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Saints vs West Ham Post Match


Mr X

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Was the budgie that ran on the pitch a Saints fan?? If he was, with the team desperate for a win, what did the **** hope to achieve?

 

Hope he gets a ban for life!

 

I'm sure he was sat in front of me, he was grinning inanely throughout the match with his mate then he disappeared and the next thing I saw him running along the pitch like a dinlo. I couldn't tell if he was Saints or Wham though as he just seemed a bit weird. I hope it was worth it as no doubt he'd have been arrested.

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In view of the number of chances we created and that WH were down to 10 men for the last 20 minutes, it was frustrating to get nothing more than the point from the game. It was obvious from the start that WH were there only for the point from the instant that BFS claimed that they would emulate Swansea's tactics of parking the bus and hoping to hit us on the break. No doubt the donkey Carroll would be their weapon to create their opportunistic goal from a set-piece, but when Adrian was sent off, he was needed to defend from our corners and he cut a forlorn figure isolated up front most of the time. But in typical form, there was enough of a cameo of his range of falling down at the slightest contact to earn the derision of any serious fan that such a big lump as he could be such a pansy. But WH are a team coached in Fat Sam's image; niggly, moaning, cheating bastards. Despite the absence of their chief moaner Nolan, they still surrounded the referee b*tching about anything and everything.

 

Talking of the referee, where do they get these incompetents from? Just when you think that the FA must be scraping the bottom of the barrel, they produce an even worse one. As usual, the rival team got a succession of free kicks awarded to them, whilst identical fouls on our players were largely ignored. A blatant handball went unpunished and also a corner kick was seen by everybody close the the Chapel/Kingsland corner, but was completely ignored by the ref. He also ignored the time-wasting tactics by WH and the time added on was a joke.

 

The team played pretty well throughout most of the match and Reed instead of Ward-Prowse was effective, but deprived us of W-P's ability from dead ball situations. The midfiled outmuscled and outfought WH's for most of the match and the defence was again solid, with Yoshi slotting in well at LB. But we missed the pace of Bertrand, so WH realised that the main thrust would be from Clyne on the right. Having Elia and Mane gave us pace either side of Pelle and they did get behind WH on several occasions, but lacked the finishing touch.

 

Despite expectations that we might produce something when WH were down to 10 men, it is often accepted that a team of 10 players can successfully nullify the advantage by parking the bus and WH did that well. Also, there was not too much disadvantage to WH being able to replace Adrian with Jaaskelainen who is a very good keeper himself.

 

Until quite recently, West Ham were right up there with us and they have suffered a few injuries, but are still a force to be reckoned with. We have also suffered injuries, suspensions and the loss of players to the Afircan and Asian Cup competitions. We still sit in fourth position just one point away from United. We have a break of a week and a half until our next match, which will be the last of the Bertrand suspension, time to get Schneiderlin fully fit, to give Pelle a rest and to integrate Djuricic into the team. Some of our rivals are involved in Cup matches, so risk injuries, suspension and tiredness, so we should have an advantage coming back stronger. We play some of those rival and some of them play each other, so there is plenty that can change yet. We still have the meanest defence in the division, despite losing Bertrand, Alderweireld and Targett for some matches.

 

There is plenty to feel positive about. Most would have been incredulous at the beginning of the season if somebody had suggested that we could be 4th well into February.

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In view of the number of chances we created and that WH were down to 10 men for the last 20 minutes, it was frustrating to get nothing more than the point from the game. It was obvious from the start that WH were there only for the point from the instant that BFS claimed that they would emulate Swansea's tactics of parking the bus and hoping to hit us on the break. No doubt the donkey Carroll would be their weapon to create their opportunistic goal from a set-piece, but when Adrian was sent off, he was needed to defend from our corners and he cut a forlorn figure isolated up front most of the time. But in typical form, there was enough of a cameo of his range of falling down at the slightest contact to earn the derision of any serious fan that such a big lump as he could be such a pansy. But WH are a team coached in Fat Sam's image; niggly, moaning, cheating bastards. Despite the absence of their chief moaner Nolan, they still surrounded the referee b*tching about anything and everything..

