Pompey Takeover Saga

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/campaigns/passion-for-portsmouth/news/meeting_to_discuss_options_for_pompey_s_future_is_underway_1_3459030

So, on todays agenda:

1)Who is will to pay the loan shark £20million to buy a decrepid, crumbling wreck of a stadium which is a huge H&S liability?

2)Who wants to pay a gun runner £Xmillion (he could demand anything he wants) for a car park?

3)Who wants to pay TBH £38k PW?

4)Who wants to pay £1.6m upfront, and £800k a month to pay HMRC for a bunch of mercenry players?

...

Dont be shy ladies and gentlemen.

(good luck to them though)

One other point of note.

After previous email correspondence, the Football League has at least responded within 48 hours to any issues raised about their dealings with you know who.

Nothing since last Saturday to my emails..

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/campaigns/passion-for-portsmouth/news/meeting_to_discuss_options_for_pompey_s_future_is_underway_1_3459030

 

So, on todays agenda:

 

1)Who is will to pay the loan shark £20million to buy a decrepid, crumbling wreck of a stadium which is a huge H&S liability?

 

2)Who wants to pay a gun runner £Xmillion (he could demand anything he wants) for a car park?

 

3)Who wants to pay TBH £38k PW?

 

4)Who wants to pay £1.6m upfront, and £800k a month to pay HMRC for a bunch of mercenry players?

...

 

Dont be shy ladies and gentlemen.

 

(good luck to them though)

Bloke with the ipad obviously slow as I finished the latest angry birds seasons days ago..

 

QUOTE]

 

The bloke talking needs to work on the ventriloquist act !

'So, basically, we're ****ed - Spongebob won't invest because the patties aren't of sufficient quality and Patrick isn't keen because the bogs won't flush. I'm waiting to hear back from the Flipper consortium but they don't want to pay for a new clock. Westwood's trying to flog copies of 'Financial Management the Pompey Way' in his shop but so far no joy - who's volunteering to cry on Sky Sports News then? Worked last time'

In other news.

I met MLT today. (WOO HOO!)

But more importantly

Speaking to my Golfing Journo who also covers football the basic on the "Court Case" was "doesn't look good does it? seems that there may have been quite a lot of people in the media who maybe didn't love him as much as people thought. A lot of people have taken some time out to go back through their notes and start wondering whether it is worth digging up and into some old stories"

"So says I you're saying that even IF he gets off he's still gonna get screwed"

" Haha don't be daft, if I answer that I know it will go straight onto your thread as "the media" are laying in wait for him"

Oh did I mention? MLT was stalking Tiger today

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/campaigns/passion-for-portsmouth/news/meeting_to_discuss_options_for_pompey_s_future_is_underway_1_3459030

 

So, on todays agenda:

 

1)Who is will to pay the loan shark £20million to buy a decrepid, crumbling wreck of a stadium which is a huge H&S liability?

 

2)Who wants to pay a gun runner £Xmillion (he could demand anything he wants) for a car park?

 

3)Who wants to pay TBH £38k PW?

 

4)Who wants to pay £1.6m upfront, and £800k a month to pay HMRC for a bunch of mercenry players?

...

 

Dont be shy ladies and gentlemen.

 

(good luck to them though)

We did the same thing but nobody had anything like enough money up front. Raising money is feasible but it takes time. In our case the council buying the stadium was a possibility but what killed it and would probably kill this initiative too is running out of time. As long as the administrator of CSI is talking to potential purchasers / time wasters nothing can be started. In the end it will take time. Money can be pledged but it is difficult to start collecting it because if it doesn't happen the money would all have to be given back. With all the donations, bucket collections, etc. donated to the club only £130k was collected. £32m is a monumental amount to pay for a bottomless pit with no assets. The only way for this to succeed is for them to be made the preferential bidder and immediately set about raising the finance etc.

What will probably happen is that various tyrekickers will use up the next three weeks, then with a few days before the hearing these people will be asked to have a go but the time will have run out, HMRC debt will be £2.7m, with another £3m for the next tax bill in March plus the CVA never mind wages and running expenses there will be no time unless a single buyer with the cash steps in as happened to us. Without Markus Leibherr we were gone as time had run out.

