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Bristol City 3-1 Saints - Match Thread


Harry_SFC
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4 minutes ago, John B said:

But do you really think this squad is good enough to finish in the top 2

I do not think it has the quality of players that Adkins had and will struggle in the PL but they have done really well so far

SRL, Schneiderlin, Lallana at his peak, even Guly do Prado, Fonte, Cork, Kelvin Davis. No one of the quality of KWP, but the sum of all the parts was better than we have this season.

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2 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

I

SRL, Schneiderlin, Lallana at his peak, even Guly do Prado, Fonte, Cork, Kelvin Davis. No one of the quality of KWP, but the sum of all the parts was better than we have this season.

Worth remembering that the quality of the top teams is better too. We have some obvious weaknesses at LB and cm without Downes. We also have no one like Lambert and when Armstrong has an off day he stinks the place out. 

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It has been such an amazing run we've been on. Going 25 games unbeaten - Absolutely incredible. Tonight was just a blip. We need to bounce back on Friday night. We missed Downes massively tonight, hoping he's back for Friday. 

Edited by davefizzy14
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11 minutes ago, John B said:

But do you really think this squad is good enough to finish in the top 2

I do not think it has the quality of players that Adkins had and will struggle in the PL but they have done really well so far

I do, yes. I think we've got a small squad, but if they are all available then we are amongst the best 3 in this league. Going unbeaten for 25 games is as much confirmation as you can get that we're good enough to finish Top 2. What I liked with Adkins side was our midfield, Cork, Chaplow, Morgan, Hammond - lots of bite and aggression there, this year we only really have one player who can provide that role.

In attack (wide area's etc), we are stocked and the options we have are a step up on what we had available under Adkins.

Defeats will happen, Leicester lost a couple of games, Leeds had a wobble during December - it happens. Just like our unbeaten run wasn't going to go on forever, neither is Leeds winning every week. Lots of twists and turns, but we've pulled ourselves into a position to be in there until the end. My feeling is that there will be a gap between the Top 3 and the rest come the end of the season, just need to make sure it's in the right order for us.

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31 minutes ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Been saying all season that we wouldn't go up automatically and that the wheels would start to come off mid-feb

Where have you been saying that? You've posted 5 times about the team's performances since September and not mentioned it once... It's almost as if you don't post much when we're not losing.... ;)

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15 minutes ago, Micky said:

Saturday was a game against a relegation threatened team who are struggling to stay in this division, a team who we would be expected to beat comfortably by two goals, but we made bloody hard work of it. Totally different to playing a promotion pushing team for one of the richest prizes in football.  

true but saturday was still ‘gung ho’ and the sort of intensity you need to win the play offs so I don’t think we can say they cant up the tempo. don’t get me wrong tonight was poor and flat but this is a good team, albeit one clearly heavily reliant on downes to make it tick 

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1 minute ago, trousers said:

Where have you been saying that? You've posted 5 times about the team's performances since September and not mentioned it once... It's almost as if you don't post much when we're not losing.... ;)

They're all coming out tonight aren't they! Just like they've been waiting....must have been frustrating having to wait as long as they have.

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34 minutes ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Been saying all season that we wouldn't go up automatically and that the wheels would start to come off mid-feb, although I was thinking WBA, Not Bristol City. 

tonight sums up why I don't think Saints will get automatic promotion. They've always got it in the to fuck up spectacularly. 

No coincidence that our worst performances happen when SA doesn't start. sta

 

 

 

Of course you did.

Also interesting you haven’t posted on a match thread since the 1-1 at Watford. And before then… the 1-1 draw against Rotherham. 

Such a shame you’ve missed all the wins.

 

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9 minutes ago, saintant said:

The spine of the team was broken with the loss of Downes and, to a lesser extent, Adams. It showed and we were guilty of continually giving the ball away cheaply high up the pitch and allowing them to break on us quickly. We need a reaction on Friday.

Adam Armstrong cannot play as a central striker. He's just so ineffective there. 

