Watford 2-1 Saints - Match Thread

[Osvaldorama]

2 minutes ago, Bobsmith said:

Dobbin looks rubbish to me. Either a poor touch, poor pass or he goes backwards. Most of the team looked out of sorts but playing Dobbin instead of Azaz and moving Scienza central seems a mistake

Sadly, I agree, complete waste to have Scienza in the middle, need him causing problems outside. 
 

Very early days for Dobbin, so not gonna judge him yet. But not seeing anything that makes me think he’s an upgrade so far. 

[Sheaf Saint]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Probably the worst half of football we've had since the Leicester game. Not caused them any problems at all. 

Actually it wasn't overall anywhere near as bad as the first half against Boro in the playoffs. But the difference being we at least (somehow) managed to avoid conceding in that game.

[Tanlee]

As bad as the glaring mistakes have been, the centre of the park has been shocking 

[HarvSFC]

Two half time subs like Leicester please. Fellows and Azaz for me with Scienza moving out wide left. Need more ball carrying threat up the pitch and while Matsuki keeps it simple, he isn't a difference maker, have hopes that Fellows will come good this season. Azaz for the bit of class and seeing balls that others don't see.

Defence clearly a problem. Stephens the architect of it all still and as I said earlier I was starting to get back on his side as he did have a good end to last season, but today he has been horrific.

Midfield, Downes and Bragg are too similar. Nothing will go through them. Bragg the backup for Downes when he inevitably gets a suspension/falls ill. Not both. Was surprised we were going into the season without a Charles replacement. Didn't think his sale would be a surprise to the board and thought they'd have a plan to replace him.

Larin's had nothing to feed off with the players behind him creating nothing. We're giving Watford a lot of space and they're giving us none.

[BallBoy]

Scienza anonymous since being clattered twice. Matsuki constantly guided outside. Dobbin and Larin poor so far so no attack.

[tdmickey3]

Well that was pretty crap, zero attempts on target…

Captain ball watching calamity is back

Dreadfull shank for the first and some special ball watching from Mannings shit pass.

Stephens had no one to mark so instead of engaging the 2nd goal scorer he waits till he is bearing down on goal…..  this is standard Steven’s ball watching is his specialty.

Need a huge improvement 2nd half.

Keeping Stephens is proving again to be an ridiculous decision we make over and over

Edited 2 hours ago by tdmickey3

[die Mannyschaft]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

This is pretty much the same team that played auto-promotion form for the second half of last season... So, what's the difference? We seem well off the pace compared to Watford, so that surely comes down to an inadequate pre-season, doesn't it? A team that goes 20 odd games unbeaten and almost beats Man City in an FA Cup semi-final doesn't suddenly become shite, surely...?

I think its also a confidence thing, sounds like no Saints players wants to make a mistake so no one taking the lead or taking charge of situations. Every team is going to want to beat Saints and will play 100% and that's another issue Saints need to deal with as tackles and effort will be non stop.

We are the team clubs now hate and want to win againts

 

[Disco Stu]

At least our performance has distracted from the kit.

[Midfield_General]

Well, that was a wake-up call.

Out-pressed, out-muscled, a defensive shambles and playing two up top has left us short in midfield. The shape is all wrong. Since when do we play 4-4-2 with Leo as second striker? Have we done it in pre-season? Seems a very odd choice. 

Add in two awful individual defensive errors and Stephens looking like he hasn't realised he's playing in a football match and it's a pretty sobering way to start a season where we absolutely need to get off to a flyer. 

[skintsaint]

1 minute ago, Osvaldorama said:

Sadly, I agree, complete waste to have Scienza in the middle, need him causing problems outside. 

Can't see why after playing Scienza on the left and Dobbin in the middle all pre-season and last week, they changed for this game.

[austsaint]

17 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Bragg is an absolute passenger.  Not good enough.

There's been a lot of expectation put on this lads shoulders.   At this stage Bragg looks like a safe, recycling midfielder making simple passes.   Not having Charles or Jander to partner Downes has weakened us today.   Bragg is not ready to be a starting cm, and on his showing today, may never be.

[carljack]

5 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Can’t pick out anyone that has had a good half there 

 

 

 Downes,possibly.

[SNSUN]

At least the window is still open. Pretty obvious where we need reinforcements. 

