Stoke 2 Saints 3 - Match & Reactions

[Saint Pete]

Watching the highlights, Tadic involved in pretty much all of our best moves - he really is a class act. Will be interesting to see how we cope when we need to give him a rest.

[Rational Rich]

Just got back - was behind enemy lines in the Stoke end so had to be on my best behaviour. Missed the first 15 mins, and Graziano's apparent wonder goal due to appalling traffic on the M6.

 

A few thoughts:

 

Firstly great away attendance - to get over 2000 there tonight was amazing and was a great sight and sound from where I was sat in the main stand. However, best to save the "ole"s and "we want 8"s until after half time and certainly until after the game is won - just tempting fate

 

Pretty much an orthodox 442 there tonight (or at best 4411). Not seen that for a couple of years. Worked well initially, but thought we needed to change it as the second half wore on, as they started to control the midfield.

 

Second half we suffered either from complacency or fatigue - looked more like the former to me, as if we felt the game would just happen for us, casual in defence, casual in front of goal and ragged in midfield - we allowed Stoke back into a game which should have been dead and buried.

 

Not seen anything of Forster yet to suggest he is a step up from Boruc, not made any blunders as such but not seen a save from him that makes the difference.

 

Unlike many on here, I thought Big Vic had a decent game, yes he gave the ball away in the last quarter of the game, but so did most of the others in midfield. Gardos showed promise, but after his mistake in giving the ball away (where Jose saved him) he looked short on confidence. Targett did very well, looked at home.

 

Tadic though, what a player. Gets better each time I see him. Clearly tired towards the end, but some of his play in the first half was astonishing - enjoy it while he's here.

 

You could tell that someone was going to get sent off, just surprised it was crouch and not Adam.

 

All in all a satisfactory performance, sets up a semi final with Bournemouth nicely

[S-Clarke]

Watching the highlights, Tadic involved in pretty much all of our best moves - he really is a class act. Will be interesting to see how we cope when we need to give him a rest.

 

What strikes me is the weight and selection of his passes, always 100%. I've never seen someone so consistent with their weighting of passes.

 

It's not so much his pace, or his ability to get passed 5 or 6 players (which he can do!) but it's just his consistent end product. No huff and puff from his game.

[LostBoys]

Good performance against a nasty Stoke side. A bit worried about Forster and Gardos but otherwise ok. Bring on Hull for another 3 points.

[positivepete]

Just back from the game. Great first half, superb Pelle strike and good to see Long get a goal.

 

Garden and Targett dud well, midfield very assured. Could have had 2 more.

 

Worrying that we tired under the physical barrage in the second half. Tadic faded and Pelle looked out on his feet. Midfield mistakes crept in, Wanyama the worst culprit but not alone. Forster didn't take charge when they had a series of corners and the equaliser was inevitable.

 

Great character though to come back for the win, well taken by Pelle, great reaction.

 

Hard to pick between Fonte, Davis and Pelle for MOTM.

 

Tough job to recover for Hull.

 

Just back to my alternative Shropshire home. Agree with that, though not sure I would be worried about tiring, Stoke gave us a physical battering in the second half, goodness knows how Pelle has survived two games in a few days against them. Pelle was immense tonight in the same way as Tadic was at Arsenal in the last round.

 

We score when we want to, what a winning mentality we have in the squad, what is that, nine wins in ten games now? This is the new Saints, I am loving it.

[doddisalegend]

League cup highlights show on the BBC I-player now saints game starts on about 13 minutes

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04ncvh7/the-league-cup-show-20142015-29102014

[whelk]

Nice chaps those Stoke fans!

 

"I hope that thier chairman sells thier best players (again) in January and they disappear, horrible, horrible club".

 

Read more: http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/236119/stoke-city-southampton-capitol-cup?page=19#ixzz3HaBk6L40

 

 

 

 

If you are going on other clubs forums and getting upset about comments from some posters you can pretty much swap 'Stoke' with any team.

It is similar with the media - we get all the plaudits and then if one pundit says something negative everyone gets excitable.

Why are other club forums not posting constant praise for how brilliant we are?