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3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Where have you been saying that? You've posted 5 times about the team's performances since September and not mentioned it once... It's almost as if you don't post much when we're not losing.... ;)

You beat me to it!

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4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Worth remembering that the quality of the top teams is better too. We have some obvious weaknesses at LB and cm without Downes. We also have no one like Lambert and when Armstrong has an off day he stinks the place out. 

Indeed, talking of stinking the place out we did that  in the Prem last season. So far adrift most would have looked at us this season and had us Norwiching or Watfording or for that matter Bristol Citying, and we’re not.

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31 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Does anyone watch enough of Cam Bragg to say whether he'd be a genuine option if Downes is out? I doubt Martin would consider it but Smallbone really can't play that role and Charles seems to be getting worse game by game. 

I've not seen a lot of him but I touted him as an option in the run up to today's game. Yes, he's inexperienced, but from what I've seen in his cameo appearances this season, technically he seems the closest match in our squad to the type of player that Downes is. 

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5 minutes ago, trousers said:

Where have you been saying that? You've posted 5 times about the team's performances since September and not mentioned it once... It's almost as if you don't post much when we're not losing.... ;)

Man’s a fucking twat

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8 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

I

SRL, Schneiderlin, Lallana at his peak, even Guly do Prado, Fonte, Cork, Kelvin Davis. No one of the quality of KWP, but the sum of all the parts was better than we have this season.

We could have done with a Schneiderlin, Cork, Wanyama or a Romeu tonight!   As many feared, without Downes, our central midfield was hopelessly exposed tonight.    Charles was poor, hasn't played a lot of Football and clearly isn't yet ready for a holding midfield responsibility.    Yet Smallbone was equally as dire.  The lack of a clinical striker and the complete reliance on a fit Downes to secure the midfield looms as a big threat to automatic promotion.

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3 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

Indeed, talking of stinking the place out we did that  in the Prem last season. So far adrift most would have looked at us this season and had us Norwiching or Watfording or for that matter Bristol Citying, and we’re not.

Not sure I agree with you there. 

Kwp 

THB 

Bednarek 

Downes 

Sulemana 

Armstrong 

Brooks 

Is an absolute embarrassment of riches at this level. I was expecting playoffs minimum at the start of the season and it looks like we've delivered that. 

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We seem to struggle when teams press us hard and attack with pace.

We had no urgency in midfield with Charles and Smallbone in there and the amount of stray passes was ridiculous.

Let’s hope Downes is back Friday and we can get back on track.

A win there is now essential and will be absolutely massive in the grand scheme of things.

 

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Just now, austsaint said:

We could have done with a Schneiderlin, Cork, Wanyama or a Romeu tonight!   As many feared, without Downes, our central midfield was hopelessly exposed tonight.    Charles was poor, hasn't played a lot of Football and clearly isn't yet ready for a holding midfield responsibility.    Yet Smallbone was equally as dire.  The lack of a clinical striker and the complete reliance on a fit Downes to secure the midfield looms as a big threat to automatic promotion.

People forget or never witnessed that both Cork and Schneiderlin were holding players. We’re way  more lightweight than we were then.

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39 minutes ago, Micky said:

I really cannot see this team handling the pressure of the play offs, totally different type of football required, which I don't think suits us at all. We have an almost nonchalant slow build up style where the playoffs demand a bit of gun ho. Look at today, 3 nil down, 10 to go, and we're knocking it around at the back like there's not a problem. 

You’re right, may as well write off this season now. Then write off next season too, as we’ll lose most of our players. In fact, we’re probably now consigned to be another Stoke / Swansea for the next 10 years. Might even end up going bust.

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36 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We've just gone 25 games unbeaten though, it wasn't going to last forever. It's a bit daft to assume that Leeds are going to win every single game up until May, they're not - there will be twists and turns all the way. This is just a bump in the road.

Success will be born out of how we react to these sort of set backs - we certainly reacted well to the last one.

I don’t think Leeds will win every game but I do think it’s likely they will get enough to get automatic based on their form and us having Brom, Leicester, Ipswich and Leeds away. 

