Saints vs Newcastle - Postponed

[DT]

I see they may have their first money grabbing mercenaries playing for them when we face them - Trippier. Will be a few more I suspect. Will basically buy safety. 

[whelk]

9 minutes ago, DT said:

I see they may have their first money grabbing mercenaries playing for them when we face them - Trippier. Will be a few more I suspect. Will basically buy safety. 

Trippier could turn out to be a bad buy.

[tunit]

So they cried off our game so they could buy Englands 5th or 6th best right back. I would honestly not swap Trippier for either KWP or Tino. God I hope they go down and something else happens which puts them in the sh*t. Liquidation would be superb if that could somehow happen

Edited 1 January, 2022 by tunit

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, tunit said:

So they cried off our game so they could buy Englands 5th or 6th best right back. I would honestly not swap Trippier for either KWP or Tino.

More to the point he’s 31 and Newcastle won’t be competing for anything for at least four or five years.

[Chez]

2 hours ago, Doctoroncall said:

- Players listed on the club’s squad list who are still available to play in the match, including appropriately experienced Under-21 players (which includes Under-21 players who have played for the club, another Premier League or EFL club, or an overseas club in the current season)

I was wondering what the criteria was relating to u23 players and why they could not just fill the gaps left by senior pros.

Give a young player a few minutes from the bench and they effectively become experienced, expanding your squad size and potentially removing the option of calling a game off.

[philelec]

22 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

The younger squad don't count towards the 25 man registration limit for the first team. The regulation for Covid says minimum 13 + 1GK from the first team squad plus any U23s who have previously been named in a match day squad during this season or the last, ( termed 'suitably experienced' ). If NUFC have not been listing U23s in the 18 man squads then they don't count. Saints have been doing so, for instance the starting 11 and subs for the 9-0 at OT, so we wil find it harder to exploit the Covid rule.

In the Championship, and below, the rule is 13+1 from the combined first team and reserves, regardless of experience.

 

[JRM]

47 minutes ago, The Cat said:

If you supported a Championship club you'd be praying Newcastle stay up. No way would you be wanting to put up with their gloating, arrogant fans next season while they cruise to the title by 20 points.

I think Newcastle will definitely stay up, I think they'll be above Watford and Norwich and probably Burnley, they will do enough to go on a decent run to get over the line. 

[philelec]

Just now, philelec said:

 

In my opinion for what it's worth, under the present circumstances, teams replaying postponed games should only be allowed to use players registered with them at the time of the postponement in the replay.

Maybe that would stop a number of games being postponed!

[John B]

Why do most people think Newcastle are cheating 

 

I have no idea whether they are or not but surely you would have thought there must be something which is available that shows what Newcastle Utd are saying is correct

 

But that said I usually think Boris is cheating or being economical with the truth must be the times we live when we do not trust what people we do not know but dislike do or say

[saintmonkey1979]

3 hours ago, Doctoroncall said:

A new rule was added this season with regard to players unavailability for matches due to Covid Omicron variant:  

When making an application, clubs must provide the Board with the following details, together with clear reasons why they believe the match should be postponed:

- Players and staff who have returned a positive COVID-19 test, their vaccination status and, if known, the source of their infections
- Players and staff who are self-isolating
- Players who are unavailable to play through injury or illness
- Players listed on the club’s squad list who are still available to play in the match, including appropriately experienced Under-21 players (which includes Under-21 players who have played for the club, another Premier League or EFL club, or an overseas club in the current season)
- Supporting medical information to verify the status of each unavailable player, which will be reviewed by the League’s medical advisers

more here on what the PL will consider:

1) The impact of COVID-19 infections on a club’s squad, as well as injuries, illness and those isolating, and the number of players available on the squad list and any Under-21 players with appropriate experience. Where a club cannot field 13 outfield players and a goalkeeper either from its squad list or its appropriately experienced Under-21 players, the match will be postponed.
2) The status of any COVID-19 outbreak within a club, including the number of individuals affected, the sequence and source of infections and their proximity to the match in question.
3) A club’s ability to safely prepare its players in the lead-up to a match.
4) Medical advice as to whether there is any unacceptable risk to the health and safety of players and staff by playing the match.
5) Any advice from UK Health Security Agency and other public bodies.
6) Any other exceptional circumstances.
 

farcical as clubs will use this to their own advantage  

 

Thanks for that. It clears it up in my mind a little bit. 

