Injury Watch

[um pahars]

Really surprised at how opinions can be so different as I've been desperate to get Fraser back between the sticks, as whilst Stekelenberg has been ok, I consider not a patch on FF.

 

That said I'd keep him as a number 2

[Dig Dig]

His short passing is miles better too. Always feel like FF is a liability with the ball at his feet.

 

I thought FF was pretty good but that was from using Davis and Boruc as a benchmark. I do think his tendency to stay stuck to his line a bit of a liability though. Hard to know what to make of Stek. He's. Not had loads to do. Pretty good to be a keeper at Saints as you tend to look very decent.... Unless you're Davis or Gazza

[Goatboy]

I really hope we sign Stek permanently in January. Close call between the two of them imho. Stekelenberg has the jersey and FF should have to win it back. Can only be good for Saints.

[stknowle]

Really surprised at how opinions can be so different as I've been desperate to get Fraser back between the sticks, as whilst Stekelenberg has been ok, I consider not a patch on FF.

 

That said I'd keep him as a number 2

 

What has Stek done wrong though? Willian free kick maybe but can't think of a lot else. His distribution is very assured which cannot always be said for FF and can NEVER be said for feckin KD.

[david in sweden]

I thought FF was pretty good but that was from using Davis and Boruc as a benchmark. I do think his tendency to stay stuck to his line a bit of a liability though. Hard to know what to make of Stek. He's Not had loads to do.

Pretty good to be a keeper at Saints as you tend to look very decent.... Unless you're Davis or Gazza

 

Stek seems very capable of doing what he needs to do. Not afraid to punch rather than catch, and not afraid to come off his line either.

 

.......perhaps also a sign of having good defenders in front of him, too? We have plenty of choices and the " regular " back four look fairly dependable.

 

**(I wouldn't want to start the arguement of..... Toby or VvD, but I don't think we are missing Toby as much as many may have thought .....).

[VectisSaint]

What has Stek done wrong though? Willian free kick maybe but can't think of a lot else. His distribution is very assured which cannot always be said for FF and can NEVER be said for feckin KD.

Stek hasn't done anything wrong (and the Willian free kick was in no way the fault of the keeper, personally don't think anyone would have got that in the same circumstances, it was just a superbly placed and paced free kick which he has now repeated several times). Personally I think Stek is as good if not better than Fraser, but has not had that much to do to be honest. But when Fraser is fit he will be back between the sticks regardless, because he is our number one keeper and will be better long term.

[um pahars]

What has Stek done wrong though? Willian free kick maybe but can't think of a lot else. His distribution is very assured which cannot always be said for FF and can NEVER be said for feckin KD.

 

Agree that he hasn't done much wrong, just my opinion/perception that we look more solid with FF in goal.

[Batman]

Stek hasn't done anything wrong (and the Willian free kick was in no way the fault of the keeper, personally don't think anyone would have got that in the same circumstances, it was just a superbly placed and paced free kick which he has now repeated several times). Personally I think Stek is as good if not better than Fraser, but has not had that much to do to be honest. But when Fraser is fit he will be back between the sticks regardless, because he is our number one keeper and will be better long term.

 

assuming FF remain fit, I can see him being (back as) our No.1 by easter.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Need to keep both as clearly Liverpool or Spurs will be in for one of them at some point.

[Pilchards]

Need to keep both as clearly Liverpool or Spurs will be in for one of them at some point.

 

Not a chance.

 

For starters Streck won't be good enough for them while Forster will not leave here for a few years.

Jack Butland is going to be the one most top teams will chase.

[hutch]

Need to keep both as clearly Liverpool or Spurs will be in for one of them at some point.

Stek is only here on loan.

[WealdSaint]

As Stek is loaned from Fulham I am sure we could sign him if we want to

[CB Fry]

As Stek is loaned from Fulham I am sure we could sign him if we want to

It's possible he has no interest in signing for us to be back up to a fully fit Frazer. He might do, but he might want to be first choice somewhere else.

[angelman]

Can't see him signing to sit on the bench. He came to us as he wanted to resurrect a career that had stagnated and we needed someone. Suited both parties very well, and I am sure that he is pragmatic about FF should he be fit again this season. Advantage to us is that we might (presuming FF does gain fitness) have a very good GK situation for this season.

[sadoldgit]

Not a chance.

 

For starters Streck won't be good enough for them while Forster will not leave here for a few years.

Jack Butland is going to be the one most top teams will chase.

 

Weren't we supposed to be in for Butland a couple of years ago? He was a hot prospect then went off the boil for a bit but certainly looking good at the moment.

