Joe Aribo

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

Didn't happen in the 60's and 70's so it must be stinky. Perfectly normal thing to think.

These numbers were invented solely for the betting industry. They have no reflection on the game or how it should be played. FIFA didn’t start keeping any records officially until 1996.

You Americans might not realise that the game began way back in the 19th century. It was doing all right without all this drivel for well over a hundred years. 
 

You can’t analyse football. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assist_(association_football)

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

These numbers were invented solely for the betting industry. They have no reflection on the game or how it should be played. FIFA didn’t start keeping any records officially until 1996.

You Americans might not realise that the game began way back in the 19th century. It was doing all right without all this drivel for well over a hundred years. 
 

You can’t analyse football. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assist_(association_football)

If Smallbone getting assist is leading to you having to double down and conclude you can’t analyse football then you really should stop watching. As point out above, you’re talking utter shite, again.

Edited 3 March, 2024 by Fabrice29

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

These numbers were invented solely for the betting industry. They have no reflection on the game or how it should be played. FIFA didn’t start keeping any records officially until 1996.

You Americans might not realise that the game began way back in the 19th century. It was doing all right without all this drivel for well over a hundred years. 
 

You can’t analyse football. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assist_(association_football)

Pretty sure they became more prevalent with the invention of 'fantasy football' in the Telegraph (originally) in the late 90's.  A way for your team to score more points without relying on goals scored.  

[CB Fry]

8 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

 

You can’t analyse football. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assist_(association_football)

Replace the word "football" here with the word "blue whales" or "inner city children's cognitive development" or "the flow of traffic in metropolitan areas" and you might understand how moronic your statement is.

You can "analyse" anything.

Edited 3 March, 2024 by CB Fry

[for_heaven's_Saint]

I mean you only have to look at the fact that every top football club has a full time analysis department, plus our manager constantly talks about analysing previous games, to see that you very much can analyse football. 

[Whitey Grandad]

10 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

If Smallbone getting assist is leading to you having to double down and conclude you can’t analyse football then you really should stop watching. As point out above, you’re talking utter shite, again.

Why the abuse? If you have to resort to that then you have run out of arguments.
 

What you call an ‘assist’ is not relevant to anything. It just happens to be the last person who touched the ball immediately before the goalscorer (of his own team).

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Replace the word "football" here with the word "blue whales" or "inner city children's cognitive development" or "the flow of traffic in metropolitan areas" and you might understand how moronic your statement is.

You can "analyse" anything.

“Analyse” does not mean just compiling a list of figures. It means interpreting them. 
 

And  don’t use words like “moronic” about me. I don’t abuse you personally so why do you have to resort to such insults?

[CB Fry]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

“Analyse” does not mean just compiling a list of figures. It means interpreting them. 
 

And  don’t use words like “moronic” about me. I don’t abuse you personally so why do you have to resort to such insults?

Don't try and explain the word "analyse" to me when you have used the phrase "you can't analyse football" when, obviously, you can. 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, for_heaven's_Saint said:

I mean you only have to look at the fact that every top football club has a full time analysis department, plus our manager constantly talks about analysing previous games, to see that you very much can analyse football. 

You can try but it’s like trying to catch a fart in your hands. It’s when people try to use imaginary figures to make decisions that things start to go wrong.

[Badger]

12 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

“Assists” 🙄

What a load of nonsense. Almost as though he had some part in creating the goals. 

 

 

11 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Assists have been recorded in he World Cup since 1954, Pele holds the record (10). In our day we used to say a player "made" a goal (but I'm sure they didn't record "makes").

I’m with you two on this, Xg complete headwank in my book, “assists” not far behind. But if the modern hipster social media generation want to get a ‘hard on’ over it then fine but don’t spout it as if it’s written on a tablet of stone.

The difference in making a goal strikes me as a Paine or a Sydenham beating a player, or an individual bit of skill setting up the opportunity, not the last player to pass it (possibly sideways a few yards) for someone else to do the business, Brooks yesterday for example.

 

[Badger]

Shame Saints didn’t employ a Data Analyst in the 50’s and 60’s,interesting to know how many assists Paine and Sydenham were credited with.

Would no doubt come as a shock to some of the ‘new age men’ who think they’ve reinvented football. 

[Badger]

4 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Pretty sure they became more prevalent with the invention of 'fantasy football' in the Telegraph (originally) in the late 90's.  A way for your team to score more points without relying on goals scored.  

Probably true that it coincides with ‘fantasy football’, but playing my MLG card on this one, doesn’t it still rely on goals scored ?

Creating missed opportunities does not register as an assist. 

