CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 I've just been watching Stoke v Arsenal on MOTD and Stoke scored yet again (indirectly) from a Delap long throw-in . I seem to remember we used this tactic frequently while he was with us and very little ever came from it :confused: . Interested to read your opinions as to why Rory's long throw-ins are now so devastatingly effective for Stoke City FC and were so ineffective for the Saints - what's changed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 I've just been watching Stoke v Arsenal on MOTD and Stoke scored yet again (indirectly) from a Delap long throw-in . I seem to remember we used this tactic frequently while he was with us and very little ever came from it :confused: . Interested to read your opinions as to why Rory's long throw-ins are now so devastatingly effective for Stoke City FC and were so ineffective for the Saints - what's changed ? For us his throws were slow gentle lobs into the area to nobody in particular. By the time they came down the defence had had time to organise itself. For Stoke they are low, flat and fast and are aimed at Fuller. Now Fuller ... why was he cr*p for us yet is happily scoring in the Premiership ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightspark Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Maybe its clever management from Pulis. Maybe he is the only one who has spotted what devastation it could cause. Pulis then has maybe given Delap a lot of throwing work and its all paying off. Though when we had Delap we didnt have a team similar to Stoke, aka big brutes. We had Fernandes, Anders Svensson, Kevin Phillips... while every single Stoke player are physical giant lumps. If Delap did it for us we only had Beattie and maybe Killer to aim at... and Tessem off the bench late on... really not many options IMO. Im not sour, but credit to Pulis and Delap for what they are doing now. Its shaking up the Premier League. (btw, didnt we score from a delap throw only once? for some reason sunderland 1-0 95th minute late december is flashing up in my brain???) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewell Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 It amuses me that a tactic vilified by Saints fans is now paying dividends in the premier league for Stoke City. Maybe we did not have the personnel to aim the missiles at but it is treated by Pullis and more importantly Stoke fans as a positive weapon. You only have to hear them get behind Rory when he lines one up Wooooaaaaa! I just guess that Saints fans new better eh? doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Codger Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Maybe its clever management from Pulis. Maybe he is the only one who has spotted what devastation it could cause. Pulis then has maybe given Delap a lot of throwing work and its all paying off. Though when we had Delap we didnt have a team similar to Stoke, aka big brutes. We had Fernandes, Anders Svensson, Kevin Phillips... while every single Stoke player are physical giant lumps. If Delap did it for us we only had Beattie and maybe Killer to aim at... and Tessem off the bench late on... really not many options IMO. Im not sour, but credit to Pulis and Delap for what they are doing now. Its shaking up the Premier League. (btw, didnt we score from a delap throw only once? for some reason sunderland 1-0 95th minute late december is flashing up in my brain???) Yes, Tessem got a very late winner from a RD long throw against Sunderland but I believe the final score mjight have been 2-1. It is also possible Crouch scored from one in the home match against Everton in our relegation year. Unfortunately I was away and missed the match so if someone who was there can confirm/deny ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Weren't both of the goals as a result of his long throws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 I was watching Iceland-Ireland women's football the other day. The Icelandics had one of those gymnasts who did a sort of hand spring before heaving the ball into the penalty box from about 40 yards, I thought they banned those sort of throw ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernowsaint Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Stoke had 10 players in the team yesterday over 6 ' in height. I guess long throws and free kicks are a big part of their tactics. I don't think that was ever the case with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 I remember the groans and complaints as he went to take throws. Of course the fans know best ehh. To be fair we didnt have the lumps to take advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 For us his throws were slow gentle lobs into the area to nobody in particular. By the time they came down the defence had had time to organise itself. For Stoke they are low, flat and fast and are aimed at Fuller. Now Fuller ... why was he cr*p for us yet is happily scoring in the Premiership ??? i seem to remember him being the only one scoring for us when saggy face was here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 The real difference is the way the ball is delivered, the trajectory and the speed. When he played for us, he just lobbed the ball in, and by the time it got to anyone it had no power, therefore relying on the attacker putting force behind the header to get any power. I didn't see yesterday's game but have seen some other Stoke games, now Delap throws with a