[Professor]

Back on the subject of injuries, the International break must be very welcome for once as it gives JRod and Shane Long a chance to recover and regain fitness. Without them available, RK's options have been limited. Still a good starting XI but the bench has looked light without one or both.

[Patrick Bateman]

It's possible he has no interest in signing for us to be back up to a fully fit Frazer. He might do, but he might want to be first choice somewhere else.

 

Exactly this. IF we were in Europe and playing more games, then we might get away with having two very good goalkeepers in the squad next season. But, if, but, if.

[St Chalet]

Back on the subject of injuries, the International break must be very welcome for once as it gives JRod and Shane Long a chance to recover and regain fitness. Without them available, RK's options have been limited. Still a good starting XI but the bench has looked light without one or both.

 

Not so sure about that http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34762846

[Shroppie]

Not so sure about that http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34762846

Isn't it down to the club to declare him unfit?

 

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[Shroppie]

It's possible he has no interest in signing for us to be back up to a fully fit Frazer. He might do, but he might want to be first choice somewhere else.

Stek has been as good as, or better than FF in all areas apart from the occasional brilliant save, IMO.

 

I would love to sign him and think he could keep his place. Frazer could take along time to regain fitness and sharpness.

 

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[Batman]

Stek has been as good as, or better than FF in all areas apart from the occasional brilliant save, IMO.

 

I would love to sign him and think he could keep his place. Frazer could take along time to regain fitness and sharpness.

 

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lets say FF is fully fit and ready for 1st team football by February. Stek is here till the summer regardless

 

are you suggesting FF may not be fully fit and fully sharp come August 2016?

[Shroppie]

lets say FF is fully fit and ready for 1st team football by February. Stek is here till the summer regardless

 

are you suggesting FF may not be fully fit and fully sharp come August 2016?

I hope he will, but with any injury as serious as his, you can never be sure of a full recovery.

 

And there is the possibility that he will not displace Stek. For example, if like JRod, his comeback is slowish and stuttering, Stek could be the better option.

 

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Edited 9 November, 2015 by Shroppie

[Batman]

Payet ruled out for 3 months.

Harsh

[The9]

Payet ruled out for 3 months.

Harsh

 

Good news for us though, they'll be in freefall now.

[Saint Charlie]

Good news for us though, they'll be in freefall now.

Doubt it. They have a good enough squad to deal with it. He is a class player but they won't suddenly drop like a stone without him.

[SuperSAINT]

Doubt it. They have a good enough squad to deal with it. He is a class player but they won't suddenly drop like a stone without him.

 

This is neither here or there but speaking about their squad, I saw Antonio was linked with Derby -- I'd completely forgotten he'd signed for West Ham.

[The9]

Doubt it. They have a good enough squad to deal with it. He is a class player but they won't suddenly drop like a stone without him.

 

He's been absolutely instrumental to pretty much everything they've created this season, it'd be like us losing Mane and they probably don't have as much depth as us.

 

They do have a relatively decent run of fixtures until new year though, aside from Spurs and Man U away. But any less than 12 points and they're dropping off:

 

22 Nov Tottenham (A)

29 Nov West Brom (H)

5 Dec Man United (A)

12 Dec Stoke City (H)

20 Dec Swansea City (A)

26 Dec Aston Villa (A)

28 Dec Southampton (H)

[The9]

This is neither here or there but speaking about their squad, I saw Antonio was linked with Derby -- I'd completely forgotten he'd signed for West Ham.

 

So had David Gold, who unknowingly retweeted a picture of him as a missing person last week.

 

Edited 10 November, 2015 by The9

[SuperSAINT]

So had David Gold, who unknowingly retweeted a picture of him as a missing person last week.

 

 

That's quality!

[the saint in winchester]

Can't see him signing to sit on the bench. He came to us as he wanted to resurrect a career that had stagnated and we needed someone. Suited both parties very well, and I am sure that he is pragmatic about FF should he be fit again this season. Advantage to us is that we might (presuming FF does gain fitness) have a very good GK situation for this season.

 

No reason why he will do that. Goalkeeping position can be shared so both keepers play 20 games per season.

[the saint in winchester]

This is neither here or there but speaking about their squad, I saw Antonio was linked with Derby -- I'd completely forgotten he'd signed for West Ham.

 

A real shame he hasn't had a look in. And he can do a heap better than Derby. Would like us to show an interest come January.

[Dark Munster]

No reason why he will do that. Goalkeeping position can be shared so both keepers play 20 games per season.