Did Pompey ever pay those charities and the small businessmen what was owed to them?

Did Pompey ever pay those charities and the small businessmen what was owed to them?

:lol:

A lot of defensive body language around that table, no one showing leadership qualities, apart from the guy demanding to know who has stolen Sooty.

In London it sounds like his accountant and the dog have run this scam together, I hope they both get long sentences as a result, and pay poor old Harry some compensation for dragging him through court.

In cash.

Hang on, let's just hear that Oxford bit again - did we have an instance there of a club manager holding a significant financial stake in another club?

Mmmm.

And Ho is so obviously like his club, on a wind-up.

£20M from Tesco?

Yeah

Is that from the kitman's son's dog that he walks socially every few weeks?

Now, judging by the fans they interview, who wouldn't want to buy them?

Now, judging by the fans they interview, who wouldn't want to buy them?

 

What a effing mess that he is!

I appears to me like the whole court case is down to arry acting like a petulant 12 year old. Despite signing a contract to say he would get 5% instead of 10% he was on before he has a whining fit at Milan about how he was due 10% (which it looks like he wasn 't). It was Milan giving in to arry but saving money (fairly minimal in the end compared to the size of arrys general wage packet) by doing it without the knowledge of HMRC that has landed them in court. If arry had said (assume a translation into cockney) 'okay, I signed a new contract where my fee is now 5% so I accept that I missed out on some money on the crouch deal but I am well compensated as is' then he would not be in court.

edit

Though I don't think the court case has gone into the second payment he is alleged to have accepted which was later but then even less excuse to ask for extra assuming the scenario's are roughly the same

To me anyone who opens a bank account in Monaco is surely doing it for underhand reasons.

I don't have a bank account in another country and I doubt many on here don't either, so why would a bloke who can hardly write and needs an accountant to pay his gas bill want to open up an account in another country thousands of miles from where he lives.

Just this fact alone shrieks "guilty".

Maybe his accountant should be charged too?

I used to have a soft spot for Harry as on a personal level he was very approachable and once did me a favour (no not involving a brown envelope) but I am starting to think a 12 month custodial sentence might actually teach him that even rich people have to follow the law and pay their taxes. Pompey and him were a dream pairing. Corrupt club=bent geezer! Throw in Mandaric and you have a witch's cauldron.

:lol:

Loving it! :lol:

Now, judging by the fans they interview, who wouldn't want to buy them?

 

Says it all when the most articulate one they could find was the 1/2-naked bellringer

I've always worked hard, so how do I find myself 30 and infinitely poorer than a deceased dog?

Is that a country and western song title?

To me anyone who opens a bank account in Monaco is surely doing it for underhand reasons.

I don't have a bank account in another country and I doubt many on here don't either, so why would a bloke who can hardly write and needs an accountant to pay his gas bill want to open up an account in another country thousands of miles from where he lives.

Just this fact alone shrieks "guilty".

Maybe his accountant should be charged too?

 

I used to have a soft spot for Harry as on a personal level he was very approachable and once did me a favour (no not involving a brown envelope) but I am starting to think a 12 month custodial sentence might actually teach him that even rich people have to follow the law and pay their taxes. Pompey and him were a dream pairing. Corrupt club=bent geezer! Throw in Mandaric and you have a witch's cauldron.

Whilst I tend agree with some of your analysis FF, I think it's far too early to call it. You can bet your bottom dollar that Harry has paid his top dollar for a damn good brief. Either way - even if he is found guilty, I really can't see a custodial sentence for this one. Big old fine perhaps (which Harry can easily afford) - but that's about it.

That said, in the word of good ol' Nick, I think he'll get away with it anyway..!

I wonder how much coffee has gushed over the screen at that... priceless...

I sincerely hope that every jury member can work out that Redknapp is playing them for mugs.

