bridge too far Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 If HMRC is the body issuing the WUP, don't they get to choose the administrator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 b) More likely is that they go into admin just before the winding up hearing. (It will be interesting to see who is appointed administrator ... could it be AA again?!!!! ) Wouldn't HMRC appoint the administrator in this scenario, as the main creditor? Unless, of course, Pompey then play the "Ah, nice try HMRC, but Pompey owe CSI £10.8m so they are the main creditor" card....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 If HMRC is the body issuing the WUP, don't they get to choose the administrator? It depends... I think that if HMRC were to apply for the court to place the club in administration, they would have some sort of input, but if the club went into admin voluntarily, they would get to choose. HMRC could challenge any appointment, so I can't imagine there's much chance they'd allow AA to perform that role again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 James Pearce @Pearcesport First two witnesses have appeared. Explanation of tax law from HMRC and then we heard from Nigel Layton of Premier League's Quest inquiry Quest inquiry set up to investigate bungs in football. Nigel Layton told jury that Redknapp had voluntarily shown bank statements to Quest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 if the club went into admin voluntarily, they would get to choose. And given the criticsim of AA and Portpin in the Pompey statement last night, they (PFC2010) would be unlikely to choose AA....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holepuncture Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 So, reading between the lines of that PFC website statement, it seems pretty obvious that everyone (AA, CSI, Chainrai and PFC) was relying on siphoning funds from the sale of NOS / WRC Rights into PFC via the administration of CSI. If that's the care, are we looking at a huge miscalculation here by someone (Chainrai?) or just sheer bad luck? It would appear that the motorsport regulator (FSI) has played a blinder here... The legends that operate WRC really have played a blinder, the have jump started the end game and put it in first gear and got the wheels in motion. They have provided the fuel to HMRC so that they can do a hit and run on pompey. I would like to take this opportunity to toast WRC and all its partners. Call me a big softie but this just brought a lump to my throat....we have a pop at their fans for turning a blind eye to their conveyorbelt of dubious owners but the kids are none the wiser... @pn_neil_allen: RT @MrKimbell: @officialpompey I had my 8 yr old nephew on the phone in tears tonight. The people who have shafted #Pompey have no idea I think they do have an idea, however these are cold hard criminals and they will only care about the cold hard cash - they wont care about the kids! It is very sad for the younger fans and they are innocent victims in this saga, but they will be ok. They will still be able to go along to Moneyfields and support AFC Pompey, same colour kit, same stupid PUP song, same CWTB. Alternatively if they desire big league football they will have to turn red and white. When they are older they will understand they were conned by a criminal entity, and will feel a little absued no doubt - but appreciate that it was for the best for them to be shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 Exciting, isn't it? You used up one of your three daily posts only to say that? What's the matter, Steve? Running out of excuses for your poxy little club and its crooked owners? Or is the situation so convoluted because of your past administration, the number of recent owners and what they are owed, the rules of the FL regarding points deductions or the early payment of parachute payments, that you cannot comment on what the legality of the situation now is? Will you be toast, or do you think that the chancers who run your club, or the bent administrator of CSI, have some ace up their sleeves to gain you a stay of execution? Why aren't you your usual bullish self this morning? Didn't the Rosie Lee paint a bright picture of your future when you had your morning cuppa? That's a thought though Steve; Harry didn't name his dog after you by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 Does anyone know why the HMRC winding-up petition didn't show up on the London Gazette site yesterday? Is it a simple case that they issued the WUP yesterday but after the London Gazette publication deadline? http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/recent/10/corp-insolvency-winding-up-court/petitions-companies/start=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 James Pearce @Pearcesport Next witness we'll hear from is Rob Beasley, who when working for News of World recorded interviews with R + M about Monaco allegations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey-deacons-left-nut Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 Does anyone know why the HMRC winding-up petition didn't show up on the London Gazette site yesterday? Is it a simple case that they issued the WUP yesterday but after the London Gazette publication