That's what I've been advocating, but according to some experts here that would be far too difficult for our poor delicate defenders to handle. A far better strategy apparently is to have just one good GK and cross your fingers that the clowns who are backups won't be needed.

[CB Fry]

No reason why he will do that. Goalkeeping position can be shared so both keepers play 20 games per season.

Which clubs actually do that? Just sounds like a situation that is completely unsatisfactory for everyone involved. Are the 20 games each predetermined at the start of the season, or is each keeper told "make one mistake and you're dropped".

 

Also, can you point me in the direction of the outfield players taking part in this twenty games each rolling rota idea? What League games is Fonte getting binned off for to give someone else a go?

 

Ronald doesn't do it for the rest of the squad so the idea he's going to start with the keeper is fanciful at best.

Edited 11 November, 2015 by CB Fry

[Andy Durman]

Stekelenberg is at the same level as Foster. It depends on both of them who plays match day. At the moment it's Stek for obvious reasons and rightly so. Foster may have to take a back seat for most of this season as he rehabilitates.

[Andy Durman]

Sneaky feeling Stek will be our first signing in January

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Sneaky feeling Stek will be our first signing in January

 

That would make absolutely no sense for him or us.

[Appy]

Stekelenberg is at the same level as Foster. It depends on both of them who plays match day. At the moment it's Stek for obvious reasons and rightly so. Foster may have to take a back seat for most of this season as he rehabilitates.

 

What about Forster?

[sadoldgit]

That would make absolutely no sense for him or us.

 

Makes perfect sense for us I think. He might not want to sit on the bench but who knows, perhaps he might here? We can only ask.

[sadoldgit]

Which clubs actually do that? Just sounds like a situation that is completely unsatisfactory for everyone involved. Are the 20 games each predetermined at the start of the season, or is each keeper told "make one mistake and you're dropped".

 

Also, can you point me in the direction of the outfield players taking part in this twenty games each rolling rota idea? What League games is Fonte getting binned off for to give someone else a go?

 

Ronald doesn't do it for the rest of the squad so the idea he's going to start with the keeper is fanciful at best.

 

Didn't England rotate Clemence and Shilton some years ago? Not ideal but probably works better at International level.

[The9]

Didn't England rotate Clemence and Shilton some years ago? Not ideal but probably works better at International level.

 

It was a terrible idea then too, as illustrated by the fact no-one's done it again in the 40 years since.

 

The problem with rotating your keeper is that part of the stability of your defence is everyone knowing what everyone else is going to do, regimenting their routines and movement and reacting off each other's actions in the most efficient way possible.

 

As soon as you change any of those positions you lose some of your advantage and instead of being a stable unit reading what's happening in front of you, making attacking movements predictable and anticipating everything, the defence becomes more reactive to what happens because they don't know how their colleagues will react and have to wait to see and then adjust accordingly.

 

To deliberately add a lower level of familiarity to that defensive unit by rotating the one person who can see EVERYTHING in front of him seems foolhardy - though obviously the effects can be mitigated by training with all the options so everyone is familar with all the tendencies of everyone else - but even then there's a delayed reaction compared to ALWAYS knowing what EVERYONE will do without having to think who they and what they'll do first.

 

I remember the fear when Pardew switched in 3 new players to the back 4 at the same time (though in hindsight they were 3 of the best defenders in the division) - but as we showed against Villa and Bournemouth, if you also have enough protection in front of your defence, or the opposition are just ponderous when attacking, it also doesn't matter quite as much and you can get away with changes.

Edited 11 November, 2015 by The9

[iansums]

Sneaky feeling Stek will be our first signing in January

 

Where does Stek live?

[Dark Munster]

It was a terrible idea then too, as illustrated by the fact no-one's done it again in the 40 years since.

 

The problem with rotating your keeper is that part of the stability of your defence is everyone knowing what everyone else is going to do, regimenting their routines and movement and reacting off each other's actions in the most efficient way possible.

 

As soon as you change any of those positions you lose some of your advantage and instead of being a stable unit reading what's happening in front of you, making attacking movements predictable and anticipating everything, the defence becomes more reactive to what happens because they don't know how their colleagues will react and have to wait to see and then adjust accordingly.

 

To deliberately add a lower level of familiarity to that defensive unit by rotating the one person who can see EVERYTHING in front of him seems foolhardy - though obviously the effects can be mitigated by training with all the options so everyone is familar with all the tendencies of everyone else - but even then there's a delayed reaction compared to ALWAYS knowing what EVERYONE will do without having to think who they and what they'll do first.