[OldNick]

Why did Crouch lose his head.that was a straight red the 2 nd one

[Turkish]

Nice chaps those Stoke fans!

 

"I hope that thier chairman sells thier best players (again) in January and they disappear, horrible, horrible club".

 

Read more: http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/236119/stoke-city-southampton-capitol-cup?page=19#ixzz3HaBk6L40

 

 

 

 

Laughable some of them are arguing Crouchs first wasn't a yellow but would be if he smashed him in the face. If he'd have done that it's be a straight red. Regardless anyway it was a bloody silly second one only minutes after his first, only got himself to blame.

[Saint Without a Halo]

I like this one though

 

Southampton were mesmerising in the 1st half and bewildered Stoke; few teams would have lived with them.

 

Stoke showed some fight in the 2nd half and had the chances to score but the finishing was again woefully poor.

 

Fair result.

 

I

Read more: http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/236119/stoke-city-southampton-capitol-cup?page=19#ixzz3Hc9h3cgg

[ant]

After stopping once on the M6 and dropping my mates into central Southampton, I didn't get home until 2am. Today's going to be a long one and I couldn't care less

 

Slightly concerning that we let them back into the game, though not surprising the manner in which Stoke forced it. Showed great determination in going 'til the end - exactly the sort of spirit that could win a side a cup...

 

All of us were absolutely buzzing on the way back. Mutually agreed, without hesitation, that we've all got to make it to Sheffield for the next round.

 

What a time to be a Saints fan!

[Red and White Army]

Are the goals available anywhere online? Youtube ?

[Saint Without a Halo]

And this one

 

Statement

 

Southampton the new arsenal. Bunch of ****in ****s and ******s asslicked by the FA and their **** referees

 

Reply

 

Open your eyes. Southampton were superb. We (Stoke) played like a rabble of drunk farmers who'd **** their trousers (in comparison).

 

Read more: http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/236119/stoke-city-southampton-capitol-cup?page=19#ixzz3HcAkefrp

[John Boy Saint]

And this one

 

Statement

 

Southampton the new arsenal. Bunch of ****in ****s and ******s asslicked by the FA and their **** referees

 

Reply

 

Open your eyes. Southampton were superb. We (Stoke) played like a rabble of drunk farmers who'd **** their trousers (in comparison).

 

Read more: http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/236119/stoke-city-southampton-capitol-cup?page=19#ixzz3HcAkefrp

Blimey nights out in rural Staffordshire must be a sight to behold!!

[Professor]

Good outcome, obviously, but a couple of worries:

The slips by Gardos a real shame as it marred his first team opportunity. At CB, you simply can't afford unforced errors. I think it was Seaborne who slipped up against Peterborough and virtually ended his Saints' career, even before the night club assault. Different player, different manager, but you have to assume that Koeman won't have been impressed.

Forster has no real challenge to his place in the team so maybe he's too complacent. For me, he was at fault for both Stoke's goals and deserves to be dropped but we have no adequate replacement. Given we have a top quality goal-keeping coach, I hope Forster gets a serious talking to.

Stoke were a hard side, dirty really, but we are going to come up against teams who will play as hard and with more quality. If last night was a reminder about the need to maintain concentration the whole time, we might benefit from the scare.

[markr27]

If you look back at the goals Saints conceded against West Ham, Spurs and the first one tonight - all have been low long range shots that Forster has struggled to get down to.

I am sure this will be worked on over the coming weeks.

[S-Clarke]

Good outcome, obviously, but a couple of worries:

The slips by Gardos a real shame as it marred his first team opportunity. At CB, you simply can't afford unforced errors. I think it was Seaborne who slipped up against Peterborough and virtually ended his Saints' career, even before the night club assault. Different player, different manager, but you have to assume that Koeman won't have been impressed.

Forster has no real challenge to his place in the team so maybe he's too complacent. For me, he was at fault for both Stoke's goals and deserves to be dropped but we have no adequate replacement. Given we have a top quality goal-keeping coach, I hope Forster gets a serious talking to.