fierce, low trajectory at about head height, so now the players can attack the ball and it flies past the keeper with a great deal more force. Shouldn't forget also that Stoke have lots of big players capable of heading with force. The other thing I have noticed about Delap, which does not directly affect his throws I suppose, is that he tends now to play on the left, whereas I remember him usually playing right-sided for us. I suppose it could be that he throws better when his left arm is nearer goal, but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Article about him in the Observer Sport today And he was being bigged up on MOTD last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkeith Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 At the Villa away game at the start of the relegation season, Delap took a long throw to Crouch, who flicked it on to Fernades. Fabrice volleyed it goalwards only for it to hit Phillips up the arse and get cleared. For the first time in ages, a Delap throw had almost worked. Minutes later, with the clock running down, we got another throw in the same postion, Delap steps up and ..... takes a short one. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack rill Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Having seen it fist hand Its not only the power or how Lowe he can throw, Its the accuracy, We have one of the tallest defenses but the amount of times he could pinpoint his own attackers is uncanny, With Rory in the side they will always have chances to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Can't believe someone can make a living in the Premier League on the basis of being able to throw a ball further than the norm. Because he is crap at everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW5 SAINT Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 It just makes you think, Saggy working miracles at spurs, Delap, Fuller and Higgy doing likewise at Stoke , Wallcott now regarded as a world beater at Arsenal, this was the nucleus of Saints in 05/06! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Practice. Just like we rarely score from corners - or penalties lately It seems we just don't bother to practice things like set pieces, whereas Stoke probably practice a lot and have a 'gameplan' for these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 i seem to remember him being the only one scoring for us when saggy face was here That is not true and some folk have short memories. Strachan made Delap's long throws a big part of our tactics. There was a famous incident when Strachan rushed to fetch the ball and passed it to Delap who stunned our opponents by speedily getting the ball into the box from where we scored. Do a search of the club archives for the Strachan period and you'll find several mentions of Delap's long throws and consequent goals. Saints played Delap too deep. He often complained that he didn't like playing right back. Strachan even used him once as left back during a game. Delap's a striker and the twin strike force of Delap and Fuller is causing defences lots of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintrich Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 F Now Fuller ... why was he cr*p for us yet is happily scoring in the Premiership ??? He wasn't crap for us. We signed him when he was recovering from a serious injury still. He put in a few dodgy performances and was given stick by fans, which clearly affected his confidence. Towards the end of the season (when he was by then much fitter) he ended with 6 goals in 6 games for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Yes, Tessem got a very late winner from a RD long throw against Sunderland but I believe the final score mjight have been 2-1. It is also possible Crouch scored from one in the home match against Everton in our relegation year. Unfortunately I was away and missed the match so if someone who was there can confirm/deny ... Also the 2nd goal against Man City at Eastlands. Down the right, Delap's long throw to Beattie; headed across goal to Phillips, and headed in at the far post. Bloody good goal too. Beat them 3-1 that day, with Sturrock managing. And a thorough peformance it was too. [ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 For us his throws were slow gentle lobs into the area to nobody in particular. By the time they came down the defence had had time to organise itself. For Stoke they are low, flat and fast and are aimed at Fuller. Now Fuller ... why was he cr*p for us yet is happily scoring in the Premiership ??? There is one very big difference to then and now, the ball. Delap has not been working out all of the time he left us, the ball is significantly different. As for Fuller, it virtually took him a season at Pompey, a season with Saints, then 1/2 a season at Stoke to get back to full fitness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Delap always threw it in low and fast for us too. Not sure why people are saying he lobbed it in slowly. Utter piffle. The reason it's more effective is because Stoke are better in the air than we were. Quite simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saints god Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 The only thing i remember Rory Delap for was his sweet bicycle kick against spurs when we won 1-0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 It amuses me that a tactic vilified by Saints fans is now paying dividends in the premier league for Stoke