angelman Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Can someone tell me what the club's ambitions have been lowered from and what they now are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Abroad Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 I'm sick to death of people saying the players are leaving for money. Why did he stay so long? I guess to you it's coincidence that he's leaving now that the club's ambitions have been lowered. Still, blame the players being money grabbing and ignore the quotes from the likes of lovren talking about the club's lack of ambition if it makes you feel better. So when Lallana said his dream move was Liverpool and he wanted to be there during this past season, he instinctively knew the Saints were lowering their ambitions? Kat, Ralph and Les probably told Poch in the late fall "take your foot off the accelerator, let's quit this winning stuff"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Can someone tell me what the club's ambitions have been lowered from and what they now are? Aiming for CL football to not really aiming for it. Realism. Which doesn't thrill CL quality players unsuprisingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Aiming for CL football? Really? Maybe now we have some realsistic ambitions like winning a domestic cup (something Cortese wasnt interested in but the fans are) and qualifying for Europe. Pochettino was never interested in that so it is ironic that is what he will be doing next season. Realism, so where does that that sit? Realistic players will know a club like SFC are not going to break into the top 4 without changing their wage structure massively (and the transfer budget of course). Another dig at the people running the club. If they werent ambitious for the club we would have Steve Bruce instead of Ronald Koeman. As I keep saying to you, why dont you give them a chance and wait and see what happens and stop all this negative snipping? You hae absolutely NO idea what is going to happen. If it all goes pear shaped then you can give yourself a big slap on the back and tell us all you told us so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Kat, Ralph and Les probably told Poch in the late fall "take your foot off the accelerator, let's quit this winning stuff"? Well quite, the lowering of ambition if anything was lowering the ambition of spending more than we can afford, to spending what we can afford. I ain't got a problem with that tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 (edited) Can someone tell me what the club's ambitions have been lowered from and what they now are? Well I'm pretty sure Mopo said that Europa league held no interest for him but now he is gone the club said they were aiming for Europe so it looks like our ambitions have actually gone up......to getting into the Europa league Edited 10 July, 2014 by doddisalegend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Does anyone honestly believe players were sticking around because they thought they were going to get Champions League football with Saints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 I'm sick to death of people saying the players are leaving for money. Why did he stay so long? I guess to you it's coincidence that he's leaving now that the club's ambitions have been lowered. Still, blame the players being money grabbing and ignore the quotes from the likes of lovren talking about the club's lack of ambition if it makes you feel better. The reality is probably somewhere in-between... the players were happy working under a Cortese/MP regime where the objective was clearly CL football. WE don't know why Cortese left but assuming it was related to funding required to achieve that dream; then the players will perceive a lack of ambition (hence Lovren/Schneiderlin comments) when he left. The money is a given when CL teams come in so its a win/win for the players. Unfortunately, this was inevitable once Kruger stressed the self-sustaining model going forwards.. for sure, Liverpool did not follow that between 2009-13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Does anyone honestly believe players were sticking around because they thought they were going to get Champions League football with Saints? How well does Lovren speak English? Maybe something got lost in translation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 The reality is probably somewhere in-between... the players were happy working under a Cortese/MP regime where the objective was clearly CL football. WE don't know why Cortese left but assuming it was related to funding required to achieve that dream; then the players will perceive a lack of ambition (hence Lovren/Schneiderlin comments) when he left. The money is a given when CL teams come in so its a win/win for the players. Unfortunately, this was inevitable once Kruger stressed the self-sustaining model going forwards.. for sure, Liverpool did not follow that between 2009-13. If the traget was CL football what was the timeframe? That wasnt part of the much heralded 5 year plan. And I thought Cortese had signed up to the self sustaining model? Or was that just up to the point where he realised the CL football was going to cost a great deal more money than SFC could realistically afford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 It takes quite an exceptional player to be irreplaceable and its hard to see that a player who isn't first choice for his country is exceptional. What matters is that the fee is high enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Does anyone honestly believe players were sticking around because they thought they were going to get Champions League football with Saints? It would appear that very many of our hugely gullible fans did believe it. Idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 I'm sick to death of people saying the players are leaving for money. Why did he stay