New Manager Debate

[Saint_clark]

9 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Of course. It's still quite unlikely barring a total turn around from a new manager but it could still be done. Writing off the whole season at this point is silly and even if we don't make the playoffs we need some good momentum and a settled manager ready for a push next year.

We're 10 points off the playoffs with 99 points still to play for, anyone writing off this season is an idiot. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

We're 10 points off the playoffs with 99 points still to play for, anyone writing off this season is an idiot. 

Totally agree. If we fall short, it is important the standards and momentum starts as soon as possible for next season. 

Next season with Wolves in the league, or at least one of the bigger clubs it seems. 

[Farmer Saint]

15 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

We're 10 points off the playoffs with 99 points still to play for, anyone writing off this season is an idiot. 

Oh yeah, we've got loads of time, it's why it was important to get the manager changed as quickly as possible so we don't pass up the opportunity.

[Zorba]

34 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

We're 10 points off the playoffs with 99 points still to play for, anyone writing off this season is an idiot. 

I’ve written it off and I am an idiot. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be preparing for next season with a bit of forethought. If we can’t get a decent manager right now, or players that we need in January, get in capable temporary replacements who are currently out of work on short term contracts. This would give us time to source the staff and players we really need to mount a charge for the PL next season with a new manager and players, some of whom, may be capable of holding their own in the top flight.. unlike the current squad and coaching staff.

Edited 9 hours ago by Zorba

[hypochondriac]

Personally I'm looking forward to a manager who uses Fellows and possibly Azaz properly so we can at least slightly see what they're capable of.

[Wade Garrett]

Writing the season off?  Can I get a refund on my season ticket then!

Make the right appointment and we can still go up.  Procrastination seems to be the order of the day though.  That and more clever-bollocks thinking.  I fucking despair of this club and the clowns in charge.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

We're 10 points off the playoffs with 99 points still to play for, anyone writing off this season is an idiot. 

Even if a miracle takes place and we make the play offs and win, do you really think we won't endure another miserable season in the PL? 

We are better off building sensibly and regrouping this season. Getting rid of the problem people and consolidating the foundations.

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Even if a miracle takes place and we make the play offs and win, do you really think we won't endure another miserable season in the PL? 

We are better off building sensibly and regrouping this season. Getting rid of the problem people and consolidating the foundations.

Miserable, like the 3 promoted clubs right now?

Sunderland have what? 150% of our points total of last season...and that is before bonfire night!!

Edited 8 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Miserable, like the 3 promoted clubs right now?

Sunderland have what? 150% of our points total of last season...and that is before bonfire night!!

I think under the current regime it would be another miserable experience. We need an entire gutting to be in a position to compete at any level I think.

I genuinely don't see any chance of promotion this year, next year or the year after - it will be more a case of looking over our shoulder in the years to come. The ownership have regressed the quality of this club year on year and that isn't just going to change over night.

Edited 8 hours ago by S-Clarke

[John B]

9 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Even if a miracle takes place and we make the play offs and win, do you really think we won't endure another miserable season in the PL? 

We are better off building sensibly and regrouping this season. Getting rid of the problem people and consolidating the foundations.

That is much too sensible for some on here 

[benjii]

2 hours ago, goodymatt said:

He’s from Portsmouth I think, is a United fan though but you can see some anti-Saints bias creep out.

Sounds like a mega-cunt.

[benjii]

22 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Even if a miracle takes place and we make the play offs and win, do you really think we won't endure another miserable season in the PL? 

We are better off building sensibly and regrouping this season. Getting rid of the problem people and consolidating the foundations.

If the owners have learnt from last time and, instead of signing Champ-level players in droves, actually push the boat out for a proper CF, CB and CM then it might not be so ass.

[benjii]

12 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I think under the current regime it would be another miserable experience. We need an entire gutting to be in a position to compete at any level I think.

I genuinely don't see any chance of promotion this year, next year or the year after - it will be more a case of looking over our shoulder in the years to come. The ownership have regressed the quality of this club year on year and that isn't just going to change over night.

