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The Sunday Times - Southampton put up for sale at £250m

The Odd Guy

By The Odd Guy,
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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted (edited)

It seems like by not doing anything Goa has seduced some people. "Well, he's not ruined us and he's not a bellend like the West Ham guys, so he's decent."

The fact is, he brings nothing positive. He brings nothing at all. So, yeah, that's ok for a year or two if you have a decent manager but, let's face it, it's no kind of platform at all. The main difference between last season and the previous was Danny Ings and a more confident coach. That's transitory.

You want a long term platform in the PL, you need meaningful resources. Some teams have it. We do not. Because of that, we will generally be struggling and a bad run of form away from relegation. 

Needing a Mr. Moneybags is distasteful. But it's the PL reality now.

Do I expect Goa to throw money down the drain? No, because he can't. He hasn't got it. Do I think we have the right to demand that of anyone? No, it's just a question of luck.

But the clear reality is that he brings nothing to the table and the fanfare over his takeover was complete bull. You could get behind a financially impotent owner if they had something interesting to say; some kind of plan; a vision that was believable and was galvanising. But he has nothing. As others have said, he just lets other people do the work. But that's not a virtue when ownership is one of the most important factors in success now. If your dad runs off, you don't say, "Well he let my mum get on with it. At least he didn't fiddle with me. He's neutral at worst."

I would also like to know why we borrowed £80m this summer - way more than usual. Obviously Covid will have had some impact but not an impact of the size that requires that much more borrowing than normal.

Edited by benjii
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Saint Billy

Saint Billy

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, benjii said:

It seems like by not doing anything Goa has seduced some people. "Well, he's not ruined us and he's not a bellend like the West Ham guys, so he's decent."

The fact is, he brings nothing positive. He brings nothing at all. So, yeah, that's ok for a year or two if you have a decent manager but, let's face it, it's no kind of platform at all. The main difference between last season and the previous was Danny Ings and a more confident coach. That's transitory.

You want a long term platform in the PL, you need meaningful resources. Some teams have it. We do not. Because of that, we will generally be struggling and a bad run of form away from relegation. 

Needing a Mr. Moneybags is distasteful. But it's the PL reality now.

Do I expect Goa to throw money down the drain? No, because he can't. He hasn't got it. Do I think we have the right to demand that of anyone? No, it's just a question of luck.

But the clear reality is that he brings nothing to the table and the fanfare over his takeover was complete bull. You could get behind a financially impotent owner if they had something interesting to say; some kind of plan; a vision that was believable and was galvanising. But he has nothing. As others have said, he just let's other people do the work. But that's not a virtue when ownership is one of the most important factors in success now. If your dad runs off, you don't say, "Well he let my mum get on with it. At least he didn't fiddle with me. He's neutral at worst."

I would also like to know why we borrowed £80m this summer - way more than usual. Obviously Covid will have had some impact but not an impact of the size that requires that much more borrowing than normal.

Good Post. 

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Barsiem

Barsiem

Posted
Posted

I don't think he's seduced anybody, and I also think it's ridiculous to say he's brought nothing. When we appointed hassenhuttl, I recall people close to him saying we had no chance of appointing him, yet somehow we convinced him to join us. Semmens as well has been a big improvement over Kruger.  We're slowly getting rid of the deadwood and improving the squad, all under Gao's stewardship

There is a real tendancy on here to attribute everything bad to an individual, and not give any credit for any good. Reed is regularly slated on here for carillo et all, but if someone mentions vvd or mane etc it always absolutely nothing to do with him. This kind of attitude frankly defies logic.

No Saint is jumping for joy because Gao is in charge. Every saints fan would like an abramovic or Thai king to take us over, but that isn't what this guy mooted in the papers is. We have a sensible owner who isn't rinsing the club or jeopardising our future, and that'll do until we get a better alternative. We've seen what's happened when cowboys and chancers have been in charge of a football club with our friends down the road

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Barsiem said:

I don't think he's seduced anybody, and I also think it's ridiculous to say he's brought nothing. When we appointed hassenhuttl, I recall people close to him saying we had no chance of appointing him, yet somehow we convinced him to join us. Semmens as well has been a big improvement over Kruger.  We're slowly getting rid of the deadwood and improving the squad, all under Gao's stewardship

There is a real tendancy on here to attribute everything bad to an individual, and not give any credit for any good. Reed is regularly slated on here for carillo et all, but if someone mentions vvd or mane etc it always absolutely nothing to do with him. This kind of attitude frankly defies logic.