Stoke were a hard side, dirty really, but we are going to come up against teams who will play as hard and with more quality. If last night was a reminder about the need to maintain concentration the whole time, we might benefit from the scare.

 

Feel a bit sorry for him, as I personally felt we dicked around with it at the back too much prior to that slip - and the ball to him wasn't exactly ideal, he was put under enormous pressure with the hospital pass and unfortunately lost his footing. He lost his head a bit after that, but he's a good player and I'm not too concerned.

[SaintSteve]

Good outcome, obviously, but a couple of worries:

The slips by Gardos a real shame as it marred his first team opportunity. At CB, you simply can't afford unforced errors. I think it was Seaborne who slipped up against Peterborough and virtually ended his Saints' career, even before the night club assault. Different player, different manager, but you have to assume that Koeman won't have been impressed.

Forster has no real challenge to his place in the team so maybe he's too complacent. For me, he was at fault for both Stoke's goals and deserves to be dropped but we have no adequate replacement. Given we have a top quality goal-keeping coach, I hope Forster gets a serious talking to.

Stoke were a hard side, dirty really, but we are going to come up against teams who will play as hard and with more quality. If last night was a reminder about the need to maintain concentration the whole time, we might benefit from the scare.

 

We let our best goalkeeper go out on loan... There is nothing I have seen that makes Forster better than Boruc.

[sadoldgit]

Another excellent result. Not sure we would have won that one under Poch? This season just gets better and better.

[Verbal Kint]

We let our best goalkeeper go out on loan... There is nothing I have seen that makes Forster better than Boruc.

 

He doesn't try and do 3 cruyff turns to beat a striker. Or get beaten by 80 yard punts by opposition goalkeepers. Nor does he put the ball in row Z when trying to play it out from the back

 

Forster is weak on crosses, but every other aspect of his game is superior and at 26 we have him at the right age. He has great potential. Boruc is a decent keeper but is getting on a bit now and makes unacceptable errors

[The Cat]

Massively enjoyed last night. To take that many fans midweek for a cup game was a great effort and the travelling fans were rewarded with a fantastic win.

 

This team are something else.

[Professor]

He doesn't try and do 3 cruyff turns to beat a striker. Or get beaten by 80 yard punts by opposition goalkeepers. Nor does he put the ball in row Z when trying to play it out from the back.

Forster is weak on crosses, but every other aspect of his game is superior and at 26 we have him at the right age. He has great potential. Boruc is a decent keeper but is getting on a bit now and makes unacceptable errors

All very true but it doesn't hide the fact that we seem to be weak in the Keeper department. Cropper may be better than we know or Gazzaniga may be overcoming his weaknesses but I wouldn't feel too confident with either of them facing top Prem teams. Boruk isn't available and in any case he's probably past his sell-by date. Davis, excellent pro that he is, must be losing the battle with Old Father Time. In hindsight one of the reserve keepers could have been given a game last night and couldn't have done any worse than Forster. Might as well play one of them against Sheff Utd to remind Forster that there is competition.

[um pahars]

Why did Crouch lose his head.that was a straight red the 2 nd one

 

Very, very, very surprised that the ref gave a yellow for the second tackle by Crouch as having just seen the highlights it really should have bee a straight RED.

 

He totally lost his head microseconds after losing the ball and goes way over the top on Davis. No idea how anyone can defend him.

[View From The Top]

All very true but it doesn't hide the fact that we seem to be weak in the Keeper department. Cropper may be better than we know or Gazzaniga may be overcoming his weaknesses but I wouldn't feel too confident with either of them facing top Prem teams. Boruk isn't available and in any case he's probably past his sell-by date. Davis, excellent pro that he is, must be losing the battle with Old Father Time. In hindsight one of the reserve keepers could have been given a game last night and couldn't have done any worse than Forster. Might as well play one of them against Sheff Utd to remind Forster that there is competition.

 

Genius.

 

Chance of progressing to a semi final of a cup but no, let's play a 2nd or 3rd choice keeper just to give our England international keeper a reminder.

 

Real genius.

[scotty]

Very, very, very surprised that the ref gave a yellow for the second tackle by Crouch as having just seen the highlights it really should have bee a straight RED.