City. Maybe we did not have the personnel to aim the missiles at but it is treated by Pullis and more importantly Stoke fans as a positive weapon. You only have to hear them get behind Rory when he lines one up Wooooaaaaa! I just guess that Saints fans new better eh? doh! I think it's unfair to blame the fans in this instance. I for one always thought Delap could be a valuable asset, but the rest of our squad lacked the height of Stoke City and therefore his long throws were wasteful and a frustrating to fans. Blame the clubs management if anything for not seeing the potential and building around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 It amuses me that a tactic vilified by Saints fans is now paying dividends in the premier league for Stoke City. Maybe we did not have the personnel to aim the missiles at but it is treated by Pullis and more importantly Stoke fans as a positive weapon. You only have to hear them get behind Rory when he lines one up Wooooaaaaa! I just guess that Saints fans new better eh? doh! The speed and trajectory are completly different. Stoke have a set piece coach as well. Think about it, do you really think Saints fans would groan if it was effective. Still something else to blame the fans about. Delap had stopped being effective for us, I remember a game towards the end when the ball ran about a foot past him and he was too knackered to move his legs to get it, it lead to us letting in a goal. It seems as though Pulis is getting a lot more out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 I was watching Iceland-Ireland women's football the other day. The Icelandics had one of those gymnasts who did a sort of hand spring before heaving the ball into the penalty box from about 40 yards, I thought they banned those sort of throw ins. Its allowed in womens football as long as the thrower is wearing a skirt and no knickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Delap always threw it in low and fast for us too. Not sure why people are saying he lobbed it in slowly. Utter piffle. The reason it's more effective is because Stoke are better in the air than we were. Quite simple really. The only thing that is utter piffle is your memory. Delap's throws now are completely different to when he played for us, except maybe for an odd occassion. It is faster, lower and more accurate (and more often from the left though I don't think that makes much difference). I also don't think the ball makes that much difference, unless it is grippier when in his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Can't believe someone can make a living in the Premier League on the basis of being able to throw a ball further than the norm. Because he is crap at everything else. Even more strange when you consider that litterally anyone can be coached to take throw in's that far, it's very easy to do !!!! Sadly though many so called 'football people' / coaches just cant figure it out - but then on the whole they are not the brightest candles in the box !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 He wasn't crap for us. We signed him when he was recovering from a serious injury still. He put in a few dodgy performances and was given stick by fans, which clearly affected his confidence. Towards the end of the season (when he was by then much fitter) he ended with 6 goals in 6 games for us. Did you go and watch the pre season friendly against Stoke at our place? Rory Delap was really very poor indeed........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Stimp Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Crouch scored for us directly from one once as well, similar to the Fuller one. Can't remember who it was against though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Crouch scored for us directly from one once as well, similar to the Fuller one. Can't remember who it was against though. Everton at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southamptonfclegend Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Practice. Just like we rarely score from corners - or penalties lately It seems we just don't bother to practice things like set pieces, whereas Stoke probably practice a lot and have a 'gameplan' for these things. we scored from a corner yesterday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Also the 2nd goal against Man City at Eastlands. Down the right, Delap's long throw to Beattie; headed across goal to Phillips, and headed in at the far post. Bloody good goal too. Beat them 3-1 that day, with Sturrock managing. And a thorough peformance it was too. [ Brilliant day out, thumping header by Beatts and the third breakaway goal by Phillips was superb. We had lots of fans up for that game as City did us on our allocation the previous season for the last game at Maine Rd. Great night out in Manchester after too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Crouch scored for us directly from one once as well, similar to the Fuller one. Can't remember who it was against though. Liverpool home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 It amuses me that a tactic vilified by Saints fans is now paying dividends in the premier league for Stoke City. Maybe we did not have the personnel to aim the missiles at but it is treated by Pullis and more importantly Stoke fans as a positive weapon. You only have to hear them get behind Rory when he lines one up Wooooaaaaa! I just guess that Saints fans new better eh? doh! It is amazing how many players dissed as crap on Saints message boards are continuing to perform well in the premiership. Perhaps, just perhaps, they were not crap after all which is why managers kept picking them. So pardon me while I continue to ignore some of the opinions on McGoldrick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Site Agent Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 Having seen it fist hand Its not only the power or how Lowe he can throw, Its the accuracy, We have one of the tallest defenses but the amount of times he could pinpoint his own attackers is uncanny, With Rory in the side they will always have chances to score. Fraudian Slip!