 

I hate Carroll with the best of them, but didn't realise quite how good he is with his head at defending set pieces. Great balls put in by JWP right under the keeper with pace but the power and distance on his clearances meant we couldn't take advantage.

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I thought Davis provided plenty of forward thrust and attacking passes - would have been asking a lot of Djuricic at this stage; Wanyama does get forward a bit and can produce penetrative passes while JWP's role as an attacking Mid is still to be proved, dead ball delivery aside.
I just think we Mane and Elia, we need someone that can pick the quick, defence splitting pass, while I'd be happy to give up some of the hard work pressing/tackling from Reed/Wanyama/Davis against a team that were never going to have much possession anyway.
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I hate Carroll with the best of them, but didn't realise quite how good he is with his head at defending set pieces. Great balls put in by JWP right under the keeper with pace but the power and distance on his clearances meant we couldn't take advantage.

Certainly Carroll is a good header of the ball, just as Crouch is a good target man for a high ball. Thankfully he is not as good with the ball at his feet. But he is a loathsome individual when he tries to con the idiot referees who think that as he had been tackled by a 5'6" midget, such a big lump as him had to have been fouled. Fellaini is also in a very similar mould of cheating bastard for such a big lump. Our big players like Lambert was and Pelle is, stay on their feet when tackled more often than not. I'm torn between wishing that we employed the sort of gamesmanship that Big Fat Sam does, or hoping forlornly that eventually it will be stamped on by the authorities.

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Very frustrating game. Adkins would have drawn the blue line. We are still 4th. Lets take it out on the Scouse b*stards. A win will feel like 6 points as we all but end their dreams of a top 4 finish.
A ten day break between games comes at a decent time, chance for the likes of Pelle to come back refreshed. JUst a pity Bertrand will still be out for the Scousers game.
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Very frustrating night but we are missing goals all around the park, for a while we had Cork, Clyne, Morgan getting a couple but no centre backs scoring from set pieces like JT does on a regular basis. Not all down to Pelle although he should have had one last night. Did my Mrs hear right on Sky, she reckons Paul Merson said WHU were the better team, on Talksport last night one of our fans had a say about the way WH played and Cundy said afterwards that we shouldn't expect teams to come and let us play but with a plan to stop us and WH done that well. They did do it well, typical Sam performance, maybe that's why their fans still don't sing his name, they were brought up on good football.

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In a way, I kind of wish the red card hadn't happened. As soon as it did, W Ham literally parked the bus and just hoped they could hold out for the draw, let alone hit us on the break and win. At least with 11 men on the pitch it would have been much more open and we might have actually got in behind them once or twice, but with the two compact banks of 4 camped in their own half we could have played until midnight and not scored.

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Generally a frustrating evening, but not much to be too downhearted by. I just want Tadic and Pelle to find their confidence again, as they're both quite clearly on the floor at the moment. They're both good players as we've seen, but they're overdoing it every time at the moment with extra touches, or flicks etc that aren't really needed. (Not sure if it's a physiological reaction, more touches, try to open up a cleaner shot, or pass up the opportunity to someone else to ''miss'' etc.)

 

Mane and Elia needed to do a hell of a lot more last night. They did frustrate me as with their pace they should have pulled WHU all over the show, but they were so static and their movement was not good or quick enough. Pelle needs more life around him, but it just wasn't happening.

 

We're playing well generally though, we always have good control of games and dominate the possession most of the time - but we need to do more in the final third with that sort of domination. It took Fonte in the 86th min to have the first proper pot on goal to bring a save out of Jusi - what's that all about?? We don't gamble enough in the final third at the moment, trying to be too safe - which as I said above, I think is down to confidence.