Edited 3 March, 2024 by Badger

[CB Fry]

5 minutes ago, Badger said:

Shame Saints didn’t employ a Data Analyst in the 50’s and 60’s,interesting to know how many assists Paine and Sydenham were credited with.

Would no doubt come as a shock to some of the ‘new age men’ who think they’ve reinvented football. 

Maybe Russell Martin should send the team out wearing 50s and 60s boots on Wednesday. After all iT nEvEr diD tErRy pAiNe aNy hARm nO iT dIdN't

 

[Badger]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

Maybe Russell Martin should send the team out wearing 50s and 60s boots on Wednesday. After all iT nEvEr diD tErRy pAiNe aNy hARm nO iT dIdN't

 

Fair point perhaps. But it was probably more to do with the calibre of player suiting the game at the time. 
 

[Fabrice29]

36 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Why the abuse? If you have to resort to that then you have run out of arguments.
 

What you call an ‘assist’ is not relevant to anything. It just happens to be the last person who touched the ball immediately before the goalscorer (of his own team).

You questioned my sanity about 6 posts ago, if we're talking about running out of arguments. 

[Fabrice29]

25 minutes ago, Badger said:

 

I’m with you two on this, Xg complete headwank in my book, “assists” not far behind. But if the modern hipster social media generation want to get a ‘hard on’ over it then fine but don’t spout it as if it’s written on a tablet of stone.

The difference in making a goal strikes me as a Paine or a Sydenham beating a player, or an individual bit of skill setting up the opportunity, not the last player to pass it (possibly sideways a few yards) for someone else to do the business, Brooks yesterday for example.

 

Would obviously point out that not only does Smallbone give Brooks the ball yesterday to register the assist, he also deliberately makes a run to take away the defender in the space Brooks moves into shoot. Not sure if thats me using my eyes or being hipster though.

[pingpong]

Smallbone made a driving run that gave brooks the space to shoot, as well as supplying the cross for Adams goal. He was a key figure, far from peripheral, and helped get the crowd going too. He's a crisp passer of the ball.

He also really wants to play for us. 

We should support him when he plays. I'd be happy with him or aribo playing, it's nice to have two in form players for that position.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, pingpong said:

Smallbone made a driving run that gave brooks the space to shoot, as well as supplying the cross for Adams goal. He was a key figure, far from peripheral, and helped get the crowd going too. He's a crisp passer of the ball.

He also really wants to play for us. 

We should support him when he plays. I'd be happy with him or aribo playing, it's nice to have two in form players for that position.

He also flicked a very deft pass round the corner to keep the move going for our first goal.

Edited 3 March, 2024 by saintant

[The Kraken]

6 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Pretty sure they became more prevalent with the invention of 'fantasy football' in the Telegraph (originally) in the late 90's.  A way for your team to score more points without relying on goals scored.  

Halcyon days those, and it was much earlier than the late 90s, I remember doing Telegraph FF in 1993/94 season. Buying the paper on a Monday to find out how you’d got on over the weekend, kids today with online minute to minute points updates don’t know they’re born.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Probably true that it coincides with ‘fantasy football’, but playing my MLG card on this one, doesn’t it still rely on goals scored ?

Creating missed opportunities does not register as an assist. 

True.

Was meant to mean "without relying solely on the goals scored (by strikers) and the relative points that only they earnt" /mlgmode.

[Weston Super Saint]

10 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Halcyon days those, and it was much earlier than the late 90s, I remember doing Telegraph FF in 1993/94 season. Buying the paper on a Monday to find out how you’d got on over the weekend, kids today with online minute to minute points updates don’t know they’re born.

I think I only ever did the cricket - we had five of us playing and the winner at the end of the season got a bottle of Bollinger from the other four.

Think I've still got one in the cupboard

If I remember correctly, I think substitutions needed to be sent by post???

[The Kraken]

11 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I think I only ever did the cricket - we had five of us playing and the winner at the end of the season got a bottle of Bollinger from the other four.

Think I've still got one in the cupboard

If I remember correctly, I think substitutions needed to be sent by post???

I think they must have been, yeah! And I can only think that the standings were printed out in full each week. Wouldn’t be able to do that with the amount of people playing these days.

[pimpin4rizeal]

3 hours ago, pingpong said:

Smallbone made a driving run that gave brooks the space to shoot, as well as supplying the cross for Adams goal. He was a key figure, far from peripheral, and helped get the crowd going too. He's a crisp passer of the ball.

He also really wants to play for us. 

We should support him when he plays. I'd be happy with him or aribo playing, it's nice to have two in form players for that position.

Yeah it was a clever run tbf. 