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaptopSaint Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 It is amazing how many players dissed as crap on Saints message boards are continuing to perform well in the premiership. Perhaps, just perhaps, they were not crap after all which is why managers kept picking them. So pardon me while I continue to ignore some of the opinions on McGoldrick. Fair point my friend. Rory still runs like a duck with a poker up his arse though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 I took issue with him doing it here because it was always the same... The main thing is to mix the play up...he never took a quick one when there were players out of position...thus enabling the opposition players a chance to sort themselves out... Can't speak for anyone else but that is where my frustration with the long throw came from...that and the fact that they usually came to nothing of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 I remember the groans and complaints as he went to take throws. Of course the fans know best ehh. To be fair we didnt have the lumps to take advantage It would appear they did in the case of SFC as we scored a grand total of 2 goals (it appears) due to his throw-ins. How many games did he play for SFC and how many throw-ins? Not a great returns ratio I'd say. Stoke had 8 players (I think that's what they said) on the pitch over 6' on Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 The only thing that is utter piffle is your memory. Delap's throws now are completely different to when he played for us, except maybe for an odd occassion. It is faster, lower and more accurate (and more often from the left though I don't think that makes much difference). I also don't think the ball makes that much difference, unless it is grippier when in his hands. When they introduced the new ball there was overall condemnation from goal keepers because it moved around a lot in the air. They had a variety of top goalies critising the ball with the only plus point being from one goalie, that thought it was far better to distribute by hand. I don't know if the ball is lighter or the aerodynamics are causing these effects, but the overwhelming view from the goalies was a significant difference. The only thing I have noticed is that it was far more difficult to get the ball to dip with power from the closer free kicks, than the one it replaced. Renaldo seems to have overcome that with a technique where he appears to push the ball into the surface / or even kick the ball downwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Le Shearer Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 It amuses me that a tactic vilified by Saints fans is now paying dividends in the premier league for Stoke City. Maybe we did not have the personnel to aim the missiles at but it is treated by Pullis and more importantly Stoke fans as a positive weapon. You only have to hear them get behind Rory when he lines one up Wooooaaaaa! I just guess that Saints fans new better eh? doh! I think you missed the point ! having Rory Delap as your star player,and relying totally on long-throws-basing your whole tactic throughout the game on achieving them..that is an attrocity and an insult to thinking football fans. that aint football the way many of us love the game,and I dont care if it keeps them up. its just a cruel combination of handball,rugby and football,in an organized shape which I personally hope gets Stoke relegated to div 2,and Delap getting tendinitis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 I think you missed the point ! having Rory Delap as your star player,and relying totally on long-throws-basing your whole tactic throughout the game on achieving them..that is an attrocity and an insult to thinking football fans. that aint football the way many of us love the game,and I dont care if it keeps them up. its just a cruel combination of handball,rugby and football,in an organized shape which I personally hope gets Stoke relegated to div 2,and Delap getting tendinitis. Nearly half of their goals have come as a result of Delap's throws and he is up there in the "most assists" list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Le Shearer Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 Nearly half of their goals have come as a result of Delap's throws and he is up there in the "most assists" list. yes,that is my point..? having the poorest footballer in England as your star-player,says it all really ! he does absolutely nothing of note other than his throw-ins. yet Stoke plays him on the left wing (!!) just so he doesnt have to run so far to throw the ball. combined with the fact that that is the position he does the least amount of damage in open play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 For us his throws were slow gentle lobs into