so long? I guess to you it's coincidence that he's leaving now that the club's ambitions have been lowered. Still, blame the players being money grabbing and ignore the quotes from the likes of lovren talking about the club's lack of ambition if it makes you feel better. I think the person lying to himself to make them feel better is you son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alehouseboys Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 So when Lallana said his dream move was Liverpool and he wanted to be there during this past season, he instinctively knew the Saints were lowering their ambitions? Kat, Ralph and Les probably told Poch in the late fall "take your foot off the accelerator, let's quit this winning stuff"? I know it's not fashionable to defend Lallana right now but you may be closer to the truth than you realised? Before the FA Cup game up at Sunderland he was giving it the right big one to the TV nation about us really going for it, he seemed genuine, he knew we had a great opportunity. We all know what happened next and he was left looking a bit of a wopper. Was the seed sown that day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Does anyone honestly believe players were sticking around because they thought they were going to get Champions League football with Saints? If your told things often enough then you can start to believe, after all Adolf Hitler convinced a whole nation that they were the master race and would rule the world. Got to be a lot easier with a few football players (especially some of the thicker ones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 If your told things often enough then you can start to believe, after all Adolf Hitler convinced a whole nation that they were the master race and would rule the world. Got to be a lot easier with a few football players (especially some of the thicker ones). Godwin's Law! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 I know it's not fashionable to defend Lallana right now but you may be closer to the truth than you realised? Before the FA Cup game up at Sunderland he was giving it the right big one to the TV nation about us really going for it, he seemed genuine, he knew we had a great opportunity. We all know what happened next and he was left looking a bit of a wopper. Was the seed sown that day? No. Liverpool wanted to buy him and he wanted to go. That's what "happened next". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madruss Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Godwin's Law! Yep, the argument and therefore the whole thread has now terminated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 I know it's not fashionable to defend Lallana right now but you may be closer to the truth than you realised? Before the FA Cup game up at Sunderland he was giving it the right big one to the TV nation about us really going for it, he seemed genuine, he knew we had a great opportunity. We all know what happened next and he was left looking a bit of a wopper. Was the seed sown that day? Or, Lallana was suddenly in a position where he was being offered to double/treble his wages and decided to go on strike to get his fat new contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 If Morgan is off what can we expect to actually receive for him,he is easily worth £25m plus in my opinion but what are notorious cheapskates like Arsenal and Spurs going to offer,I have a feeling we will let him go for peanuts £10-£15m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 If Morgan is off what can we expect to actually receive for him,he is easily worth £25m plus in my opinion but what are notorious cheapskates like Arsenal and Spurs going to offer,I have a feeling we will let him go for peanuts £10-£15m £15m seems to be the going price for him, for some reason unbeknown to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 If Morgan is off what can we expect to actually receive for him,he is easily worth £25m plus in my opinion but what are notorious cheapskates like Arsenal and Spurs going to offer,I have a feeling we will let him go for peanuts £10-£15m Arsenal reportedly were willing to offer 30mill for him + Dejan so they value him at about 10 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 If he does go for 10-15m that would be a serious kick in the teeth for the fans,worth double that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 So when Lallana said his dream move was Liverpool and he wanted to be there during this past season, he instinctively knew the Saints were lowering their ambitions? Kat, Ralph and Les probably told Poch in the late fall "take your foot off the accelerator, let's quit this winning stuff"? Total rubbish! Adam's father posed a hypothetical question to Weston Saint before the MU game. 'If you were offered double the money and CL football what would you do?' That summed it up nicely. The money was obviously the decider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Who is Adams father ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Who is Adams father ? David Lallana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Arsenal reportedly were willing to offer 30mill for him + Dejan so they value him at about 10 million. It'll be another 'not a penny less than £25m!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 David Lallana. Nice one. Did he post on here or was it a face to face convo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Nice one. Did he post on here or was it a face to face convo Face to face, we usually talk to him at home games or rather used to as he'll be following Adam at Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Carlton Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Who is Adams father ? Steven Gerrard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 How well does Lovren speak English? Maybe something got lost in translation? They told him "We've got a 50% chance of Championship football next season" and then he signed. Easy mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rees Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Isn't the Koeman presser tomorrow? hopefully find out about the Morgan situation and a lot more from that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickylambert Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Sorry am I being really stupid, but has a bid actually been put out/accepted if not that why are people so worried? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Who is Adams father ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 No-one on here has a clue how much might or might not have been bid for Schneiderlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingdomCome Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Who is Adams father ? Adam is the first human so technically he doesn't have a father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 No-one on here has a clue how much might or might not have been bid for Schneiderlin. Please can I be the first to fabricate the fee were are demanding? - I'm going to say we have been told that we want not a penny less than forty million. I can then get absolutely furious about the club not achieving said made up fee, and I can get all arsey pretending the club said they were definitely going to hold out for that fee so are a bunch of gutless liars. I think that's how it works, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 But in Morgan's case I wouldn't be surprised to see us try to replace him with Reed. Not sure how that might work out. If they do then it is because they think he can do it. A lot of people were getting upset last year when we lost out on Buttner and made no attempt to get anyone else. Shaw didn't turn out too bad! Perhaps we should trust the judgement of the staff - they know more about the players than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 Can't blame him if he wants to go to Spurs with the lure of Champions League football. NOTHING the club can do to stop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 But in Morgan's case I wouldn't be surprised to see us try to replace him with Reed. Not sure how that might work out. Badly. The idea that Shaw and Morgan can be replaced by target and reed next season is the quickest route to the championship. We are talking about two of the bets performing players in the league last season. We need to be bringing in some top notch replacements otherwise we will struggle IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 If they do then it is because they think he can do it. A lot of people were getting upset last year when we lost out on Buttner and made no attempt to get anyone else. Shaw didn't turn out too bad! Perhaps we should trust the judgement of the staff - they know more about the players than we do. Only idiots were concerned about the left back slot last summer as it was blindingly obvious that we had a gem in Shaw who played a comsiderable number of games the season before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 10 July, 2014 Share Posted 10 July, 2014 If they do then it is because they think he can do it. A lot of people were getting upset last year when we lost out on Buttner and made no attempt to get anyone else. Shaw didn't turn out too bad! Perhaps we should trust the judgement of the staff - they know more about the players than we do. Yet Shaw is a rare, exceptional talent with the physical development to match his skill, which means we not only got away without an experienced LB but had a special player right from the off. Hard to see that happening with Targett, Gallagher, Reed and even JWP. Too much reliance on the kids could be a strategy to regret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorne Malvo Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Yep, you win nothing with kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Youth is a major part of the club ethic now I think people need to get used to youth players stepping up to the 1st team. I'm pretty sure one of RKs major plus points for the club was his bring through of youth players at Feyenoord. If people are going to expect like for like replacements for every player that leaves they are going to disappointed IMO If the club thinks there is a viable replacement in the academy they will promote them to the 1st team over buying a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 If they do then it is because they think he can do it. A lot of people were getting upset last year when we lost out on Buttner and made no attempt to get anyone else. Shaw didn't turn out too bad! Perhaps we should trust the judgement of the staff - they know more about the players than we do. Buttner was the summer before, our promotion season and at that time Shaw hadn't made a first team appearance, so quite rightly some people, me included were concerned that we were starting our first season back with a left back who wasn't good enough and another who was 17 and never played a first team game. I'm sure our knowitallers with the benefit of hindsight will sneer and how ridiculous this was and that Shaw was guaranteed to be brilliant, that anyone that says otherwise is a clown who doesn't know what they're on about and no doubt insert a few laughing emotioncons to emphasise the point. The fact is though that you just don't know how a kid will fit in to the first team, like Shaw they might slot in straight away, but there are countless other examples where that doesn't happen and they need a bit more time. It seems the club weren't overly confident either otherwise we wouldn't have been trying to sign Buttner is the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Yet Shaw is a rare, exceptional talent with the physical development to match his skill, which means we not only got