Saying that though if Brooks doesn’t do the hard part of cutting in and scoring with a great strike no one would give a shit about smallbones pass here .. he’s just played a fairly streight forward pass to brooks  and followed it with a run ..

surely this wouldn’t be counted as a big chance created ?

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Would obviously point out that not only does Smallbone give Brooks the ball yesterday to register the assist, he also deliberately makes a run to take away the defender in the space Brooks moves into shoot. Not sure if thats me using my eyes or being hipster though.

Other players were also making runs. 
 

Smallbone had a good game. But he wasn’t alone.

[Saint_clark]

16 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

These numbers were invented solely for the betting industry. They have no reflection on the game or how it should be played. FIFA didn’t start keeping any records officially until 1996.

You Americans might not realise that the game began way back in the 19th century. It was doing all right without all this drivel for well over a hundred years. 
 

You can’t analyse football. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assist_(association_football)

Assists weren't invented for the betting industry FFS, you couldn't even bet on assists until online gambling became a thing and even then only in the last 5 years or so when they rapidly expanded their markets. 

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Assists weren't invented for the betting industry FFS, you couldn't even bet on assists until online gambling became a thing and even then only in the last 5 years or so when they rapidly expanded their markets. 

You are only thinking of your own experiences here in the UK.

It’s not just assists, it’s all the other random figures. The betting was in the Far East and that goes back a long way.

[Badger]

5 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Would obviously point out that not only does Smallbone give Brooks the ball yesterday to register the assist, he also deliberately makes a run to take away the defender in the space Brooks moves into shoot. Not sure if thats me using my eyes or being hipster though.

Players making dummy or decoy runs whatever they are called  now, seldom get the recognition for this. For one thing it might be difficult for the analysts to ‘measure’ or record it as opposed to factually who passed the last ball to the scorer.

So from yesterday, Smallbone has his straightforward pass registered as an assist, but his subsequent play in making space for Brooks - probably more significant in the goal - goes unnoticed.

Tends to support the question over the reliability of such stats, in my view.

Or perhaps he deserves two ‘assists’. 

[redkeith]

I can remember a great Steve Williams goal against Norwich at the Dell. 

Keegan passed it square to Williams on the half way line. Williams then slalomed past 5 or 6 of the Norwich team before curling it round the keeper from the inside left position.  

Keegan joked about it the paper afterwards that, in America that would have been an assist. 

Personally,  I quite like assists,  but it is not always a pass that is important, a good diversionary run could be more important.  

 

[VectisSaint]

Always thought 'assists' were originally a thing in ice hockey, long before they were ever a thing in association football. 

[lambtiss]

I thought I'd join this thread to read about Joe Aribo. Silly me

[skintsaint]

Loved Dowie's important assist in MLT's goal v Newcastle in 1993.

[Saint_clark]

Nobody is suggesting that getting a couple of assists makes you a creative genius. 

 

But consistently getting assists throughout the season, ending up in double figures and especially getting 15-20 or more clearly does evidence that a player is good at creating chances. It's not a meaningless stat when taken in context of a whole season compared to other players. 

[Mr X]

Must admit Aribo came across as a complete carthorse the times id seen him previously, howoever he has shown more work rate and ball control in these last few games and has done well. 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Was excellent when he came on yesterday. All around me in the stadium were saying so. Great to see. 

[Dark Munster]

5 hours ago, Mr X said:

Must admit Aribo came across as a complete carthorse the times id seen him previously, howoever he has shown more work rate and ball control in these last few games and has done well. 

Actually he's been very good for quite a while now, not just recently. I think it's been since he shaved his hair off. Coincidence?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

I'd seen him a fair amount for Rangers. Whatever happened when he joined here, he regressed quite a bit. Martin and the staff have managed to help him turn that round, and he's actually looking better than I remember him.

We've had a few players who have struggled a lot with form for whatever reason, such as Stu. Martin's environment seems to have a positive effect. I can't imagine everyone in any dressing room is happy all the time. But he's made sure that players have ben brought in gradually with minutes and developed. There have been odd exceptions. Rothwell, goals aside which is no minor thing, probably suffers from being thrown in a bit. But generally, he seems to have kept a fair number of players on board. Quite a far cry from seperate dressing rooms and the cliques of last season.

[rooney]

Joe must be our most improved player this season.

[JRM]

1 hour ago, rooney said:

Joe must be our most improved player this season.

Yeah he was awful last season and had given up hope on him coming good, he's an important player for us now and offers a lot. 

Rangers fans really liked him , maybe just took him time to adjust. 