 

We've got ourselves into an amazing position, and to play in any sort of European competition next season will be a remarkable achievement - and even though the Top 4 is and always will be somewhat of a slim chance, the Top 6 is the real target.

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Frustrating but that's how it's going to be from now til the end of season, teams know exactly how to shape up against us at St Mary's. And that's why we'll probably finish 6th or 7th, we haven't got the clinical firepower to punish the bus-parkers, Pelle is a top player for us but too much hangs on his shoulders.

 

Shame we haven't got a crowd these days to ruffle visiting defenders into making mistakes, they get too an easy ride from the mostly quiet stands.

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Generally a frustrating evening, but not much to be too downhearted by. I just want Tadic and Pelle to find their confidence again, as they're both quite clearly on the floor at the moment. They're both good players as we've seen, but they're overdoing it every time at the moment with extra touches, or flicks etc that aren't really needed. (Not sure if it's a physiological reaction, more touches, try to open up a cleaner shot, or pass up the opportunity to someone else to ''miss'' etc.)

 

Mane and Elia needed to do a hell of a lot more last night. They did frustrate me as with their pace they should have pulled WHU all over the show, but they were so static and their movement was not good or quick enough. Pelle needs more life around him, but it just wasn't happening.

 

We're playing well generally though, we always have good control of games and dominate the possession most of the time - but we need to do more in the final third with that sort of domination. It took Fonte in the 86th min to have the first proper pot on goal to bring a save out of Jusi - what's that all about?? We don't gamble enough in the final third at the moment, trying to be too safe - which as I said above, I think is down to confidence.

 

We've got ourselves into an amazing position, and to play in any sort of European competition next season will be a remarkable achievement - and even though the Top 4 is and always will be somewhat of a slim chance, the Top 6 is the real target.

 

Disagree - Mane had a very good game - was easily our main threat; Elia less so, often meek in possession, content to go back to Maya who obviously isnt as dynamic as Bertrand.

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West Ham United

Once renown as the 'Science of Football' team now reduced to 'hoof ball' tactics.

Still they may well go down in the annals of football in these parts as being one of the very few, and possibly the only team able to despatch the ball out of the ground from a clearance.

Congratulations!!!

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Frustrating but that's how it's going to be from now til the end of season, teams know exactly how to shape up against us at St Mary's. And that's why we'll probably finish 6th or 7th, we haven't got the clinical firepower to punish the bus-parkers, Pelle is a top player for us but too much hangs on his shoulders.

 

Shame we haven't got a crowd these days to ruffle visiting defenders into making mistakes, they get too an easy ride from the mostly quiet stands.

 

That bit i agree with. The downside of being a Top 4 side is that other clubs now see getting a point at/against Saints as something to be celebrated. We are going to have to find a way of getting past stubborn defences. We don't look like we can now, so hope they have the chalkboard out at their secret location. Preferably not some of Van Gaal's diagrams though. :)

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What like Victor in the first half you mean, ended up in touch down by the corner flag. If you're going to do that it's best not to bother really. Good keepers don't always get fooled by long range punts 30 yds out.

 

I'm talking about the multiple chances we had to shoot either inside the box or just outside. I don't think you can use Victors shot from 40 yards off balance with his weaker foot as a reason to not have a pop....

 

We have a problem that none of Tadic, Davis, JWP, Elia, and Mane seem to be able to shoot from the edge of the box.

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West Ham United

Once renown as the 'Science of Football' team now reduced to 'hoof ball' tactics.

Still they may well go down in the annals of football in these parts as being one of the very few, and possibly the only team able to despatch the ball out of the ground from a clearance.

Congratulations!!!

 

Think the school of science moniker refers to everton - either way, certainly seemed like wham had been taking lessons from NASA.

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I'm talking about the multiple chances we had to shoot either inside the box or just outside. I don't think you can use Victors shot from 40 yards off balance with his weaker foot as a reason to not have a pop....

