Russell Martin

[Fabrice29]

8 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

THB, Bree, Manning weren't with us last year. Neither was Holgate when he played.

Stephens, Badnarek and KWP i'll give you, but not the others.

 

6 minutes ago, Block41 Saint said:

Most teams in the league would love to have Bednarek/THB with Downes sitting infront. If it isn't a manager thing then explain why his other teams were shite at keeping the ball out the net too? 

I just think defending your box is a mentality thing. Ralph, Jones, Selles, Martin, the next guy, they can all drum it into them all week but it actually takes someone to take responsibility and do it on the pitch and I'm not sure we have enough that are willing to do it really. Doesn't matter what level they are at, doesn't matter who the opposition is, doesn't matter what "system" they are told to play they have proven they will switch off occasionally over the years. Yes, there's some new ones, yes they have other qualities and yes the new ones can be put down to Martin I suppose but it's a collective thing and I'm not sure it's there or really has been for years. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, SambaMaverick said:

This guy is the biggest fanny going and he needs to fuck off back to Brighton and run a tea shop, 

Fuck me, can you imagine it. The waitresses would take so long passing the tea pot to each other, it’ll be stone cold by the time it reaches your table. 

[CB Fry]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

I just think defending your box is a mentality thing. Ralph, Jones, Selles, Martin, the next guy, they can all drum it into them all week but it actually takes someone to take responsibility and do it on the pitch and I'm not sure we have enough that are willing to do it really. Doesn't matter what level they are at, doesn't matter who the opposition is, doesn't matter what "system" they are told to play they have proven they will switch off occasionally over the years. Yes, there's some new ones, yes they have other qualities and yes the new ones can be put down to Martin I suppose but it's a collective thing and I'm not sure it's there or really has been for years. 

So basically because we're "Southampton" we don't have a defensive mentality regardless of who the players are, who the manager is or the league were are in or anything at all.

Sounds plausible.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

I just think defending your box is a mentality thing. Ralph, Jones, Selles, Martin, the next guy, they can all drum it into them all week but it actually takes someone to take responsibility and do it on the pitch and I'm not sure we have enough that are willing to do it really. Doesn't matter what level they are at, doesn't matter who the opposition is, doesn't matter what "system" they are told to play they have proven they will switch off occasionally over the years. Yes, there's some new ones, yes they have other qualities and yes the new ones can be put down to Martin I suppose but it's a collective thing and I'm not sure it's there or really has been for years. 

I don't think we can play on that one anymore. Since last season this is an entirely different club with new players everywhere.

new GK, new CB's, new LB's, new RB played today. New CM's. New wide players. All new mentality right there, 80% of the team.

Adams, Armstrongs, Bednarek they only remainders of the 'years and years of shit' you'd have to say. I don't think you can put it on 'scar tissue' or mental bollocks anymore, it's down to individual mistakes but also tactical approach and how we play. 

The counter argument to what you say is why have Leeds and Leicester not suffered the same fate? They couldn't defend for toffee last year, Leeds particularly leaked goals everywhere. They've got a pretty mean defence this season.

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't think we can play on that one anymore. Since last season this is an entirely different club with new players everywhere.

new GK, new CB's, new LB's, new RB played today. New CM's. New wide players. All new mentality right there, 80% of the team.

Adams, Armstrongs, Bednarek they only remainders of the 'years and years of shit' you'd have to say. I don't think you can put it on 'scar tissue' or mental bollocks anymore, it's down to individual mistakes but also tactical approach and how we play. 

The counter argument to what you say is why have Leeds and Leicester not suffered the same fate? They couldn't defend for toffee last year, Leeds particularly leaked goals everywhere. They've got a pretty mean defence this season.

No idea about Leeds or Leicester as I haven't watched them enough to know. I'm just looking at our defenders and seeing people who consistently don't defend the box, continue to not defend the box. 

3 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

So basically because we're "Southampton" we don't have a defensive mentality regardless of who the players are, who the manager is or the league were are in or anything at all.

Sounds plausible.

Nope, that's not what I said is it?

[Give it to Ron]

My problem with him is it’s like for like subs well as much as possible it’s never change of shape. It’s just shuffle of personnel.

Lets Take Saturday we are one up been pretty crap and need to win did we change to 4-4-2 , 4-5-1or even 3-5-2 nope just same formation that sees us vulnerable when giving ball away.

All could have Stephens in if he wants his leadership on pitch .

Edited April 1 by Give it to Ron

[danjosaint]

28 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

The personnel at the back for us has been conceding for fun for quite a few years now. Doesn't matter who the manager is. They consistently have shown themselves incapable of defending their box for years. It really isn't a manager thing.