deadline? http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/recent/10/corp-insolvency-winding-up-court/petitions-companies/start=1 It takes 3 days for it to appear, HMRC notified the club on Saturday that they would be putting one in, on Monday mornign I should think, so it will appear today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbattigger Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 Am I the only one that thinks they'll get away with it again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 Wouldn't HMRC appoint the administrator in this scenario, as the main creditor? Unless, of course, Pompey then play the "Ah, nice try HMRC, but Pompey owe CSI £10.8m so they are the main creditor" card....? I think that is very likely. It is also very unlikely that HMRC will apply to put them into admin, so most likely is a voluntary admin by (nominally) PFC. The question then would be are PFC's directors and Lampitt really able to do anything independently ,or are all of them puppets of Chainrai? If they go for AA , that would be a pretty clear answer to the question. Or can/would CSI put the club into admin, as creditors? So in effect AA would then be selecting the administrator. I have a pretty shrewd idea who he'd choose! HMRC can object of course. Not sure how certain that objection would be to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 Am I the only one that thinks they'll get away with it again? No!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjsaint Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 Am I the only one that thinks they'll get away with it again? It's the law of averages. Eventually they will get what's coming to them, simply because they won't change their business practice until it's too late. I think they very well may get away with it for now, but if you keep stabbing yourself in the nuts, eventually your nuts will fall off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 It takes 3 days for it to appear, HMRC notified the club on Saturday that they would be putting one in, on Monday mornign I should think, so it will appear today. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 The PPs are not ring fenced and the CVA can be renegotiated on creditors approval. It's the burn rate which will kill them and it's perhaps the fundamental issue - manage the finances in a sustainable manner. Otherwise as you say they are storing up trouble and this type of financial event will happen again. I wonder what clubs like Nottingham Forest, Bristol City and the others fighting a relegation battle would think if the skates got a helping hand? Sorry, meant 'ringfenced' in inverted commas as this is the line provided by Corps in defence of the zero payment to date and how as a fine upstanding Pompey NewCo they will ensure everything is done right by their creditors... or not. The FA/FL rules are a shambles - they are designed to punish, but both orgs will do everything possible to allow clubs to worm their way out if possible - simply due to the fact that its tehir own rules that have led to the development of the debt mountain in the first place - their cowering to the pressures of the the Premier league and its 'brand' - thus allowing clubs to in effect dictate the lack of financial regulation and a fair playing field - Pompey have cheated its clear to all, possibly even those at the FL, but as others have said, because its their 'rules' that allowed them to get in this situation, (and has allowed so many others to do exactly the same - albeit currently servicing their debt) they are happier burying their heads and hoping it will go away, rather than tackling this embarrassing issue... the question have is how come their decision (the right one in the end) to punish us for out admin was done very quickly - I can only presume this is because our books were in top notch order and was thus easy to see how our problems arose. Pompey with their complex convoluted ownership and charge, debt, creditors from previous admin, must be a nightmare - ad sadly they look to be taking the easier route which is 'take one look and run away' - way too scary for them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 Would they give a **** about us? Did they give a **** about us? They are a horrible little club with horrible little fans who have been mugging off everybody for years,it's not the fans fault but they were quite happy to go along with the whole 'living above your means' thing when it was going good,not one of them questioned paying players like sol Campbell £100k a week when they were getting less than 20k home gates. They have sown what they are reaping now so **** em. They took the good times but can't handle the bad times,I hope they are destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 It depends... I think that if HMRC were to apply for the court to place the club in administration, they would have some sort of input, but if the club went into admin voluntarily, they would get to choose. HMRC could challenge any appointment, so I can't imagine there's much chance they'd allow AA to perform that role again. Maybe, but could the same administrator be appointed to both the parent company, and the subsidiarity company? surely AA's remit is to get the best deal for CSI! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 HMRC will NOT apply to put them into admin, they are applying for winding up, liquidation. Add to that AA has said "administration is the last thing they would consider" so it is sell or liquidate as far as CSI are concerned. It is up to Lampitt to come up with a strategy to avoid the threats of liquidation by getting cash in from somewhere to meet the outgoings and immediately due debts. Enter the FL with a sub until 'pay day'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 They will get away with it. They will go into admin - again, blow off yet more debt - again, then Chanrai will just find another bunch of crooks to be puppet owners and the taxpayer will be left out of pocket - again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 Would they give a **** about us? Did they give a **** about us? They are a horrible little club with horrible little fans who have been mugging off everybody for years,it's not the fans fault but they were quite happy to go along with the whole 'living above your means' thing when it was going good,not one of them questioned paying players like sol Campbell £100k a week when they were getting less than 20k home gates. They have sown what they are reaping now so **** em. They took the good times but can't handle the bad times,I hope they are destroyed. Quite. Take out the fact that they are our rivals, and if you look at the company as a company rather than a football club, then why anyone thinks that they should survive and not be closed down today, is a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 But they haven't. People were disappointed thinking they'd got away with something the last few years, but all they escaped was short term punishment. In reality it allowed them to screw themselves over yet further. It's not a situation they get away with, it's just one that gets delayed and usually worsened. The fate is coming, it's just as usual a question of when.they still had 3 more trips to Wembley, watched their side have an unfair advantage with better quality players. Im sure Rochdale Darlington fans etc would dearly love to have some of their punishment in return for the lifelong memories. Pompey got away with it. Hopefully that expression will cease to be very soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickn Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 They will get away with it. They will go into admin - again, blow off yet more debt - again, then Chanrai will just find another bunch of crooks to be puppet owners and the taxpayer will be left out of pocket - again. ....and then sign Tevez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 Quite. Take out the fact that they are our rivals, and if you look at the company as a company rather than a football club, then why anyone thinks that they should survive and not be closed down today, is a mystery. If it was any other type of business the locks would have been changed and the lights turned out a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 We need to get Brian Malwhinney back in charge of the FL ... he does not give e f**k about any club under his watch !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjsaint Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 We need to get Brian Malwhinney back in charge of the FL ... he does not give e f**k about any club under his watch !! Exactly. They would've been toast a long time ago, and he would have loved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Red Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 When you look at the circumstances of our administration we were so F***ing unlucky. 1) We were only a few grand over our recently reduced overdraft limit. Most of our debt was secured (and brought about by) the stadium 2) The parachute payments went up about 300% the next season after we were relegated from the PL 3) Malwhinney was in charge and he was out to proove a point (I wish he was still there now) If anyone has a reason to feel resentful of PFC it's us, even without the rivalry! On the positive side, because we were such a decently structured business, we got ML - Thank you at least for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 I'm not that far from the Football League offices, I might go down there and demand answers to why they are letting them get away with it, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 BBC Solent Sport @solentsport Portsmouth fans plan rescue bid: The Portsmouth Supporters Trust are pushing to have a financial stake in the st... bbc.in/xIoAid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Red Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 I'm not that far from the Football League offices, I might go down there and demand answers to why they are letting them get away with it, again. You go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 When you look at the circumstances of our administration we were so F***ing unlucky. 1) We were only a few grand over our recently reduced overdraft limit. Most of our debt was secured (and brought about by) the stadium 2) The parachute payments went up about 300% the next season after we were relegated from the PL 3) Malwhinney was in charge and he was out to proove a point (I wish he was still there now) If anyone has a reason to feel resentful of PFC it's us, even without the rivalry! On the positive side, because we were such a decently structured business, we got ML - Thank you at least for that! Or we were very lucky....depending on which way you look at it....where might we be now if Lowe had "got away with it" in 2009? Better off? Worse off? We'll never know, but I'm quite happy with where we've ended up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 Ahh Scott Mclachlan the skates verion of Nick Illingworth . These supporters trusts are so influential !!