 

I remember the fear when Pardew switched in 3 new players to the back 4 at the same time (though in hindsight they were 3 of the best defenders in the division) - but as we showed against Villa and Bournemouth, if you also have enough protection in front of your defence, or the opposition are just ponderous when attacking, it also doesn't matter quite as much and you can get away with changes.

I have to disagree, I think you are overstating the impact of a GK on outfield play: the exception being if he's crap, in which case the defence and the rest of the team will indeed suffer (case in point, Kelvin against Leicester). Rotating goalkeepers shouldn't impact the rest of the team, as long as they are both quality. It's not as if the rest of the 10 players are the same each week: most weeks there is at least one change anyway, forced or tactical. Barcelona are rotating 2 quality GKs, and Fergie at ManU did it a few years ago, as well as Pulis when he was at Stoke.

[VectisSaint]

Anyone know what has happened to Ramirez? No sign of him recently again, missing from last weekend's squad, now missing from training on Twitter video. I guess he is injured yet again.

[Stud mark of doom]

I have to disagree, I think you are overstating the impact of a GK on outfield play: the exception being if he's crap, in which case the defence and the rest of the team will indeed suffer (case in point, Kelvin against Leicester). Rotating goalkeepers shouldn't impact the rest of the team, as long as they are both quality. It's not as if the rest of the 10 players are the same each week: most weeks there is at least one change anyway, forced or tactical. Barcelona are rotating 2 quality GKs, and Fergie at ManU did it a few years ago, as well as Pulis when he was at Stoke.

 

Or possibly if one is exceptional? Seem to remember Shilts was constantly marshalling the whole defence with shouts of TIGHT, AWAY, TIME etc. He never shut up. I've never heard another keeper do that. He was more like a keeper and defensive coach in one. I sure it would have made a big difference when he wasn't playing, even if he didn't make a save.

[scotty]

Or possibly if one is exceptional? Seem to remember Shilts was constantly marshalling the whole defence with shouts of TIGHT, AWAY, TIME etc. He never shut up. I've never heard another keeper do that. He was more like a keeper and defensive coach in one. I sure it would have made a big difference when he wasn't playing, even if he didn't make a save.

 

I remember as a young kid hearing Eric Martin from behind the Wilton goal giving instructions to the outfield players. "F*cking come on you f*ckers up the f*cking back, f*cking well get f*cking.... "

 

Ah, the technical instructions were so much more precise in those days.

[The9]

Or possibly if one is exceptional? Seem to remember Shilts was constantly marshalling the whole defence with shouts of TIGHT, AWAY, TIME etc. He never shut up. I've never heard another keeper do that. He was more like a keeper and defensive coach in one. I sure it would have made a big difference when he wasn't playing, even if he didn't make a save.

 

I've always thought goalkeepers should be the ones organising the defence, they can see everything, even the centre backs don't always know what's happening behind them, especially when the ball's out wide.

 

Maybe it's just me that never shut up when I was doing a stint in goal then.

[fez]

Oh dear, according to the African Football site, Mane is hurt.

 

"Sadio Mane could miss Senegal’s opening 2018 World Cup qualifier, with coach Aliou Cissé sweating over the fitness of the Southampton striker. The Lions of Teranga will face Madagascar in Antananarivo in the first leg of their qualifying tie on Friday and Mane is a major doubt after sustaining an ankle injury in Paris."

 

http://africanfootball.com//news/584661/Senegal-star-Mane-a-doubt-for-Madagascar?

[VectisSaint]

Oh dear, according to the African Football site, Mane is hurt.

 

"Sadio Mane could miss Senegal’s opening 2018 World Cup qualifier, with coach Aliou Cissé sweating over the fitness of the Southampton striker. The Lions of Teranga will face Madagascar in Antananarivo in the first leg of their qualifying tie on Friday and Mane is a major doubt after sustaining an ankle injury in Paris."

 

http://africanfootball.com//news/584661/Senegal-star-Mane-a-doubt-for-Madagascar?

What was he doing in Paris?

[fez]

What was he doing in Paris?

 

Presumably they assembled and trained in Paris before flying out to Africa. Remember that Senegal is a former French colony

[mrfahaji]

Stekelenberg is at the same level as Foster. It depends on both of them who plays match day. At the moment it's Stek for obvious reasons and rightly so. Foster may have to take a back seat for most of this season as he rehabilitates.

 

So the gist of your post is "Stekelenburg is playing because Forster is injured".