If true, even more important to get promoted and get some cash through the door.

 

Edit: alternatively, hasten thee adminystrytion and banish Sports Heathens from our land.

Edited 8 hours ago by benjii

[saintant]

15 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Miserable, like the 3 promoted clubs right now?

Sunderland have what? 150% of our points total of last season...and that is before bonfire night!!

Sunderland recruited the right sort of players to compete in the Premier League and it has clearly worked for them so far. Until we start recruiting in a similar fashion we'll never survive among the elite. Men against boys springs to mind.

[Football Special]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

We're 10 points off the playoffs with 99 points still to play for, anyone writing off this season is an idiot. 

Got to still give it a go of course.

But where will our goals come from? Sneak some 1-0 wins and get to January to recruit? 

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

He is a fucking helmet. Stunning that he is some sort of made up football 'correspondent' on TalkSport.

When he has his segment about transfers or goings on, he fill the time as much as he can giving loads of fluff as his opinion, not what he apparently knows.

Remarkable rise from him, to be fair.  He lives around Southampton doesn't he?

my favourite one of his was when he said on twitter we had no interest in Charlie Austin, less than 24 hours later he signed. When i reminded him of it a while later he blocked me.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, Zorba said:

I’ve written it off and I am an idiot. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be preparing for next season with a bit of forethought.

Didn't we already do that last season ready for this season?

[Lighthouse]

39 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Even if a miracle takes place and we make the play offs and win, do you really think we won't endure another miserable season in the PL? 

We are better off building sensibly and regrouping this season. Getting rid of the problem people and consolidating the foundations.

People keep saying this and it never makes sense. We're going to have a massive uphill task recruiting for the PL whether it's next summer, the year after or in eight years time. If we don't go up this year, all that will happen is that better players like Leo will start wanting out when PL or foreign clubs start showing an interest.

How's Sheff United's second season going?

[imadirtyurchin]

44 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Even if a miracle takes place and we make the play offs and win, do you really think we won't endure another miserable season in the PL? 

We are better off building sensibly and regrouping this season. Getting rid of the problem people and consolidating the foundations.

See I would fear this - but it’s not a given. Strengthen the spine of the team: Ramsdale back, 2x CBs , 1xCM, 1x no. 9 and we’d be fine. We just need to make sure that we recruit to improve the first team not to bulk out the squad like last time. So it means probably £40m on a starting quality, physical number 9. £30m at least on the other positions. So £130m on 4xstarting players rather £160m or whatever it was on 11 crappy squad players who aren’t good enough.

whether we’d do it - and get it right is another matter.

[CamSaint]

14 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

How's Sheff United's second season going?

I see that after all the fanfare surrounding Wilder's return, he has lost 5 of his 8 games back in charge (including losing to Saints). His 9 points from 8 games is very similar to Still's efforts, so I'm not sure he'll be feeling too comfortable there yet.

[Appy]

35 minutes ago, Turkish said:

my favourite one of his was when he said on twitter we had no interest in Charlie Austin, less than 24 hours later he signed. When i reminded him of it a while later he blocked me.

Don’t forget him saying Ings and Bertrand were signing new deals

[hypochondriac]

18 minutes ago, imadirtyurchin said:

See I would fear this - but it’s not a given. Strengthen the spine of the team: Ramsdale back, 2x CBs , 1xCM, 1x no. 9 and we’d be fine. We just need to make sure that we recruit to improve the first team not to bulk out the squad like last time. So it means probably £40m on a starting quality, physical number 9. £30m at least on the other positions. So £130m on 4xstarting players rather £160m or whatever it was on 11 crappy squad players who aren’t good enough.

whether we’d do it - and get it right is another matter.

Ramsdale isn't coming back. We need a replacement keeper.

