Newcastle to bid for JWP in Jan?

[Hodgey]

I don’t think this is a serious story - but I’m amazed anyone would think this is a good idea. Nothing so far this season suggests safety is assured, we desperately lack goals yet should sell one of our top scorers ?, not only that but sell him to a relegation rival ?. Remind me of the financial risk in going down.. and for a club with well publicised financial issues.

I’ve never understood the negativity towards JWP on here, the accusations seem to be that he’s just a set piece specialist (who apparently is no good at that anymore) who slowly passes the ball sideways and is a bottler - if you look at his all round stats that simply isn’t true. If you actually watch him when he plays it isn’t true. He is one of our few top class performers.

Finally what are we going to do with the hypothetical £50m we get in January ?. Who is going to be available and want to come ?.  What happens when Ron or Diallo are injured / suspended ?

selling JWP is a bad idea, selling him in January to a rival would be incompetence . Thankfully I don’t think our board are.
 

[skintsaint]

6 minutes ago, Hodgey said:

selling him in January to a rival would be incompetence .

Yeah I agree on that part.

[TWar]

JWP is so underrated on here. Excellent player. If Newcastle got him it would be a massive display of intent. They likely won't though as Football Insider make up things and are hopeless.

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Hodgey said:

I don’t think this is a serious story - but I’m amazed anyone would think this is a good idea. Nothing so far this season suggests safety is assured, we desperately lack goals yet should sell one of our top scorers ?, not only that but sell him to a relegation rival ?. Remind me of the financial risk in going down.. and for a club with well publicised financial issues.

I’ve never understood the negativity towards JWP on here, the accusations seem to be that he’s just a set piece specialist (who apparently is no good at that anymore) who slowly passes the ball sideways and is a bottler - if you look at his all round stats that simply isn’t true. If you actually watch him when he plays it isn’t true. He is one of our few top class performers.

Finally what are we going to do with the hypothetical £50m we get in January ?. Who is going to be available and want to come ?.  What happens when Ron or Diallo are injured / suspended ?

selling JWP is a bad idea, selling him in January to a rival would be incompetence . Thankfully I don’t think our board are.
 

You'll want to be careful bringing facts into this conversation. Riles up those who don't think he's manly enough. 

[MarkSFC]

On 28/10/2021 at 09:00, Matthew Le God said:

It is not according to the Echo. They have rehashed an article from Football Insider by Wayne Veysey, who is an appalling 'journalist' who makes up every story.

Your comment is potentially libelist. Can you prove he "makes up every story". 

[Dellman]

Half the things on this site are potentially libel or slander, I suppose it helps people get rid of a load of hate

[TWar]

1 hour ago, MarkSFC said:

Your comment is potentially libelist. Can you prove he "makes up every story". 

Traditionally speaking, the burden of proof is on the Journalist to prove they haven't made the story up rather than the consumer to prove they have.

As a consumer, you are perfectly within your rights to suspect a story (or multiple) are made up. It doesn't qualify as libel unless Versey can:

A) Prove that it was infact not made up

B) Versey can prove MLG caused material harm to him, ie meaningful sales were lost due to MLGs comment

I suspect this doesn't pass those two thresholds and most would just consider it criticism of a product by a consumer.

EDIT! Don't listen to me, discussed this with legally trained partner. It could, in fact, be libel. The law is silly. There is now precedent for suing people for tweets accusing journos of not knowing what they are on about. I assume it's the same for football forum posts! 

Morally speaking though, I think MLG has every right to call someone out for making things up if they can't prove credibility but when was the last time the law operated along moral lines?!

Edited 29 October, 2021 by TWar

[MarkSFC]

36 minutes ago, TWar said:

Traditionally speaking, the burden of proof is on the Journalist to prove they haven't made the story up rather than the consumer to prove they have.

As a consumer, you are perfectly within your rights to suspect a story (or multiple) are made up. It doesn't qualify as libel unless Versey can:

A) Prove that it was infact not made up

B) Versey can prove MLG caused material harm to him, ie meaningful sales were lost due to MLGs comment

I suspect this doesn't pass those two thresholds and most would just consider it criticism of a product by a consumer.

EDIT! Don't listen to me, discussed this with legally trained partner. It could, in fact, be libel. The law is silly. There is now precedent for suing people for tweets accusing journos of not knowing what they are on about. I assume it's the same for football forum posts! 