Are they seriously expected to believe that a man of his age has never written a letter in his life, cant spell, writes like a two year old, has never sent an e mail or text message and as a football manager for over 20 years cannot fill out a team sheet properly.

Absolute bull****.

I have a Bank account in the U.K. as well as here in N.Z. Does this mean

that I am to be classed as an "Arry" ?

One thought I've had today about all this.

There's been almost no mention or reference to any of Mandaric's police interviews the whole week - and seeing as the guide given at the beginning was two weeks for the whole trial (defence begins next week apparently) - either the prosecution thinks their only chance is to nail (sorry about the prison ref) Arry and forget about Milan?

Either that, or it'll drag into a third week...

The rumour about the tax bill being paid seems to be without basis.

And as for MP Penny, she was never a Skate fan when I knew her

I sincerely hope that every jury member can work out that Redknapp is playing them for mugs.

Are they seriously expected to believe that a man of his age has never written a letter in his life, cant spell, writes like a two year old, has never sent an e mail or text message and as a football manager for over 20 years cannot fill out a team sheet properly.

 

Absolute bull****.

C'mon, that's a bit unfair on Dirty Harry,

everyone knows Rosie did all his online banking for him...

The rumour about the tax bill being paid seems to be without basis.

 

And as for MP Penny, she was never a Skate fan when I knew her

It really confirms that it is a good thing that no one is putting a penny into the club

One thought I've had today about all this.

 

There's been almost no mention or reference to any of Mandaric's police interviews the whole week - and seeing as the guide given at the beginning was two weeks for the whole trial (defence begins next week apparently) - either the prosecution thinks their only chance is to nail (sorry about the prison ref) Arry and forget about Milan?

 

Either that, or it'll drag into a third week...

One thought I've had today about all this.

 

There's been almost no mention or reference to any of Mandaric's police interviews the whole week - and seeing as the guide given at the beginning was two weeks for the whole trial (defence begins next week apparently) - either the prosecution thinks their only chance is to nail (sorry about the prison ref) Arry and forget about Milan?

 

Either that, or it'll drag into a third week...

Or.....

The defence is pretty poor, and will last about half an hour!

There's only so many times you can say "'e din't do it guv"

****ing brilliant. Fair play!

Whilst I tend agree with some of your analysis FF, I think it's far too early to call it. You can bet your bottom dollar that Harry has paid his top dollar for a damn good brief. Either way - even if he is found guilty, I really can't see a custodial sentence for this one. Big old fine perhaps (which Harry can easily afford) - but that's about it.

 

That said, in the word of good ol' Nick, I think he'll get away with it anyway..!

If, he is, then he will never work in football again, unless a position becomes available in Portsea!

Whilst I tend agree with some of your analysis FF, I think it's far too early to call it. You can bet your bottom dollar that Harry has paid his top dollar for a damn good brief. Either way - even if he is found guilty, I really can't see a custodial sentence for this one. Big old fine perhaps (which Harry can easily afford) - but that's about it.

 

That said, in the word of good ol' Nick, I think he'll get away with it anyway..!

He might have a good brief, but I think this looks a pretty simple case;

1. Is the jury satisfied that money came from Mandaric and ended up with Redknapp?

2. Is the jury satisfied that said monies were not part of a personal arrangement between Mssrs Mandaric and Redknapp?

3. Is the jury satisfied that no UK income tax has been paid on said monies.

Three yesses and both gentlemen are guilty of tax evasion. Full stop. End of. Ignorance is no defence. You havent paid the tax, so here comes the punishment.

As posted a few pages back, the punishments for tax evasion are pretty severe and dealt with on a sliding scale of evaded amount versus premeditation. First offence or not, if guilty both gentleman have had a long time to come clean (personally, I have had an argument with HMRC over £450 for the last 6 months, letters went backwards and forwards, and ultimately I lost. (the final proof from HMRC meant I was wrong and they were right). So, I paid the outstanding tax, plus interest, and we're squared off. HMRC doesn't sneak up behind people and summonds them to court to recover monies. These loonies would have had plenty of opportunity to admit they are wrong and pay the tax. They have chosen to fight it, and I think they will lose and lose handsomly).

