WBA 0-2 Saints - Match Thread

[Charlie Wayman]

We have not become a bad team overnight lads, keep the faith. The next unbeaten run of 25 matches starts tomorrow . 4-2 to Saints.

[SaintsFan86]

1 minute ago, Charlie Wayman said:

We have not become a bad team overnight lads, keep the faith. The next unbeaten run of 25 matches starts tomorrow . 4-2 to Saints.

I just want to see alot more commitment.. Complacency has crept in and its obvious to see. 

Hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.

[suewhistle]

23 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

That’s the spirit 😂

Is he your apprentice?

[captainchris]

One or two things that are concerning.

Firstly we seemed to be fine in midfield attacking roles despite Sully being out so I’m not really sure why we rushed out to ‘strengthen’ there and then directly shoehorn in those signings immediately and in particular Rothwell who since his inclusion we have conceded 6 in the last two games and looked poor in midfield. 

Mara is a pretty good central forward but cannot play out wide yet RM continues with the experiment of playing him wide or leaves him out. As soon as he moved more central against Watford he excelled. Leaving a in form Mara out against Bristol in favour of a fading AA who obviously is not very effective as a No9 seemed strange.

AA appears to be very favoured in what should be a no favour squad game… 

It appears that RM has a certain favouritism to certain players which will hinder us if he allows his team selections to follow his preferences in people he likes over what is the best personnel for the team.

RM’s style of play is scintillating to watch but it relies on very high energy, positional skill, passing, accuracy and awareness to work, we have two or three that are a bit short in those departments and the whole ethos breaks down when they are included at the moment. 
Against WBA we cannot afford to carry any of RM’s babes…. 
 

 

[trousers]

5 hours ago, notnowcato said:

I’m not certain that had Downes played on Tuesday that all would’ve been well. He’s clearly a top player for us but so many of those that started and came on were off their game. No doubt the staff know of many formations that they could switch to but for me we gave the ball away too easily in situations you’d expect us to retain control, that was apparent all over the pitch. 

Whilst we're not a one-man team, far from it, my feeling is that you're under-estimating how pivotal Downes is to the way we play. When Downes plays we simply don't "give the ball away too easily in situations you'd expect us to retain control" anywhere near as much.... yes, I accept that was also happening in other positions on the pitch on Tuesday, but by far the key position that happened in was central midfield. 

As I say, just a different opinion and I respect your point of view.

Edited February 15 by trousers

[trousers]

16 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

We have not become a bad team overnight lads, keep the faith. The next unbeaten run of 25 matches starts tomorrow . 4-2 to Saints.

Yay! The positive Charlie returneth!

[trousers]

RM: "We hope both Adams and Downes will be available for tomorrow... they're close, but not certain"

Edited February 15 by trousers

[trousers]

RM: "I didn't get much sleep last night because I'm excited about what we can achieve at WBA..."

[Lymington Saint]

It's Downes we need.  Smallbone is a much better player with Downes alongside him.  I would play Mara down the middle.  AA is also really good at chasing back when playing in the wide role.  Brookes is very talented but doesn't chase back as much.  Which exposes Manning's limitations.  And I know that he scored two cracking goals last Saturday, but not sure that Rothwell is quite up to speed yet either.  RM has got some decisions to make tomorrow.  Really cant afford another loss.

[S-Clarke]

58 minutes ago, trousers said:

Whilst we're not a one-man team, far from it, my feeling is that you're under-estimating how pivotal Downes is to the way we play. When Downes plays we simply don't "give the ball away too easily in situations you'd expect us to retain control" anywhere near as much.... yes, I accept that was also happening in other positions on the pitch on Tuesday, but by far the key position that happened in was central midfield. 

As I say, just a different opinion and I respect your point of view.

This is the key thing for me, players were made to look worse because Downes wasn't there. I noticed a couple of KWP and THB passes into an area where Downes 'would' have been, but neither Charles or Smallbone had the positional awareness to be available to receive the passes - so it looked like everyone was shit because they were giving the ball away, but a lot of was because the player wasn't where they should be and the automatism's were thrown because of that.