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, philelec said:

In my opinion for what it's worth, under the present circumstances, teams replaying postponed games should only be allowed to use players registered with them at the time of the postponement in the replay.

Maybe that would stop a number of games being postponed!

What if team A, being the team that asked for the postponement, have sold 3 players from their squad in the meantime, and team B, the innocent party, have signed 2 new starters.

[badgerx16]

56 minutes ago, John B said:

Why do most people think Newcastle are cheating 

 

I have no idea whether they are or not but surely you would have thought there must be something which is available that shows what Newcastle Utd are saying is correct

 

But that said I usually think Boris is cheating or being economical with the truth must be the times we live when we do not trust what people we do not know but dislike do or say

It is because Newcastle, of all the teams in the league, have most to gain from postponing games because they know that they will be spending more than anybody else in January and so will be playing the rescheduled games with a stronger team than they would otherwise have put out for them. And given most fans' views of the management of the EPL, there is an easy correlation that keeps NUFC and their money in the league for next season.

Edited 1 January, 2022 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, DT said:

I see they may have their first money grabbing mercenaries playing for them when we face them - Trippier. Will be a few more I suspect. Will basically buy safety. 

Apparently the contract is nearly there but relegation clauses still to be agreed.

[philelec]

31 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

What if team A, being the team that asked for the postponement, have sold 3 players from their squad in the meantime, and team B, the innocent party, have signed 2 new starters.

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, John B said:

 

I have no idea whether they are or not but surely you would have thought there must be something which is available that shows what Newcastle Utd are saying is correct

 

 

Covid wise there will be, I doubt any club would falsify Covid results. What can they do? Get somebody who has Covid to take the test for somebody that hasn’t. However, that’s a dangerous route to go down, particularly if the bloke pretending the test is his, then catches it. I’d imagine a conversation along the lines “You know shelvey had Covid 3 weeks ago, well he’s gone and got it again”, wouldn’t go down particularly well with the league. Id have thought during conversations with the Gov or PHE, reporting accurately Covid numbers would figure quite high up. The only falsification they can really get away with is non vaccinated players being in contact with positive people. That’s pretty hard to disprove.

I guess the issue is with injuries, but they’re really subjective. The tears and pulls are easy to prove, but knocks and slight strains pretty impossible because players will play through them. How can a doctor tell someone with a “knock” he’s fit to play, If he says he isn’t? 

 

Edited 1 January, 2022 by Lord Duckhunter

[DT]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Apparently the contract is nearly there but relegation clauses still to be agreed.

I bet it’s eye-watering amounts of money

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I guess the issue is with injuries, but they’re really subjective. The tears and pulls are easy to prove, but knocks and slight strains pretty impossible because players will play through them. How can a doctor tell someone with a “knock” he’s fit to play, If he says he isn’t? 

 

That’s exactly the point I made earlier when you quoted the PL rule book at me. If a club needs to make up a few injuries to get a game postponed there is nothing the PL can do about it. They have left it wide open for clubs to cheat and when you are up against clubs owned by murderers then it’s bound to happen.

[cloggy saint]

7 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

Used to have a lot of time for Newcastle supporters but many seem to have lost their heads since being bought out by the Saudis - whining and delusion almost reaching Liverpool or Spurs standards. 

Like all the whining on this thread?

[Toussaint]

22 hours ago, hackedoff said:

PL is warped,get used to it.

I’m getting used to really not enjoying it, or anything about it.

[Toadhall Saint]

2 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I’m getting used to really not enjoying it, or anything about it.

Think there’s a few like that including myself.

[Chez]

I know there is a lot of luck involved, but perhaps teams with lots of injuries should not be rewarded with the opportunity to postpone. It's maybe up to teams to sign younger players, players that aren't injury prone and then maximise their fitness and manage game time etc. The best form of ability is availability. 

Obviously illness, COVID-19 and the connected protocols are a different matter, but shouldn't this be viewed separately from injuries?

If one team has 10 players out with injuries and one with COVID, should that be seen as the same as a team with say 2 injuries and 9 with COVID?

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Surely only covid cases should be taken into account. Injuries are part and parcel of the game. Premier league squads are big enough to cope. Am sure Newcastle have only had a nominal amount of covid cases,which is what should be the only cause to have matches called off.

[Toadhall Saint]

24 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Surely only covid cases should be taken into account. Injuries are part and parcel of the game. Premier league squads are big enough to cope. Am sure Newcastle have only had a nominal amount of covid cases,which is what should be the only cause to have matches called off.