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3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Not sure I agree with you there. 

Kwp 

THB 

Bednarek 

Downes 

Sulemana 

Armstrong 

Brooks 

Is an absolute embarrassment of riches at this level. I was expecting playoffs minimum at the start of the season and it looks like we've delivered that. 

Sulemana has never been anything other than f**king useless for us. Our record signing and we look a far better Championship team when he’s injured. If someone offers half what we paid, next summer, I’d bite their hand off. £22m Danny N’Guessan.

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Real bunch of wets out tonight, probably the same keyboard warriors that criticised on Saturday when a few fans at the ground wrongly booed.

This season has been great entertainment, today was not good but we are still in the mix. There will be ups and downs but that's football.

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2 minutes ago, Oldandtired said:

Just seen the goals, nothing complicated or inventive about them, just goals that we shouldn’t be letting happen. Also just reinforces my opinion of Manning, sh 1 te.

Manning really is limited defensively and positionally.   The dilemma Martin has is knowing that in 6-12 months time a player like Meghoma is likely going to be leaving Manning for dead, but at such a pointy stage of the season he can't afford to gamble with the inexperience of Meghoma.    More likely he thinks about a fit Bree in there at LB as an alternative to Manning.    

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Such a shame to lose our historic run in this manner. Games are coming thick and fast and we looked leggy tonight. When the intensity isn’t there the possession football becomes too passive. Without Downes, everything is out of sync. Charles had his worst game for us tonight.

It was one of those games where our limited chances just sneak wide or hit the bar, meanwhile we get a toe on their pass and they are in for 1-0. IF one of those goes in, we may have just kicked on. Bristol countered us on numerous occasions and set up well to combat our style. Can’t complain that the best team didn’t win tonight but it’s certainly a worry that we’ve conceded 6 goals in 2 games and generally just look out of sorts. 

All about how we respond on Friday now, the 25 game run was an incredible achievement and we are unlikely to see that again. Players and management have credit in the bank for the last 5 months. Could really do with Downes being fit for Friday. I’ll be there at WBA cheering us back on track.

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Anyone else googling James Bree injury? Manning gets away with it some games as we score 2 or more. Didn't get away with it tonight. His defending is shambolic must be one of the worst left backs in the league for defending.

Anyone know when Bree is back?

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4 minutes ago, Saint IQ said:

Anyone else googling James Bree injury? Manning gets away with it some games as we score 2 or more. Didn't get away with it tonight. His defending is shambolic must be one of the worst left backs in the league for defending.

Anyone know when Bree is back?

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/24115294.bree-feature-southampton-under-21s-arsenal/

 

 

Screenshot_20240213-231849.png

Edited by trousers
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If Downes is still out on Friday I wonder if RM might opt to play 3 at the back to make us more solid. He doesn't have too many choices and might be forced to try a different system.  Keep it tight and look to pinch a narrow win. We can't afford to be as open as we were tonight that's for sure. We've leaked 6 goals in less than two games without Downes so he'll have to try to plug the gap somehow. 

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11 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

You’re right, may as well write off this season now. Then write off next season too, as we’ll lose most of our players. In fact, we’re probably now consigned to be another Stoke / Swansea for the next 10 years. Might even end 

Whilst i understand that you were just trying to be facetious with your reply, I think you may have got most of it correct.  Without promotion this season i think we will see a lot of quality leave the club.  I also think that if we don't make it this season we could be a long time in the championship, bigger clubs than us have spent a long time trying to get to the premiereship.   I'm not advocating giving up on anything, just starting that I don't rate our chances of winning playoff football.  For what it's worth i think we will stay in the autos race,  but it's going to go down to the wire, but if we don't make it is going to be a long way back. 

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8 minutes ago, saintant said:

If Downes is still out on Friday I wonder if RM might opt to play 3 at the back to make us more solid. He doesn't have too many choices and might be forced to try a different system.  Keep it tight and look to pinch a narrow win. We can't afford to be as open as we were tonight that's for sure. We've leaked 6 goals in less than two games without Downes so he'll have to try to plug the gap somehow. 