Given the amount of tax involved ($295,000 transfered, at 1.5 exchange = best part of £200k, tax and NI call it 50%, a round £100k tax due), then they have moved into second place in the seriousness table. On the premeditation stakes, I would suggest that the length of time that HMRC has been investigating, coupled with the lack of transparency from the pair of them, would be dimly viewed by a court.

Whilst a custodial sentence would appear harsh for a first offence, you have to understand that this an extremely serious offence (the charge is defrauding the public purse, which carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment). A 15 month custodial is small beer compared to life.....

only a week to go and we'll find out :-)

Today must qualify as one of the best ever for comedy value on this thread.

First we had sussexsaint's rendition of the the joker (or JoCa). "Some people call me a Skate cowboy....." Pure genius.

Then we had old Rosie Ho coming out with gems like Tescos are going to give PFC £20 million for land that they do not even own. Pure comedy gold.

Then to cap it all we have MLG's Spurs team sheet. Absolutely brilliant.

Can this all ever be bettered????

I have a Bank account in the U.K. as well as here in N.Z. Does this mean

that I am to be classed as an "Arry" ?

Ah, New Zealand

That well known off shore tax haven - someone call the fuzz

Email from

I email the politician today ref the article in the sun regarding the taxman being harsh on Pimpey and got a quick response below,

Dear Mr

Many thanks for this. I do not say such things lightly, not least because my other half is a tax man, however I have to disagree with your assessment of HMRCs actions.

PFC has paid all tax it owed- near to £15 million since Oct 2010. They missed the deadline for December and 2 working days later final demand was issued- which was delivered late to the club, arriving after the deadline for payment had passed. Rather than waiting until 10th February HMRC announced a winding up order on New Years day. Leaving aside the additional problems this has caused the club ( plummeting player prices etc) one could put this down to tax officials just being very keen. Sadly internal HMRC e-mails tell another story.

Sometimes HMRC ends up cutting its nose off to spite its face. If the club is sold HMRC gets paid. If it isn’t it won’t. In addition to that simple fact- a point which I would make of any business where HMRCs actions could result in debts being paid and jobs secured- I would argue that FCs are a special case. They are not like a supermarket, which when it folds another takes its place: Portsmouth fans, on finding Pompey closed, will not be buying their season tickets at Southampton. Add to that the social value they provide.

We are not asking to be let off paying. Every effort to accommodate HMRCs concerns about a pause incurring additional debt is being made, including staff forging their salaries. All we want is a meeting to discuss the options. A reasonable request in my view, and one an HMRC mindful of recouping what it is owed ought to grant.

I hope that explains my position. While I appreciate you disagree, I thought it important I explain my assessment, especially as you had taken the trouble to write to me.

Regards,

Penny

including staff forging their salaries.

Unless a dubious Israeli is still there I assume she forgoing...

Email from

 

 

 

I email the politician today ref the article in the sun regarding the taxman being harsh on Pimpey and got a quick response below,

 

Dear Mr

 

Many thanks for this. I do not say such things lightly, not least because my other half is a tax man, however I have to disagree with your assessment of HMRCs actions.

PFC has paid all tax it owed- near to £15 million since Oct 2010. They missed the deadline for December and 2 working days later final demand was issued- which was delivered late to the club, arriving after the deadline for payment had passed. Rather than waiting until 10th February HMRC announced a winding up order on New Years day. Leaving aside the additional problems this has caused the club ( plummeting player prices etc) one could put this down to tax officials just being very keen. Sadly internal HMRC e-mails tell another story.

Sometimes HMRC ends up cutting its nose off to spite its face. If the club is sold HMRC gets paid. If it isn’t it won’t. In addition to that simple fact- a point which I would make of any business where HMRCs actions could result in debts being paid and jobs secured- I would argue that FCs are a special case. They are not like a supermarket, which when it folds another takes its place: Portsmouth fans, on finding Pompey closed, will not be buying their season tickets at Southampton. Add to that the social value they provide.