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 James Pearce @Pearcesport Lots more evidence to tell you about from the trial in the session before lunch..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 ? That's a thought though Steve; Harry didn't name his dog after you by any chance? He could have done but Steve is a fan of Staffordshire Bull Terriers whilst Harry prefers bulldogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 (edited) James Pearce @Pearcesport Jury has been played tape of phone conversation between Rob Beasley from News of World with Milan Mandaric In the recording Mandaric says over and over again that the Monaco payment nothing to do with football but was investment for a friend ® When Mandaric asked why no tax paid when money brought back to UK said Redknapp "could forget. He's not one of most efficient guys" Edited 25 January, 2012 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 Harry Redknapp 'sick and tired' of slurs http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9491905.Redknapp__sick_and_tired__of_slurs/?ref=twt&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 (edited) James Pearce @Pearcesport Mandaric revealed Redknapp was paid a million pounds for getting Portsmouth promoted to the Premier League Mandaric to reporter: "Why would I give Harry a hundred thousand pounds when he got a million pounds for being promoted?" During taped conversation reporter told Mandaric that he'd acted honourably. At that stage in dock Redknapp nudged Mandaric and smiled Mandaric told reporter that he'd spent millions of pounds on Portsmouth. "I'm annoyed people are saying I've done something wrong" Mandaric tells reporter that he knows Redknapp well. "People talk, people speak, but I've never found anything wrong with what Harry's done" Jury heard start of phone call between reporter and Redknapp. Redknapp said when heard allegations he thought "here we f***ing go again" Edited 25 January, 2012 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 I'm not that far from the Football League offices, I might go down there and demand answers to why they are letting them get away with it, again. Gets my vote, and I'll chip in for your trial...................GO HATCH!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony13579 Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 (edited) Trial is about to resume after lunch break. Jury will continue to hear tape conversation between Redknapp and News of World reporter I wonder how the NOTW reporter knew of this bung/transaction.... Phone tapping? no.. never...It would be funny if the evidence was gathered because of another illegal act Edited 25 January, 2012 by tony13579 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 It strikes me that Administration will have to be funded by someone. Portsmouth have to sell players by Monday midnight to bring in transfer fees or subsequently loan them out and get some fee. Nobody pays up front but by stages with transfer fees. A number of sellable assets will have poor values due to the attached wages. No player will want to jump at a loss of income as they become free agents in the event of liquidation. Why would teams want to buy them when they could come on the market for free. WHU and Cardiff could buy a few:lol:. CSI could hardly fund the administration unless there would be a return. Chanrai/Portpin could but would they want to throw more money at a bottomless pit. I just can't see the parachute payments being brought forward with enough of an advance to fund the Administration. It could be that it may get to court and if it does it really should be curtains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 Portsmouth have to sell players by Monday midnight 31st is next Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 from the bbc article goes on to say: "...a community bid means it is the community and the city and local businesses, and you would have various partners and some sort of council involvement and central funding from government." wtf!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 (edited) James Pearce @Pearcesport The conversation between Rob Beasley (NotW) and Redknapp took place the day before Redknapp was to manage Spurs on Carling Cup Final When R asked about his defence for Monaco allegations "I don't want no f***ing... I've got nothing to defend Rob. I aint done nothing wrong" Beasley "I wish I could leave a hundred grand lying around". Redknapp "Well I can Rob" Redknapp: "inland revenue fully aware.. If was something dodgy I'd have gone there, got the money + f***ing brought it back in f***ing briefcase" Redknapp "Do I need 30 f***ing grand avoid 30 grand income tax? Do I need that Rob? I mean 30 f***ing grand! I'll f***ing give you 30 grand" Redknapp "Do me a favour. I tried to nick thirty grand to save on income tax by having the money paid offshore? What a load of b*****ks" Redknapp