Everton - Update: Docked 10 points

[Saint86]

Telegraph reporting that they're now open to legal challenges as well. So even if they don't get relegated, they're probably fairly stuffed regardless. Excellent.

[Pamplemousse]

6 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

They'll be relegated on the last day, spend the next month appealing and the day before the fixtures are announced they'll announce the appeal has been successful and whoever survived on the last day will be sent down instead. 

Something like this happened in Ligue 2 in France this season and it was a total mess.

[Dark Munster]

6 hours ago, SNSUN said:

Leicester should go in all guns blazing for a pay out - they're going up this season anyway and a ton of money from Everton would help rebuild the squad they had to decimate because of their relegation. 

That's what I was thinking, and felt bad for them. But then I remembered about 20 years ago Leicester screwed many clubs and businesses over with their unpunished administration (in fact that egregious act instigated the now standard points penalties for going into administration). And we all know how well it went for them going unpunished when they went back up and won the league and cup. 

So screw Leicester. Karma's a bitch.

[EssEffCee]

Leicester also broke financial regulations to get promoted in 2014, without which they'd have never won the PL two years later.

So hardly in a position to bitch and moan too much. What goes around comes around and all that.

[wadesmith]

We were so bad last season Everton are suing us.

[Suhari]

Ha!

Out of the country and only just seeing this. Tragic, tragic news for the pioneers of bus-shelters-by-a-pitch. I feel for them. Terrible. Just awful.

I am in no way pissing myself laughing. Nope. Honest.

[CB Fry]

The only thing I am absolutely sure of is that Everton won't get relegated this season.

[Osvaldorama]

I remember when the PL said “it’s unfair to punish the fans” by giving the big six a points deduction. 

I hate Everton a lot, but I still can’t wrap my head around such a big punishment for such a minor crime, when we have seen way worse things go unpunished.
 

It properly stinks tbh. 

[Dark Munster]

26 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

I remember when the PL said “it’s unfair to punish the fans” by giving the big six a points deduction. 

I hate Everton a lot, but I still can’t wrap my head around such a big punishment for such a minor crime, when we have seen way worse things go unpunished.
 

It properly stinks tbh. 

Yeah but it's not much of punishment. They are only 2 points from safety with the bulk of the season still to go, and with 4 terrible teams around them.

[austsaint]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

The only thing I am absolutely sure of is that Everton won't get relegated this season.

Yes, they're lucky that Sheffield U., Luton and Burnley are keeping them company with support from Bournemouth.    If this had happened last season it could have been different.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

"But this fanbase is like no other because in the face of adversity we stand up like no-one else. We will back the team and club through absolutely everything"

From the fanbase that turned on the club with protests against the board not long ago.

[JRM]

6 hours ago, austsaint said:

Yes, they're lucky that Sheffield U., Luton and Burnley are keeping them company with support from Bournemouth.    If this had happened last season it could have been different.

Yep, Everton will portray themselves as battling against the odds in the face of adversity but really they'll still stay up quite comfortably I think,  some really poor sides this season 

[benjii]

11 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

That's what I was thinking, and felt bad for them. But then I remembered about 20 years ago Leicester screwed many clubs and businesses over with their unpunished administration (in fact that egregious act instigated the now standard points penalties for going into administration). And we all know how well it went for them going unpunished when they went back up and won the league and cup. 

So screw Leicester. Karma's a bitch.

Yes, and they cheated the Championship rules the year they got promoted to the Prem but Prem has no jurisdiction over that.

Fuck Leicester.

[david in sweden]

On 25/10/2023 at 17:45, VectisSaint said:

At least Bill Kenwright won't be around to see it. Strange this has come out on the day after he passed, for all of the problems with Everton he was a decent bloke, RIP.

Strange ?..well maybe, but as you wrote above : it was  ... ironic  / predictable  / or, just  a mark of respect ..to Kenwright who gave over

much of his life and likely no small portion of his wealth, attempting to stabilise the club, but without saving them from " the inevitable ". 