In hindsight that would have been a better option tonight. KWP further forward. Manning can jump in all he likes (does anyway). 2 up top Brooks in behind them. Ah well on to the next one. Not as if they cost me 5 accumulators too for 2.2k 😩

 

Edited by Saint IQ
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22 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Sulemana has never been anything other than f**king useless for us. Our record signing and we look a far better Championship team when he’s injured. If someone offers half what we paid, next summer, I’d bite their hand off. £22m Danny N’Guessan.

He's barely played this year. 

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46 minutes ago, saintant said:

The spine of the team was broken with the loss of Downes and, to a lesser extent, Adams. It showed and we were guilty of continually giving the ball away cheaply high up the pitch and allowing them to break on us quickly. We need a reaction on Friday.

Yeah, well worth mentioning the absence of Adams. He offers another option to keep hold of that ball in the final thrd, that Martin was mentioning as a real issue today. Aribo coming back too, if he's at a level similar to that of his departure, will help us here too. 

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1 minute ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Yeah, well worth mentioning the absence of Adams. He offers another option to keep hold of that ball in the final thrd, that Martin was mentioning as a real issue today. Aribo coming back too, if he's at a level similar to that of his departure, will help us here too. 

Good point about Aribo and maybe he'll go straight into the side.

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You'll remember that this team has always struggled when Downes is unavailable. Last time around we fixed it by swapping Bree for Manning and limiting the adventurousness of the full backs. I felt like KWP was more restrained than usual in getting forward which will have limited the passing options for the midfield. Add some general lethargy caused by fixture congestion limiting our ability to aggressively win the ball back as soon as we loose it, and Charles being out of sorts and that's going to have an affect.

Whilst our midfield was clearly off the pace today, the number of slips and severely misplaced passes caught my attention. Adam Blackmore stated that there had been torrential rain all afternoon. The pitch looked in a shit state and you could see the ball was very slow and sticky. 

Let's say you coached a counter attacking team of middle of the pack players and were due to play a slick passing top team on a 25 game unbeaten run. If you had seen the weather forecast would you be tempted to subtly limit the drainage of the pitch to make it slow and awkward for the team likely to have 75% possession...

 

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49 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

You’re right, may as well write off this season now. Then write off next season too, as we’ll lose most of our players. In fact, we’re probably now consigned to be another Stoke / Swansea for the next 10 years. Might even end up going bust.

Happy 2034!

I hope you're as excited as I am at the launch of the new SFC!

It's a whole new era for the fans...  after the demise of the club, the phoenix club, and the phoenix phoenix club

I'm sure we'll all embrace this new team. Not too hard though! We'll be playing in the Subutteo Leagues, and don't want any injuries.

Especially not to our new left back, who although made of the same plastic as Russell Martin's hair, and glued onto a wobbly base, is still an improvement on Manning.

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1 hour ago, Winnersaint said:

People forget or never witnessed that both Cork and Schneiderlin were holding players. We’re way  more lightweight than we were then.

Cork and Morgan was a Rolls Royce midfield for this level. Absurd that we actually managed to upgrade the pairing by swapping in Wanyama when we went up.

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Dids we do a loss? 

Only watched the 'highlights' so I have no idea of how we, or Bristol, really performed (slight lie, I trust enough posters on here to get an idea that we weren't great and nor were Bristol playing out their skins).

But I'm still okay with where we are at as a squad and a team. And definitely still okay with current league position.

Frankly we could do 'a September' and lose the next three and we would still be in the playoffs. And I - for the first time ever - fancy our chances against any other team also in the mix across 3 games.

I hate losing, but I like still this league.

Football, eh?

 

 

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It's very disappointing of course, but for goodness sake keep some perspective one loss in 25 games!!

My worry is that we looked mentally tired unless it was the pitch with so many passes going astray.

Friday isn't the best game to recover, and there isn't much chance to get properly refreshed.

