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Pompey Takeover Saga


Fitzhugh Fella

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Getting TB to write off some of his fee's is impossible, getting chinny to write anything off is one step further than that!

 

Is that right though? I was under the impression the FL had said that Chainrai could not carry his secured position in its entirety over to newco. In which case, we've yet to hear whether he's even still in the running. Has he made any statement at all since the FL's announcement?

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So TBH 'may' be willing to do a deal if TB writes off some of the admin costs.

 

But no one's prepared to ask Balu to write anything off?

 

I'm genuinely confused.

 

Would be a waste of time.

 

They've all already accepted that he wants his money or it's curtains.

 

No point trying to apply pressure to someone behind a desk in Hong Kong who is the closest equivalent to a modern day Ebanezer Scrooge I've ever seen

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The opinion is, I believe, that as far as the club in concerned they would get nothing from the liquidation but that there as indications that they would get paid from the remaining unused parachute payments.

 

Yes - or rather, I hope that's the case.

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Is that right though? I was under the impression the FL had said that Chainrai could not carry his secured position in its entirety over to newco. In which case, we've yet to hear whether he's even still in the running. Has he made any statement at all since the FL's announcement?

 

Believe there was tweet from a hack quoted a page or so back claiming to have spoken to chinny and only mentioned the need to get rid of the magnificent 8.

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Yes - or rather, I hope that's the case.

 

Just can't see it I'm afraid.

 

The only people who could surely help pay the players would be the PFA.

 

The football creditors rule is surely only applicable to those teams in the league who want to keep their golden share.

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F*ck off!

 

That would infer some kind of romantic undertone to all of this when it's actually more like seeing the mangy disease-ridden fox that occasionally stopped to eat in your garden, being put down. Yeah, you might miss it occasionally, but you know it's for the best because ultimately it is mangy and disease-ridden.

 

And there ain't any songs about mangy disease-ridden Fox's.

 

Here you go.

 

Mr Pompey himself - Vince the c**t. Very appropriate lyrics as well.

 

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Think that the end game has been in place now ever since that FL decision scuppered CHinny.

 

Sure the Trust can try.....

 

But - and let's get real here, forget TB for a moment, he works for PKF who are a "Global" "Compliant" organisation.

 

He knows his legal obligation is to get as much as he can for the CREDITORS.

 

He knows that nottarf is worth the square root of fark all with the Trust in tenancy with a laughable excuse for a football club.

 

The ONLY value now is to sell the land for development.

 

The BARRIER in his way is - "The Council". He needs to get that caveat overturned.

 

HE knows there is no hope, the PLAYERS know there is no hope. It's pretty clear with Bob Beech popping up everywhere that HE knows there is no hope.

 

They're already dead, it's now about the planning permission and the immortal words..

 

Look we REALLY tried

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More on ticketing,or is this old news,apologies if already posted.....

 

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/LatestNews/news/Ticket-Booking-Policy-201213-3539.aspx

 

You mean this?

 

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Just can't see it I'm afraid.

 

The only people who could surely help pay the players would be the PFA.

 

The football creditors rule is surely only applicable to those teams in the league who want to keep their golden share.

 

From a few pages back..

 

The answer to the first part is this: http://www.uhy-uk.com/assets/media/download/portsmouth%20reports/Final%20progress%20report.pdf Page 4

 

 

Funds are continued to be held by the Premier League (‘PL’) for the 2010/11 season in respect of parachute monies, TV monies, sponsorship monies and the like, until all football creditors are paid in full.

 

 

(Poor grammar is UHY's, not mine)

 

 

In previous administrations, there hadn't been a comparable amount of money owed to players and a greater proportion of the outstanding football creditors were other clubs who were due stage payments in respect of transfer fees. However, there isn't a lot of transparency over how these payments were made and who the recipients were.

 

 

The problems come with the interaction between Football rules and insolvency law. If the club had an absolute entitlement to receive the money, then they would be seized by the administrators/liquidators. They are instead discretionary payments that are normally paid under particular circumstances.

 

 

The Football Creditors rule is only a 'club rule' of the Football League and only applies to clubs who wish to participate in the league, rather than an insolvency law. If the club wants to remain in the league, football creditors are front of the queue. If the club is liquidated and is not continuing, then the Football Creditors are treated the same as all other unsecured creditors. Under insolvency law, the players will probably receive nothing from the club - this is where the 'they get nothing' view comes from.

 

 

The fact that the PPs are discretionary payments puts the ball in the Premier League's court. They make the payments, they have previously withheld them to pay Football Creditors, but the rules are deliberately vague.