It's not just because it's Downes, but any 6 with positional awareness and experience could do that role. Our problem is for us is that it's Downes or no one as neither smallbone or Rothwell are 6's, they're more advanced midfielders. And Charles is an inexperienced kid.

Edited February 15 by S-Clarke

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Whilst we're not a one-man team, far from it, my feeling is that you're under-estimating how pivotal Downes is to the way we play. When Downes plays we simply don't "give the ball away too easily in situations you'd expect us to retain control" anywhere near as much.... yes, I accept that was also happening in other positions on the pitch on Tuesday, but by far the key position that happened in was central midfield. 

As I say, just a different opinion and I respect your point of view.

Agreed that our build up play through the first two thirds, where a 6 is influential, was not at its usual high standard but we were also below par in the final third; can’t remember us looking that poor up top for a while. 
 

The performance worried me but given what we’ve seen since October up to Huddersfield I’d back the team to bounce back. 

[revolution saint]

20 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is the key thing for me, players were made to look worse because Downes wasn't there. I noticed a couple of KWP and THB passes into an area where Downes 'would' have been, but neither Charles or Smallbone had the positional awareness to be available to receive the passes - so it looked like everyone was shit because they were giving the ball away, but a lot of was because the player wasn't where they should be and the automatism's were thrown because of that.

It's not just because it's Downes, but any 6 with positional awareness and experience could do that role. Our problem is for us is that it's Downes or no one as neither smallbone or Rothwell are 6's, they're more advanced midfielders. And Charles is an inexperienced kid.

10 points for automatisms, although you've for a big lad you'll be disappointed with the finish at the end.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

I think we need to start a solid first XI, with attacking options off the bench later on. I’d put AA back out wide and start Mara.
 

 Hopefully it’s: Bazunu, KWP, THB, Bednarek, Manning, Downes, Smallbone, S. Armstrong, Edozie, Mara, A. Armstrong. 
 

Possibly with Fraser starting over Edozie. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

1 hour ago, for_heaven's_Saint said:

I think we need to start a solid first XI, with attacking options off the bench later on. I’d put AA back out wide and start Mara.
 

 Hopefully it’s: Bazunu, KWP, THB, Bednarek, Manning, Downes, Smallbone, S. Armstrong, Edozie, Mara, A. Armstrong. 
 

Possibly with Fraser starting over Edozie. 

If everyone is fit id go this ..

               baz 

kwp.       Thb. Bed.    Manning

              Downes smallbone 

                   Brooks

AA.                Mara.          Fraser 

putting brooks in the 10 allows him to be our key creator , his vision and through passes are top notch and he can excel here without having to disrupt Arma on the right.also makes us a bit stronger defensively on the right as Arma puts himself about more .,  I’d give Mara the nod over che for the finishing ability and think his off the shoulder runs could combine better with brooks.. lastly Fraser In on the left just for me as he earned it whilst the other 2 where injured .. I like all three players for this position but it’s West Brom away so let’s play the safest option with the best end product 

Edited February 15 by pimpin4rizeal

[saintant]

3 hours ago, trousers said:

Whilst we're not a one-man team, far from it, my feeling is that you're under-estimating how pivotal Downes is to the way we play. When Downes plays we simply don't "give the ball away too easily in situations you'd expect us to retain control" anywhere near as much.... yes, I accept that was also happening in other positions on the pitch on Tuesday, but by far the key position that happened in was central midfield. 

As I say, just a different opinion and I respect your point of view.

The other thing we do much better when Downes plays is win the ball back quickly. We didn't do that on Tuesday. The guy is so integral to how we play. Reading between the lines in RM's presser I'll be very surprised if he's in the squad tomorrow.  Hope I'm wrong.

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, saintant said:

The other thing we do much better when Downes plays is win the ball back quickly. We didn't do that on Tuesday. The guy is so integral to how we play. Reading between the lines in RM's presser I'll be very surprised if he's in the squad tomorrow.  Hope I'm wrong.