Morally speaking though, I think MLG has every right to call someone out for making things up if they can't prove credibility but when was the last time the law operated along moral lines?!

 It unless he can prove its is made up he is only doing what he is accusing the journalist of, making it up. 

In the post I quoted MLG wrote as a statement of fact rather than accusatory manner which would not be libelist.

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

 It unless he can prove its is made up he is only doing what he is accusing the journalist of, making it up. 

In the post I quoted MLG wrote as a statement of fact rather than accusatory manner which would not be libelist.

I mean, I guess, not speaking legally on the balance of probability it is probably made up. The guy posted so many stories, basically daily, and I have literally never seen one actually be accurate. Either he has the worst sources in the world or he is making them up whole cloth in my opinion (the "in my opinion" stops it being libel! What a work-around!)

Edited 29 October, 2021 by TWar

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

I mean, I guess, not speaking legally on the balance of probability it is probably made up. The guy posted so many stories, basically daily, and I have literally never seen one actually be accurate. Either he has the worst sources in the world or he is making them up whole cloth in my opinion (the "in my opinion" stops it being libel! What a work-around!)

In my 'humble' opinion does the same thing but adds a passive aggressive tone as well which is always handy  

[MarkSFC]

30 minutes ago, TWar said:

I mean, I guess, not speaking legally on the balance of probability it is probably made up. The guy posted so many stories, basically daily, and I have literally never seen one actually be accurate. Either he has the worst sources in the world or he is making them up whole cloth in my opinion (the "in my opinion" stops it being libel! What a work-around!)

And herein lies the one main issue we have in our world right now, mis-information that can be stated as fact with little or zero comeback or need to prove provenance and credibility. And what's more it can spread the world in literally seconds. Great for real news and facts but awful for the opposite. 

I suspect the truth of the matter for most "sports journalists" is thst they get hints from a variety of people and then word it in such a way that people who take everything at face value will pass it on as so called fact. 

That MLG appears to get wound up by these people is funny as he obviously chooses to read what they have to say, possibly to feed his thirst for rumour rather than fact🤣

 

Irony at it best, perhaps. 

Edited 29 October, 2021 by MarkSFC

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, MarkSFC said:

Your comment is potentially libelist. Can you prove he "makes up every story". 

He writes numerous stories.

I say they are bullshit as he provides no good evidence.

If he wants to take it further then the burden of proof is on him, not me. 

Edited 29 October, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

28 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He writes numerous stories.

I say they are bullshit as he provides no good evidence.

If he wants to take it further then the burden of proof is on him, not me. 

There's an easy answer: just stop reading it if it annoys you!

You need to be a little careful though, as you were accusing people of being wrong on the stadium thread and it turned out you were wrong. I know being pedantic is your thing though.

[egg]

32 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He writes numerous stories.

I say they are bullshit as he provides no good evidence.

If he wants to take it further then the burden of proof is on him, not me. 

Saying something must be bullshit because the evidence / source isn't detailed is a pretty daft thing to say. Journalists rarely reveal their sources, otherwise the source ceases to be a source. 

[CB Fry]

Fucking laughable that anyone thinks Veysey and football insider have "sources". Just a throw-enough-shit-at-the-wall website that hopes it can build its reputation on occasionally getting something right.

Its a shame the Echo is churning it up but local newspapers have fallen a long way in recent years.

[whelk]

I posted this after the takeover as a sort of  ‘next level’ signing they could make. With no substance other than from the top of my head. Rumours huh

[egg]

49 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Fucking laughable that anyone thinks Veysey and football insider have "sources". Just a throw-enough-shit-at-the-wall website that hopes it can build its reputation on occasionally getting something right.

Its a shame the Echo is churning it up but local newspapers have fallen a long way in recent years.

I know nothing about this bloke, but the suggestion that journalists should reveal their sources is daft. 

[Secret Site Agent]

They can have him for 

90m

 

Plus 20m after 10 games.

 

And they put in a good word with one of their wealthy friends or relations that we are a good investment and ripe for the purchasing.

 

[Ralph Fastenbüttl]

On 28/10/2021 at 09:11, Matthew Le God said:

I agree Turkish! It isn't sports journalism at the Echo any more, they simply rehash stories from other media publications. Surely they don't teach this on journalism degree courses!