One wonders if Everton will manage to escape - yet again - from the relegation that has threatened for the last few seasons. 

[Whitey Grandad]

9 hours ago, CB Fry said:

The only thing I am absolutely sure of is that Everton won't get relegated this season.

Do you think the size of the penalty was set so as to make sure of this?

[Sheaf Saint]

27 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Do you think the size of the penalty was set so as to make sure of this?

It wouldn't surprise me at all. Last season, when the penalty should have been applied, a 10 point deduction would have seen them drop. But thanks to there being 3 truly shit teams up there this season, the PL can be seen to be doing something about the rule breaking without having to deal with the fallout of their action resulting a 'big' club like Everton being relegated.

The whole thing stinks.

[egg]

46 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

It wouldn't surprise me at all. Last season, when the penalty should have been applied, a 10 point deduction would have seen them drop. But thanks to there being 3 truly shit teams up there this season, the PL can be seen to be doing something about the rule breaking without having to deal with the fallout of their action resulting a 'big' club like Everton being relegated.

The whole thing stinks.

Yep. They've given Everton plenty of time to make up the points, and anyone impacted time for a tribunal appeal, etc. It's action, but action that ultimately won't serve as a punishment. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

3 hours ago, JRM said:

Yep, Everton will portray themselves as battling against the odds in the face of adversity but really they'll still stay up quite comfortably I think,  some really poor sides this season 

Dyche:

It's backs against the wall.

We'll fight together to get out of this crisis.

It will take a massive effort to achieve...  oh 3 points for our next win gets us clear of relegation...

[Bad Wolf]

16 hours ago, CB Fry said:

The only thing I am absolutely sure of is that Everton won't get relegated this season.

Or any other season. They'll never let that happen to the little media darlings.

[Badger]

On 17/11/2023 at 23:37, Osvaldorama said:

I remember when the PL said “it’s unfair to punish the fans” by giving the big six a points deduction. 

I hate Everton a lot, but I still can’t wrap my head around such a big punishment for such a minor crime, when we have seen way worse things go unpunished.
 

It properly stinks tbh. 

Inclined to agree, and I suspect if us, Bournemouth, Luton were to be made an example of it might have been -15 to begin with( perhaps reduced to -10 on appeal). Expect this might also be reduced to a more manageable-5 at some point to have no bearing on the final table.

But, it’s Everton we’re talking of, so like Spurs, or the skates, couldn’t  care how unjust or inequitable. In fact, the more the better, makes it even sweeter to watch. 

Edited 19 November, 2023 by Badger

[Badger]

Haven’t read the whole thread or seen the news this morning but was there a candle lit vigil overnight up there ?

 

[Saint_clark]

7 minutes ago, Badger said:

Haven’t read the whole thread or seen the news this morning but was there a candle lit vigil overnight up there ?

 

A fan group has raised nearly £30k to fund banners and other equipment to protest against this decision.

 

No, i'm not joking.

 

Everton fans raise more than £25,000 to protest 'disgraceful' Premier League points deduction - Liverpool Echo

Edited 19 November, 2023 by Saint_clark

[Badger]

10 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

A fan group has raised nearly £30k to fund banners and other equipment to protest against this decision.

 

No, i'm not joking.

 

Everton fans raise more than £25,000 to protest 'disgraceful' Premier League points deduction - Liverpool Echo

Good job it’s not a deprived area with social problems then and they can find money to spare.

Edited 19 November, 2023 by Badger

[Badger]

7 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

A fan group has raised nearly £30k to fund banners and other equipment to protest against this decision.

 

No, i'm not joking.

 

Everton fans raise more than £25,000 to protest 'disgraceful' Premier League points deduction - Liverpool Echo

You have to feel sorry for Liverpool, Klopp and their supporters in all this. I’m sure they feel the real victims as they no longer have a monopoly of being victims in their own city. 