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What a way to LOSE a record !   It almost seemed as though we surrendered after their first goal and didn't even go down fighting

In all honesty,  I thought Huddersfield were tougher opponents, and we were so poor that we almost made City look good. 

SORRY Russell... but wrong start side.  Without Downes we needed a proper midfielder, maybe Stuart A. should have started?. 

 I know RM wants to give everyone game time but Charles had used up his before the half hour and should have been subbed earlier.

Saints made too many poor passes and scarcely won any second balls, and we looked all at sea from the off.  

 

Rightly or wrongly...the back line seems to pick itself every week, but both the midfield (and strike force) looked like strangers to each other.

Bednarek looked a little below par, and Harwood-Bellis wasn't as sharp as usual...... and sadly Manning was more of a burden than a help.

Rothwell was never going to score again, but at least he put in a good shift, and Smallbone kept looking for Flynn Downes all evening.

 

KWP was a one-man strike force on his own, but he's supposed to be our RB,  and Bristol's biggest threat came from their left winger.

Brooks looks good every time he has the ball, but what is his best role ?   For all his trickery Edozie always fluffed the final pass into the box. 

At present Mara is most effective as an impact player, but even that was missing last night.   Adam A.  did his share but had few real chances.

I suppose it's good to see Sulemana back at last, but he made little impression and KWP looked better than he did out on the right..

 

We can only hope that this was  "a blip" , because West Brom. will be stronger opposition on Friday and we mustn't get caught out again.

 

Edited by david in sweden
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I’m not a big Lego fan (his love of himself far exceeds his career achievements to date), or the style of football (would like it in the mixer a bit more), but some of the comments on here are laughable.
 

We’ve had an exceptional run which was obviously going to end somewhen. That run basically guaranteed a top 6 finish & we’re only half way through Feb. Leeds will lose 2 or 3 more & no doubt we will as well. Even if one of those defeats is Friday, it’s not the end of the world. Long long way to go, lots of twists and turns to come. Leeds aren’t any better than us, they’re not some wonder team. 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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9 hours ago, Block41 Saint said:

Us spending the money we spent on Charles and Stewart in the summer is really poor business. I know Stewart has been unfortunate with his injuries but Charles has looked awful more often than not. I really hope Downes isn't out for many more games because Charles is nowhere near good enough for the top end of this league despite costing a fortune at Championship level. 

Charles looked cumbersome and only seemed to do the short pass but he was ok at the start of the season. Problem is, being out the team seems to have slowed him and reactions up even more. Like S-Clarke said, he was often out of position or when he got the ball, he gave it away and deserved to be yanked off at half time. 

And I'm not usually a Baz critic but couldn't he have anticipated and dived out to cut out the cross for the first?

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8 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I do, yes. I think we've got a small squad, but if they are all available then we are amongst the best 3 in this league. Going unbeaten for 25 games is as much confirmation as you can get that we're good enough to finish Top 2. What I liked with Adkins side was our midfield, Cork, Chaplow, Morgan, Hammond - lots of bite and aggression there, this year we only really have one player who can provide that role.

In attack (wide area's etc), we are stocked and the options we have are a step up on what we had available under Adkins.

Defeats will happen, Leicester lost a couple of games, Leeds had a wobble during December - it happens. Just like our unbeaten run wasn't going to go on forever, neither is Leeds winning every week. Lots of twists and turns, but we've pulled ourselves into a position to be in there until the end. My feeling is that there will be a gap between the Top 3 and the rest come the end of the season, just need to make sure it's in the right order for us.

But our results against the top teams has not been consistent we may finish 2nd but I doubt it as Leicester and Leeds are relatively strong 

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Strange feeling this morning.

I think a lot of us were worried going into it and it was clear after 5 mins that we weren’t at it, whilst Bristol City certainly were.  Missing Downes has a massive impact and we also miss Adams in those types of games, for all his faults he gives us a central target which Armstong doesn’t and he offers a route to get up the pitch.
 

All about the reaction on Friday now, personally I’d take a point and move onto the next batch of fixtures which are mostly at home. Up the Saints.

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