[saintant]

Doddin is playing left wing and Scienza wandering around the middle is not working. Take off Dobbin and Matsuki for Azaz and Fellows. Get Leo on the wing and Fellows on the other.

We just don't look compact on this shape and not sure why we've taken Leo off the left wing.

A draw would be a miracle now as we are losing our duels and second balls.

Capn Jack has been a liability.

[HarvSFC]

At least the Community Shield is on in half an hour.

[OttawaSaint]

Just now, SNSUN said:

At least the window is still open. Pretty obvious where we need reinforcements. 

Can we throw Capn Jack out of that window?

Being back defenestration!

[redkeith]

Don't think Bragg or Downs know which one is supposed to be sitting back. No midfield cover  for either goal.

Stephens  plays a suicide pass for the first. For the 2nd he runs back parallel with touchline , he should be running diagonally toward the goalscorer.  

Shocking all round 

[tdmickey3]

7 minutes ago, Zorba said:

Did we have a shot on target?

Nope

[Saint NL]

Sky sports not exactly singing Stephens praises with the goal analysis 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, SNSUN said:

At least the window is still open. Pretty obvious where we need reinforcements. 

If we have the money to get players in that is

[Zorba]

Over to Eckert then. Let’s see if he can turn this shit around.

[Disco Stu]

Horrific statistic. Coupled with our poor record at Vicarage road, the writing was on the wall.

[bangkoksaint]

If we want promotion we simply can’t afford any games like this. Personally I can’t see past mid table mediocrity

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Could it be a case of too many players not 100% certain on their immediate futures, so their heads aren’t completely focussed on this game and thinking about their futures. 
 

I wish the transfer window shut before the season starts. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Behind Enemy Lines

[qwertyell]

Shite going forward, shambles in defence, midfield nonexistent. 

Stephens has been awful, culpable for both goals. Bragg will not be "fine" as a Charles replacement. Spaffing our limited funds on Dobbin looks terrible business - he's been poor. 

No physical presence in the middle of the park allows cloggers to push us around. And a chronic lack of pace in defence leaves us desperately vulnerable to the counter attack. 

And we're bracing ourselves for selling our better players.

Exciting times. Enough to get you off your seats. 

[Tommy]

Well that half was garbage. 
Downes playing safe, Masuki at his ineffective best and weak on ball, and Jack Stevens being Jack Stevens basically sums up that half. 
 

 

[Edmonton Saint]

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

Horrific statistic. Coupled with our poor record at Vicarage road, the writing was on the wall.

Didn’t we beat Wrexham on the opening day last season ?

Edited 2 hours ago by Edmonton Saint

[sockeye]

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

Horrific statistic. Coupled with our poor record at Vicarage road, the writing was on the wall.

We beat Wrexham last season

[Disco Stu]

Just now, Edmonton Saint said:

Didn’t we hear Wrexham on the opening day last season ?

Good point. Don't trust AI kids.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

Anyone who thing that this team is going up automatically is deluded.

My preseason prediction was 9th or 10th. Based on what I've seen so far they'll be lucky to make the top half of the table. 

I don't see anything changing with Tonda on charge. He made a mockery of the club and ruined the fans dreams. 

Shame on anyone who thinks that was acceptable and should be forgiven.

[Lord Duckhunter]

They’re getting acres in midfield, Bragg has been woeful in there, doing an invisible man impression. I’m all for flexibility, but playing Leo differently clearly hasn’t worked & Dobbin has been bang average in Leo’s proper position. Should have switched it over after 20 mins. Matski hasn’t been much better. Terrible defensively & too passive and safe in possession. Next goal is the winner imo, if we get it early I fancy a 3-2, but if we continue in 2nd gear we’ll get beat 3-1 

[coalman]

Two stupid goals to concede. Decent subs and we're still in this. We looked well on top before we gifted them the first.

[OttawaSaint]

2 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Horrific statistic. Coupled with our poor record at Vicarage road, the writing was on the wall.

2-1 vs Wrexham last season?

[Saint NL]

2 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Horrific statistic. Coupled with our poor record at Vicarage road, the writing was on the wall.

Didn't we beat Wrexham last time season?

[vectraman]

2 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Horrific statistic. Coupled with our poor record at Vicarage road, the writing was on the wall.

We beat Wrexham first game last season….