the area to nobody in particular. By the time they came down the defence had had time to organise itself. For Stoke they are low, flat and fast and are aimed at Fuller. Now Fuller ... why was he cr*p for us yet is happily scoring in the Premiership ??? Fuller was underated by us. I always liked him and felt the fans we stupid to slate him. He is one of those players that can make something out of nothing and isn't reliant on chances being put on a plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 Fuller was underated by us. I always liked him and felt the fans we stupid to slate him. He is one of those players that can make something out of nothing and isn't reliant on chances being put on a plate. True, remember watching Fuller and Jones up front one game. Some of the idiots around me: when Jones ****ed up - "for ****s sake Fuller", and when Fuller did something good - "nice one kenwyne". Idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 When they introduced the new ball there was overall condemnation from goal keepers because it moved around a lot in the air. They had a variety of top goalies critising the ball with the only plus point being from one goalie, that thought it was far better to distribute by hand. I don't know if the ball is lighter or the aerodynamics are causing these effects, but the overwhelming view from the goalies was a significant difference. The only thing I have noticed is that it was far more difficult to get the ball to dip with power from the closer free kicks, than the one it replaced. Renaldo seems to have overcome that with a technique where he appears to push the ball into the surface / or even kick the ball downwards. I don't disagree with the view that the ball behaves differently this season, or since Delap was with Saints, but I don't think this is a factor with his throws, which are aimed straight as a die (sp?) into the 6 yard box. I see even the Beeb has picked up on this, and the tactical genius that is Lee Dixon explains how it is used and how to defend against it. Actually I do think he makes a good point, and one that we did not use - that is because you cannot be offside from a throw Stoke load the goal area for his throws. By the way for those who think this is Stoke's only tactic, dream on. If you watch their games they actually play some decent stuff these days, maybe not prettypretty like Arsenal, but then who won out of the two at the weekend? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/7705772.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 4 November, 2008 Share Posted 4 November, 2008 It would appear they did in the case of SFC as we scored a grand total of 2 goals (it appears) due to his throw-ins. How many games did he play for SFC and how many throw-ins? Not a great returns ratio I'd say. Stoke had 8 players (I think that's what they said) on the pitch over 6' on Saturday.that's true but is was a weapon that was not used to its fullest as the fans got on the players back as soon as he made a run up to take it. Also notice the last line of the original post, I thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 4 November, 2008 Share Posted 4 November, 2008 I don't disagree with the view that the ball behaves differently this season, or since Delap was with Saints, but I don't think this is a factor with his throws, which are aimed straight as a die (sp?) into the 6 yard box. I see even the Beeb has picked up on this, and the tactical genius that is Lee Dixon explains how it is used and how to defend against it. Actually I do think he makes a good point, and one that we did not use - that is because you cannot be offside from a throw Stoke load the goal area for his throws. By the way for those who think this is Stoke's only tactic, dream on. If you watch their games they actually play some decent stuff these days, maybe not prettypretty like Arsenal, but then who won out of the two at the weekend? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/7705772.stm There is a big difference now, Delap could never throw the ball the distance he currently does with that flat trajectory. He could throw it flat previously, but I never saw it get to the 6 yard line from those distances without it being loopy and using the wind. Something has changed, either the ball or Delap. If you factor in the amount of improvement required by Delap, I just do not feel it is practical and must come from the ball. The ball that causes all the problems is the one angled in at about 30° from the touch line, something he could not do over those distances with the same trajectory we now see. Repeat that same throw from alongside the penalty box and it has no where near the same impact, something he could do with us. I don't see much change in Delaps overall fitness, making it even less likely the improvement is down to the player. Just for reference on another posters point, in our first season down with Delap in the side, we had the tallest team in the CCC, never helped us then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notjon Posted 4 November, 2008 Share Posted 4 November, 2008 Did we ever actually score directly from a Delap throw? http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/how-do-you-stop-the-human-sling-989673.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 5 November, 2008 Share Posted 5 November, 2008 Fraudian Slip!!!!!! Freudian slip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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