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, imadirtyurchin said:

See I would fear this - but it’s not a given. Strengthen the spine of the team: Ramsdale back, 2x CBs , 1xCM, 1x no. 9 and we’d be fine. We just need to make sure that we recruit to improve the first team not to bulk out the squad like last time. So it means probably £40m on a starting quality, physical number 9. £30m at least on the other positions. So £130m on 4xstarting players rather £160m or whatever it was on 11 crappy squad players who aren’t good enough.

whether we’d do it - and get it right is another matter.

This has been the problem for years, even before SR. Buying quantity over quality, buying players for what we can sell them for in 2 years time rather than buying quality now. You can count on one hand the amount of decent, proven players we've brought over the last 10 years or so. Why they do the same thing over and over again is just bizarre. You've got clubs like Brighton, Bournemouth and Forest regularly spending 25m+ on players every window whereas despite having more than a decade of Premier league money were still shopping in the bargain basement. When you think about how much we've wasted over the years on centre backs trying to find the new Van Dijk when we could easily have picked up a couple of good, solid experienced Premier league players and built a back 4 round them. Same with goalkeepers, dicking around with Baz, we could have even picked up better than him on a free transfer over the last few seasons. Its absolutely ridiculous. 

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Even if a miracle takes place and we make the play offs and win, do you really think we won't endure another miserable season in the PL? 

We are better off building sensibly and regrouping this season. Getting rid of the problem people and consolidating the foundations.

Once again I’m here having to point out to supposedly sensible people that talk of ‘regrouping this season’ is all well and good but will involve not winning quite a lot of our remaining matches so I don’t expect to see posts like ‘this manager has been really disappointing’ when that happens. 

[Mboto Gorge]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

This has been the problem for years, even before SR. Buying quantity over quality, buying players for what we can sell them for in 2 years time rather than buying quality now. You can count on one hand the amount of decent, proven players we've brought over the last 10 years or so. Why they do the same thing over and over again is just bizarre. You've got clubs like Brighton, Bournemouth and Forest regularly spending 25m+ on players every window whereas despite having more than a decade of Premier league money were still shopping in the bargain basement. When you think about how much we've wasted over the years on centre backs trying to find the new Van Dijk when we could easily have picked up a couple of good, solid experienced Premier league players and built a back 4 round them. Same with goalkeepers, dicking around with Baz, we could have even picked up better than him on a free transfer over the last few seasons. It’s absolutely ridiculous. 

Yep, it’s not rocket science is it, but we seem to make it extra complicated, and herein lies the reason we now find ourselves just above the relegation zone in the championship. 

[Dirkdiggler]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Even if a miracle takes place and we make the play offs and win, do you really think we won't endure another miserable season in the PL? 

We are better off building sensibly and regrouping this season. Getting rid of the problem people and consolidating the foundations.

Problem is I suspect SR wouldn’t care if we yoyo’d as the premier league money is ridiculous.

[imadirtyurchin]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Ramsdale isn't coming back. We need a replacement keeper.

If we’re back in the prem next year - I don’t know that is a given is it? Have you seen it confirmed somewhere? I guess whatever fee we would get for him would have to go straight out on another  starting choice goalkeeper.

[Ekelund24]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Sunderland recruited the right sort of players to compete in the Premier League and it has clearly worked for them so far. Until we start recruiting in a similar fashion we'll never survive among the elite. Men against boys springs to mind.

100%, they signed a class 33yo in Xhaka that will set the standards and the culture of the club, also adding improvements in most areas. For some reason SR don't seem to understand that signing some good young players for profit would be helped if they went in a team with experienced players who could elevate them. 

 

[SaintsBarry74]

20 minutes ago, imadirtyurchin said:

If we’re back in the prem next year - I don’t know that is a given is it? Have you seen it confirmed somewhere? I guess whatever fee we would get for him would have to go straight out on another  starting choice goalkeeper.

Derby we’re coming for you!

[Osvaldorama]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

People keep saying this and it never makes sense. We're going to have a massive uphill task recruiting for the PL whether it's next summer, the year after or in eight years time. If we don't go up this year, all that will happen is that better players like Leo will start wanting out when PL or foreign clubs start showing an interest.

