Derby 1-1 Saints - Match Thread

[Vancouver Saint]

For all our issues about three or four at the back, GK woes, best midfield combo, the lack of an out-and-out striker, Will Still - the game is about goals - and we don't score them.

Goal difference is the most telling stat. Coventry +20 Southampton -1 

How about focusing single-mindedly on scoring goals Still?

[saintant]

2 hours ago, sfc4prem said:

As I watch our games i continue to see us really contested, challenged and going toe-to-toe with teams in the lower half of the league.

We don't look streets above them, or make them shit themselves.

Most teams seem quite comfortable against us and have looked better than us for chunks of each game.

It feels a bit different to the last time we were down here.

It feels like mid-table.

Have you considered it could be because we ourselves are also in that same lower half of the league?

[Andy Hill]

Yet another year where we have such little goal threat. Maybe just maybe it will get addressed in Jan.

[Give it to Ron]

11 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Wasnt that stephens the 5 games he was in

Not really if you include Hull as well - Woods , Quarshie were fine today .

Our issue is as we all knew at start of season we shouldn’t gamble on Stewart and a 6m German 2 player. We needed a Bishop, McBurnie, Keiffer Moore, type and now paying the price not signing one.

Stephens wouldn’t control midfield or The lack of outlet to get us up the Pitch

Edited Saturday at 19:17 by Give it to Ron

[benjii]

11 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Not really if you include Hull as well - Woods , Quarshie were fine today .

Our issue is as we all knew at start of season we shouldn’t gamble on Stewart and a 6m German 2 player. We needed a Bishop, McBurnie, Keiffer Moore, type and now paying the price not signing one.

Stephens wouldn’t control midfield or The lack of outlet to get us up the Pitch

None of those forwards is fit to wear the red and white.

[Give it to Ron]

4 minutes ago, benjii said:

None of those forwards is fit to wear the red and white.

I said type….not specifically them

[Andy Hill]

I would give Stiil just a couple more games to ignite some belief into this mediocre set of players. If not then get rid.

[Mboto Gorge]

26 minutes ago, Andy Hill said:

Yet another year where we have such little goal threat. Maybe just maybe it will get addressed in Jan.

By these clowns in charge? They couldn’t address an envelope 

[sfc4prem]

35 minutes ago, saintant said:

Have you considered it could be because we ourselves are also in that same lower half of the league?

I have indeed. It feels so wrong

[Football Special]

1 hour ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

Surely that's down to coaching and approach then? These players are more than capable to outscore other teams and defend better?

I don't doubt there is room for improvement but my post explains why our players are not that great in key positions,  fans need to start giving other championship teams a bit more respect 

[SW11_Saint]

20 minutes ago, Andy Hill said:

I would give Stiil just a couple more games to ignite some belief into this mediocre set of players. If not then get rid.

To be replaced by who? 

[Southner]

Too late...?

Edited Saturday at 19:56 by Southner

[maysie]

53 minutes ago, whiteleySaint30 said:

Have you seen Roerslev - #ucking useless.

I've seen him play like a game and a half, and yes not great, but willing to give him a bit more time than that considering his pedigree.

[Convict Colony]

5 minutes ago, Southner said:

Too late...?

never too late, too early or just on time

[saintant]

Just watched the brief highlights and Manning needs dropping for his actions leading to their goal. He may not have felt it was a Derby throw but he is experienced enough to know that once a lino has given it to them no amount of whinging is going to change his mind. He allowed them to take a throw to an unchallenged player and cross it into the box to another unchallenged player who scored with a free header. Edwards needs to be far stronger there. Lots wrong with the goal for Still to look at but Manning must be made to pay for what he did.

[warsash saint]

Yes i know Downes is playing awful, but jeez the dog's abuse the poor guy got today every time he got near the ball was embarrassing - no wonder his confidence is shot when our cretinous fans give a huge cheer for completing a pass.

Scienza was shot, we'd be firing in a few crosses with no one on the end of them so can see why Downes was bought on - don't blame him - blame SR for not buying us a striker proven at this level!

[Badger]

2 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

Yes i know Downes is playing awful, but jeez the dog's abuse the poor guy got today every time he got near the ball was embarrassing - no wonder his confidence is shot when our cretinous fans give a huge cheer for completing a pass.

Scienza was shot, we'd be firing in a few crosses with no one on the end of them so can see why Downes was bought on - don't blame him - blame SR for not buying us a striker proven at this level!

Do you mean  Downes (Flynn) or Downs (Damion)? Or both ? 
 