Agree. I think he's putting a brave fave on it and doesn't want to show our hand. He will be fully aware either way. 

[Charlie Wayman]

3 hours ago, SaintsFan86 said:

I just want to see alot more commitment.. Complacency has crept in and its obvious to see. 

Hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.

I can't agree with you at all. Tuesday night's performance had nothing to do with complacency or any lack of commitment but everything to do with fatigue and exhaustion.

Where have you seen any sign of complacency or lack of commitment under Russell Martin's watch?

[saintant]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

This is the key thing for me, players were made to look worse because Downes wasn't there. I noticed a couple of KWP and THB passes into an area where Downes 'would' have been, but neither Charles or Smallbone had the positional awareness to be available to receive the passes - so it looked like everyone was shit because they were giving the ball away, but a lot of was because the player wasn't where they should be and the automatism's were thrown because of that.

It's not just because it's Downes, but any 6 with positional awareness and experience could do that role. Our problem is for us is that it's Downes or no one as neither smallbone or Rothwell are 6's, they're more advanced midfielders. And Charles is an inexperienced kid.

This in a nutshell - totally agree.

[saintant]

They are strong at home and I think only Leicester and Huddersfield have come away with all 3 points. There's a smattering of draws but they've beaten a fair few of the better sides. A draw won't be the end of the world if it comes from a good performance. If we can somehow sneak a win it'll help massively after Tuesday's defeat. We need a fully fit Downes in the side that's for sure.

[AlexLaw76]

WBA presser

• Flynn and Che will be very close for Fri, we wait and hope
• Lads have responded really well after the other night, all have been back on the pitch
• we try and give them the most information from Tuesday
• They are frustrated, but still smiling, and we have moved on
• Fri will be a different challenge, it will be tough
• I was asked if this was the toughest week of the season so far, I did not think so but we wait and see
• I did not sleep well last night, as I am understanding what it takes, I am really excited 
• The players have been amazing, we have recovered well, and no doubt they will give it all on Fri
• Every away game is a tough challenge
• They are great at home, only lost 4 at home since Carlos has been in charge
• They are very well coached, well organised, physical, power
• We must be the team we want to be
• We have a chance to really show everyone we are together, and I am really excited
• I hope the speculation about Jason is wrong, I have great respect for Jason and not surprised by any link
• I would like to think he would chat with us if there is anything in, he has supported me incredibly well here
• He was brave to give me this opportunity, I have not won anything but he looked beyond that
• We talk a lot, he is really open, I hope this is just speculation, but I cannot speak on his behalf
• I hope Jason is proud what we are all building here, but it will not be justified if we do not get to the premier league
• I hope long term the changes he has made work for this club, it is muy job to deliver short term impact
• The energy at this club is completely different from when I first walked in, and hope we all can keep going
• We went on a great run, now we have to start another. No one is getting overly emotional with 1 defeat, but we move on

[Wade Garrett]

5 hours ago, suewhistle said:

Is he your apprentice?

He’s just taking the reins whilst I mourn Tuesday’s result 😂

[Wade Garrett]

If Downes is fit we are going to fucking destroy them.

[Tommy Mulgrew]

IMO the problems with “automatisms” and giving the ball away were caused by the absence of Downes, the presence of Brooks on the right wing and of Rothwell in midfield and Charles and Smallbone doing precious little right, partly caused by the two former points. Because many of our usual passing lanes were not there, we slowed down to almost walking pace and could not play with our usual (recent) intensity.  Putting those things right would improve things considerably.  Brooks as RW is hopeless because he does not track back defensively and he takes AA’s place, forcing the latter to the centre; AA is not a CF.  If Brooks starts as a 10, he will still have to do some defensive work and will have to have a better idea of the automatic passing lines to him than he did at Bristol.  If we play both JR and DB without having Downes, as we did on Tuesday, we shall have similar problems.  Hopefully, big Joe Aribo is ready to play.

The problem of the left side of our defence is easily solved, in Bree’s absence, by playing Meghoma and having our LW (preferably Fraser) doubling up as necessary.  Meghoma is good defensively for someone so young but will not have faced a side as good as WBA before; he has done exceptionally well so far and shows every sign of being able to cope.  I’d rather have him than Manning.