How's Sheff United's second season going?

Completely agree, the idea that we need more time at a lower level to “rebuild” is fanciful. 
 

We need to get back up ASAP to get the money rolling in. As much as I hate VAR, the PL etc. to the point I actually prefer the championship, we have to go back up as soon as possible. 
 

Especially with these owners - they’ve managed to make us worse by spending crazy amounts. Imagine what will happen when the parachute payments stop. Huuuge trouble 

[Zorba]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Didn't we already do that last season ready for this season?

Football is a game of mistakes. Whoever makes the fewest mistakes wins - Johan Cruyff.

 

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

We're 10 points off the playoffs with 99 points still to play for, anyone writing off this season is an idiot. 

Boro were 21st when Carrick took over. He got them in the playoffs that season.

I think he'd be ideal for us. He certainly got Azaz and Archer playing well in his time there. 

[SWLondon Saint]

2 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Even if a miracle takes place and we make the play offs and win, do you really think we won't endure another miserable season in the PL? 

We are better off building sensibly and regrouping this season. Getting rid of the problem people and consolidating the foundations.

You honestly think it'll be easier next season if Wolves, West Ham and Forest are down here going on the current table? If you can get promoted, get promoted has to be the rule.

[Zorba]

3 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

You honestly think it'll be easier next season if Wolves, West Ham and Forest are down here going on the current table? If you can get promoted, get promoted has to be the rule.

Some good awaydays right there!

[Appy]

1 minute ago, Zorba said:

Some good awaydays right there!

Wolves and West Ham are possibly the two worst. 

[jamesfp1]

Any manager rumours?

[saintant]

24 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Completely agree, the idea that we need more time at a lower level to “rebuild” is fanciful. 
 

We need to get back up ASAP to get the money rolling in. As much as I hate VAR, the PL etc. to the point I actually prefer the championship, we have to go back up as soon as possible. 
 

Especially with these owners - they’ve managed to make us worse by spending crazy amounts. Imagine what will happen when the parachute payments stop. Huuuge trouble 

Maybe things will slightly improve because rather than spending crazy amounts on rubbish they'll be spending small amounts on rubbish 🙂

[saintant]

16 minutes ago, Zorba said:

Football is a game of mistakes. Whoever makes the fewest mistakes wins - Johan Cruyff.

 

Now I get why we've only won once at home in over a year.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

2 hours ago, benjii said:

If the owners have learnt from last time and, instead of signing Champ-level players in droves, actually push the boat out for a proper CF, CB and CM then it might not be so ass.

Sunderland have a mix of youngsters and champ players along with who they bought.

Also shows having a game plan and not being Man City aldi version can work too.

[southamptonfc]

4 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

We're 10 points off the playoffs with 99 points still to play for, anyone writing off this season is an idiot. 

Agree but after we appoint another nobody as manager and don't fix the striker problem in the transfer window, success will be avoiding relegation.

[Wade Garrett]

41 minutes ago, jamesfp1 said:

Any manager rumours?

I think you’re on the wrong thread mush 😂

[Saint Billy]

I keep seeing Tony Mowbray's name being linked. Please god just be click bait.

[Midfield_General]

In the last few seasons the points needed to make the play-offs have been:

2024/25: 68

2023/24: 73

2022/23: 69

2021/22: 75

So let's take a probable worst case scenario and say that 75 points is pretty likely to get you into the play-offs.

We'd need 63 more points from our remaining 33 games, or an average of 1.9 points per game. 

So we just need to go on an unbeaten run from tonight until the end of the season, and if we can just spawn wins in 15 of those 33 then we can park the bus and draw the other 18 games 0-0. 

Over to you, Tonda. 

[Forester]

Just now, Midfield_General said:

In the last few seasons the points needed to make the play-offs have been:

2024/25: 68

2023/24: 73

2022/23: 69

2021/22: 75

So let's take a probable worst case scenario and say that 75 points is pretty likely to get you into the play-offs.