 

 

and

 

 

Also: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmcumeds/uc509-i/uc50901.htm

 

 

No, but we trade between us and the Football League as well. Therefore our clubs will have football creditor debts to other clubs in the pyramid. Remember we are in a slightly different position, Mr Collins. We have central funds that we can withhold for the purposes of administering the Football Creditors Rule. This is not a situation where a club has gone into administration. There is only a small amount of assets compared with the liabilities and, therefore, the idea that out of this small pot of assets, post-administration, you are being asked to pay off certain liabilities before general creditors get hold of the money.

 

 

In our situation, if clubs start to fall behind with their payments to other clubs, we are in the fortunate position that we have central funding where we can redirect that funding. For example, because of the Football Creditors Rule-the Football Creditors Rule, post-administration, we obviously applied the Football Indebtedness Rule before then, which is the pre-administration version of the Football Creditors Rule-we were able for example to keep Watford afloat. Had we not been able to pay the money that Watford was owed, Watford probably would have been in administration as well as a result of Portsmouth’s indebtedness. You will speak to the Football League next week who see more of this than we do. The argument for the Football Creditors Rule is effectively the domino effect of the indebtedness that gets passed on, which threatens more and more clubs. Therefore in order to get rid of it unilaterally I think it would be quite difficult.

This quote was in the context of the Conference not having a Football Creditors rule and transfer fees, but he only talks about payments to clubs, not clubs and players.

 

A definitive answer from the Premier League about what would happen with the remaining parachute payments in relation to the football creditors would clear the whole lot up but if they will pay the football creditors on liquidation they are not likely to say so pre liquidation in case the blame cannon gets turned on them more than it already is.

Edited by pedg
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Just can't see it I'm afraid.

 

The only people who could surely help pay the players would be the PFA.

 

The football creditors rule is surely only applicable to those teams in the league who want to keep their golden share.

They wouldn't be paid under the FCR, they would be paid under PL rules, which say that centrally-distributed funds will be withheld and paid directly to football creditors if there are arrears. Parachute payments are included in that.

 

The only dilemma is that the precise category of football creditors, in circumstances where a club is liquidated after being relegated but while still receiving PP's, is not defined.

 

What is clear is that the PL have to distribute the remaining PP's to the PL clubs after paying the FC's.

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Someone on Skate forum reckons deadline is 1st Aug but needs to be 7 days notice given....hence the rumour of an 'announcement' of some sort tomorrow????

( wonder if the 1st Aug is to do with FL needing to have enough time to rearrange fixture lists to include new team?).

 

They will just play with 23 teams, there won't be any last minute promotions or any of that debacle. They've done it before.

 

There was no threat of relegation in 1991–92 as the Football League was taking an additional member for 1992–93. They finished 18th of 22 clubs in the Fourth Division (the 23rd club, Aldershot, had been declared bankrupt and forced to resign from the league on 25 March 1992 after playing 36 games, results of which were declared void).

 

[Maidstone United] would be founder members of the new Division Three, but as the new season came closer it looked more and more unlikely that the Stones would be able to play in it as their financial worries showed no sign of easing.

They were due to play their first game of the season away to Scu nthorpe United on 15 August 1992 but by this stage only two players were still registered to the club. They were given until the following Monday to guarantee that they would be able to fulfill their fixtures; unable to come up with the necessary backing, they resigned from the league on 17 August and went into liqudation.

 

They had been due to contest the Football League Cup first round against Reading, with the first leg played on 19 August, and their demise meant that Reading received a bye to the second round. The final competitive game that the club played had been at Doncaster Rovers on 2 May 1992, the final day of the Fourth Division; the game ended in a 3–0 defeat for the Kent side.

 

The collapse of Aldershot and Maidstone meant that the Football League decided to revert to a membership of 92 clubs (70 when excluding the 22 members of the new Premier League) and that its plan for 94 members clubs had to be scrapped.

 

Also see http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-maidstone-resign-from-league-as-debts-rise-henry-winter-on-the-demise-of-another-football-club-left-without-money-or-ground-1541125.html

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I rarely post on this thread but have been an interested lurker, in fact I think my first post was something along the lines of 'I really don't care about Pompey' but now, due to you nutjobs, I actually do care about them; the sheer hypocrisy and way they've carried on means any football fan should care. Anyway, my take on this is that nothing momentous or significant really happened today except that a few deluded souls managed to write a badly worded letter and attracted the media circus for what is effectively a non-story. The players have already made sacrifices and the thanks they get is vilification - it's not exactly going to make them change their mind, and in any case they haven't even received compromise proposals. I think they know they're being used as scapegoats.

 

It's also quite funny to hear Pompey fans appealing to them on a moral basis after weeks and months of calling them mercenaries. The players they've signed are hardly likely to listen to arguments of conscience either so it's fairly futile - most of them put their careers secondary to a big pile of cash when surely better options were available. That's actually a good moral dilemma - how much money would you need to play for Pompey? If sensible recruitment had taken place, if local kids had been played then maybe those players would have listened. They didn't and the players they've got won't.