[whelk]

Stephens needs to be hooked. A player that gets complacent and needs to be taught that was diabolical and you aren’t playing if you play that badly.

[Jack]

Has Tonda tried to be too clever here? Just play our best wingers on the wings, a 10 as a 10, let them worry about us. We’re moving the ball so slowly but is that because we don’t know where the runners are supposed to be with this weird setup? We’ve had players getting in each others way loads. 
 

Tbf it looked alright for 10 mins but Watford kicked us off the park, been dreadful since. Stephens needs to have a real word with himself over that performance, taking absolutely no responsibility. We’ve gifted them something to hang onto. 

[sfc4prem]

I daresay Watford look like the better coached team. Tonda, earn your paycheck

[gammon cheeks]

Bragg , Matsuki off 

Azaz and Fellows on 

Feel sorry for Downes , trying to do everything 

[Disco Stu]

Apparently we beat Wrexham first game last season.

[NewYorkSaint]

Some thoughts....  

1) It's too early to panic. We made two mistakes and were punished ruthlessly twice.  Neither the mistakes nor that level of ruthless  punishment are likely to repeat.

2) Football needs to do something to prevent the intentional physical targeting of a player. When it's clear that two players are willing to commit yellow card offenses against the same player... why isn't that the equivalent to a single player getting two yellow cards.  Hearing Joe Tessem say "yeah, that's football" made me a little sick. We can't have the playbook to beat Saints being 'hack down their best player'.  

3) Everything hangs on the next goal. I've thought Dobbin and Larin look like a strong combo in the buildup play. There's a goal coming.  We may need to use the bench wisely.   A draw is going to feel like a win.  I'm going 3-3.  But this second half will show what character we have....

[Convict Colony]

guys the only thing more predictable than us losing at HT is the volume of knee jerk reactions on players lol.

we come back to draw this.

[sfc4prem]

Just now, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Anyone who thing that this team is going up automatically is deluded.

My preseason prediction was 9th or 10th. Based on what I've seen so far they'll be lucky to make the top half of the table. 

I don't see anything changing with Tonda on charge. He made a mockery of the club and ruined the fans dreams. 

Shame on anyone who thinks that was acceptable and should be forgiven.

How can you make these grand judgements on one half of league football?

[Picard]

Lack of pre-match research showing.

[64saint]

Just now, coalman said:

Two stupid goals to concede. Decent subs and we're still in this. We looked well on top before we gifted them the first.

Err,that was all of 10 minutes then 🫤

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Anyone who thing that this team is going up automatically is deluded.

My preseason prediction was 9th or 10th. Based on what I've seen so far they'll be lucky to make the top half of the table. 

I don't see anything changing with Tonda on charge. He made a mockery of the club and ruined the fans dreams. 

Shame on anyone who thinks that was acceptable and should be forgiven.

Soppy twat. Bet you fucking cried

[saintant]

14 minutes ago, trousers said:

This is pretty much the same team that played auto-promotion form for the second half of last season... So, what's the difference? We seem well off the pace compared to Watford, so that surely comes down to an inadequate pre-season, doesn't it? A team that goes 20 odd games unbeaten and almost beats Man City in an FA Cup semi-final doesn't suddenly become shite, surely...?

Playing Dobbin in Scienza's spot and Leo as a second striker is one issue. It's not working.

[OneMrsWallace]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

This is pretty much the same team that played auto-promotion form for the second half of last season... So, what's the difference? We seem well off the pace compared to Watford, so that surely comes down to an inadequate pre-season, doesn't it? A team that goes 20 odd games unbeaten and almost beats Man City in an FA Cup semi-final doesn't suddenly become shite, surely...?

Totally agree. Weird pre-season matches didn't help. I'm guessing our coaches thought we were match fit but now they're in a real match, surely they can see we've fallen short. Needs addressing fast, extra sessions etc. Having said that, Stephens has dropped the team in the proverbial and nobody planned for two terrible defensive errors. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, whelk said:

Stephens needs to be hooked. A player that gets complacent and needs to be taught that was diabolical and you aren’t playing if you play that badly.

We need better at centre half. When Wood is your only other real option there is something wrong. 

[tdmickey3]

1 minute ago, sfc4prem said:

How can you make these grand judgements on one half of league football?

Because he is the epitome of the bed wetter