tape has now finished and Redknapp's defence team starting to cross examine Rob Beasley, who is giving evidence Edited 25 January, 2012 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 (edited) Supporters Trust to find 1.8m for the HMRC (Excluding the monies owed to Chanrai, Gaydamak , CSI admin etc) - thats only £9 from each of the 200,000 on Southsea Common, or £128.57 from each of the 14,000 regulars. If they put their money where their mouth is, they could keep going for another couple of months and then do it all again, maybe by a direct debit scheme. Hold on , they haven't got a bank account. Edited 25 January, 2012 by Kingsland Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony13579 Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 (edited) They might sell TCWTB for medical research Edited 25 January, 2012 by tony13579 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 I'm sure that's exactly how some of them will try to convince themselves it's ok, but in reality there isn't a football fan alive who doesn't focus primarily on the present and future. That's what creates atmosphere, what gets fans to games and makes you proud of a club. Look at us, the bad years mean nothing once you're on the way back up, and it works both ways. They may have sold off anything their club meant for an fa cup, but it killed them, and it was just a group of mercenaries that won it, no-one that actually gave a toss about the club and not many that would put it amongst their career highlights I imagine. It should be stripped, as it would in many other countries as it's not fair on every other club that entered the fa cup those seasons, but anyone who follows football closely knows that. Let's just see how much comfort that memory is anyway because it's going to take them a decade or more to recover. I agree entirely with your sentiments. However, I have business clients who are Skates, ST holders. They are people who in all other matters give the outward appearance of being sensible intelligent individuals. And yet, when you ask them whether it was worth it, to spunk money they didn't have on buying players they couldn't afford, even though it could kill the club, they say yes. They believe it was all worthwhile for the memories they had of the several visits to Wembley for the play-offs, the FA Cup matches, etc. Naturally, they also like to gloat to us Saints fans that they have a more successful recent history than us, even though we counter it by saying that they bought the FA Cup with players they couldn't afford. But that's the difference between them and us. We played by the rules, took steps to cut our debts, played the kids in an attempt to make ends meet and frankly I have more respect and pride in what we have achieved. If we did as they did, we wouldn't be a club that I would feel comfortable about supporting, but they're a shameless lot and got the owners they deserved. We have the moral high ground. For those of their fans who feel that the success was justified even for the price that it will eventually cost them, let them rot in hell. Bring on oblivion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 wtf!!! They really are a bunch of deluded morons aren't they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easty Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 Redknapp "Do me a favour. I tried to nick thirty grand to save on income tax by having the money paid offshore. What a load of bo11ocks" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 I agree entirely with your sentiments. However, I have business clients who are Skates, ST holders. They are people who in all other matters give the outward appearance of being sensible intelligent individuals. And yet, when you ask them whether it was worth it, to spunk money they didn't have on buying players they couldn't afford, even though it could kill the club, they say yes. They believe it was all worthwhile for the memories they had of the several visits to Wembley for the play-offs, the FA Cup matches, etc. Naturally, they also like to gloat to us Saints fans that they have a more successful recent history than us, even though we counter it by saying that they bought the FA Cup with players they couldn't afford. But that's the difference between them and us. We played by the rules, took steps to cut our debts, played the kids in an attempt to make ends meet and frankly I have more respect and pride in what we have achieved. If we did as they did, we wouldn't be a club that I would feel comfortable about supporting, but they're a shameless lot and got the owners they deserved. We have the moral high ground. For those of their fans who feel that the success was justified even for the price that it will eventually cost them, let them rot in hell. Bring on oblivion.good luck to them for a bit of glory but in 20 years time who will remember pompey i would rather have our club and watch them every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 25 January, 2012 Share Posted 25 January, 2012 [/i][/color]Redknapp "Do I need 30 f***ing grand avoid 30 grand income tax? Do I need that Rob? I mean 30 f***ing grand! I'll f***ing give you 30 grand" I thought I hated this p rick before the trial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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