We'd need 63 more points from our remaining 33 games, or an average of 1.9 points per game. 

So we just need to go on an unbeaten run from tonight until the end of the season, and if we can just spawn wins in 15 of those 33 then we can park the bus and draw the other 18 games 0-0. 

Over to you, Tonda. 

Good post.  To get automatic promotion, the original goal, it needed two points per game to finish on 92.  Usually enough.

What you are pointing out, correctly, is that FROM HERE we need to hit the originally required run rate to achieve play offs.  No evidence that we will, but shows it’s not a miracle required with the right coaching and right investment in January.

[saintstowin]

Odd as it may be to think about promotion whilst sat 21st and rubbish, I'm not writing this season off. But my writing the season on is more about wanting to see progress, wins, good feeling. All very achievable. If it takes us to 7th then I'll probably be gutted we didn't make the play offs but at least we'll have shown we can be a football team again.

Actual promotion for me is not a fantasy although unlikely, and if we did achieve it some lessons will have been learned and we'll be in a good place football-wise to not be as awful in the PL again.

For now I just want a win or two and a good manager. 

[Daft Kerplunk]

This article (like Tony Pulis or not) shows how difficult it will be for a new manager/head coach in a set up like Saints, which is a fairly embeded set-up like the one he talks about.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c781v7zz0w2o  It all has to be aligned for it to work well and that is something we have spectacularly failed at so far.  

[capitalsaint]

1 hour ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Boro were 21st when Carrick took over. He got them in the playoffs that season.

I think he'd be ideal for us. He certainly got Azaz and Archer playing well in his time there. 

It's a powerful argument!

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

Especially with these owners - they’ve managed to make us worse by spending crazy amounts. Imagine what will happen when the parachute payments stop. Huuuge trouble 

Pretty much the most realistic way I see of us getting rid of SR is for the parachute payments to run out, commercial revenues decline, financial trouble and administration hitting, and us ending up with a relegation to the 3rd tier and a points deduction - but at least with new owners.

That may be pessimistic of me, but frankly I've seen very little from them that implies they are capable of delivering a sustained period of success - and from where we are now, that is what is required to get us back to being the established premier league club that we were under gao/Ralph/semmens etc.

So, if you adopt the approach that SR are a slow death (that will kill the fanbase for a generation and cause awful damage to the clubs standing / facilities /  academy etc), the argument could be made quite easily that this next management appointment by spors really is their last throw of the dice. We will never have a better chance to compete in the championship under SR than this season and next season... Scary times after that.

Edited 3 hours ago by Saint86

[LegalEagle]

17 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Pretty much the most realistic way I see of us getting rid of SR is for the parachute payments to run out, commercial revenues decline, financial trouble and administration hitting, and us ending up with a relegation to the 3rd tier and a points deduction - but at least with new owners.

That may be pessimistic of me, but frankly I've seen very little from them that implies they are capable of delivering a sustained period of success - and from where we are now, that is what is required to get us back to being the established premier league club that we were under gap/Ralph/semmens etc.

So, if you adopt the approach that SR are a slow death (that will kill the fanbase for a generation and cause awful damage to the clubs standing / facilities /  academy etc), the argument could be made quite easily that this next management appointment by spors really is their last throw of the dice. We will never have a better chance to compete in the championship under SR than this season and next season... Scary times after that.

I’m no advocate for these owners but can I just point out that they are not all bad. They have been prepared to spend decent levels of cash - last time and this time in the Championship - compared to other teams at this level. The problem has been that most of it has been spent on shite players and paying off shite managers. They cannot be accused of not putting their hands in their pockets.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, LegalEagle said:

I’m no advocate for these owners but can I just point out that they are not all bad. They have been prepared to spend decent levels of cash - last time and this time in the Championship - compared to other teams at this level. The problem has been that most of it has been spent on shite players and paying off shite managers. They cannot be accused of not putting their hands in their pockets.

They've spent the money that SFC has earnt on SFC (and other teams within the multiclub model!).  No 'extra' cash has been put into the club.