 

He totally lost his head microseconds after losing the ball and goes way over the top on Davis. No idea how anyone can defend him.

 

 

And right under the refs nose. Crouchy can't possibly have any complaints about that one.

[Ludwig]

Played well in the first howlf, but in the second howlf we let Stoke into it a bit.

[Saint Billy]

If you are going on other clubs forums and getting upset about comments from some posters you can pretty much swap 'Stoke' with any team.

It is similar with the media - we get all the plaudits and then if one pundit says something negative everyone gets excitable.

Why are other club forums not posting constant praise for how brilliant we are?

 

Where did I say I was upset?!!

 

On the contrary, I found reading their comments entertaining.

 

Unlike you obviously I like hearing and reading non saints fans opinions good and bad but it did amuse me that a Stoke fan of all people was calling us a horrible club.

 

Whelk, GAFL FFS!

[ant]

Very, very, very surprised that the ref gave a yellow for the second tackle by Crouch as having just seen the highlights it really should have bee a straight RED.

 

He totally lost his head microseconds after losing the ball and goes way over the top on Davis. No idea how anyone can defend him.

 

Agreed! Watched the highlights this morning and the look on Crouch's face is one of a man possessed. Bizarre.

[Minty]

Having watched it back a few times, the only thing I can think Crouch was trying to do was to step over the ball and put his body between the ball and Davis, but that he completely misjudged just how quickly Davis would get there (as most people do - he's incredibly quick to close down) and so as he reached out to step over the ball, he just clattered Davis instead.

 

I think it looks far worse than intended, and don't think he intended to stud him as it looked, but the result, a second yellow, was correct. I'd agree that some refs could well have given him a straight red for it, but I think he was just way too slow getting to the ball.

[Lazlo78]

Highlights: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x28wvih_stoke-city-vs-southampton-2-3-full-highlights-29-10-2014-capital-one-cup-hd_sport

[Give it to Ron]

So we drop a keeper who has conceded 6 in how many games? Great idea!!!

[S-Clarke]

So we drop a keeper who has conceded 6 in how many games? Great idea!!!

 

To be fair, only the odd nut case is suggesting that. Most people can see Forster as the better keeper.

 

The only criticism I'd have is his lack of commanding for the succession of corners (although Stoke did well to tie him to the line) and that first goal was savable, in my opinion. But he also made a good save from an over head kick, which came from no where and he was also unsighted.

 

So, good and bad last night. Certainly shouldn't be dropping him though!

[Lazlo78]

[Shroppie]

To be fair, only the odd nut case is suggesting that. Most people can see Forster as the better keeper.

 

The only criticism I'd have is his lack of commanding for the succession of corners (although Stoke did well to tie him to the line) and that first goal was savable, in my opinion. But he also made a good save from an over head kick, which came from no where and he was also unsighted.

 

So, good and bad last night. Certainly shouldn't be dropping him though!

Would agree with that. Was surprised he was so rooted to his line but guess he was well blocked off by a very physical team.

 

Would still like to see him come off his line more and take command. It takes pressure off defenders and in any collision the benefit for a free kick usually goes to the keeper.

[Saint Pete]

What strikes me is the weight and selection of his passes, always 100%. I've never seen someone so consistent with their weighting of passes.

 

It's not so much his pace, or his ability to get passed 5 or 6 players (which he can do!) but it's just his consistent end product. No huff and puff from his game.

 

Yes, and it's also down to composure on the ball. You never see him just "play the ball into an area", he is always aware of the runs other players are making and if no-one's free to begin with, he will hold it and wait for someone to make a run (Cork's goal against Sunderland was a great example of this).

[the saint in winchester]

If you look back at the goals Saints conceded against West Ham, Spurs and the first one tonight - all have been low long range shots that Forster has struggled to get down to.

I am sure this will be worked on over the coming weeks.

 

So I'm not the only one that has noticed this? It's understandable that at 6'7" it's a long way down. As you say, hopefully he can have coaching on this.