I assume it’s Downs, but both came on today, both haven’t been playing well (Flynn occasionally, Damion continually), and both have had some flak from supporters. Apart from that, at least they don’t look alike. 

[Badger]

22 minutes ago, Southner said:

Too late...?

At least we’ve seen an improvement in nuns this season 

[Football Special]

11 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

Yes i know Downes is playing awful, but jeez the dog's abuse the poor guy got today every time he got near the ball was embarrassing - no wonder his confidence is shot when our cretinous fans give a huge cheer for completing a pass.

Scienza was shot, we'd be firing in a few crosses with no one on the end of them so can see why Downes was bought on - don't blame him - blame SR for not buying us a striker proven at this level!

I'd like to think any sensible fans don't hate Downs, clearly he's not been very good but criticism should be aimed at hierarchy at the club who decided to sign him and then management team who pick him to play. 

[Harry_SFC]

10 minutes ago, Football Special said:

I'd like to think any sensible fans don't hate Downs, clearly he's not been very good but criticism should be aimed at hierarchy at the club who decided to sign him and then management team who pick him to play. 

Agree.Still needs to keep him out of the firing line because it will keep getting worse if Downs continues to perform like this. 

[RedWillie]

Club is run by donkeys. Not a clue amongst them. SR really haven't a scooby. 50m squandered on utter gash and a manager way out of his depth.

Edited Saturday at 20:45 by RedWillie
Spelling

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, RedWillie said:

Club is run by donkeys. Not a clue amongst them. SR really haven't a scooby. 50m squandered on utter gash and a manager way out of his depth.

Apart from Downs, who was only £6m and we'd probably get most of that back if it came to it, who have we signed who's 'utter gash'?

[Baird of the land]

1 hour ago, Give it to Ron said:

Not really if you include Hull as well - Woods , Quarshie were fine today .

Our issue is as we all knew at start of season we shouldn’t gamble on Stewart and a 6m German 2 player. We needed a Bishop, McBurnie, Keiffer Moore, type and now paying the price not signing one.

Stephens wouldn’t control midfield or The lack of outlet to get us up the Pitch

Derby’s morris signed from Luton would have been another option (with some premier league success too.

yet saints tried to be clever and have ended up with carillo mk2.

[Forester]

Thought we started well, and again Stewart looked a proper target man.  Armstrong and Stewart for me is a good partnership in this division.  McCarthy again showing he stops more shots than Baz.

However, as soon as Stewart goes off we lack that figurehead and Downs is clearly not the answer.  Feels like a massive transfer mistake unless he really turns things around.

We either need to learn to play a different way with Archer and Armstrong, which is possible but hard when you will inevitably not be playing too often on the break, or can I suggest a radical and not ideal alternative.  Could Aribo be used as a back to goal striker and link up play?  Cannot be any worse than Downs.

[Chez]

14 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Derby’s morris signed from Luton would have been another option (with some premier league success too.

yet saints tried to be clever and have ended up with carillo mk2.

 not quite sure where I stood at the time, but many suggested in the summer that we needed to reboot and create a side that would not only get us up but give us half a chance of staying up if we did. None of these strikers would be any use in the PL.

Agyemanng was certainly an alternative option to Downs. Not sure he has set the world on fire yet either.

[Baird of the land]

5 minutes ago, Chez said:

 not quite sure where I stood at the time, but many suggested in the summer that we needed to reboot and create a side that would not only get us up but give us half a chance of staying up if we did. None of these strikers would be any use in the PL.

Agyemanng was certainly an alternative option to Downs. Not sure he has set the world on fire yet either.

Depends on what you mean by use. Morris scored 11 goals in his only premier league season which seems pretty reasonable to me.

[Southner]

59 minutes ago, Badger said:

At least we’ve seen an improvement in nuns this season 

Every cloud. 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

4 minutes ago, Forester said:

Thought we started well, and again Stewart looked a proper target man.  Armstrong and Stewart for me is a good partnership in this division.  McCarthy again showing he stops more shots than Baz.

However, as soon as Stewart goes off we lack that figurehead and Downs is clearly not the answer.  Feels like a massive transfer mistake unless he really turns things around.

We either need to learn to play a different way with Archer and Armstrong, which is possible but hard when you will inevitably not be playing too often on the break, or can I suggest a radical and not ideal alternative.  Could Aribo be used as a back to goal striker and link up play?  Cannot be any worse than Downs.

Well that was all rather underwhelming.

A few on this website have said it would be risky to rely on a centre forward who is injury prone, but once Will Still realised Downs wasn't going to be our new wonder striker, that's exactly what he's done. Still seems to like a target man centre forward and if Stewart is out for a while, you can't put AA in there. Hopefully he's realised Downs shouldn't be anywhere near the team, so possibly Aribo, possibly Robinson can go there.

