Mario Lemina - Official: Signs for Nice

[Saint Garrett]

52 minutes ago, Clapham Saint said:

 

You are correct that if his value is £6.2m and he left now then we would show a cost of £6.2m (plus whatever fees), and so would need to sell for at least that much to avoid showing a loss on the transaction in this year's accounts.  

However, I wouldn't get too hung up on the amortisation value.  It is a short term accounting entry and makes no difference to the medium term profit/loss or cash.  Whatever value his contract has in the balance sheet will be written down to zero when he leaves, whether that be in 2 years on a free or being sold, and this can't be avoided.

 

By way of example:

If we were to sell him for £1m now, then (ignoring agents fees and loyalty payments for simplicity), we would show a loss of £5.2m on the transaction in this year's accounts.

If we keep him to the end of his contract then we show an amortisation cost of £3.1m this year and an amortisation cost of £3.1m next year = total cost £6.2m.

We'd also have the cost of whatever his wages are if he does not end up out on loan.

When evaluating what we  "need to sell for" the key number isn't the profit or loss in this year (£5.2m loss in this example), but the total cash flow over the course of the contract.  In this example we're £1m plus his wages (£6.2m - £5.2m), better off by taking the £1m now despite the fact that it would increase costs in this year's accounts by £2.1m (£5.2m - £3.1m).

You can make the example more complicated by adding in figures for wages, loan fees, agents fees and assigning a value that we would "gain" from any games which he actually were to actually play for us before he leaves - but the principle that the amortisation value isn't something to get hung up on stays the same.

 

I hope that makes sense....

 

 

Yup - exactly this, however this also drives certain business decisions, depending on FFP and profit (loss) over a certain period.

I remember seeing an article about how the Pjanic / Artur swap deal was done in a way that meant both Barcelona and Juventus could show a profit on sale of acquisition.

Kind of irrelevant for us with Lemina due to the "small" figures involved.

[SuperSAINT]

£2m loan fee according to this: 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8668407/Fulham-closing-Southampton-double-deal-Harrison-Reed-Mario-Lemina.html

[S-Clarke]

53 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

£2m loan fee according to this: 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8668407/Fulham-closing-Southampton-double-deal-Harrison-Reed-Mario-Lemina.html

Decent, so potentially something around 10-12m from Fulham then in the next couple of days.

Just Hoedt and Carrillo to go....we could get to £20m!

[SuperSAINT]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

Decent, so potentially something around 10-12m from Fulham then in the next couple of days.

Just Hoedt and Carrillo to go....we could get to £20m!

Hoedster supposedly popped back to Belgium the other day so might be something in that.

Unlike Fulham / Lemina, I can't imagine any of their teams can afford his wages...

[SuperSAINT]

 

[Toadhall Saint]

11 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

 

What’s the betting he doesn’t make 20 appearances 😉

[S-Clarke]

Absolute pocket change really, that obligation fee. Only thing which will help us here is the lack of his wage.

[stevy777_x]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

Absolute pocket change really, that obligation fee. Only thing which will help us here is the lack of his wage.

God that is s low fee.

 

[Matthew Le God]

7 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Absolute pocket change really, that obligation fee. Only thing which will help us here is the lack of his wage.

€8m from Fulham and say €2m from the loan last season = €10m for a player we don't want and managed to get 46 games out of. Sure it is a loss on what Saints paid for him, but it isn't pocket change.

[Lighthouse]

€10m for a player I’d quite happily see walk out on a free? I’ll take that.

[suewhistle]

20 appearances! 🙂

[The Kraken]

Could go either way. If Lemina finally pulls himself together then Fulham could get an absolute bargain. Perhaps more likely is that he’ll continue as before with us, just about get through 20 appearances and have his mix of looking really good together with looking like he can’t be arsed. Either way, worth the gamble for Fulham.

[VectisSaint]

2 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

What’s the betting he doesn’t make 20 appearances 😉

More to the point, what's the betting Fulham get relegated. Must be the hottest favourites to go down next season. 

[SuperSAINT]

2 hours ago, suewhistle said:

20 appearances! 🙂

#LeminaAppearanceCountdownWatch

[itchen]

I was working in Italy with some Juventus fans when we signed him. They seemed to think that, very occasionally, he was a good player but he was not consistent. Seems they were right. 

[suewhistle]

1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said:

#LeminaAppearanceCountdownWatch

It will no doubt happen. I'll just wait for MLG, or QuebecSaint.. 🙂

[darren2]

There's no way he'll be fit for 20 matches!

[Lighthouse]

I’ll be interested to see the Fulham views on him over the season. Hoping he’s a success, just so we can trigger that clause.

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, darren2 said:

There's no way he'll be fit for 20 matches!