[The9]

Great win but why does the BBC not give us any credit

Listening in the car on the way back from hockey . And Alan green said Chelsea are the outstanding premiership team this season and they only team to come close to them is Citeh .

Why do the beeb allow such morons on the radio to spout this crap . Not a single mention if saints

 

Um, because he is obviously absolutely right.

[The9]

So I'm not the only one that has noticed this? It's understandable that at 6'7" it's a long way down. As you say, hopefully he can have coaching on this.

 

He was beaten by the shot today because it bounced just in front of him and crossed the path of a defender on the way so he had nothing to judge its movement against to determine where he should be diving. He couldn't see the ball for the critical part of its trajectory.

 

The one against Spurs went in the corner, through someone's legs and may even have slightly deflected, again, hard to see it.

[shurlock]

He was beaten by the shot today because it bounced just in front of him and crossed the path of a defender on the way so he had nothing to judge its movement against to determine where he should be diving. He couldn't see the ball for the critical part of its trajectory.

 

The one against Spurs went in the corner, through someone's legs and may even have slightly deflected, again, hard to see it.

 

And the two shots at Spurs preceding the goal? Weren't particularly convincing saves, regardless of your rationalisations.

[SaintTex]

So we drop a keeper who has conceded 6 in how many games? Great idea!!!

right? Look around the League.. 5 goals given after 9 games!

 

Yes, a lot of the credit can be given to the back 4, but still, 5 goals given in 9 League games. Davis, Cropper, Gazzaniga are not going to be upgrades.

 

On the second goal last night, I am more critical of the Saint player(s) who allowed the Stoke defender to cut in front of them on the corner, and head it to the back post. That is poor defending. You don't let your opponent to get easy position like that. (Sorry, the highlights I saw were pretty fuzzy, not sure who the players were involved on that corner).

[CanadaSaint]

So I'm not the only one that has noticed this? It's understandable that at 6'7" it's a long way down. As you say, hopefully he can have coaching on this.

 

I'm not sure coaching is going to help much because it's more a physical issue than one of technique. I've seen no reason to ditch the concerns I had back in August.

 

One of Forster's primary assets, his height, may also turn out to be one of his greatest liabilities.

 

Sure, he can be dominant with the high ball (and so far has been), but a common vulnerability for very tall keepers is difficulty getting down to low shots. I was rather disappointed with his effort on Sterling's goal, and that was an example of the potential problem - he advanced, stalled, and couldn't get down in time. Sure, he made a great save (with a leg) on Saturday but that was possible because Ideye was so close-in.

 

The PL is very unforgiving when player's weakness is spotted, so I really hope this doesn't turn out to be an issue.

 

I suspect that his weakness has been spotted, but I'm not seeing enough of his "plus side" - dominance on crosses. Granted, the route is usually blocked - especially against a team like Stoke, but I think we're going to need more from Forster than we've seen so far. Sure, we have a superb GA record but IMO that's largely down to the back four and the two playing in front of them.

[Stu Man Do]

I'm not sure coaching is going to help much because it's more a physical issue than one of technique. I've seen no reason to ditch the concerns I had back in August.

 

 

 

I suspect that his weakness has been spotted, but I'm not seeing enough of his "plus side" - dominance on crosses. Granted, the route is usually blocked - especially against a team like Stoke, but I think we're going to need more from Forster than we've seen so far. Sure, we have a superb GA record but IMO that's largely down to the back four and the two playing in front of them.

 

In fairness to Forster he has been pretty dominant crosses wise whilst at st Mary's. Saying that he hasn't had a whole heap to do so far at home and I would certainly like to see him get in some serious practice against these type of low down shots he seems to have a small issue with.

[SaintSteve]

I suspect that his weakness has been spotted, but I'm not seeing enough of his "plus side" - dominance on crosses. Granted, the route is usually blocked - especially against a team like Stoke, but I think we're going to need more from Forster than we've seen so far. Sure, we have a superb GA record but IMO that's largely down to the back four and the two playing in front of them.

 

Agreed... he has weaknesses I did not expect from a so-called International keeper. He lacks conviction in the penalty box, decision making is weak and is slow to come off his line. Hopefully, the Watson project will sort him out, but Koeman must see these issues.