 

We have a problem that none of Tadic, Davis, JWP, Elia, and Mane seem to be able to shoot from the edge of the box.

 

They can all probably shoot extremely well from outside the box if they have time and space to do it, they either have instructions not to do that or they're lacking in instantaneous aptitude.

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Never should have removed Mané. He'd have scored in the way the game panned out towards the end. An immense 3 points lost to add to those lost against Swansea who couldn't beat West Brom tonight. No goals and we'll soon lose our position in the coming weeks.

 

He was a lot more likely sent off, as he probably should have been when he made his second yellow card tackle of the night. Well, first yellow card tackle but he'd been booked already.

 

If anything we left subbing him riskily late - he pretty much only sprinted to close Adrian down because we had a sub on the touchline and he must have thought he was getting taken off and may as well use up his energy.

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Djuricic looked tidy but more of a floating no10 than a winger IMO.

 

In home games where we struggle to break people down I think he or Tadic could play centrally instead of Davis or JWP.

 

I thought he looked rather...what's the word? "Gaston-y". Hopefully that's an anomaly not a longer term thing - although Gaston himself actually looked decent against Man City for Hull last week.

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I hate Carroll with the best of them, but didn't realise quite how good he is with his head at defending set pieces. Great balls put in by JWP right under the keeper with pace but the power and distance on his clearances meant we couldn't take advantage.

 

The one he didn't defend was the one when Yoshida headed wide (and should have hit the target).

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I thought he looked rather...what's the word? "Gaston-y". Hopefully that's an anomaly not a longer term thing - although Gaston himself actually looked decent against Man City for Hull last week.

 

Never really understood the Gaston loan, just the sort of creativity we needed last night, especially for the last 30 minutes, he came up with some crucial assists about this time last year to help win games.

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In a way, I kind of wish the red card hadn't happened. As soon as it did, W Ham literally parked the bus and just hoped they could hold out for the draw, let alone hit us on the break and win. At least with 11 men on the pitch it would have been much more open and we might have actually got in behind them once or twice, but with the two compact banks of 4 camped in their own half we could have played until midnight and not scored.

 

I believe they literally parked the bus about an hour and a half before the match. They literally did not so after the red card. You literally do not know what literally literally means.

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Never really understood the Gaston loan, just the sort of creativity we needed last night, especially for the last 30 minutes, he came up with some crucial assists about this time last year to help win games.

 

I wouldn't go that far, just pointing out that now he's managed to have something resembling a run in a team he's starting to look much more comfortable dealing with the challenges of Premier League. He's still looking fairly run of the mill in a pretty poor Hull side, even if he did deflect a shot onto the post past Joe Hart last week.

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I believe they literally parked the bus about an hour and a half before the match. They literally did not so after the red card. You literally do not know what literally literally means.

 

You must love Jamie Redknapp and his contributions to the English language.

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West Ham United

Once renown as the 'Science of Football' team now reduced to 'hoof ball' tactics.

Still they may well go down in the annals of football in these parts as being one of the very few, and possibly the only team able to despatch the ball out of the ground from a clearance.

Congratulations!!!

 

Not the only one, I've seen it happen about 3 times. However, that's also the least hoofy they've been in their last 3 visits.

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I'm talking about the multiple chances we had to shoot either inside the box or just outside. I don't think you can use Victors shot from 40 yards off balance with his weaker foot as a reason to not have a pop....

 

We have a problem that none of Tadic, Davis, JWP, Elia, and Mane seem to be able to shoot from the edge of the box.

When Mane powder puffed a free kick from outside the box it highlighted our lack of players wanting to own the responsibility (1st half). Koeman himself was a free kick specialist, surprised we don't have one.

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Frustrating but that's how it's going to be from now til the end of season, teams know exactly how to shape up against us at St Mary's. And that's why we'll probably finish 6th or 7th, we haven't got the clinical firepower to punish the bus-parkers, Pelle is a top player for us but too much hangs on his shoulders.