Wtf is wrong with you, yes we conceded a lot..... in the Premier league with some of the best players in the world, we are in the championship conceding shed loads of goals by players who we would turn our nose up to,  RM is a dick and an arrogant prick, pretty much any manager could have us on play offs with this squad 

[Weston Super Saint]

33 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

THB, Bree, Manning weren't with us last year. Neither was Holgate when he played.

Stephens, Badnarek and KWP i'll give you, but not the others.

Bree was.

Stephens was at Bournemouth.

Edited April 1 by Weston Super Saint

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

Wtf is wrong with you, yes we conceded a lot..... in the Premier league with some of the best players in the world, we are in the championship conceding shed loads of goals by players who we would turn our nose up to,  RM is a dick and an arrogant prick, pretty much any manager could have us on play offs with this squad 

Maybe if you're a player and you keep conceding a lot, against 44 different teams, at 2 different levels and with 4 different managers, the problem might be you?

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

Maybe if you're a player and you keep conceding a lot, against 44 different teams, at 2 different levels and with 4 different managers, the problem might be you?

Maybe if your Swansea team, your MK Dons team & now your Southampton team can’t defend, the problem might be you. 

[Fabrice29]

Also maybe Martin has his faults as does his way of playing. Maybe both are right. Maybe also he's still quite clearly doing a good job and maybe despite everything it still doesn't require a "I've known all along Martin is a prick and I will jump on every opportunity to tell you so" meltdown. 

[Whitey Grandad]

33 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

I just think defending your box is a mentality thing. Ralph, Jones, Selles, Martin, the next guy, they can all drum it into them all week but it actually takes someone to take responsibility and do it on the pitch and I'm not sure we have enough that are willing to do it really. Doesn't matter what level they are at, doesn't matter who the opposition is, doesn't matter what "system" they are told to play they have proven they will switch off occasionally over the years. Yes, there's some new ones, yes they have other qualities and yes the new ones can be put down to Martin I suppose but it's a collective thing and I'm not sure it's there or really has been for years. 

Stephens 

[Suhari]

So he dropped KWP against Ipswich? It wasn't fitness.

I'm now operating under the hypothesis that RM is a bellend.

My intention is to undertake careful observations over the coming couple of weeks in order to prove/disprove this.

[Saint86]

8 minutes ago, Suhari said:

So he dropped KWP against Ipswich? It wasn't fitness.

I'm now operating under the hypothesis that RM is a bellend.

My intention is to undertake careful observations over the coming couple of weeks in order to prove/disprove this.

KWP has been poor in his recent games, and just back from injury layoff. We played well vs Ipswich with the side that started, so i don't think you can blame Martin for dropping KWP in all seriousness.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

It’s going to be so odd playing 8 (eight) dead rubber games until the playoffs.

I get what you say but these games are still very important. We need to win as many as possible to breed confidence going into the play-offs. We can't afford to coast through them just because the auto spots are out of reach.

[S-Clarke]

12 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

KWP has been poor in his recent games, and just back from injury layoff. We played well vs Ipswich with the side that started, so i don't think you can blame Martin for dropping KWP in all seriousness.

If KWP was fit and he was dropped then it's bat-shit-crazy, you cannot dress it up any other way. He's our best player, probably the best player in the league. He plays every game if he's 90%, 80% fit or if he's playing on 1 leg - he plays every game if he's available, simple as that really.

We're not good enough or strong enough to be playing rotation games with KWP. It's comical if that's what's happened.

Bree was pretty shit fwiw.

[Patches O Houlihan]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

That unbeaten run was good, but it doesn't really mean anything. Another new record for us though, the only team to go unbeaten for 5 months and not achieve anything. (that kind of suggests there were too many draws mixed in tbf).

It's not been a bad season by any stretch, but ultimately we've failed on the number 1 objective which was auto promotion. Winning the playoffs is the second route to it, so that will remain open...but we're incapable of keeping clean sheets against any relatively decent side, so we're going to need to outscore everyone in the playoffs by some margin - not sure it's sustainable or doable. We'll see.

The frustration for me this season is that we caught up at Christmas through to the end of Jan - that run brought us right into the mix. We used the window to add PL quality in Brooks to the side, didn't lose anyone (bar Charly) and we looked set to give it a good go to the death. But since February we have absolutely bollocksed it in the worst way I could have ever imagined. I knew we'd lose a game again this season, but we've dropped so many points in the last 8 weeks which has killed our season dead before the run-in had a chance to start. We did all the hard work and then lost the plot. Certainly need to understand WTF happened during February to derail us as badly as we have been.