No Saint is jumping for joy because Gao is in charge. Every saints fan would like an abramovic or Thai king to take us over, but that isn't what this guy mooted in the papers is. We have a sensible owner who isn't rinsing the club or jeopardising our future, and that'll do until we get a better alternative. We've seen what's happened when cowboys and chancers have been in charge of a football club with our friends down the road

Well, do we know he isn't one of those? We have no idea.

Better to keep questioning than to say "that'll do".

Edited by benjii
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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, benjii said:

Not jeopardising the future? We just borrowed £80m.

Not entirely sure what that is for, but quite a few clubs have used a form of loans during this 'coronavirus' period. Possibly leveraged against future TV income, not sure. We've got to plan in the eventuality that stadium numbers will still be through the floor all season, that's a key income for any club. I imagine that loan is just helping us cover that issue, amongst many others.

It's not great, no, but we don't have a very engaged owner so it's prob our only option.

Edited by S-Clarke
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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Not entirely sure what that is for, but quite a few clubs have used a form of loans during this 'coronavirus' period. Possibly leveraged against future TV income, not sure. We've got to plan in the eventuality that stadium numbers will still be through the floor all season, that's a key income for any club. I imagine that loan is just helping us cover that issue, amongst many others.

It's not great, no, but we don't have a very engaged owner so it's prob our only option.

I edited the post because we just don't know but it's a lot more than we usually borrow and gate receipts are not a massive part of our revenue. 

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Barsiem

Barsiem

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Posted
4 minutes ago, benjii said:

Well, do we know he isn't one of those? We have no idea.

Better to keep questioning than to say "that'll do".

You've already changed your point but re the £80m, I cannot find anything in the news about it so will have to take your word for it, but spurs borrowed £175m and are considerably bigger than us https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11675/12000522/coronavirus-tottenham-borrow-175m-to-cover-costs-incurred-due-to-pandemic

Quite happy to keep questioning, but I've seen nothing to suggest he's been bad for saints (albeit he does have a questionable background) and really don't understand why he think he's so terrible. He doesn't engage with us, which I would like him to do as well, but given how we all hated it whenever Kruger opened his mouth maybe that's for the best.  

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, benjii said:

I edited the post because we just don't know but it's a lot more than we usually borrow and gate receipts are not a massive part of our revenue. 

Fair enough. Yeah, agreed our match day revenue is a small income compared to our PL TV money, but it would still need to be covered in some way.

That 80m clearly wasn't a loan to aid us in the transfer market anyway!! Agree, it's certainly not good to just say you're happy with the status quo. There's a lot wrong with his ownership IMO, and I'll always stand by that and will be very pleased to see the back of him.

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benjii

benjii

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Barsiem said:

You've already changed your point but re the £80m, I cannot find anything in the news about it so will have to take your word for it, but spurs borrowed £175m and are considerably bigger than us https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11675/12000522/coronavirus-tottenham-borrow-175m-to-cover-costs-incurred-due-to-pandemic

Quite happy to keep questioning, but I've seen nothing to suggest he's been bad for saints (albeit he does have a questionable background) and really don't understand why he think he's so terrible. He doesn't engage with us, which I would like him to do as well, but given how we all hated it whenever Kruger opened his mouth maybe that's for the best.  

I can certainly agree re Kruger!

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Backrow91

Backrow91

Posted
Posted

Tyre kicker?   Could be.  Remember the days of Pinnacle having a period of “exclusivity” look how that turned out........nobody on the forum seems to be ITK (or if they are.....not in a position to comment) What games are being played out behind the scenes? Whatever happens let’s hope it is for the good of the club. 

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, saint lard said:

Adam Blackmore states on his twitter that this rumour this week is BS. He has been told. 
but believes we will be sold in the ‘coming months’
hardly a revelation....and how he knows. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Like I said I was told mid October so it wouldn't surprise me. No idea who we are talking to but we are in discussions. 

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beatlesaint

beatlesaint

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, saint lard said:

Adam Blackmore states on his twitter that this rumour this week is BS. He has been told. 
but believes we will be sold in the ‘coming months’
hardly a revelation....and how he knows. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Thats good to hear. So whilst that rumour is doing the rounds and grabbing attention hopefully the real work towards getting a new owner is progressing smoothly under the radar.