I think Scienza came off because he was knackered. He was our best player though also liked Charles again and McCarthy must stay as our No1.

And while I don't like to boo our players, I do think if Downs comes on again, there needs to be a chorus of "You don't know what you're doing" aimed at both him and the manager.

[SW11_Saint]

2 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

Assume the board have now given up on their pre-season target of automatic promotion with Will Still. Wonder how long we have to endure the outside chance of Will scraping into the play-offs to save Spors & co’s blushes. Knowing the Sport Republic brains trust, around fucking Easter! 

Absolutely pointless sacking him. This season will be a learning curve and time for development. Play-offs not out of the question, but do we really want to get promoted and be humiliated again next season? I won’t turn down promotion if it comes, but in some ways continuing to develop and going up stronger the year after might be a better outcome. 

[trousers]

21 minutes ago, Forester said:

 Could Aribo be used as a back to goal striker and link up play?

I've mentioned this before, and it could be a false memory, but when he first arrived at the club I'm sure we played him in a very advanced position. So, yes, I can see him being able to fill a gap there, especially if Stewart is now going to be sidelined for a period of time again.

[CSA96]

Just back in the front door from Derby

Thoughts...

It was a game of two halves, but in the sense that the first half of the game was the 30 minutes where Ross Stewart was on the pitch and the second half of the game was the next hour. Honestly, I felt we looked great with Ross on the pitch, probably as cohesive and threatening as we've looked all season. Lots of nice, mixed passing, a balance of quick short play and direct play into Stewart and then exposing the space between the Derby back four and the midfield. Ross individually looked very good and managed to bring the others around him into the game and occupy the centre halves. Hopefully his injury is a minor one

Sadly, after Ross went off, we seemed to almost immediately become drained of all ideas of how to progress the play beyond the midfield. Not enough movement, not enough penetration and zero physicality to use as a platform to bring others into the game. As a result the midfield pattern of play became a hell of a lot more sideways and backwards than it was in the opening half an hour as midfielders continually looked up to see nobody moving or stretching the Derby lines

I have spent a fair bit of time defending/trying to be pragmatic about Downs but my goodness, he really offers such little to this team. The runs aren't right, he takes up odd positions out of possession, he doesn't press the backline, he doesn't win enough in the air and his touch/first-time passes are clumsy

I actually feel a bit sorry for him because he looks way off it and, ordinarily, a 21yo striker would be able to dip his toe in and find his way into this league with some 15 minute cameos in games where business is already taken care of

Given the scenario we're in, he gets thrown in when we're under pressure, the crowd is restless and he doesn't deliver and then takes more criticism on his shoulders. He looks absolutely bereft of self-belief right now and I'm not entirely sure what the answer to that is. I'd ordinarily say he needs to play through it but he is such a passenger that it is not fair on the other 10 lads on the pitch - maybe a loan and/or 21s games in the meantime?

Anyway, going from back to front...

McCarthy was great today and the defence, by and large, seemed pretty settled and comfortable. Wood continues to impress me. I was happy with the defence and the midfield in the past week or so, but it felt like our question marks were in goal and in the final third. We seem to have calmed down the goalkeeping situation now somewhat and McCarthy should stay in goal indefinitely this season. There's a 'spine' emerging of McCarthy, Wood, Charles, Jander, Armstrong and ??? (I hesitate to say Stewart due to his injury woes)

At the other end, we're still all over the place really. Given how obvious Will Still was about his desire to have a physical profile up front to build his attack and entire tactical approach around, to be finding ourselves in a situation where by the first weekend of October we already look shit-or-bust based on whether Ross Stewart's body to sustain itself for an entire season isn't acceptable. For the only feasible alternative to be Damion Downs, who we spent £7m on and looks miles off the level right now, is also unacceptable. At best it is naive from Spors and co, at worst it is negligent

I feel we've not yet found the best way to make use of our new signings in the wide areas: Fellows, Scienza, Azaz. These are guys with pedigree (some in this league, some elsewhere) and we've seen flashes from all of them. My feeling is that the formation is helping the central midfielders and the defenders but requiring our new wide players to play roles they aren't quite accustomed to yet. Scienza looked lively today, I loved his positivity in always looking to go forward and he is an effortless dribbler. He needs to cut out the play-acting though because that's already becoming slightly tedious

Beyond that, I thought Charles and Jander looked good again in the middle today. Today felt like a game where we got enough from the keeper, defence and midfield to win the game, but the lack of ideas from the forwards left us high and dry and made the draw feel pretty inevitable

Edited Saturday at 21:40 by CSA96

[Dr Who?]