 

It's all a smokescreen though and just an endgame where the objective is to make sure the blame lies elsewhere when the music stops because not even the short term stopgap measures add up anymore. Secretly I think all the interested parties are finding liquidation to be the most attractive proposal on offer, and it is even for Pompey fans.

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Looks like their website is down................................

Under the sheer weight of 2010 CVA creditors all trying to respond to Trev's request to contact him to pledge their support for the great new offer at the same time

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http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11674/7928934/

 

Tal Ben Haim says he is prepared to help Portsmouth survive after administrator Trevor Birch said the player's wages were moving the club to the brink of extinction.

 

The 30-year-old former Manchester City and Chelsea defender has one year remaining on his contract, but his salary, and that of a number of other high-earners, could see Pompey go into liquidation before the start of the coming season.

 

Birch has imposed a salary cap, and an offer to buy the club by former owner Balu Chainrai is on condition that high earners like Ben Haim are off the wage bill.

 

The Israel international spoke to Sky Sports News after Birch told the Independent that the player and his agent Pini Zahavi were "not helping" the situation at Fratton Park.

 

Ben Haim said: "I've lost a lot of money, but it's not about the figures. It's over £2.5m net but I'm prepared to lose more, I'm prepared to help the club and lose more money.

 

Fees

 

"On the other hand, the administrator's fee is not less than what I earn. Nobody talks about that, so I prefer to lose more but he has to cut his fees as well.

 

"I can say when it went to administration we sat with the administrator, and in five to 10 minutes we had a deal.

 

"We agreed everything, Trevor spoke with us but then he disappeared for two months, so it's not our fault.

 

"He forgot that you have to negotiate with the players and not with the press. The press are not going to sign a compromise, they have to sit with us and tell us the figures exactly."

 

Greg Halford on Twitter this afternoon.

 

I think the majority of Pompey fans know I'm willing to do anything I can to help the club and keep it living but for people who are asking me to tear up my contract need to know I am willing to do that but it leaves the club in a worse situation. The best thing for me to do for the club is is try and get a fee from another club for my services and pay off outstanding debts instead of making more debts for the club. Its the hardest thing I ever gone through and it kills me to see the club like this, but thats how it stands at the moment. I love this club and I want to see it survive

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Greg Halford on Twitter this afternoon.

 

I think the majority of Pompey fans know I'm willing to do anything I can to help the club and keep it living but for people who are asking me to tear up my contract need to know I am willing to do that but it leaves the club in a worse situation. The best thing for me to do for the club is is try and get a fee from another club for my services and pay off outstanding debts instead of making more debts for the club. Its the hardest thing I ever gone through and it kills me to see the club like this, but thats how it stands at the moment. I love this club and I want to see it survive

 

How is him tearing up his contract going to make it worse for them? Goes on about the best thing would be for someone to buy him but that's not going to happen so in reality tearing up his contract would help but can't see it happening. I suspect he is not talking about tearing up his contract and walking away he is talking about leaving on a compromise agreement which would cost the club. He way love the club but obviously not enough to make him walk away without any money.

Edited by pedg
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How is him tearing up his contract going to make it worse for them? Goes on about the best thing would be for someone to buy him but that's not going to happen so in reality tearing up his contract would help but can't see it happening. I suspect he is not talking about tearing up his contract and walking away he is talking about leaving on a compromise agreement which would cost the club. He way love the club but obviously not enough to make him walk away without any money.

 

I presume they still owe a slug of transfer fees??

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How is him tearing up his contract going to make it worse for them? Goes on about the best thing would be for someone to buy him but that's not going to happen so in reality tearing up his contract would help but can't see it happening. I suspect he is not talking about tearing up his contract and walking away he is talking about leaving on a compromise agreement which would cost the club. He way love the club but obviously not enough to make him walk away without any money.

 

No no no.

 

Media Management Page 101.

 

"See I TRIED to help"

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So what have we learnt today?

 

400 fans turn up in Gibraltar to roar their heroes to a narrow defeat.

 

And when asked to drive 20 miles down the road to save their club...

 

 

10 of them turn up

 

No wonder Birch isn't wasting his mobile phone bills on calling the players

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I rarely post on this thread but have been an interested lurker, in fact I think my first post was something along the lines of 'I really don't care about Pompey' but now, due to you nutjobs, I actually do care about them; the sheer hypocrisy and way they've carried on means any football fan should care. Anyway, my take on this is that nothing momentous or significant really happened today except that a few .

 

You are not alone. If you take a few minutes to read the first few pages of this thread - the overwhelming sentiment is 'I hope they suffer points deductions/relegations but I don't want to see them die'.