I don't think uneducated journalists is the problem - it's more the inability of local news outlets to pay for original reporting. If you pay for a proper professional to get out there and talk to people, and to form the sorts of relationships that result in scoops in genuine reporting, you'll get good journalism. However, if you pay for someone to sit at a desk and scan RSS feeds, you won't. Unsurprisingly the latter is far cheaper, and with people being largely unwilling to pay for news anymore, this is where we end up. You've gotta make money if you want to pay a journalist.

Local news is virtually dead at this point.

Edited 29 October, 2021 by Ralph Fastenbüttl

[TWar]

12 minutes ago, Ralph Fastenbüttl said:

I don't think uneducated journalists is the problem - it's more the inability of local news outlets to pay for original reporting. If you pay for a proper professional to get out there and talk to people, and to form the sorts of relationships that result in scoops in genuine reporting, you'll get good journalism. However, if you pay for someone to sit at a desk and scan RSS feeds, you won't. Unsurprisingly the latter is far cheaper, and with people being largely unwilling to pay for news anymore, this is where we end up. You've gotta make money if you want to pay a journalist.

Local news is virtually dead at this point.

That and quantity. For some reason Echo/HampshireLive have a mad publishing schedule where they try to put out multiple stories a day at times, or atleast a few a week. Even if Ralph himself was writing for these papers and he knew literally everything that was going on there is no way you'd have enough content for that schedule unless you resorted to reporting what Romeu had for dinner or what Smallbones favourite colour is or whatever.

They need to fill pages, and one thing there will always be an infinite supply of is baseless rumours from nothing sources who are just trying to get clicks. It's juicy, it's abundant, and when it inevitably is shown to be fully untrue it doesn't effect the echo in the slightest as they reported it as "just a rumour". Would be nice if they put out one good article a week but I guess in the internet age that just isn't a profitable model.

Especially a shame as they both have good journos in Blackmore/Leach who break big news and have good analysis but it is diluted with nonsense reposted from absolute wind up merchants like Football Insider.

Edited 29 October, 2021 by TWar

[Ralph Fastenbüttl]

Just now, TWar said:

That and quantity. For some reason Echo/HampshireLive have a mad publishing schedule where they try to put out multiple stories a day at times, or atleast a few a week. Even if Ralph himself was writing these papers and he knew literally everything that was going on there is no way you'd have enough content for that schedule unless you resorted to reporting what Romeu had for dinner or what Smallbones favourite colour is or whatever.

They need to fill pages, and one thing there will always be an infinite supply of is baseless rumours from nothing sources who are just trying to get clicks. It's juicy, it's abundant, and when it inevitably is shown to be fully untrue it doesn't effect the echo in the slightest as they reported it as "just a rumour". Would be nice if they put out one good article a week but I guess in the internet age that just isn't a profitable model.

Indeed. Paying a word monkey £10 a piece to pump out endless stories to up your page views and maximise click revenue becomes quite appealing from a business perspective when paying a professional reporter a professional wage to write perhaps one professional story per day results in the same or fewer clicks. The whole advertiser local news model is completely broken. There's a reason why the best sports reporting (arguably) can be found on The Athletic.

[Rickman42]

Its pretty obvious that we extended JWP's contract to increase his market value, and with Newcastle very publicly coming into money, they will be forced to pay over-inflated prices for players over the next couple of years.

 

JWP is a legend at this club, but every player has a price. If they offer 50 million + then we have to accept. We can re-invest that money in a top keeper, a new striker and a midfielder. Diallo looks like he's coming along leaps and bounds and could naturally fill JWP's place in the coming seasons.

 

More importantly, with Forster and Long set to leave in the summer, it opens up a big wage gap for some new players. We just need the finances to make the moves

[nta786]

39 minutes ago, Ralph Fastenbüttl said:

Indeed. Paying a word monkey £10 a piece to pump out endless stories to up your page views and maximise click revenue becomes quite appealing from a business perspective when paying a professional reporter a professional wage to write perhaps one professional story per day results in the same or fewer clicks. The whole advertiser local news model is completely broken. There's a reason why the best sports reporting (arguably) can be found on The Athletic.

Agreed when we had Carl.

Dan's stuff in my opinion is little insight, rehashes what most Saints fan know and there is next to to none tactical or meaningful analysis.

Like we all know "Ralph has a squad to manage", didn't need 600 words to basically state the obvious.

I'm only paying a £1 a month and there are some decent reads on there tho.