For me, Boruc is a better keeper when it comes to the critical areas of goalkeeping, even if he has the odd mad moment.

[farawaysaint]

Agreed... he has weaknesses I did not expect from a so-called International keeper. He lacks conviction in the penalty box, decision making is weak and is slow to come off his line. Hopefully, the Watson project will sort him out, but Koeman must see these issues.

For me, Boruc is a better keeper when it comes to the critical areas of goalkeeping, even if he has the odd mad moment.

 

Foster has been very good, all keepers have weaknesses and Boruc has been at the job for a decade longer. Your last 3 posts have all been to criticize Foster, we get it but I still think you're wrong. I've been very impressed so far.

[SaintSteve]

Foster has been very good, all keepers have weaknesses and Boruc has been at the job for a decade longer. Your last 3 posts have all been to criticize Foster, we get it but I still think you're wrong. I've been very impressed so far.

 

Lets see how he performs in the difficult December run of games.. that will provide a better insight as he will get more action.

[doddisalegend]

Agreed... he has weaknesses I did not expect from a so-called International keeper. He lacks conviction in the penalty box, decision making is weak and is slow to come off his line. Hopefully, the Watson project will sort him out, but Koeman must see these issues.

For me, Boruc is a better keeper when it comes to the critical areas of goalkeeping, even if he has the odd mad moment.

 

odd mad moment? I use to **** myself every time Boruc got near the ball last season. In the games I've seen at SMS so far Forster has been excellent at coming for balls in his box. He isn't perfect he was certainly dodgy at spurs and not great last night but as yet he hasn't had any major cocks up that have cost us points unlike Boruc last season.

[Professor]

Would agree with that. Was surprised he was so rooted to his line but guess he was well blocked off by a very physical team.

 

Would still like to see him come off his line more and take command. It takes pressure off defenders and in any collision the benefit for a free kick usually goes to the keeper.

 

Foster has been very good, all keepers have weaknesses and Boruc has been at the job for a decade longer. Your last 3 posts have all been to criticize Foster, we get it but I still think you're wrong. I've been very impressed so far.

We are entitled to criticise when a keeper makes errors such as Forster did at Stoke, especially because he is supposed to be England's No.2 keeper and Southampton paid a lot of money for him. Shroppie refers to FF being rooted to his line, but for one of the corners, just before the second Stoke goal he came off his line and was flapping about like a demented jackdaw, without getting anywhere near the ball. Our best hope is Dave Watson, because that performance will not have gone unnoticed and I'm sure he will get some good advice. The question is - is he sensible enough to take it on board?

[angelman]

Agreed... he has weaknesses I did not expect from a so-called International keeper. He lacks conviction in the penalty box, decision making is weak and is slow to come off his line. Hopefully, the Watson project will sort him out, but Koeman must see these issues.

For me, Boruc is a better keeper when it comes to the critical areas of goalkeeping, even if he has the odd mad moment.

 

Lacks conviction in the box? Really? When a high ball gets sent in (like Stoke at SMS) he comes and catches it and is fairly dominant. For some reason I seem to think that AB might have punched it away. Maybe it's the physical presence of Forster that creates an illusion what with him being 10cm taller than Boruc.

[Ohio Saint]

In retrospect, I'm quite happy that Saints conceded two goals in a non-league game. It will give FF and the defence something to look at that they actually got wrong for once!

 

It's got to be difficult to make an analysis of your mistakes when you've only conceded 5 so far. I see Stoke's two goals as a positive for us in a game that didn't affect our GD in the league.

[dannysfc]

Was at the game last night as well as staying up there after the game at the "Right"

Hotel & I thought it was one "Crazy" game as in the 2nd half with the amount of

chances Saints had we really should have been clear at 3/4-1 but good old Pelle

saved the day for Saints along with Shane Long who I'm pleased for as that goal

will do him the world of good and confidence to get more!

I think we can beat Sheff Utd next and possibly go all the way to Wembley and

maybe even Win it but we'l see what happens.....!!!

COYR!