 

Shame we haven't got a crowd these days to ruffle visiting defenders into making mistakes, they get too an easy ride from the mostly quiet stands.

 

By the same token, we know how to play the other top teams, don't we? The reality is that some teams like West Ham and Swansea tried to shut down our style of play by parking the bus and hoped to hit us on the break, but if they tried to play like that at home, they would be murdered by their fans, who would not accept that they did not go for the win. Perhaps that's why our away record is so impressive.

 

But there is a flaw in your argument. There are not too many matches left to play and the teams in the relegation zone have to pick up three points, not one, in order to put clear water between them and their rivals.The draw suited West Ham and to a certain extent Swansea, because both are probably safe from the drop, but had several players out, so their tactics were dictated to them through necessity. Lower down teams will just have to go for the win.

 

Pochettino was sussed by the cannier managers after a while because his style was predictable and he only had a Plan A. Koeman has already proved that he is capable of mixing it up with other strategies to cover players injured or suspended and the number of shots made in both the Swansea and West Ham games would normally be enough to get a goal or two with better finishing. Even if Pelle isn't putting them away, we have had goals from many other players, right through the team. It is only recently that the option of playing Mane and Elia either side of Pelle and Koeman needs to see how effective Djuricic can be and in which position. He has 10 days to work on that and the players have a much needed rest period to come back from injuries and tiredness. Let's wait and see how that pans out before making judgements about where we will finish the season in May.

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By the same token, we know how to play the other top teams, don't we? The reality is that some teams like West Ham and Swansea tried to shut down our style of play by parking the bus and hoped to hit us on the break, but if they tried to play like that at home, they would be murdered by their fans, who would not accept that they did not go for the win. Perhaps that's why our away record is so impressive.

 

But there is a flaw in your argument. There are not too many matches left to play and the teams in the relegation zone have to pick up three points, not one, in order to put clear water between them and their rivals.The draw suited West Ham and to a certain extent Swansea, because both are probably safe from the drop, but had several players out, so their tactics were dictated to them through necessity. Lower down teams will just have to go for the win.

 

Pochettino was sussed by the cannier managers after a while because his style was predictable and he only had a Plan A. Koeman has already proved that he is capable of mixing it up with other strategies to cover players injured or suspended and the number of shots made in both the Swansea and West Ham games would normally be enough to get a goal or two with better finishing. Even if Pelle isn't putting them away, we have had goals from many other players, right through the team. It is only recently that the option of playing Mane and Elia either side of Pelle and Koeman needs to see how effective Djuricic can be and in which position. He has 10 days to work on that and the players have a much needed rest period to come back from injuries and tiredness. Let's wait and see how that pans out before making judgements about where we will finish the season in May.

 

Les, last night was a carbon copy of many the games we saw under MP. Stop pulling transparently self-serving distinctions out of your **** to justify criticism of one manager but not the other. My view, FWIW as you're so interested in it, is that neither manager deserves too much flak as breaking down a team intent on defending is extremely difficult.

Edited by shurlock
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Les, last night was a carbon copy of many the games we saw under MP. Stop pulling transparently self-serving distinctions out of your **** to justify criticism of one manager but not the other. My view, FWIW as you're so interested in it, is that neither manager deserves too much flak as breaking down a team intent on defending is extremely difficult.

 

Ok, Shylock, so you disagree. Fair enough.

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The bottom line is we need the likes of Pelle and Tadic to recover their early-season form from here on in to hold off the big clubs on our tails now.

 

We have proved we are an excellent solid side at the back and in midfield who can dominate a lot of the play against top half opposition even without some of our key players in the team, but you need to create and score clear-cut chances to get the 3 points, and in my opinion, it's Pelle and Tadic that we most rely on to do that.