He has played 20 or more league games for the past 3 seasons.

Edited 30 August, 2020 by Matthew Le God

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

I’ll be interested to see the Fulham views on him over the season. Hoping he’s a success, just so we can trigger that clause.

It'll require Fulham staying up and that'll be the issue as I think they'll struggle.

[SuperSAINT]

 

 

[krissyboy31]

20 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

It'll require Fulham staying up and that'll be the issue as I think they'll struggle.

I agree. Think we'll still be lumbered with him next season because I can't see Fulham staying up. 

[Chez]

is the £2 million a fee on top of paying his wages or what Fulham are paying us, that would cover some or all of his wages? 

[Saint_clark]

Well that's given me a reason to cheer for Fulham. 

Question - let's say the scenario occurs where they are obligated to buy him. Is he then obligated to agree terms or can he refuse? Surely they wouldn't have agreed terms now, as he could have a storming season that would be of benefit in negotiations next summer? 

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

We play Fulham at St Marys in our third to last fixture on May 12. If Fulham are needing points to stay up (and assuming Saints have nothing to play for at that stage) who would tempted to drop some hints for Ralph to give them a chance to beat us?!!! 🤪 LOL

[Chez]

20 minutes ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

We play Fulham at St Marys in our third to last fixture on May 12. If Fulham are needing points to stay up (and assuming Saints have nothing to play for at that stage) who would tempted to drop some hints for Ralph to give them a chance to beat us?!!! 🤪 LOL

interesting that we might potentially be financially better off losing that game.  

[Shance]

Gutted Lemina isn’t a permanent. 

[Danbert]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

interesting that we might potentially be financially better off losing that game.  

Indeed, a clause like that doesn't do much for the integrity of the competition

[Lighthouse]

35 minutes ago, Shance said:

Gutted Lemina isn’t a permanent. 

Even if it’s not, we’ve only got a year left to worry about him after that.

[skintsaint]

Well good luck to him, can only imagine they are covering the majority of his wages an if he does well - even if Fulham go down - we might be able to sell him next summer. Otherwise if he plops then another loan out to Turkey/Greece for him I'd guess.

[Shroppie]

I guess he'll have another shot at impressing and getting a big move, but as soon as that seems unlikely the apathy and mysterious injuries will kick in. Unless he somehow becomes a cult hero at Fulham I can't see him wanting to stay.

[suewhistle]

If he's a big city boy he may want to stay in The Smoke.

[Charlie Wayman]

Let's not judge him too harshly, if he really blossoms at Fulham in the PL he will still be our player. What's not to like. 

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Let's not judge him too harshly, if he really blossoms at Fulham in the PL he will still be our player. What's not to like. 

If he really blossoms at Fulham, they will probably stay up, at which point he's there's by default as per the agreement for £5m!

He won't though, so it's fine!

[CamSaint]

From Lemina's perspective, it is his best chance of securing another lucrative contract. Play well, make himself 'undroppable' and help keep them up and he gets a contract at Fulham. Even if they offered him a 3 year contract then it would be 2 years more on PL-level money than he'll get at Saints. Blow it and he'll go out on loan somewhere in Europe for the final year of his contract with Saints and after that he'll have to take the best that's on offer wherever he can - but it is very unlikely to be PL-level money. He clearly has no future at Saints - Ralph at least tried to re-integrate the skills Boufal has to offer into the squad, but Lemina has not been considered. I assume that Saints wouldn't be able to overturn the 'obligation to buy' even if Lemina did have a storming season with Fulham.

 

[Saint Keef]

OK - let's start the predictions. How many starts will he make for Fulham? Not including substitute appearances. My guess - 14 appearances max. Fulham will either realise he's a waster or he'll pick up a mysterious injury.  Nearest guess wins a prize of a holiday for two to.........well nowhere at the moment due to Covid. 

I don't get to every Saints game, but I did get to see him "live" on several occasions and I honestly couldn't see what all the fuss was about him. Very frustrating player and lazy. Poor attitude. That said, the managers at the time, and style of football could hardly be described as motivational. It would have been interesting to see how he played under a manager like Ralph, not that he struck me as the sort to fit into Ralph's high press system. Obviously Ralph felt the same way.

[pimpin4rizeal]

Think lemina gets a bit too much unfair bashing on here of late.

case of player not playing suddenly becoming useless by the looks of it in most posters eyes.. before ralph exiled him (and lemina kind of burned his bridges) many posters on here regarded him as our best player and certainly best midfielder.

yes he had off games but was pretty decent and not really any worse then hoj in my opinion.

fulham may have got themselves a absolute steal 

[Saint Garrett]

14 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Think lemina gets a bit too much unfair bashing on here of late.

case of player not playing suddenly becoming useless by the looks of it in most posters eyes.. before ralph exiled him (and lemina kind of burned his bridges) many posters on here regarded him as our best player and certainly best midfielder.

yes he had off games but was pretty decent and not really any worse then hoj in my opinion.

fulham may have got themselves a absolute steal 

He's a talent for sure, but never applies that talent, he's probabaly had 4 good games for us...