Yup.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Covid wise there will be, I doubt any club would falsify Covid results. What can they do? Get somebody who has Covid to take the test for somebody that hasn’t. However, that’s a dangerous route to go down, particularly if the bloke pretending the test is his, then catches it. I’d imagine a conversation along the lines “You know shelvey had Covid 3 weeks ago, well he’s gone and got it again”, wouldn’t go down particularly well with the league. Id have thought during conversations with the Gov or PHE, reporting accurately Covid numbers would figure quite high up. The only falsification they can really get away with is non vaccinated players being in contact with positive people. That’s pretty hard to disprove.

I guess the issue is with injuries, but they’re really subjective. The tears and pulls are easy to prove, but knocks and slight strains pretty impossible because players will play through them. How can a doctor tell someone with a “knock” he’s fit to play, If he says he isn’t? 

 

Hmm. Anyone who was unvaccinated could claim that they had been in contact with someone who had succumbed to Covid and they would then need to isolate for seven days. Impossible to prove or disprove.

[tajjuk]

I also feel this is another example of the professional game be even more distanced from the amateur game thousands are playing every week. I am sure loads of us have been involved in games where we've had fulfil the fixture with 10 or someone's kid brother or aging dad has had to be emergency signed on to be on the bench because the team had a bare eleven. 

What's this 13 players nonsense, I bet if you said the clubs had to play if they had at least 10 players then suddenly they'd find some players. 

[badgerx16]

Will the postponed midweek games from this week be on Amazon as they should originally have been ?

[SaintBobby]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Will the postponed midweek games from this week be on Amazon as they should originally have been ?

Yep, apparently so.

[SaintBobby]

4 hours ago, Chez said:

I know there is a lot of luck involved, but perhaps teams with lots of injuries should not be rewarded with the opportunity to postpone. It's maybe up to teams to sign younger players, players that aren't injury prone and then maximise their fitness and manage game time etc. The best form of ability is availability. 

Obviously illness, COVID-19 and the connected protocols are a different matter, but shouldn't this be viewed separately from injuries?

If one team has 10 players out with injuries and one with COVID, should that be seen as the same as a team with say 2 injuries and 9 with COVID?

Yeah, but as you say, it's the law that is the problem here, not the game.

Because the state have treated Covid-Omicron differently to any other affliction, it's legally barring players from competing. In all other circumstances, players carry on with a "very slight knock" or a "bit of the sniffles". That's illegal with regard to this current minor affliction.

 

[Kenilworthy]

There is an obvious date for this game - Saturday January 29th. That has been scheduled as the "winter break" for the Premier League. But Newcastle are already having a nice winter break and playing then is far less disruptive than a midweek fixture.

[Minsk]

14 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said:

There is an obvious date for this game - Saturday January 29th. That has been scheduled as the "winter break" for the Premier League. But Newcastle are already having a nice winter break and playing then is far less disruptive than a midweek fixture.

Disagree. The best date would be Wednesday 5th January. Failing that Tuesday 18th January.

[Kenilworthy]

4 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Disagree. The best date would be Wednesday 5th January. Failing that Tuesday 18th January.

Suspect we will need to keep Jan 18 clear to play the Swansea game if it does not go ahead on Saturday

[farawaysaint]

This thread consists at us whining at Newcastle and the Newcastle thread consists of them whining at us.

football family at it’s best 🥰

Edited 2 January, 2022 by farawaysaint

[Jimmy_D]

11 minutes ago, farawaysaint said:

This thread consists at us whining at Newcastle and the Newcastle thread consists of them whining at us.

football family at it’s best 🥰

Meanwhile Newcastle didn’t play today and no-one could tell the difference

[macca155]

5 hours ago, Minsk said:

Disagree. The best date would be Wednesday 5th January. Failing that Tuesday 18th January.

Problem is the Everton match comes first. They won't touch the winter break either. Bet big clubs have tours in Asia organised.

[Turkish]

According to the athletic we asked for clarity on who was missing all the PL came back with was Newcastle could not field a team. 
 

here is article of anyone wants to read it

https://theathletic.com/3044478/2022/01/01/southampton-are-going-to-extremes-to-cut-covid-19-risk-so-postponement-frustration-is-understandable/

Edited 2 January, 2022 by Turkish

[Toadhall Saint]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

According to the athletic we asked for clarity on who was missing all the PL came back with was Newcastle could not field a team. 

Interesting. A reasonable question met with an unreasonable response.