[Minsk]

1 hour ago, Rickman42 said:

Its pretty obvious that we extended JWP's contract to increase his market value, and with Newcastle very publicly coming into money, they will be forced to pay over-inflated prices for players over the next couple of years.

 

JWP is a legend at this club, but every player has a price. If they offer 50 million + then we have to accept. We can re-invest that money in a top keeper, a new striker and a midfielder. Diallo looks like he's coming along leaps and bounds and could naturally fill JWP's place in the coming seasons.

 

More importantly, with Forster and Long set to leave in the summer, it opens up a big wage gap for some new players. We just need the finances to make the moves

£50m wouldn't buy his left foot, let alone his right.

No way should we sell our best player, and captain, to a clear rival in mid-season. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

29 minutes ago, Minsk said:

£50m wouldn't buy his left foot, let alone his right.

No way should we sell our best player, and captain, to a clear rival in mid-season. 

With the cash they have, sadly they won't be a rival for very much longer.

[Hodgey]

Also people thinking we will reinvest the whole amount in the squad - what’s that based on ?. Given we have a £75m debt to repay and can’t make ends meet outside of that - why do you think we would reinvest the whole amount ?. So let’s say it’s £50m - and we reinvest £30m - removing loyalty bonus / signing on / agent fees etc how are we going to upgrade 3 positions ??. 
Then the increased jeopardy of us going down (even if our scouting team miraculously spot a bargain in January, how long before that player gets up to speed ?). 
I can see an argument for selling in July (but not one I personally think will help us) but in January ??.

 

[SaveloyMush]

4 hours ago, Minsk said:

£50m wouldn't buy his left foot, let alone his right.

No way should we sell our best player, and captain, to a clear rival in mid-season. 

No-one is paying £50m for James Ward-Fucking-Prowse.

[Mosin]

1 hour ago, SaveloyMush said:

No-one is paying £50m for James Ward-Fucking-Prowse.

100 % i agree, would have to be more than that for the club to even consider selling...

 

[verlaine1979]

If the money went on strengthening the squad, I'd sell in a heartbeat if they offer £50m or more. That's three high quality additions to the first team vs. a solid player who only really excels at set pieces (I'm aware of JWPs stats, but there is a huge difference between central midfielders who get through a lot of work, and central midfielders capable of seizing and running a game - I have yet to see JWP do the latter in nine years, having seen the likes of Morgan and Wanyama do it multiple times).

[wild-saint]

How many time have I read on these threads people saying if we can get “£xxxx million” we can rebuild the squad. Inevitably we sell and then only spend a % of the incoming cash (often on junk) and find ourselves worse off. When will people learn selling your best players isn’t a good move. I’d keep JWP.

[Billy the Kidd]

When will you people learn 😅

[Mosin]

7 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

If the money went on strengthening the squad, I'd sell in a heartbeat if they offer £50m or more. That's three high quality additions to the first team vs. a solid player who only really excels at set pieces (I'm aware of JWPs stats, but there is a huge difference between central midfielders who get through a lot of work, and central midfielders capable of seizing and running a game - I have yet to see JWP do the latter in nine years, having seen the likes of Morgan and Wanyama do it multiple times).

absent against Leeds last year when JWP took Kavlin phillips out of the first 45min? and ran the game? 3-1 lose to chelsea before JWP got sent off, Saints was the team dominating till that moment... i can think of a few.

[TWar]

10 hours ago, SaveloyMush said:

No-one is paying £50m for James Ward-Fucking-Prowse.

Our best player, captain, one of the best players outside the top-6, incredible injury record, still 26, and English. The bidding starts way above £50m for me, the guy is amazing. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

21 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

If he wants to take it further then the burden of proof is on him, not me. 

If you libel someone then the burden of proof is on you (and Saintsweb) as the publishers, not him

Edited 30 October, 2021 by Ex Lion Tamer

[CB Fry]

Why are you fannies still going on about a libel related to some guy who runs a clickbait bullshit website?

 

Edited 30 October, 2021 by CB Fry

[SaintSteve]

2 hours ago, TWar said:

Our best player, captain, one of the best players outside the top-6, incredible injury record, still 26, and English. The bidding starts way above £50m for me, the guy is amazing. 

You clearly don’t go to our matches - maybe your stats analysis is misleading you 😂

[Mosin]

28 minutes ago, SaintSteve said:

You clearly don’t go to our matches - maybe your stats analysis is misleading you 😂

or you dont? he is the current POTS, and is regarded as our best player even when Ings was here by Pundits... you sure you just dont have a persona like most of the forums trolls who always seem to have a different view of the majority and pundits? ...