Was Wilcox sensibly advising RM, and then the wheels have fallen off since he went on gardening leave?

[rallyboy]

We've just not been good enough and the surrendered points have been suicidal - taking one from six this weekend is appalling, playing the whole season without a proper centre forward has been insane.

The table doesn't lie, we've been destined for the play-offs for weeks now.

Much work needed for that not to turn into the final missed opportunity of a season of missed opportunities.

[Patches O Houlihan]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

THB, Bree, Manning weren't with us last year. Neither was Holgate when he played.

Stephens, Badnarek and KWP i'll give you, but not the others.

Mad Nate signed Bree in January

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

I just think defending your box is a mentality thing. Ralph, Jones, Selles, Martin, the next guy, they can all drum it into them all week but it actually takes someone to take responsibility and do it on the pitch and I'm not sure we have enough that are willing to do it really. Doesn't matter what level they are at, doesn't matter who the opposition is, doesn't matter what "system" they are told to play they have proven they will switch off occasionally over the years. Yes, there's some new ones, yes they have other qualities and yes the new ones can be put down to Martin I suppose but it's a collective thing and I'm not sure it's there or really has been for years. 

There's some truth in this. For example watch Adam Armstrong for the Ipswich equaliser which was a pivotal goal. He is the nearest player to the goalscorer yet takes no responsibility in going to mark him. Had he done such a fundamental basic thing Ipswich would not have scored. I get that he's not a defender but, as an attacker, you'd think he'd be far more aware of the danger but he seemed completely oblivious. I would hope that sort of dereliction to duty is highlighted in no uncertain terms during the post match debrief. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Mad Nate signed Bree in January

I don't really count him as a player from last season, he didn't play for us last season bar 1 or 2 fleeting moments.

Edited April 1 by S-Clarke

[Andrew Watson]

Please leave with JW, Mr Martin.

[Sheaf Saint]

5 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Was Wilcox sensibly advising RM, and then the wheels have fallen off since he went on gardening leave?

This is an interesting thought.

The news of Man U's approach to Wilcox broke on 15th Feb, 2 days after our unbeaten run came to an end at Bristol city. The Hudds game where we survived an almighty scare was just before that.

It's not just that our form has fallen off since then, but some of RM's lineups have been questionable to say the least, and our defensive record has gone from being excellent (<0.5 GA per game between October to Jan) to horrendous (>2 GA per game since the Hudds game). 

Certainly the timing checks out.

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

This is an interesting thought.

The news of Man U's approach to Wilcox broke on 15th Feb, 2 days after our unbeaten run came to an end at Bristol city. The Hudds game where we survived an almighty scare was just before that.

It's not just that our form has fallen off since then, but some of RM's lineups have been questionable to say the least, and our defensive record has gone from being excellent (<0.5 GA per game between October to Jan) to horrendous (>2 GA per game since the Hudds game). 

Certainly the timing checks out.

I love these theories 

I remember the days when Lowe was picking the team. So did Cortese, Reed and the senior players. We’ve also had Rohl, Black, Kelvin Davis were all responsible for everything good or bad depending on your perspective 

could it just be that Martins in game management is poor which is why we throw away so many games late on. From the start he doesn’t know what his best team is and is trying to include some senior players which appears to be to the detriment of the team at the moment?

[Galway saint]

we’ve conceded 22 goals in the last ten games, if my maths is correct - that’s pretty abysmal and we need to address that if we want to go up.

should also have kept fraser on today as he is so effective and gets us up the pitch at pace

forgot we spent £10million on Edozie until the commentator reminded me. Along with Charles, Larios, Bazunu that’s some business Man City did. 

 

 

 

 

[Fabrice29]

14 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I love these theories 

I remember the days when Lowe was picking the team. So did Cortese, Reed and the senior players. We’ve also had Rohl, Black, Kelvin Davis were all responsible for everything good or bad depending on your perspective 

could it just be that Martins in game management is poor which is why we throw away so many games late on. From the start he doesn’t know what his best team is and is trying to include some senior players which appears to be to the detriment of the team at the moment?

Isn’t there some stat around showing our subs have scored more goals than anyone else’s in the league by quite a bit? We’ve won/drawn games late on too you know. 
 

Side note: I know online brings out the worst in people but it really is insane the pile on Martin gets on here. Feels so out of touch with most people you talk to at games. We’re miles better off the pitch and on it than we were last year, at worst we’ll have 3 games to reach our aims at the end of the season, just let it play out, not every moment of every game has to be conclusive evidence of something. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Isn’t there some stat around showing our subs have scored more goals than anyone else’s in the league by quite a bit? We’ve won/drawn games late on too you know. 
 