[eurosaint]

11 minutes ago, Turkish said:

According to the athletic we asked for clarity on who was missing all the PL came back with was Newcastle could not field a team. 

Without transparency there will always be doubts about the credibility of the whole system ! The cynic in me thinks that there is something to hide …

[woodsaint1]

Players weighing in on the argument now lol. Hope we smash them when the fixture comes around

[Dry Toast]

Newcastle playing this as any right thinking owner would. Said by at least one poster earlier in this thread that the owners don't have a plan. It's exactly why Howe was appointed, in my view. If they go down he's the guy to get them straight back up, with all the millions they will throw at that. Achieve that and five months into the premier league, when all might not be going to plan then sack him and a top manager comes in. Pretty sure all parties will be well aware of the plan that the multi billionaires have.

[tajjuk]

Times saying Botman is going to turn them down, hopefully more will follow and they fail in most of their targets. Seems only Trippier is interested because he liked playing under Howe at Burnley. 

If they go down that route they can have a nice squad of ex-Burnley and ex-Bournemouth players ready for the Championship. 

[Reggie Dunlop]

Wonder what Newcastles team sheet will look like this weekend?

[VectisSaint]

20 hours ago, macca155 said:

Problem is the Everton match comes first. They won't touch the winter break either. Bet big clubs have tours in Asia organised.

Not at all, nothing to say games have to be rearranged in the order they should have been played. Bear in mind Everton have 2 games that were called off before their Newcastle one (Leicester and Burnley). PL usually just try and get them rescheduled as quickly as possible to avoid further problems down the road. Reckon we will be told new date this week and it will be in January. 

[HarvSFC]

Trippier would have got early odds on his move to Newcastle too.

[SaintTex]

the reality is no one (the media) cares about a tiff between the 14th and 19th place team.

it's all about whether City has the title wrapped up and who is going to get the 4th European spot at this point.

 

[The Fish]

I can understand the frustration, but in addition to injuries, we do have a COVID outbreak at the club which has taken the number of available players below the thresh hold. 

I also understand that the now suddenly rich Newcastle United, with their awful owners are going to be the villains going forward. So we're going to have to get used to receiving more criticism than Burnley, for example.

End of the day we have followed the same rules that apply to everybody else. And if injuries to Manquillo and Clark had taken us below the thresh hold, there wouldn't be such a fuss. 

 

[Toadhall Saint]

24 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I can understand the frustration, but in addition to injuries, we do have a COVID outbreak at the club which has taken the number of available players below the thresh hold. 

I also understand that the now suddenly rich Newcastle United, with their awful owners are going to be the villains going forward. So we're going to have to get used to receiving more criticism than Burnley, for example.

End of the day we have followed the same rules that apply to everybody else. And if injuries to Manquillo and Clark had taken us below the thresh hold, there wouldn't be such a fuss. 

 

I don’t blame you lot - it’s the PL that put the current rules in place. Injuries are not covid.

[The Fish]

41 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

I don’t blame you lot - it’s the PL that put the current rules in place. Injuries are not covid.

No, they're not. But if COVID hadn't further reduced our available squad, we would have to fulfill the fixture with kids, right? So, it's not injuries that've meant the fixture cannot be completed, it's the pandemic. 

 

If ASM and Wilson had both 'limped off' in the 95th minute with 'knocks'. I'd understand the frustration, but they're not faking the injuries. 

[Toadhall Saint]

39 minutes ago, The Fish said:

No, they're not. But if COVID hadn't further reduced our available squad, we would have to fulfill the fixture with kids, right? So, it's not injuries that've meant the fixture cannot be completed, it's the pandemic. 

 

If ASM and Wilson had both 'limped off' in the 95th minute with 'knocks'. I'd understand the frustration, but they're not faking the injuries. 

I’m not saying they are but then I’m of the opinion that if you cannot fulfill the fixture you forfeit the game/points. If the PL had not changed the rules I’m pretty sure the game would have gone ahead as ours against Man U did last season.

[The Fish]

3 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

I’m not saying they are but then I’m of the opinion that if you cannot fulfill the fixture you forfeit the game/points. If the PL had not changed the rules I’m pretty sure the game would have gone ahead as ours against Man U did last season.

You'd rather be gifted 3pts, than compete in a match?

[Mr Nimbus]

1 minute ago, The Fish said:

You'd rather be gifted 3pts, than compete in a match?

It's not "being gifted" though is it? It would be a punishment for Newcastle being unable to complete the fixture.

If there was some transparency around the split of injured players/COVID that would help.