away without an experienced LB but had a special player right from the off. Hard to see that happening with Targett, Gallagher, Reed and even JWP. Too much reliance on the kids could be a strategy to regret. Absolutely this. CM is the position where we might get away with it but LB, CB, wide areas and strikers and GK all need strengthening this window to ensure we are competitive and not bottom at Xmas. I've been one of this site's most positive posters but sorry, that's the reality. We will need to replace all the positions lost bar perhaps Morgan and we may need more replacements is certain positions where we were already thin e.g. CB. Anything else is aiming for relegation. Shaw was a bit of a one-off, JWP is being eased into the team over 2-3 seasons and we'll probably need to do the same with Targett, McQueen. Don't know about Reed but his physical development is well behind Shaw's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Absolutely this. CM is the position where we might get away with it but LB, CB, wide areas and strikers and GK all need strengthening this window to ensure we are competitive and not bottom at Xmas. I've been one of this site's most positive posters but sorry, that's the reality. We will need to replace all the positions lost bar perhaps Morgan and we may need more replacements is certain positions where we were already thin e.g. CB. Anything else is aiming for relegation. Shaw was a bit of a one-off, JWP is being eased into the team over 2-3 seasons and we'll probably need to do the same with Targett, McQueen. Don't know about Reed but his physical development is well behind Shaw's. Not sure how much more he is going to grow tbh. He is most likely to sit in the pocket rocket category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Not sure how much more he is going to grow tbh. He is most likely to sit in the pocket rocket category. Which is fine if we have Wanyama in there to balance it out. The best players always rise to the top, regardless of size etc so if Reed is as good as people say, it won't hold him back. Some of S-Clarke's comments about the club not being concerned about LB is a real concern though, expecting Targett to be Shaw MKII is a hell of an ask and even then, it doesn't leave us any cover at all if he's injured, Clyne at LB is OK for the odd game but not a 2 or 3 match stretch. I'm not going to join the bedwetters but share Sour Mash's moderate worries on the other thread about the pace of recruitment - we need to be seeing a couple of arrivals a week for the next 2-3 weeks if we are going to have a shot at doing anything other than finishing fourth from bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Absolutely this. CM is the position where we might get away with it but LB, CB, wide areas and strikers and GK all need strengthening this window to ensure we are competitive and not bottom at Xmas. I've been one of this site's most positive posters but sorry, that's the reality. We will need to replace all the positions lost bar perhaps Morgan and we may need more replacements is certain positions where we were already thin e.g. CB. Anything else is aiming for relegation. Shaw was a bit of a one-off, JWP is being eased into the team over 2-3 seasons and we'll probably need to do the same with Targett, McQueen. Don't know about Reed but his physical development is well behind Shaw's. Perhaps it would be instructive for you to look back to the beginning of our first season back in the Premiership, when we played Manchester City, to gain some perspective.This was our team:- K Davis, J Hooiveld, D Fox, J Fonte, N Clyne, J Ward-Prowse (S Davis, 65), J Puncheon (B Sharp, 86), A Lallana, M Schneiderlin, G Do Prado, J Rodriguez (R Lambert, 55) Subs not used: P Gazzaniga, D Seaborne, L Shaw, F Richardson And have Man City strengthened since then? Have a look at their team that day and I would say not. Ward-Prowse had just been introduced into the first team and didn't look out of place then. When you consider that we player Kelvin, Hooiveld, Fox and Guly and look at our substitutions and subs bench, it is quite an eye-opener compared to what we have now, even without Lallana, Lambert and Shaw (who was only a sub then and pretty well an unknown quantity). Factor in also the subsequent two changes of manager since Adkins. I am sure that we will strengthen in all those areas you suggest and have made a damned good start at it with Tadic for Lallana. But talk about relegation/bottom at Christmas if we don't strengthen in all of those areas is just nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Perhaps it would be instructive for you to look back to the beginning of our first season back in the Premiership, when we played Manchester City, to gain some perspective.This was our team:- K Davis, J Hooiveld, D Fox, J Fonte, N Clyne, J Ward-Prowse (S Davis, 65), J Puncheon (B Sharp, 86), A Lallana, M Schneiderlin, G Do Prado, J Rodriguez (R Lambert, 55) Subs not used: P Gazzaniga, D Seaborne, L Shaw, F Richardson And have Man City strengthened since then? Have a look at their team that day and I would say not. Ward-Prowse had just been introduced into the first team and didn't look out of place then. When you consider that we player Kelvin, Hooiveld, Fox and Guly and look at our substitutions and subs bench, it is quite an eye-opener compared to what we have now, even without Lallana, Lambert and Shaw (who was only a sub then and pretty well an unknown quantity). Factor in also the subsequent two changes of manager since Adkins. I am sure that we will strengthen in all those areas you suggest and have made a damned good start at it with Tadic for Lallana. But talk about relegation/bottom at Christmas if we don't strengthen in all of those areas is just nonsense. Erm, weren't we bottom with that team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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