Just back from the game. 
Started well, scored, then went to shite! Both teams had chances to score 3/4 more, but we were wasteful and they came up against a man of match keeper. 

All in not good enough all round, with lots of wrong choices made on the pitch and off it with some terrible tactic. 

It is such a shame as the away end was rocking from the off and we killed that after 10 minutes on the pitch by completely changing our mentality as a team. we were up and at them and we should have kept going at them for the 2nd. But we seemed to sit back.

Oh and another thing we need to stop this standing still with the ball at our feet and just killing momentum, what the heck is all that about. We are so laboured at times, but we are capable of moving the ball quickly and sharply, as I witnessed it today at times, it was very slick. 

We are so inconsistent, not game to game but within minutes. We are so odd, I cannot work it out. 

It was a good day again with the boy, but again no 3 points! 

[Gloucester Saint]

49 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Absolutely pointless sacking him. This season will be a learning curve and time for development. Play-offs not out of the question, but do we really want to get promoted and be humiliated again next season? I won’t turn down promotion if it comes, but in some ways continuing to develop and going up stronger the year after might be a better outcome. 

Gets more time for me as he’s had the guts to defy Ankerson and drop two of the SR ‘glory’ boys Bazunu and Stephens. Just needs to jettison Downs now in January as he won’t make a Championship centre forward anytime this century.

If Stewart’s out for a while again he’s going to have to think about how to adapt the pattern of play for Archer, Robinson and Dipepa. AA through the middle isn’t an option. 

Edited Saturday at 22:13 by Gloucester Saint

[Holmes_and_Watson]

6 hours ago, Football Special said:

Very disappointing start , we'll drop further tomorrow 

Dreadful position. Yet, because it's a gold table, makes me think we've achieved something.

[Roo1976]

3 hours ago, Mboto Gorge said:

By these clowns in charge? They couldn’t address an envelope 

emails..............apparently these days.....................!

[CylonKing]

Macca MotM for me, some excellent saves, good punches and good kicking. Great performance!

Scienza is not right for this team. Too forward thinking, too positive, always looking to shoot. That's not the Southampton way. You always, always look to the side and/or behind you first. Driving forward and shooting is an absolute final, final option. Nothing will come from it.

We march...backwards or sideways, usually!

[Wade Garrett]

7 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Absolutely pointless sacking him. This season will be a learning curve and time for development. Play-offs not out of the question, but do we really want to get promoted and be humiliated again next season? I won’t turn down promotion if it comes, but in some ways continuing to develop and going up stronger the year after might be a better outcome. 

You can relax about promotion this season.

Or for that matter, any season, with this manager.

[Sheaf Saint]

9 hours ago, warsash saint said:

Yes i know Downes is playing awful, but jeez the dog's abuse the poor guy got today every time he got near the ball was embarrassing - no wonder his confidence is shot when our cretinous fans give a huge cheer for completing a pass.

 

9 hours ago, Football Special said:

I'd like to think any sensible fans don't hate Downs, clearly he's not been very good but criticism should be aimed at hierarchy at the club who decided to sign him and then management team who pick him to play. 

There was one guy stood not far from me, and there's always a handful of these twats at every away game, who had obviously been on the marching powder and was trying to impress his mates he was stood with. He spent the last 15 mins of the game continuously shouting the most  embarrassing shit aimed at Downs even when he was nowhere near the ball. It's just a good thing that he was so far back and up in the corner of the stand that there's no chance Downs himself could have heard it.

[chownie20]

9 hours ago, Forester said:

Thought we started well, and again Stewart looked a proper target man.  Armstrong and Stewart for me is a good partnership in this division.  McCarthy again showing he stops more shots than Baz.

However, as soon as Stewart goes off we lack that figurehead and Downs is clearly not the answer.  Feels like a massive transfer mistake unless he really turns things around.

We either need to learn to play a different way with Archer and Armstrong, which is possible but hard when you will inevitably not be playing too often on the break, or can I suggest a radical and not ideal alternative.  Could Aribo be used as a back to goal striker and link up play?  Cannot be any worse than Downs.

Exactly my thoughts - use Aribo there

[Jack]

What’s really doing my head in is we keep employing managers who seem not to see the glaringly obvious us fans talk about:

Bazunu was never going to be good enough - it’s cost us points 

Manning can’t defend for shit - it’s cost us points 

Stephens is shit….