[manji]

On 18/11/2023 at 06:23, Holmes_and_Watson said:

"But this fanbase is like no other because in the face of adversity we stand up like no-one else. We will back the team and club through absolutely everything"

From the fanbase that turned on the club with protests against the board not long ago.

Yeah they were even hurling abuse at the team when they were beating Bournemouth, Leicester were losing and they were guaranteed of staying up. Delusional twats.

[JRM]

On 17/11/2023 at 12:58, EssEffCee said:

Interested to see how long the appeal process takes. Surely it needs to be quite quickly as it'll be farcical if it gets to April time and it's still uncertain?

Either way I hope they stay up and think they will.

Nah come on , 1984 Highbury for that alone we could enjoy their relegation and subsequent financial implosion, I think they would also deserve it for the match fixing 1994 game v Wimbledon where Hans Segers had received sufficient payment to ensure a Toffees win and survival that day 

[die Mannyschaft]

Hilarious, football clubs pay far too much for players and wages. Fans fund this nonsense, so hope more clubs get points deduction,  50 points for City before the buy the title again and next 5 seasons. 

[Saint86]

23 hours ago, manji said:

Yeah they were even hurling abuse at the team when they were beating Bournemouth, Leicester were losing and they were guaranteed of staying up. Delusional twats.

Exactly this. Can't stand them and their sense of entitled victimhood. I was looking at their next 5 fixtures, quite concievable that they're rock bottom come Christmas. 

[Paulwantsapint81]

They could end up minus 19 after administration kicks in 

 

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67477429

MP and mayor take time out from solving pressing issues for a populist quick hit of "Waaah! Club punishment is bad."

Not much substance as to why they think it's bad. Or why the club, who all sign up to this, should not face punishment under current rules. Just toys being thrown about to impress Everton supporters.

One uses the incoming regulator as a stick to try and pressurise the premier League commission (Everton appeal pending, so a pathetic tactic). A regulator, that truly represented the spirit of football for the support of the game as a whole in communities, would consider relegating them for their blatant attempts to use covid to evade profitability and sustainability. That would really give them something to moan about.

[SotonianWill]

Realistically they should be relegated. They’ve been absolute sh*t for years now, and that’s with cheating. They’ll say it’s unfair on the fans who have had no fault in this matter, but what about the fans of the clubs who have already been relegated (who hadn’t cheated). Plus their fans are tw@ s. Nothing against Everton, but Everton are awful and I have everything against them. Hate them. 

[suewhistle]

39 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

They’ll say it’s unfair on the fans who have had no fault in this matter, but what about the fans of the clubs who have already been relegated (who hadn’t cheated).

Exactly this: there was an Everton fan's article in the paper I read (the usual moans), but unfortunately they didn't open it for comments as that would have been exactly what many other fans would have commented..

[Saint Keef]

I've hated Everton for many, many years now. In fact, for as long as I can remember.

The only problem is, it's so long ago, I can't actually remember why I started hating them in the first place!

My son is 35 now, but I do remember when he was old enough to "understand" football, I sat him down for that all important father to son chat. "Son, I don't mind who you grow up supporting, that is entirely a matter for you. But all I ask is, that it isn't Everton". 

And then for many years he told me he supported Man U.  Oh well!!!   And then when he must have been in his late teens I guess,  I remember he sat me down for that all important son to father chat. "Actually Dad, I have lied to you for many years. I couldn't bring myself to tell you. I actually support................The Saints. ".  He still comes to St Mary's with me when we are both able. Weirdly, I think he still hates Everton.

Edited 21 November, 2023 by Saint Keef
addition

[JRM]

8 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67477429

MP and mayor take time out from solving pressing issues for a populist quick hit of "Waaah! Club punishment is bad."

Not much substance as to why they think it's bad. Or why the club, who all sign up to this, should not face punishment under current rules. Just toys being thrown about to impress Everton supporters.