 

Maybe the 10 day break will be what Pelle needs to rest up and come back refreshed for the Liverpool game? I think Tadic needs to come back into the side for that one, as personally not keen on both Elia and Mane alongside Pelle. Tadic brings more balance and creativity (if he can recover his form).

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The bottom line is we need the likes of Pelle and Tadic to recover their early-season form from here on in to hold off the big clubs on our tails now.

 

We have proved we are an excellent solid side at the back and in midfield who can dominate a lot of the play against top half opposition even without some of our key players in the team, but you need to create and score clear-cut chances to get the 3 points, and in my opinion, it's Pelle and Tadic that we most rely on to do that.

 

Maybe the 10 day break will be what Pelle needs to rest up and come back refreshed for the Liverpool game? I think Tadic needs to come back into the side for that one, as personally not keen on both Elia and Mane alongside Pelle. Tadic brings more balance and creativity (if he can recover his form).

 

Agreed

Id play something like this for Liverpool game:

 

Forster

Clyne Fonte Toby? Yoshida

Morgan Wanyama

Davis Mane Tadic

Pelle.

 

Bench: Davis, Gardos, McCarthy, JWP, Elia, Djuricic, Reed.

 

Someone like Long or Jay Rod would have been decent options off the bench

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I believe they literally parked the bus about an hour and a half before the match. They literally did not so after the red card. You literally do not know what literally literally means.

 

Yes, well done you. Completely ignore the crux of the point I was making and instead pick me up on a single expression that I used, in the full knowledge that it was 'literally' incorrect, in order to make it obvious to the average SWF user what I meant.

 

The term 'parking the bus' usually refers to a team defending deep with the hope that a breakaway attack might bring them a goal. When WHU camped in their own half last night they had absolutely no intention of trying to hit us on the break, rather they were trying simply to stop us from scoring and holding on to get a point, making the expression more appropriate than in its regular use.

 

I'm sorry if this thinly-veiled inference was lost to your superior literary intellect.

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Yes, well done you. Completely ignore the crux of the point I was making and instead pick me up on a single expression that I used, in the full knowledge that it was 'literally' incorrect, in order to make it obvious to the average SWF user what I meant.

 

The term 'parking the bus' usually refers to a team defending deep with the hope that a breakaway attack might bring them a goal. When WHU camped in their own half last night they had absolutely no intention of trying to hit us on the break, rather they were trying simply to stop us from scoring and holding on to get a point, making the expression more appropriate than in its regular use.

 

I'm sorry if this thinly-veiled inference was lost to your superior literary intellect.

He's very pompous when it comes to the premiership.

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Why don't we shoot on the edge of the box? One example - Davis was running through them in the second half and they parted like the red Sea but we then passed to his left instead of shooting at the goal! It's crazy - they need to practice shooting for 8 hours a day until they can do it!
This. Often, the tiniest of deflections finds a not so good shot on goal in the back of the net. Take the shot; something good might happen.
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Frustrated, disappointed but not depressed. Although I had the slight worry of any long term Saints fan that WH would get something on the break, that soon went. Our defence and midfield, even with enforced changes, seems to get better by the game. Harry Reed also seems to be improving every time I see him. I reckon JWP only came on for fresh legs and the potential of a free kick around the box.

 

But yes, our resources in attack don't have the depth of the _financial_ big boys, even if we are up there with, or above, them. But with Long, Rodriguez and Gallagher all out injured I can see why we wouldn't buy just at the moment. We would need to get somebody better, who is available, wants to come to us (Osvaldo??!), who we can afford, and whose club is willing to sell. So I'm not one of the simplistic "we should have bought another striker" school of thought, even if we do need one.

 

I just hope Pelle is allowed a few days off, back to mum's home cooking, and then a return refreshed and ready for the fray.

 

When all is said and done, we are still fourth. We may well slip a place or two, but to read some on here you'd thing that rapid descent down the table was a foregone conclusion. In the meantime I'm still allowing myself a chuckle at BFS's pretensions to sophisticated football...

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