Side note: I know online brings out the worst in people but it really is insane the pile on Martin gets on here. Feels so out of touch with most people you talk to at games. We’re miles better off the pitch and on it than we were last year, at worst we’ll have 3 games to reach our aims at the end of the season, just let it play out, not every moment of every game has to be conclusive evidence of something. 

Out of interest, how do you justifu your  love in for Martin when it seems he dropped KWP? Ok, so he didn't play that great on Friday, but to drop the best right back in the league because he wasn't at his best for one game, is horse shit. Others have had shit games this season but have still retained their starting place next game.

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

KWP has been poor in his recent games, and just back from injury layoff. We played well vs Ipswich with the side that started, so i don't think you can blame Martin for dropping KWP in all seriousness.

If the manager honestly thought Bree was a better bet and it wasn't fitness related then I'll absolutely blame Martin. Mental decision (in all seriousness).

[Fabrice29]

5 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Out of interest, how do you justifu your  love in for Martin when it seems he dropped KWP? Ok, so he didn't play that great on Friday, but to drop the best right back in the league because he wasn't at his best for one game, is horse shit. Others have had shit games this season but have still retained their starting place next game.

I’ve no idea what the reasons are for dropping KWP. Maybe it’s not wanting him to be exposed to Moore at the back post, maybe they had a fall out, maybe KWP missed out on the ‘Stephen’s has to play so who misses out roulette’ this time. I don’t justify my ‘love’ for Martin based on one decision. That’s not sane, healthy or plausible given that as fans we’ll never ever know the reason for every thing.
 

Like I said, not every little thing has to be conclusive evidence of something. 

[FarehamSaintJames]

It’s going to be a very different squad for him to pick from next season.

[teamsaint]

Match after match …....” The goals we conceded were rubbish”. 

Maybe the next 8 games will help him sort this out. Would be nice. 

Edited April 1 by teamsaint

[bugenhagen]

16 minutes ago, teamsaint said:

Match after match …....” The goals we conceded were rubbish”. 

Maybe the next 8 games will help him sort this out. Would be nice. 

That sums up what pretty much every manager says after conceding...

There is only one cure for a sloppy defence...

 

 

 

more cowbell! 

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

If the manager honestly thought Bree was a better bet and it wasn't fitness related then I'll absolutely blame Martin. Mental decision (in all seriousness).

Technically Bree played the last 2 games, so KWP was dropped for Stephens.

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

Isn’t there some stat around showing our subs have scored more goals than anyone else’s in the league by quite a bit? We’ve won/drawn games late on too you know. 
 

Side note: I know online brings out the worst in people but it really is insane the pile on Martin gets on here. Feels so out of touch with most people you talk to at games. We’re miles better off the pitch and on it than we were last year, at worst we’ll have 3 games to reach our aims at the end of the season, just let it play out, not every moment of every game has to be conclusive evidence of something. 

You again seem to have forgotten that last year we were in the strongest league in the world, up against some of the best players in the world.

We are now in a league full of dross, with a squad that is better than all but 2 other teams (the other 2 that came down with us).

We're fourth in a three horse race, 11 points behind a team who came up from League 1. A decent manager would have us up there competing with Leeds and Leicester for the autos. Instead we have about a 25% chance of going up through the playoffs. And if we meet Ipswich in the final they would be favourites, having a far superior manager.

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

3 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Like I said, not every little thing has to be conclusive evidence of something. 

I’ve come to the conclusion that the football club has had a log-in for some time now that certain staff can use to come on here to put us idiot supporters right….

[hypochondriac]

The positive from Martin's point of view is that all the good defensive players will leave next year so he can play Stephens as often as he wants. 

[Give it to Ron]

7 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

I’ve no idea what the reasons are for dropping KWP. Maybe it’s not wanting him to be exposed to Moore at the back post, maybe they had a fall out, maybe KWP missed out on the ‘Stephen’s has to play so who misses out roulette’ this time. I don’t justify my ‘love’ for Martin based on one decision. That’s not sane, healthy or plausible given that as fans we’ll never ever know the reason for every thing.
 

Like I said, not every little thing has to be conclusive evidence of something. 

You don’t see why there is a pile on when he refuses to see our problems conceding? Isn’t it his job to improve that?

When was the last time we changed formation to protect a lead rather than just personnel?

Going forward we are great but can’t defend for toffee I am surprised as didn’t we bring in Calderwood for help in that? We are so open and a switch ball beats us every time and not addressed that’s on the manager.

[Sunglasses Ron]

8 hours ago, saintant said:

I get what you say but these games are still very important. We need to win as many as possible to breed confidence going into the play-offs. We can't afford to coast through them just because the auto spots are out of reach.