 

GB, KWP, TBH, JB, Meghoma, FD or SC, JA, DB, AA, SM, RF

Subs: Lumley, JS, RM, SA, WS, SAA, JR, Sully, Adams.  Bragg and Dibling miss out.

If Brooks is injured, WS to get a chance to redeem himself after his nightmare at Bristol and Bragg as a sub, with Dibling missing out.  If Adams is not yet fit, Dibling replaces him.

And a big, powerful hairdryer for RM.

Edited February 15 by Tommy Mulgrew
Correction

[EssEffCee]

Got a spare ticket for this if anyone's interested 

[John B]

8 hours ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Baz;

Stephens, ThB, Bednarek, KWP;

Downes?;

Smallbone, Stuey;

Arma, Mara, Edozie/Fraser. 

Does not fill me with confidence really especially if Downes is not fit enough to play

[derry]

Smallbone and Manning are pussies when it comes to tackling and winning the ball. all they do is try to nick the ball away and mostly don't. Defensively Manning is a liability. 

[Harry_SFC]

25 minutes ago, derry said:

Smallbone and Manning are pussies when it comes to tackling and winning the ball. all they do is try to nick the ball away and mostly don't. Defensively Manning is a liability. 

Martin must know how poor Smallbone is off the ball. I think he gets away with it a bit when Downes is playing but when he isn't, it's badly exposed. 

He is usually decent at keeping possession though, I guess that's why he's in the side. 

Edited February 15 by Harry_SFC

[Saint Gifford]

Monkey off our back imo.

Been a great run now we can actual play Liverpool in a couple of weeks, without what if we lose what if we don’t attitude and what it does to the rest of the season.

I have to agree with a couple on here, we have looked f@“ked recently with missing players. 
 

Can’t keep that run going with losing players to injury ect ect. Arsenals invisibles weren’t, they lost cup games for fun. 
 

No reason why we can’t start another good run, not a distraction anymore to the “business end”.

Just gutted it was against the Shit, anyone but them….,,,,,,,,,

 

 

[Saint86]

West Brom with a morale boosting takeover, just in time for friday... 🤣

[austsaint]

2 hours ago, derry said:

Smallbone and Manning are pussies when it comes to tackling and winning the ball. all they do is try to nick the ball away and mostly don't. Defensively Manning is a liability. 

Russell Martin is overseeing a magnificent season with Saints, and has an enormous amount of credits, no matter what happens from this point  - not-with-standing his brief was/is to return us to the Prem.

One of the things I like about his player management is the encouragement and support for players, even if they have a bad game or stuff up - especially important for the younger lads.    

Just the same, I've thought for a while that RM is greatly overrating Manning and Smallbone.    Manning's repeat weaknesses defensively and positionally have been well discussed.   

The Daily Echo quoted Martin as saying that "WS did a great job" as the 6 against Bristol City!    Really!. Admittedly he wasn't helped by young Charles' disappointing game in the first half, but his own game was awful.   I think we've seen enough of him as a central or defensive mid to say he's not up to that role, especially when a player like Downes is missing.   WS' role as a more attacking mid is certainly more impressive - he covers ground (though not athletic), gets into the box well and has good eye for a pass even though his instinct is often sideways or backwards.    

The question I ask...... is he any more effective in that more attacking role than players like Aribo, Brooks or Rothwell?   Not quite good enough to be a first choice defensive midfielder and similarly as an attacking mid with the depth we have.    The hybrid role he is often entrusted with seems a luxury against the stronger opposition.     I'm quietly confident that if Wilcox and RM had a chance to bolster the squad right now, an experienced defensive mid-fielder would be high on the list.

[Wade Garrett]

9 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

Martin must know how poor Smallbone is off the ball. I think he gets away with it a bit when Downes is playing but when he isn't, it's badly exposed. 

He is usually decent at keeping possession though, I guess that's why he's in the side. 