We are not asking to be let off paying. Every effort to accommodate HMRCs concerns about a pause incurring additional debt is being made, including staff forging their salaries. All we want is a meeting to discuss the options. A reasonable request in my view, and one an HMRC mindful of recouping what it is owed ought to grant.

I hope that explains my position. While I appreciate you disagree, I thought it important I explain my assessment, especially as you had taken the trouble to write to me.

 

Regards,

 

Penny

Surely it's a case of once bitten twice shy from the HMRC this time - does she seriously expect the debt to get up to £37M again before they take action? - and I seriously doubt the WUP was issued new years day, what with it being a Sunday and a Bank Holiday........

Email from

 

 

 

I email the politician today ref the article in the sun regarding the taxman being harsh on Pimpey and got a quick response below,

 

Dear Mr

 

Many thanks for this. I do not say such things lightly, not least because my other half is a tax man, however I have to disagree with your assessment of HMRCs actions.

PFC has paid all tax it owed- near to £15 million since Oct 2010. They missed the deadline for December and 2 working days later final demand was issued- which was delivered late to the club, arriving after the deadline for payment had passed. Rather than waiting until 10th February HMRC announced a winding up order on New Years day. Leaving aside the additional problems this has caused the club ( plummeting player prices etc) one could put this down to tax officials just being very keen. Sadly internal HMRC e-mails tell another story.

Sometimes HMRC ends up cutting its nose off to spite its face. If the club is sold HMRC gets paid. If it isn’t it won’t. In addition to that simple fact- a point which I would make of any business where HMRCs actions could result in debts being paid and jobs secured- I would argue that FCs are a special case. They are not like a supermarket, which when it folds another takes its place: Portsmouth fans, on finding Pompey closed, will not be buying their season tickets at Southampton. Add to that the social value they provide.

We are not asking to be let off paying. Every effort to accommodate HMRCs concerns about a pause incurring additional debt is being made, including staff forging their salaries. All we want is a meeting to discuss the options. A reasonable request in my view, and one an HMRC mindful of recouping what it is owed ought to grant.

I hope that explains my position. While I appreciate you disagree, I thought it important I explain my assessment, especially as you had taken the trouble to write to me.

 

Regards,

 

Penny

Freudian slip, or is something fishy going on....

So, they've paid £15m tax since Oct 2010...or less than half what they wracked up last time, of which the taxman still hasn't seen a penny and, when they do, they'll only see 20p in the £ (if they're lucky).

The club have chosen to use monies due to the taxman to hold back and pay the players for another month. Effectively they've used the British public to bank roll the players salaries. That was choice. They could have chosen not to pay the players, and then HMRC wouldn't be winding them up (lets face it, it'll be another £800k on the HMRC bill this month, if they manage to pay the players). Maybe she should ask herself why they paid the players and not HMRC? Maybe because players salaries are non negotiable as far as the FL go - all football debts must be paid if they want to continue in the league. HMRC debts, however, don't affect their status as a FL club. If Pompey go into admin, HMRC debts are likely to be busted down (again) to a fraction of what is owed.

There's a pretty good argument to say that the club is more attractive to buy having paid players, rather than HMRC. Of course, their other issues make it unlikely that any normal buyer would be interested anyway.

Maybe Penny needs a simple lesson from someone on here to shed some light on why Pompey are so right royally fecked.

Email from

 

 

 

I email the politician today ref the article in the sun regarding the taxman being harsh on Pimpey and got a quick response below,

 

Dear Mr

 

Many thanks for this. I do not say such things lightly, not least because my other half is a tax man, however I have to disagree with your assessment of HMRCs actions.

PFC has paid all tax it owed- near to £15 million since Oct 2010. They missed the deadline for December and 2 working days later final demand was issued- which was delivered late to the club, arriving after the deadline for payment had passed. Rather than waiting until 10th February HMRC announced a winding up order on New Years day. Leaving aside the additional problems this has caused the club ( plummeting player prices etc) one could put this down to tax officials just being very keen. Sadly internal HMRC e-mails tell another story.