Oh yes, they are indeed very important. Just watch us win them all now we don’t have a realistic chance of automatic promotion.

[CB Fry]

7 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Like I said, not every little thing has to be conclusive evidence of something. 

Nice try from someone absolving Martin of any responsibility of our defensive frialities because we've always been like that since Hasenhuttl or something something something.

I've never seen you credit Ralph or our history when we do something well, though? That's always entirely down to Russell Martin, isn't it?

Funny, really.

 

[Mr X]

Question if we don't go up via the play offs which is looking like a pipe dream at the moment, does Martin deserve another crack at It?

Not that people are going to be queuing up to come here, he is definitely our level plus we probably can't afford compensation anyway 

[Miltonaggro]

4 hours ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

I’ve come to the conclusion that the football club has had a log-in for some time now that certain staff can use to come on here to put us idiot supporters right….

There’s three or four in all probability. Another thing SFC aren’t particularly good at. 

[wild-saint]

9 hours ago, Saint86 said:

KWP has been poor in his recent games, and just back from injury layoff. We played well vs Ipswich with the side that started, so i don't think you can blame Martin for dropping KWP in all seriousness.

Oh my you were clearly asleep in your chair when the three goals went in all down our right hand side. You my friend are a wind up merchant, Russel Martin or a fucking clueless idiot, which one is it? 

[James]

32 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Question if we don't go up via the play offs which is looking like a pipe dream at the moment, does Martin deserve another crack at It?

Not that people are going to be queuing up to come here, he is definitely our level plus we probably can't afford compensation anyway 

If he can’t get us up with this team then I doubt he can. I’d move on personally. 

[Fabrice29]

44 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Nice try from someone absolving Martin of any responsibility of our defensive frialities because we've always been like that since Hasenhuttl or something something something.

I've never seen you credit Ralph or our history when we do something well, though? That's always entirely down to Russell Martin, isn't it?

Funny, really.

 

I’ll give credit to Ralph for getting Stephen’s and Bednarek out and criticise Martin for his loyalty to them fwiw.

Anyway, you lot are insane. Some of you need to enjoy it more, it’s actually quite fun when you’re not desperate to be outraged by the manager. Let it play out and waste your summer being angry about it if we don’t get promoted.

[obelisk]

Weren't the defensive frailties of Martin's system identifiable as long ago as the game at Reading? And here they still are.

Eight games now in which to prepare for the play-offs. First job will be to make Saints hard to beat. I'd start with dropping Bazunu but I suspect Martin will keep on doing the same thing in some forlorn hope that it'll result in a different outcome.

[Give it to Ron]

26 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I’ll give credit to Ralph for getting Stephen’s and Bednarek out and criticise Martin for his loyalty to them fwiw.

Anyway, you lot are insane. Some of you need to enjoy it more, it’s actually quite fun when you’re not desperate to be outraged by the manager. Let it play out and waste your summer being angry about it if we don’t get promoted.

You enjoy us conceding for fun yet the manager doesn’t change it and we are the insane one?

He changes back four to accommodate one player you refuse to see that and we are insane?

I love our forward play but a team is built on defence.

Im not desperate to be outraged but his tactics and lack of ability to see what’s wrong makes it hard not to be.

i don’t want him replacing just somehow realise what’s obvious to most bar those that refuse to see it!

Edited April 2 by Give it to Ron

[EBS1980]

Anyone got the stats to hand of how we have performed when 3 centre backs have been shoe horned into the team? Feels like PPG is quiet low and goals conceded has gone up?!

[Kenilworthy]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

Question if we don't go up via the play offs which is looking like a pipe dream at the moment, does Martin deserve another crack at It?

Not that people are going to be queuing up to come here, he is definitely our level plus we probably can't afford compensation anyway 

the one thing we can be sure of is that it is very unlikely that another team will want to take him. I think it would be reasonable to give him a second season but if we are not looking set for automatic promotion by the end of the year he will be gone.

[Midfield_General]

9 hours ago, Galway saint said:

forgot we spent £10million on Edozie until the commentator reminded me. Along with Charles, Larios, Bazunu that’s some business Man City did. 

The transfers engineered by recruitment guru Joe Shields, had just who joined from Man City, and who fucked off again pretty much straightaway afterwards? 

I'd suggest that Joe probably did some pretty good business himself around that time. 

*Cough* kickback *Cough*

(Allegedly)

[coalman]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

The positive from Martin's point of view is that all the good defensive players will leave next year so he can play Stephens as often as he wants. 

Don't forget our only defensive midfielder too. We'll be able to field a whole team of brave attacking talent. And no striker.