He cheats in possession whenever he picks the ball up deep.  Just like a wall, a bit like JWP and unlike Lavia, he doesn’t play on the half turn.  One of those midfielders that Souness rages about.

I get exasperated when he gets the ball and just quickly gives it back when there’s space for him to turn.  Lost count the number of times he’s done it.

 

[Doctoroncall]

16 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

He cheats in possession whenever he picks the ball up deep.  Just like a wall, a bit like JWP and unlike Lavia, he doesn’t play on the half turn.  One of those midfielders that Souness rages about.

I get exasperated when he gets the ball and just quickly gives it back when there’s space for him to turn.  Lost count the number of times he’s done it.

 

Unfortunately he’s not alone in that and that’s the annoying part in this ball possession, it’s not exactly keeping the opposition on its toes and help break the lines. 
 

General Saints do well in the attacking third, it’s getting there which is the hard part and when Downes is out it suffers more. 

[Draino76]

If anyone has a spare seat end ticket, I'll buy it.

[Draino76]

Mobile error. Away end!

[Dusic]

Despite the stick he gets, we nearly always look better when Adams starts. Hope he is available.

[Pamplemousse]

The more I think about it, the more confident I am that we will win tonight.

Last season, any setback and the team capitulated. But not this season. This team is full of winners.

We will bounce back.

[notnowcato]

I’m hopeful for a much improved performance.

[Matty's Caddy]

Think we missed Adams up top on Tuesday…….

[Harry_SFC]

1 hour ago, Dusic said:

Despite the stick he gets, we nearly always look better when Adams starts. Hope he is available.

Yep. On Tuesday we had no one up top who was able to hold the ball and bring others in to play. 

[manji]

Pretty sure Adams will be back tonight, he was very close Tuesday. Fynn must be close will RM risk it ?

 

[Wade Garrett]

25 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Yep. On Tuesday we had no one up top who was able to hold the ball and bring others in to play. 

Adam A certainly wasn’t capable of holding the ball up.  Think he’s been poor in the last couple of games.

 

[SotonianWill]

2 hours ago, Dusic said:

Despite the stick he gets, we nearly always look better when Adams starts. Hope he is available.

I think the hate was always surrounding his finishing. As a player he's very valuable to us - Adam Blackmore and Tessem explain it best on Solent, with regards to his movement and hold up play for others. AA on his own just doesn't cut it.

[EssEffCee]

4 hours ago, Draino76 said:

If anyone has a spare seat end ticket, I'll buy it.

I have one if still looking.

Can't message you, got an email or mobile number I can reach you on?

Edited February 16 by EssEffCee

[igsey]

3 days between games is brutal, we had Saturday -> Tuesday to try and figure out how to deal without our key midfielder while also making sure players were properly rested, and again Tuesday -> Friday (which is ludicrous scheduling, why isn't this at the weekend?) without even being sure if said key midfielder will be fit. There's only so much you can teach in a lecture theatre without putting in the hours on the training pitch.

[Draino76]

1 hour ago, EssEffCee said:

I have one if still looking.

Can't message you, got an email or mobile number I can reach you on?

Sure, I'm on xxx Now open to unknown callers!

Edited February 16 by Draino76

[Jack]

I think it’ll be a routine defeat. They’re very good at home, we’re not very good away 

[EssEffCee]

17 hours ago, EssEffCee said:

Got a spare ticket for this if anyone's interested 

Sold 

[Rut]

Away from football - has anyone ever met someone who has answered 'West Bromwich' when asked where they are from?

I don't think I ever have. 

Easy Saints win tonight. Bring it on.

 

 

 

[woodsaint1]

1 hour ago, Jack said:

I think it’ll be a routine defeat. They’re very good at home, we’re not very good away 

We've the second best away record in the league (win 8 draw 5 lost 3) 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Charlie Wayman]

1 hour ago, Jack said:

I think it’ll be a routine defeat. They’re very good at home, we’re not very good away 

Miserable you! Cheer up and get behind our team. Imagine they are the Tories of Kettering and we are Labour coming to get them and we are going to give them a damn good thrashing!