One uses the incoming regulator as a stick to try and pressurise the premier League commission (Everton appeal pending, so a pathetic tactic). A regulator, that truly represented the spirit of football for the support of the game as a whole in communities, would consider relegating them for their blatant attempts to use covid to evade profitability and sustainability. That would really give them something to moan about.

Wasn't there some financial corruption involving Liverpool Council and the new Everton stadium? 

Ironically I think we'd be doing Everton fans a favour helping to relegate them, think they'd love the Championship. 

Got to laugh at stories like this , MPs thinking they can influence the appeal. 

 

 

[Saint86]

10 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67477429

MP and mayor take time out from solving pressing issues for a populist quick hit of "Waaah! Club punishment is bad."

Not much substance as to why they think it's bad. Or why the club, who all sign up to this, should not face punishment under current rules. Just toys being thrown about to impress Everton supporters.

One uses the incoming regulator as a stick to try and pressurise the premier League commission (Everton appeal pending, so a pathetic tactic). A regulator, that truly represented the spirit of football for the support of the game as a whole in communities, would consider relegating them for their blatant attempts to use covid to evade profitability and sustainability. That would really give them something to moan about.

I think they're probably in deep shit tbh. If they weren't they'd just accept the punishment and move on quickly. They're wide open to some very heft legal cases from at least 3 clubs, which will cost them far more than the points deduction - incurring more ffp restrictions and jeopardising their future takeover and possible investment. I also wonder if the standard of the league around them might give them into a slightly false sense of security, but the reality is that their upcoming games are a bit tricky:

Manure (h) - 26th November

Forest (a) - 2nd December

Newcastle (h) - 7th December

Chelsea (h) - 10th December

Burnley (a) - 16th December

Spurs (a) - 23rd December

City (h) - 27th December.

They're going to have to beat Burnley and forest away. And if they don't beat forest, by the time that Burnley game comes around they could actually be under quite a lot of pressure.

You also might see some of the other clubs down there risking it a bit more (re transfers) in January given Everton are now right in the mix. I.e. the risk reward ratio favours spending a more now.

Annoyingly they do have a good manager for this kind of situation, but i still think they've got like a 40-50% chance of dropping.

 

Edited 21 November, 2023 by Saint86

[Fan The Flames]

8 hours ago, Saint Keef said:

I've hated Everton for many, many years now. In fact, for as long as I can remember.

The only problem is, it's so long ago, I can't actually remember why I started hating them in the first place!

My son is 35 now, but I do remember when he was old enough to "understand" football, I sat him down for that all important father to son chat. "Son, I don't mind who you grow up supporting, that is entirely a matter for you. But all I ask is, that it isn't Everton". 

And then for many years he told me he supported Man U.  Oh well!!!   And then when he must have been in his late teens I guess,  I remember he sat me down for that all important son to father chat. "Actually Dad, I have lied to you for many years. I couldn't bring myself to tell you. I actually support................The Saints. ".  He still comes to St Mary's with me when we are both able. Weirdly, I think he still hates Everton.

Is it from 1984 semi, I hated them for years after that, until very recently. Until I met two Everton fans where I live in Kent and both are good guys, this tempered my already dwindling hatred.

[rallyboy]

I suspect they're in more danger off the pitch than on it.

With awful teams at the bottom of the table I don't think they have genuine relegation worries, but if court cases started stacking up while they're trying to fund a stadium, that could destroy their already fragile business model.

 

[Verbal]

Investigation now widening to other clubs.  'Arry is so unlucky.

 

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

Apparently we will also be retrospectively investigated soon. The PL are unwilling to believe we invested so much money in so many shit players without some kind of kick-back to agents during our time in the division. A Premier League spokesman said “It’s inconceivable that one club can have been duped so many times in so few seasons. No board can be that crap. We have no option but to conclude some serious wedge was paid by agents to board members for these duds to all land at the same club.”