Downs is beyond shit…

Arma can’t play up top on his own…

Archer can’t play up top on his own…

It all seems so obvious but takes a manager 2 months and shitloads of games without winning to work it out?

[Wade Garrett]

6 minutes ago, Jack said:

What’s really doing my head in is we keep employing managers who seem not to see the glaringly obvious us fans talk about:

Bazunu was never going to be good enough - it’s cost us points 

Manning can’t defend for shit - it’s cost us points 

Stephens is shit….

Downs is beyond shit…

Arma can’t play up top on his own…

Archer can’t play up top on his own…

It all seems so obvious but takes a manager 2 months and shitloads of games without winning to work it out?

Unbelievable isn’t it.

Clueless from the top.

[Thripp87]

Yet another game where Still would have had to turn his laptop off before saving.

Fellows was our best player first half mid week, Scienza was today, yet he hooked both. I dare say Scienza will be dropped against Swansea. 
 

Surely when you have supposedly better players the tactics should be to attack at all times? He persists with 5 at the back which is negative and to make matters worse gives Downs minutes. I can only assume he has a preference for a big centre forward to lump it up too, in which case we would be better getting Nathan Jones back. 
 

As I said last weekend, stop talking about promotion if we put a run together, it’s embarrassing with the current set up. 

[Whitey Grandad]

11 hours ago, saintant said:

Just watched the brief highlights and Manning needs dropping for his actions leading to their goal. He may not have felt it was a Derby throw but he is experienced enough to know that once a lino has given it to them no amount of whinging is going to change his mind. He allowed them to take a throw to an unchallenged player and cross it into the box to another unchallenged player who scored with a free header. Edwards needs to be far stronger there. Lots wrong with the goal for Still to look at but Manning must be made to pay for what he did.

It was only a throw in FFS. Nobody ever scores from a throw in.

Unless Manning decides to stand around arguing and forgets his day job.

[benjii]

12 hours ago, Vancouver Saint said:

For all our issues about three or four at the back, GK woes, best midfield combo, the lack of an out-and-out striker, Will Still - the game is about goals - and we don't score them.

Goal difference is the most telling stat. Coventry +20 Southampton -1 

How about focusing single-mindedly on scoring goals Still?

He doesn't seem to have any clue other than "get it to the wide men".

[benjii]

41 minutes ago, Jack said:

What’s really doing my head in is we keep employing managers who seem not to see the glaringly obvious us fans talk about:

Bazunu was never going to be good enough - it’s cost us points 

Manning can’t defend for shit - it’s cost us points 

Stephens is shit….

Downs is beyond shit…

Arma can’t play up top on his own…

Archer can’t play up top on his own…

It all seems so obvious but takes a manager 2 months and shitloads of games without winning to work it out?

Right, but what's really mental is that we have the same group of coaches stinking the place out that we've had for the last couple of years too!

What the fuck do they contribute?

[IFHP]

For a lower mid table side going away to a relegation threatened side a point is a good result. 
 

Good goal from Armstrong but after that we let Derby back in it and if it wasn’t for McCarthy we would have lost.

 

 

 

 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, benjii said:

He doesn't seem to have any clue other than "get it to the wide men".

sit back, pass around the defensive 3rd, get it wide (with our best winger at Wing Back, currently), lump it into the box, whilst leaving the middle of the park wide open. it has been like this almost every game

Just shit. It was obvious against Wrexham that for Will Still to succeed we needed someone like Keiffer Moore to be at Saints and fit for 46 league games. 

Will Still is no where near ready for this job. He might be a very good coach/manager one day, but not yet.

[Wade Garrett]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

sit back, pass around the defensive 3rd, get it wide (with our best winger at Wing Back, currently), lump it into the box, whilst leaving the middle of the park wide open. it has been like this almost every game

Just shit. It was obvious against Wrexham that for Will Still to succeed we needed someone like Keiffer Moore to be at Saints and fit for 46 league games. 

Will Still is no where near ready for this job. He might be a very good coach/manager one day, but not yet.

He’s about as good a manager as Downs is a striker.

 

[Wade Garrett]

Just now, Wade Garrett said:

He’s about as good a manager as Downs is a striker.

 

And he’s making Spors look an idiot.  Which he very well may be.

[Lymington Saint]

Was at the game yesterday. There were moments when we looked really good especially before Stewart went off. Then seemed to lose shape. Still clearly likes to play with a target man. Desperately need cover for Stewart. Downs was dreadful. Simply unable to hold the ball up. Think we are all forgetting how much of a mess we were in last season. Going to take a while to sort it out. Still needs to be given the season in my view and then take stock