you're alright. He didn’t like a particularly exciting signing at the time, which is the kind of thing I said when we signed him. 

If he turns out to be a Ballon D'Or winning greatest centre back of all time, that doesn't make what I said in August incorrect.

He didn't look like a particularly exciting signing at the time. Said it then, still true.

My main criticism was that he wasn't the front line centre back i thought we needed, and oh look I'm right. He didn’t go into the first team as a first choice CB. So I was right there too, he's barely played.

So remind me what people have been proved wrong about again? What victory lap are you actually on here?

 

All I'm doing is refuting a claim that people were criticised for simply saying they were underwhelmed.  Never happened.

[CB Fry]

9 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

All I'm doing is refuting a claim that people were criticised for simply saying they were underwhelmed.  Never happened.

As someone who far too often gets into pointless bickering on here about nothing (Look, I'm sorry everyone), this seems a particularly thin issue to argue the toss over.

Fight the good fight, though 👍

 

[revolution saint]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

As someone who far too often gets into pointless bickering on here about nothing (Look, I'm sorry everyone), this seems a particularly thin issue to argue the toss over.

Fight the good fight, though 👍

 

Well that was a quick scrap.  I normally win most fights by at least 50 metres.  To be honest if you look at my posts I've never claimed that Lyanco is the second coming and I don't think anyone has.  Some people did write him off and a few (me included) just said it needs a bit of time before making a judgement.  I think saying underwhelming is fair enough - no problem with that.  Only problem I have is creating a little persecution complex where people think they were criticised for that when they actually weren't.

[John Boy Saint]

Hard to judge him on the Blades game - those who were physically in attendance in Sheffield said he wasn’t as bad as some made out. Making your first start v a Championship team must have been a culture shock having come from a league where simulation is an art form. Then you face an un cultured character like McBurnie who would be up “for settling it out in the car park” most probably had him thinking “where exactly is the line in the sand”.

Watching the Chelsea cup game, I thought he was pretty good , him and Salisu seemed to have a connection. 

[austsaint]

6 hours ago, revolution saint said:

Well that was a quick scrap.  I normally win most fights by at least 50 metres.  To be honest if you look at my posts I've never claimed that Lyanco is the second coming and I don't think anyone has.  Some people did write him off and a few (me included) just said it needs a bit of time before making a judgement.  I think saying underwhelming is fair enough - no problem with that.  Only problem I have is creating a little persecution complex where people think they were criticised for that when they actually weren't.

Thoroughly enjoyable banter and wind up from you and the CB Fry character.   The good news is that Lyanco looks like being more of a Fonte than a Forren (was that his name?).   I'd like to think the Club "knew" that Salisu was going to blossom, like he has this season, making the punt on Lyanco less risky.

[Dellman]

9 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Nah, you're alright. He didn’t like a particularly exciting signing at the time, which is the kind of thing I said when we signed him. 

If he turns out to be a Ballon D'Or winning greatest centre back of all time, that doesn't make what I said in August incorrect.

He didn't look like a particularly exciting signing at the time. Said it then, still true.

My main criticism was that he wasn't the front line centre back i thought we needed, and oh look I'm right. He didn’t go into the first team as a first choice CB. So I was right there too, he's barely played.

So remind me what people have been proved wrong about again? What victory lap are you actually on here?

 

It is possible to 'buy for the future' and that is what we are doing rather well. Not every buy has to be first team instantly, that's what we have coaches for.

[hypochondriac]

9 hours ago, revolution saint said:

All I'm doing is refuting a claim that people were criticised for simply saying they were underwhelmed.  Never happened.

Plenty of posters on here accused myself and others of writing him off when we said he was an underwhelming signing and that the evidence didn't look promising that he would be the first choice starter we needed. 

[AlexLaw76]

19 minutes ago, Dellman said:

It is possible to 'buy for the future' and that is what we are doing rather well. Not every buy has to be first team instantly, that's what we have coaches for.

Rather well?

We are generally rubbish, and have been for a while - partly due to buying for 2 seasons' time

[egg]

32 minutes ago, Dellman said:

It is possible to 'buy for the future' and that is what we are doing rather well. Not every buy has to be first team instantly, that's what we have coaches for.

That's been our way for years - buy, develop, sell, repeat. There can be a painful and slow development period - eg Salisu - but quick ones - Tino - or abject disasters - Hoedt - etc etc. 

The thing with Lyanco is that he didn't feel like the our usual type of investment signing. It felt like a cheap punt which may or may not work out. The reviews from Italy were underwhelming, thus posters who read those, were underwhelmed. So far he looks better than expected, and our coaches may be a part of that. 

 

[revolution saint]

27 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Plenty of posters on here accused myself and others of writing him off when we said he was an underwhelming signing and that the evidence didn't look promising that he would be the first choice starter we needed. 

I don't think that happened.  You've got the opportunity to prove me wrong though.

[egg]

Just now, revolution saint said:

I don't think that happened.  You've got the opportunity to prove me wrong though.

That's absolutely how it was, and if the details really matter to you, search back through the thread. As CB says, it's a bit of a pointless fight though. 

[revolution saint]

Just now, egg said:

That's absolutely how it was, and if the details really matter to you, search back through the thread. As CB says, it's a bit of a pointless fight though. 