[disconnect]

3 minutes ago, JRM said:

Yeah he was awful last season and had given up hope on him coming good, he's an important player for us now and offers a lot. 

Rangers fans really liked him , maybe just took him time to adjust. 

He was pretty good in his first few performances, and that seemed to get coached out of him. I think even Adam Armstrong scored a great goal on his debut, and then became fairly hopeless.

[pimpin4rizeal]

I’d like to see Aribo get a chance up front. He played there before at rangers and scored in European final playing there .. he’s got enough strength to hold his own against defenders and hold the ball up .. could he be any worse then che ?  

Adans constant inclusion in the starting line up just results in our best chances falling to him, he can only score close range anyway and him starting just stops someone who could finish properly doing the job 

Edited 30 March, 2024 by pimpin4rizeal

[S-Clarke]

24 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

I’d like to see Aribo get a chance up front. He played there before at rangers and scored in European final playing there .. he’s got enough strength to hold his own against defenders and hold the ball up .. could he be any worse then che ?  

Adans constant inclusion in the starting line up just results in our best chances falling to him, he can only score close range anyway and him starting just stops someone who could finish properly doing the job 

As fans we complain about the shoe-horning players, square pegs etc yet suggest stuff like this. Aribo is not a striker, he is a number 10 at most in an attacking sense. 

We tried to play him as a striker during pre-season when he first signed for us, epic fail there. Being 'tall and strong' should not be the single prerequisite for playing up front.

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

As fans we complain about the shoe-horning players, square pegs etc yet suggest stuff like this. Aribo is not a striker, he is a number 10 at most in an attacking sense. 

We tried to play him as a striker during pre-season when he first signed for us, epic fail there. Being 'tall and strong' should not be the single prerequisite for playing up front.

Just being better than Adams is enough.

[SNSUN]

8 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

As fans we complain about the shoe-horning players, square pegs etc yet suggest stuff like this. Aribo is not a striker, he is a number 10 at most in an attacking sense. 

We tried to play him as a striker during pre-season when he first signed for us, epic fail there. Being 'tall and strong' should not be the single prerequisite for playing up front.

Whilst I agree with not playing players out of position, we're not exactly getting much from the players that naturally play in that position in Adams and Mara. If it wasn't such a key point in the season I'd say giving Aribo a shot up top would be worth a try, but we are at a crucial point and Adams is as good as we've got...

...although while I prefer AA out wide, perhaps having him centrally with Brooks on the right is the way to go forwards. At least AA can finish.

[pimpin4rizeal]

On 30/03/2024 at 14:49, S-Clarke said:

As fans we complain about the shoe-horning players, square pegs etc yet suggest stuff like this. Aribo is not a striker, he is a number 10 at most in an attacking sense. 

We tried to play him as a striker during pre-season when he first signed for us, epic fail there. Being 'tall and strong' should not be the single prerequisite for playing up front.

But he has played successfully as a striker/false nine for rangers successfully even scoring in a European final playing there ..

as said he has a very versatile skill set and has strength and vision to hold up the ball and link play . Surely we would rather chances falling to him then che ?

 

[Saint_clark]

On 30/03/2024 at 15:00, SNSUN said:

Whilst I agree with not playing players out of position, we're not exactly getting much from the players that naturally play in that position in Adams and Mara. If it wasn't such a key point in the season I'd say giving Aribo a shot up top would be worth a try, but we are at a crucial point and Adams is as good as we've got...

...although while I prefer AA out wide, perhaps having him centrally with Brooks on the right is the way to go forwards. At least AA can finish.

Would like to see Mara given 4-5 games in a row starting up top before we write off his contribution. 

[Turkish]

27 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Would like to see Mara given 4-5 games in a row starting up top before we write off his contribution. 

when?

[Saint_clark]

8 minutes ago, Turkish said:

when?

Maybe 2-3 games from the end of the season. 

[ErwinK1961]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

when?

On the basis we’re definitely finishing 4th, plus we’re definitely going to lose to a team in better form in the playoffs, what’s the harm in sticking him in now?

[Wade Garrett]

He was probably our best player yesterday, then got subbed by the idiot.

[thesaint sfc]

17 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

He was probably our best player yesterday, then got subbed by the idiot.

Totally 100% agree. 

Fraser looked knackered from the start yesterday. Brooks should have come on at half time.

Stu Armstrong looked absolutely knackered and should have come off earlier for Rothwell (who I thought played well) but Aribo looked absolutely fine and every time he had the ball we looked threatening. We were only progressing up the pitch through Aribo and Stu and he takes them both off. Absolutely diabolical. RM pisses me off as a manager and as a person.