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kwsaint

kwsaint

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22 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I respect your views and your opinions, I don't want to throw this into a 2-way either. All I will say is that I'm ambitious about my football club, I think there's potential in here to do well and I've always felt that. Investment is part of it, of course, but having a drive from the top is equally as important - it just feels like we're treading water at the mo. Kat said she'd sold us to take us to the next level, I see no evidence of that.

Markus put significant money into this club to bring us back. We spent a fortune in L1 (on wages and transfer fee's) and he spent a fortune building the new training facilities etc, no...he didn't shout loud, but it was clear to see his input. With Gao, I can't see his input and I haven't from day one. I can't be the only one bothered by that?

Anyway, as I said - I respect your views, we agree to disagree on this subject and we'll see how the future pans out!

It's called investment.  ML bought the club for around £14 million, invested a significant sum when we were in L1/Championship.  Then Kat sold up for £200million once we were in the premier league.  The Liebherrs did well out of Saints - and so did we as we got back to the premier league.  Not sure how Gao putting money into the club would help Gao - certainly wouldnt increase the clubs value much.  At least he is not taking money out of the club (as far as I am aware) and the club is reasonably well run now after the debacle of Puel/MP/Hughes/Reed etc.  Gao is clearly not interested in the club but at least it is being left alone.  The last thing we want is for someone to come in and asset strip the club (Blackpool/Coventry) and we don't have the revenue to support a leveraged sale as the Glasers got away with at United.

We are still recovering financially from 2016-2019 - lots of deadwood we are paying massive salaries to.  I would be happy for us to survive in the premier league for the next couple of years, by which time the likes of Hoedt, Carillo, Lemina etc will be off the books and we should be in a better place financially to kick on.  And at least the football is generally enjoyable now |yesterday excepted) 

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stevy777_x

stevy777_x

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1 hour ago, kwsaint said:

It's called investment.  ML bought the club for around £14 million, invested a significant sum when we were in L1/Championship.  Then Kat sold up for £200million once we were in the premier league.  The Liebherrs did well out of Saints - and so did we as we got back to the premier league.  Not sure how Gao putting money into the club would help Gao - certainly wouldnt increase the clubs value much.  At least he is not taking money out of the club (as far as I am aware) and the club is reasonably well run now after the debacle of Puel/MP/Hughes/Reed etc.  Gao is clearly not interested in the club but at least it is being left alone.  The last thing we want is for someone to come in and asset strip the club (Blackpool/Coventry) and we don't have the revenue to support a leveraged sale as the Glasers got away with at United.

We are still recovering financially from 2016-2019 - lots of deadwood we are paying massive salaries to.  I would be happy for us to survive in the premier league for the next couple of years, by which time the likes of Hoedt, Carillo, Lemina etc will be off the books and we should be in a better place financially to kick on.  And at least the football is generally enjoyable now |yesterday excepted) 

Getting rid of players like Carillo Lemina and Hoedt might help us from a wage perspective but that s only going to help us buy one player as to buy a player you need to pay a transfer fee. We will hardly get transfer fees for them so the saved wages will have to cover the transfer fee of the additional player.

It is still going to be a one in one out policy if we continue with Gao.

selling the deqdwood is not gonna change that.

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tajjuk

tajjuk

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Posted

We are basically in the middle, shows the vast different levels of success really, Liverpool and Leicester doing well on not a lot of owner financing (IIRC Henry's money has been invested in the stadium and training ground) Everton, Villa and Fulham doing very little with a lot of investment.

I mean the Everton owner has thrown £300 million into the club over 5 years and they have gone backwards and still have an old outdated stadium. I wonder how long he will last if he doesn't start seeing a return on all this money he puts in?

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benjii

benjii

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1 hour ago, tajjuk said:

We are basically in the middle, shows the vast different levels of success really, Liverpool and Leicester doing well on not a lot of owner financing (IIRC Henry's money has been invested in the stadium and training ground) Everton, Villa and Fulham doing very little with a lot of investment.

I mean the Everton owner has thrown £300 million into the club over 5 years and they have gone backwards and still have an old outdated stadium. I wonder how long he will last if he doesn't start seeing a return on all this money he puts in?

Better ask Usmanov!

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Convict Colony

Convict Colony

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11 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

That's my general rule of thumb on take-overs -- Don't trust the people giving it large in the press.

Yeah I truly dont understand the press route unless they are trying to lower the price via pressure otherwise you have the finances or you dont and the due diligence has been done.

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Turkish

Turkish

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16 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

That's my general rule of thumb on take-overs -- Don't trust the people giving it large in the press.