No, it wasn't.  We could do this all day and if feeding a little persecution complex is your thing then crack on.  Doesn't make it true.

[egg]

9 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

No, it wasn't.  We could do this all day and if feeding a little persecution complex is your thing then crack on.  Doesn't make it true.

We could, and the answer would still be what I and others have said and you'd still be sat there with your fingers in your ears refusing to listen, and we'll still have a Lyanco who's signing was underwhelming but looking a little better than expected. It'd also still be a Sunday with, I suspect, better things to do so I'm off to do those better things. Have a good day. 

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Dellman said:

It is possible to 'buy for the future' and that is what we are doing rather well. Not every buy has to be first team instantly, that's what we have coaches for.

Yes, and it is also possible to sign players for the first team: like Adam Armstrong, like Stuart Armstrong, like Che Adams, like Kyle Walker Peters, like Jannick Vestergaard.

I didn't think it was a unjustified opinion back then that Vestergaard's replacement should be a player signed with that intent rather than a "one for the future". In Stephens and Bednarek we have two third choice CBs competing for second choice.

I would say now that Salisu being an absolute beast this season has made that less of an issue so I salute Ralph for that.

Jury still out on Lycano himself though.

Edited 14 November, 2021 by CB Fry

[hypochondriac]

26 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

I don't think that happened.  You've got the opportunity to prove me wrong though.

I don't need to prove you wrong and as this forum no longer has a search facility I wouldn't be able to trawl through past posts even if I wanted to. What I posted is true because I made reference to it at the time as it's not the first time it's happened. Plenty of posters get annoyed at other posters if they dare to suggest that a signing might not be the best option we could have made. I see I'm not the only poster who remembers exactly what was said. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Dellman said:

It is possible to 'buy for the future' and that is what we are doing rather well. Not every buy has to be first team instantly, that's what we have coaches for.

Of course it is possible but the risk we took was that we'd get relegated whilst waiting for some of these players to get to the required standard. Fair play to the club they've got a bit of stability this year and we have improved but it's early days yet. 

[hypochondriac]

28 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

No, it wasn't.  We could do this all day and if feeding a little persecution complex is your thing then crack on.  Doesn't make it true.

When you've got three or four posters telling you that's exactly how it was, I'd suggest you may want to consider the possibility that you are wrong... 

[revolution saint]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

When you've got three or four posters telling you that's exactly how it was, I'd suggest you may want to consider the possibility that you are wrong... 

Jeez,  all you have to do is find an example of people criticising you simply because you said it was underwhelming.  If it was that common place then it should be easy.  Frankly unless you can come up with that then I'm out.  Let's be honest you made the claim and I called you on it.  If you can back it up then fine but you've had ample opportunity and have failed.

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Jeez,  all you have to do is find an example of people criticising you simply because you said it was underwhelming.  If it was that common place then it should be easy.  Frankly unless you can come up with that then I'm out.  Let's be honest you made the claim and I called you on it.  If you can back it up then fine but you've had ample opportunity and have failed.

I haven't "failed" I'm just not going trawling through the forum without a search function in order to find posts that I and others have confirmed existed at the time in order to prove something to some bloke on the Internet that's trying to goad me into wasting my time. Believe what you want, it's clear from multiple posters now that it happened and its likely to happen again with future signings. It's OK to be wrong. Go and enjoy your Sunday. 

[Chapel End]

On 20/08/2021 at 21:52, Dman said:

He looks absolutely fucking awful 😂😂😂 

I, maybe naively, thought that we’d spend a decent part of the Vestergaard money improving an already weak area of the squad. It looks like we’ve just made it even weaker. 

With what this fool Will cost us, we could have got a championship CB in to prepare for it next season. This muppet doesn’t even look good enough for that. 

Well here is one expert write of view.

Why do some never give someone a chance first 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

Well here is one expert write of view.

Why do some never give someone a chance first 

When your star witness is SKDman, you have a shit case. 

[Chapel End]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

When your star witness is SKDman, you have a shit case. 

Not making a case just cannot understand for a second why a player is written off so early, before he signed Ffs 

[AlexLaw76]

10 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

Not making a case just cannot understand for a second why a player is written off so early, before he signed Ffs 

it happens.  It happened with the like for Forecast, Pulis and Lyanco.  It is what fans do.

[Sheaf Saint]

I was at the Sheff Utd game, and although he understandably looked a bit rusty, given it was his first game in English football, it was obvious he had something about him. He was let down quite badly by Valery having a mare at RB and constantly leaving him exposed.

When I read the comments on here the next day, I was pretty amazed really. There were a number of people saying he looked awful and hopelessly out of his depth, but he really wasn't. Weirdly, the most negative comments of all seemed to be from people who weren't even there. And there weren't even any streams for that game!

I get the sense that some people were desperate for him to fail so they could use that to justify their criticisms of the club's recruitment over the summer.

 

[Chapel End]

10 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

it happens.  It happened with the like for Forecast, Pulis and Lyanco.  It is what fans do.

Yes but it doesn't stop it being utterly stupid as we have had it with several players but you don't mention those but I will give you 1....... Pelle.

 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Chapel End said:

Yes but it doesn't stop it being utterly stupid as we have had it with several players but you don't mention those but I will give you 1....... Pelle.

 

Was it stupid when we all wrote-off Forecast when he signed?