[TWar]

40 minutes ago, SaintSteve said:

You clearly don’t go to our matches - maybe your stats analysis is misleading you 😂

I go to a good number of our matches, and it is generally pretty highly agreed JWP is quality among pundets, analysts and our manager

[TWar]

2 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

If you libel someone then the burden of proof is on you (and Saintsweb) as the publishers, not him

This is unfortunately legally true, but silly imo from an ethical perspective when it comes to making up news but that's the way it is. 

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

I go to a good number of our matches, and it is generally pretty highly agreed JWP is quality among pundets, analysts and our manager

I wouldn't pay too much attention to pundits - most of the time they simply don't watch Saints enough to form any kind of decent judgement.  They'll regurgitate the same old clichés whether they're accurate or not. 

With the caveat that this is almost certainly bollocks, I have to say I'm not that bothered if he goes and we get something like 50M which is all reinvested in the team.  I'm not saying JWP is a bad player but I don't think he's that great either.  In terms of open play I'd put him on the same kind of level as Matty Oakley although probably a bit more mobile.  I'd be more worried if Salisu left than JWP right now. 

When you think of all the players we've sold in relatively recent times I think JWP is less of a loss than say, Mane, VVD, Pelle, Lallana or Ings and that's just off the top of my head.  In fact if you offered me Schneiderlin (at his peak) I would take him over JWP.  The only thing we can't replace is his free kicks - no getting away from it, they're good.  Anyway, just an opinion - got no stats to back it up.

[Harry_SFC]

5 hours ago, TWar said:

Our best player, captain, one of the best players outside the top-6, incredible injury record, still 26, and English. The bidding starts way above £50m for me, the guy is amazing. 

Is that you, James?

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 hours ago, TWar said:

Our best player, captain, one of the best players outside the top-6, incredible injury record, still 26, and English. The bidding starts way above £50m for me, the guy is amazing. 

🍺🍺🍺🍺

[Singapore Saint]

On 29/10/2021 at 15:55, Bob76 said:

Stunning how easily people want to get rid of one of our most consistent performers. Last season he was un-droppable now after six games people want rid to be replaced by some unknowns. Weird. 

Diallo is not an "unknown", especially now we see how much more dynamic the midfield is with him instead of JWP.

[Bob76]

1 hour ago, Singapore Saint said:

Diallo is not an "unknown", especially now we see how much more dynamic the midfield is with him instead of JWP.

The unknowns are the players people are saying we would but with the money.

[Singapore Saint]

2 hours ago, Bob76 said:

The unknowns are the players people are saying we would but with the money.

JWP doesn't need replacing, Diallo his replacement is already here, an upgrade if you ask me.

[moonraker]

Why would JWP join a championship side, that’s where the toon are headed.  He has is distractors on here but anyone with a footballing brain knows JWP is not a bad player,

.

 

 

[rooney]

7 hours ago, moonraker said:

Why would JWP join a championship side, that’s where the toon are headed.  He has is distractors on here but anyone with a footballing brain knows JWP is not a bad player,

.

 

 

Precisely.

[East Kent Saint]

I doubt if JWP would relish joining the Magpies at the moment . Their first problem is getting a decent manager/coach , he will have his preferences on who he wants to sign . Agents will be flooding twitter with fake stories as well !

[Minsk]

On 29/10/2021 at 22:05, SaveloyMush said:

No-one is paying £50m for James Ward-Fucking-Prowse.

You're right, no one is paying £50m for our captain and only current England international. Thanks for agreeing with me. As I said, he would cost more than that.

By the way, why did you feel the need to put an expletive into the middle of his name? Do you have some deep, underlying, hatred towards him? Maybe go get some counselling?

[Minsk]

On 29/10/2021 at 18:31, Lee On Solent Saint said:

With the cash they have, sadly they won't be a rival for very much longer.

I honestly don't think they will be able their way out of relegation this season. I believe they have already stated that they won't be spending more than £50m in the January window. And hasn't there been a temporary rule put in place stopping them from suddenly splashing the cash? So the 50 is probably about all they are allowed to spend. The key to their survival will be appointing the right manager and keeping Wilson and Saint-Maximin fit. They are their only 2 decent players.