When we were for sale before around the run up to administration the club put out a lot of fake stories, the staff we warned about this and not to speak to anyone about the speculation. 

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

When we were for sale before around the run up to administration the club put out a lot of fake stories, the staff we warned about this and not to speak to anyone about the speculation. 

Marc Jackson & Pinnacle were the kind of peeps I was referring too.

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Badger

Badger

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Posted
2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Marc Jackson was a joke, he is a photocopier salesman, he was a sales guy at the first ever job i had. 

Wasn't Jackson linked with Barry the Briefcase ?

Pinnacle of course had the full financial backing of Micky Fialka (or similar).

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

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13 minutes ago, Badger said:

Wasn't Jackson linked with Barry the Briefcase ?

Pinnacle of course had the full financial backing of Micky Fialka (or similar).

 

2 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

With MLT as Chairman....

Yeah!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/4469686.amp/

Pinnacle still maintain that Michael Fialka, and the supposed people behind him, HAD the money to complete a deal and fund the club into the future.

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saint1977

saint1977

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Duncan Castles says a potential takeover of Southampton is progressing but is 'complicated', with the Premier League now assessing the possible owners.

From 53:00...

https://www.spreaker.com/user/12250300/man-utd-ask-for-dembele

Thanks MLG, been clear something is afoot. Hopefully not De Grosa but we will have to see what actually appears on the table. FAPP especially in the COVID era needs to be far stronger, Gao should clearly have been blocked from buying SFC. No funds and apparent question marks in China. The PL needs to get it right this time. Hard to get much worse than Gao but frankly SFC will find a way. 

Edited by saint1977
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Dusic

Dusic

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Duncan Castles says a potential takeover of Southampton is progressing but is 'complicated', with the Premier League now assessing the possible owners.

From 53:00...

https://www.spreaker.com/user/12250300/man-utd-ask-for-dembele

Well there is zero chance anything gets done in time to impact the window seeing as there are only two weeks to go, so that bit is a load of bollocks.

If the finance is complicated, and Dan Sheldon said multiple sources had doubts as to whether Da Grossa actually was able to pull it together, then its not a great start to any talks.

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Wurzel

Wurzel

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Posted
23 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Duncan Castles says a potential takeover of Southampton is progressing but is 'complicated', with the Premier League now assessing the possible owners.

From 53:00...

https://www.spreaker.com/user/12250300/man-utd-ask-for-dembele

Complicated? Of course it's complicated. It's the Southampton Way. We don't do things simple.

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Saint J 77

Saint J 77

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, saint1977 said:

Thanks MLG, been clear something is afoot. Hopefully not De Grosa but we will have to see what actually appears on the table. FAPP especially in the COVID era needs to be far stronger, Gao should clearly have been blocked from buying SFC. No funds and apparent question marks in China. The PL needs to get it right this time. Hard to get much worse than Gao but frankly SFC will find a way. 

"Hopefully not De Grosa" 

I was really hoping it was not him either as his credentials don't sound great for our long term future.  https://www.spreaker.com/user/12250300/man-utd-ask-for-dembele 

The above link, if correct, confirms it is his bid that is being considered by the premier league so that is very depressing. 

Edited by Saint J 77
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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
On 21/09/2020 at 19:21, scousesaint84 said:

Didnt Adam Blackmore discredit the DaGrosa rumour as just that? Said there wasn't any thruth in those rumours but he did expect something to happen down the line

Blackmore would have received his info from

someone within the club, who won’t have any say or idea of who Gao is selling to. 
 

although, that being said, the name I’ve been told wasn’t DaGrosa. It was another American, one who owns a NFL team... but that’s was a few months back now, and like Blackmore, they aren’t close enough to Gao to know what’s going on. 

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saint lard

saint lard

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, SKD said:

Blackmore would have received his info from

someone within the club, who won’t have any say or idea of who Gao is selling to. 
 

although, that being said, the name I’ve been told wasn’t DaGrosa. It was another American, one who owns a NFL team... but that’s was a few months back now, and like Blackmore, they aren’t close enough to Gao to know what’s going on. 

Robert Kraft. 
 

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, scousesaint84 said:

Could the 'complications' be because of Gao owning 80% and Kat owning 20%? Maybe if the proposed owners want 100% they need to make 2 seperate offers to the 2 current owners?

Clutching at straws.........

Complications likely are likely how DaGrosa is trying to fund the deal.  

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