 

Three years of failing to learn from their mistakes and blaming everyone but themselves, and for many supporters, not just PTS nutjobs, that sentiment has changed and it is time to put the rotten corpse out of its misery. Even now, we hear that they are offering promises of contracts that are way above the average for the division.

 

And the saddest part.....they still think we want them gone because we are jealous of their success and history. The Peoples Republic of Portsea should be sectioned under the Mental Health Act.

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Because I'm awesome, I've transcribed Ben Haim's interview from SSN at 3:20pm today, including a few "Ben Haimisms" like saying "true" for "truth" and "you know" every half sentence. He also laughs nervously a lot and says "he" instead of "we" and makes it sound like "will", but anyway :

 

Sky question : "It must be really tough ?"

TBH : "To be honest it's not easy... you know we still, er, everyone like the club, like the fans, but obviously the fans don't know the true. I don't want to talk about too much now, but I can say that, er, you know, when we first went into administration, then so, we sit with the first administrator, and in 5, 10 minute we got a deal, we agree everything.

 

Here it take a bit longer because Trevor speak with us and then he just disappeared for 2 months (shrugs) so... it's not our fault, he forgot that you have to do the negotiation with the player (laughs) and not with the press, you know? The press not going to sign a compromise - so will have to sit with us and... exactly the figures, no ?"

 

Sky question about Chainrai saying the survival is in the hands of the players :

TBH : "You know I think basically errr we didn't got to that situation because of the players, you know everyone... it's because the owners... so if it's... I don't know if it's Chainrai or I dunno, they are the owners before, the Russian that eh have problem with 250 million or I don;t know exactly the story, but it's not our problems, you know, we sign a contract with good faith, we come to play football, and er we find it very difficult. And we have a very hard time here to... to express ourself and to play football, to enjoy football.

 

But still we want to help the club to survive and, you know, we want to do our best, but they have to talk with us, and not with the press, that's the only problem now."

 

Sky : How much money have you lost ?

TBH : "Yeah I lost a lot of ,money, (nervous laugh) you know, it's not about figures, it's you know... over two, two and a half million pounds net, so...

 

But I prepared to lose more, I prepared to help the club and lose more money, but on the other hand, even the administrator, his fee is not less than what I earn, you know, nobody talk about that, so I prepared to lose more, but he have to cut his (nervous laugh)... his as well."

 

 

TBH : "In end I guess Harvey Dent speak the true, You die a hero, (nervous laugh) or live long enough to see yourself become villain. (strokes wad of cash under the table)"

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Next they will start doorstepping....

 

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2012-07-23/fans-plea-to-players/

 

Portsmouth football fans are to gather outside the club's ground this morning in the hope of garnering support from senior players.

 

The group SOS Pompey will ask them to back to it's campaign to allow fans to take over the failing club.

 

They will hand out the following letters:

 

"When you joined our football club certain promises were made to you, you signed a contract and on that basis and you have every right to demand what is justly yours.

 

With everything that has happened you, like us supporters, have every right to be angry, you are as much a victim of the incompetence that has left our club teetering on the brink of as anyone.

 

Now though you have the chance to write your name in the history of our club, the decisions that you make will decide whether one hundred and fourteen years of history come to an end.

 

Generations of Pompey fans are praying that are able to reach a compromise with the administrators and while legality and indeed morality are on your side we can only appeal to your conscience.

 

While those who have done this squabble over the final remains of Portsmouth Football Club, without a care for those who have been put out of work, or the businesses forced to make cut backs because of non-payment , you can show the world that you care. You can save this club that so many of us care about, you can demonstrate that footballers aren't the shallow, selfish people that is portrayed in the press.

 

We hope that with your help Pompey can survive and, under the ownership of the fans, can slowly but surely be turned around. We know that the potential sacrifice we are asking you to make is immense, but we will not survive without it.

 

Thank you

 

PLAY UP POMPEY"

 

A rather long letter. They ought to have kept it simple, which would be appropriate for the magnificent eight, and might actually get read.

 

Keeping the gist of what they rote above (see what I did there), it should read more like this:

 

"Dear Magnifcient Eight,

 

If you give up the mony that is legaly and moraley yours, you can save the club that has shafted you and countless other crediters. You will rite your name in the history of our club. And the mony you give up will go to a good cause, Mr. Chinny.

If you refuse, then ignore the last sentance. Then you are shallow, selfish people as portrayed in the press and wot we've been calling you up until today.

 

Thank you,

The Phew"

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More pressure put on the players by the few...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18958234

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the PFA has told the players to dig their heals in over this. It sets a dangerous precedent for their members if clubs' owners can blackmail them into handing over their money just so they can get their mits on it further down the line.

 

The PFA need to make an example of pompey to ensure future contracts are honoured at other clubs or else.

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