Sometimes HMRC ends up cutting its nose off to spite its face. If the club is sold HMRC gets paid. If it isn’t it won’t. In addition to that simple fact- a point which I would make of any business where HMRCs actions could result in debts being paid and jobs secured- I would argue that FCs are a special case. They are not like a supermarket, which when it folds another takes its place: Portsmouth fans, on finding Pompey closed, will not be buying their season tickets at Southampton. Add to that the social value they provide.

We are not asking to be let off paying. Every effort to accommodate HMRCs concerns about a pause incurring additional debt is being made, including staff forging their salaries. All we want is a meeting to discuss the options. A reasonable request in my view, and one an HMRC mindful of recouping what it is owed ought to grant.

I hope that explains my position. While I appreciate you disagree, I thought it important I explain my assessment, especially as you had taken the trouble to write to me.

 

Regards,

 

Penny

Erm....and the previous £32m is airbrushed from history....?

Handy Andy and Colin Farmery were on Talksport earlier.

Nothing of note mentioned (as Danny Kelly was the interviewer..) he basically blew smoke up AA's arse about what he did last time - DK obviously hadn't done his homework, he compared their situation with ours, and AA let out the old excuse of holding companies gaining advantage by going into Admin....yeah Andy like we were given the choice that you used last time eh?!

No mention therefore of the £10.8M pumped into Pompey by CSI....

As for the MP, fair play to her for responding, but how did she get to see internal HMRC emails I wonder

Surely it's a case of once bitten twice shy from the HMRC this time - does she seriously expect the debt to get up to £37M again before they take action? - and I seriously doubt the WUP was issued new years day, what with it being a Sunday and a Bank Holiday........

Indeed. The London Gazette shows the issue date as 3rd January

 

As for the MP, fair play to her for responding, but how did she get to see internal HMRC emails I wonder

Indeed....I'm sure The Sun would be VERY interested in publishing a story about that. Seriously.

Indeed....I'm sure The Sun would be VERY interested in publishing a story about that. Seriously.

Might be worth asking her/HMRC how she got access to those e-mails and how that squares with HMRC's internal data protection information charter

Erm....and the previous £32m is airbrushed from history....?

it seems so. And why on earth do football clubs have this cherished status. they are there to make as much money as possible for the owners (or maybe that is to lose as little as possible) and don't give a huge amount back to the community. Sure players do, but that is players rather than the club. PFC provide a service for about 14k people on a weekly basis. Is it really worth HMRC breaking all the rules to make an exception for a company that services so few people? And if PFC can get away without paying any tax, shouldn't all football clubs be exempt, afterall one has to take into account "the social value they provide".

Still extremely stupid comments from this MP who thinks that a local company should be able to flout the tax laws. Tell me, how many people are employed by PFC? Maybe she should be concentrating her efforts on BAE and the 3000 that might soon be out of work, something that would be much more detrimental to the social value of the City of Poopey.

HMRC are not making a statement or singling out PFC for special treatment. Past payment of tax does not give you any kind of "loyalty" bonus, allowing you to default on or delay future payments.

This is plainly and simply about adhering to the rules... or more accurately, the laws of the land.

HMRC are simply saying: it does not matter who you are, or what you do. Pay your taxes when they're due, or we will come for you. Let one slide and they open the door for every other

It is abhorrent and rather insulting to the taxpayers (that's me and you) that a sitting MP, of a party in government, would come out on the side of a company that is not paying its taxes... and has known they would be unable to, since the moment CSI pulled the plug.

So on feb 20th Pompey will owe around 2.7 million in income tax and vat. What about late fines? Last time the debt almost doubled. Any experts out these who could point to the late fines rules and formula?

http://www.leagueoneminus10.blogspot.com

When did SaggyChops invest 250k in Oxford then?

Right, who facies writing to The Footbal League to inform them of a clear breach of rule 86 of their regulations with the evidence provided under oath in a recent tax evasion trial?

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20110629/section-9-association-dual-interests_2293633_2125750#84