West Brom away

Palace away

Man Utd home

Probably another I've missed. 

He deserves abuse for playing in an FA Cup Semi Final and wandering about like it was a pre-season friendly. Disgrace of a performance.

[lambtiss]

12 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

He's a talent for sure, but never applies that talent, he's probabaly had 4 good games for us...

West Brom away

Palace away

Man Utd home

Probably another I've missed. 

He deserves abuse for playing in an FA Cup Semi Final and wandering about like it was a pre-season friendly. Disgrace of a performance.

I agree. Brilliant when he wants to play (played Pogba off the pitch) but might as well not be on the pitch when not bothered (which is most of the time).

[SuperSAINT]

Starts tonight for Fulham.

[John Boy Saint]

2 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

Starts tonight for Fulham.

lasted 63 minutes............that'll be 2 weeks recovery

[Saint Garrett]

How'd he get on?

 

[Turkish]

36 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

How'd he get on?

 

From one of their MBs.

Mario Lemina – 6.
Solid debut. Touched the ball more than any other player at the base of midfield up to his subbing around the hour mark. Happier being the deeper of the two at the base of midfield. Decent showing before being subbed for TC.

 

 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

From one of their MBs.

Mario Lemina – 6.
Solid debut. Touched the ball more than any other player at the base of midfield up to his subbing around the hour mark. Happier being the deeper of the two at the base of midfield. Decent showing before being subbed for TC.

 

 

I find it weird that we have allowed Lemina and Reed to leave to a prem rival and haven't replaced either of them yet. I woild suggest that Fulham currently have more options in cm than us now largely because they have two of our players. 

[Turkish]

54 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I find it weird that we have allowed Lemina and Reed to leave to a prem rival and haven't replaced either of them yet. I woild suggest that Fulham currently have more options in cm than us now largely because they have two of our players. 

I find it weird how people are bleating on that we have weakened the squad because we've let two players go who haven't played a game for us for over a year, one of them not for 3 years. Of course we need to replace Hojbjerg, that's obvious but not sure how we've weakened last years squad by selling players who weren't here last year anyway. 

Edited 17 September, 2020 by Turkish

[hypochondriac]

49 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I find it weird how people are bleating on that we have weakened the squad because we've let two players go who haven't played a game for us for over a year, one of them not for 3 years. Of course we need to replace Hojbjerg, that's obvious but not sure how we've weakened last years squad by selling players who weren't here last year anyway. 

I don't think we have weakened last years squad by letting Lemina and Reed go. My point is that we were fortunate that we got through last year with the limited cm options that we had given that both of the aforementioned were out on loan. I think our transfer business often leaves the impression that we are looking way down our list after missing out on many of our first choices and we leave ourselves very light in certain areas (cb when we sold vvd for example). The guff about wanting to work with a small squad is pretty much just spin to cover the fact that we can't afford much. 

[Lighthouse]

20 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I don't think we have weakened last years squad by letting Lemina and Reed go. My point is that we were fortunate that we got through last year with the limited cm options that we had given that both of the aforementioned were out on loan. I think our transfer business often leaves the impression that we are looking way down our list after missing out on many of our first choices and we leave ourselves very light in certain areas (cb when we sold vvd for example). The guff about wanting to work with a small squad is pretty much just spin to cover the fact that we can't afford much. 

Going back to your previous post, there’s nothing weird about any of it. We know we got through last season with a thin squad and the reasons for it. Nothing is going to change for at least the next couple of seasons until we cut the wage bill down and we will continue to try and survive in this league at minimal outlay.

[Turkish]

19 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Going back to your previous post, there’s nothing weird about any of it. We know we got through last season with a thin squad and the reasons for it. Nothing is going to change for at least the next couple of seasons until we cut the wage bill down and we will continue to try and survive in this league at minimal outlay.

and for that to happen we need to shift the deadwood like Reed, Lemina, Boufal, now we are people are moaning we are weakening the squad, it's hilarious. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

and for that to happen we need to shift the deadwood like Reed, Lemina, Boufal, now we are people are moaning we are weakening the squad, it's hilarious. 

Again, I don't think selling Reed and Lemina to Fulham is weakening the squad. I do think it's reducing our current potential options for this season whilst strengthening a rival though. That obviously changes if we do bring in the required midfield strengthening. 

[gammon cheeks]

Lemina Reed and Boufal would have been a far better option on the bench than what we had last night !