VAR- What is it good for.........

[Lord Duckhunter]

14 hours ago, danjosaint said:

When he stopped reffing a few months back he done interview with either sky or talksport and said he iirc didn't give a decision because didn't want to undermine his 'mate' he also said he shouldn't of sent Bednarek off at old Trafford and that was mistake 

It was on Simon Jordan podcast.
Overall he came across pretty well I thought. 

[Captain Jack]

20 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

This incident will go down in Scouse Folklore. Shirts will be worn during warmups, songs sung, Tories blamed....this is everything they revel in

Until such time they benefit from a significant referring cock up

Have the Sun had anything to say about it? Maybe in twenty years there will be a court case and it will turn out to be the fault of the Metropolitan Police.

[Turkish]

Klopp wants the game replayed FFS. WAC. 

The amount of times they've got the benefit of referee mistakes. 

Jurgen Klopp demands Liverpool are given a replay after VAR audio is released - Mirror Online

[Jimmy_D]

I want all the games where Liverpool have had VvD playing to be replayed after they used illegal tactics to sign him.

[badgerx16]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Klopp wants the game replayed FFS. WAC. 

The amount of times they've got the benefit of referee mistakes. 

Jurgen Klopp demands Liverpool are given a replay after VAR audio is released - Mirror Online

By that logic, every match in which MOTD shows a refereeing error should be replayed. Then what happens if in the replay there is another mistake ? Bloody bin dipping victim culture.

[skintsaint]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Klopp wants the game replayed FFS. WAC. 

The amount of times they've got the benefit of referee mistakes. 

Jurgen Klopp demands Liverpool are given a replay after VAR audio is released - Mirror Online

What a prick. Think Brighton last year Fabinho should have been sent off but wasn't and that was admitted as a mistake. Didn't hear him then asking for a replay.

 

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Obviously retrospectively replaying all the games where there have been wrong decisions would be far too complicated. So focusing on the bestest, most special club and the huge number of injustices they have faced over the years should be the way to go.

[AlexLaw76]

https://www.themag.co.uk/2023/10/liverpool-have-been-among-the-biggest-beneficiaries-of-dubious-decisions-what-goes-around-comes-around-newcastle-united-var-tottenham-2-liverpool-1/

[Lighthouse]

Who was it Salah scored against last year, when he was clearly offside but VAR allowed it because the ball deflected off a defender? That should never have been given but I don’t remember too many Scouse calls for a replay either.

[whelk]

It isn’t comparable to other refereeing mistakes. It isn’t about ‘what about other mistakes’ as they were made in good faith. This was a fuck up by VAR and giving wrong decision. Embarrassing how some of you hate scousers irrationally.

[ashnats]

EVERYONE IMMEDIATELY STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING RIGHT NOW.

LIVERPOOL HAVE HAD AN OFFSIDE DECISON GO AGAINST THEM.

REPLAY THE GAME, OR PAUSE THE PREMIER LEAGUE UNTIL THIS IS SORTED OUT.

NOTHING LIKE THIS HAS EVER HAPPENED BEFORE.

IN CASE YOU DIDNT HEAR, LIVERPOOL HAVE HAD AN OFFSIDE DECISION GO AGAINST THEM. STOP THE PRESSES.

I ASSUME THIS IS THE END OF OUR PROMOTION CAMPAIGN. SURELY FOOTBALL CANT CONTINUE NOW?

[SW5 SAINT]

I wonder if it had been Luton v Burnley would this level of fuss be taking place….?

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

By that logic, every match in which MOTD shows a refereeing error should be replayed. Then what happens if in the replay there is another mistake ? Bloody bin dipping victim culture.

 

2 hours ago, skintsaint said:

What a prick. Think Brighton last year Fabinho should have been sent off but wasn't and that was admitted as a mistake. Didn't hear him then asking for a replay.

 

 

What about the crazy amount of games that he was whinging about recently? Surely replaying this game will just add to that burden he has to deal with.  I can’t stand the guy, plays this nice, funny guy but he’s a massive cunt underneath it all. I’m not even convinced he’s that great a manager, for all his whinging about how Liverpool can’t compete the team that won the title had the most expensive goalkeeper and centre back in history at that time. 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

It isn’t comparable to other refereeing mistakes. It isn’t about ‘what about other mistakes’ as they were made in good faith. This was a fuck up by VAR and giving wrong decision. Embarrassing how some of you hate scousers irrationally.

It’s a cock up, a bad one, but the reaction to it from the whinging scousers is beyond the pale but normal. No other club would have carried on like this 

[Turkish]

[S-Clarke]

52 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It’s a cock up, a bad one, but the reaction to it from the whinging scousers is beyond the pale but normal. No other club would have carried on like this 

It's no surprise though is it, it's always all about them.

I didn't see Wolves kicking up the fuss when their legit goal was ruled out at the start of the season.

[beatlesaint]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

It's no surprise though is it, it's always all about them.

I didn't see Wolves kicking up the fuss when their legit goal was ruled out at the start of the season.

Can we go back to the League Cup match at The Dell in the late 80’s when Roger Milford’s watch stopped and Oldham scored an equaliser which ultimately robbed us of a glorious League Cup Final appearance and win?

[The Kraken]

37 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Can we go back to the League Cup match at The Dell in the late 80’s when Roger Milford’s watch stopped and Oldham scored an equaliser which ultimately robbed us of a glorious League Cup Final appearance and win?

Urgh, what a rotter of a finish to the night that was, I was there at the dell that night and everyone knew when it went in that we were done for at Oldham’s placcy pitch in the replay. Archers Road after the game was interesting.

[Kenilworthy]

9 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

Can we go back to the League Cup match at The Dell in the late 80’s when Roger Milford’s watch stopped and Oldham scored an equaliser which ultimately robbed us of a glorious League Cup Final appearance and win?

Three times under Chris Nicholl we went out of the League Cup due to malicious refereeing decisions. As well as Oldham there was the disallowed goal that put us in the lead against Luton and then the nonsensical decision by George Courtney, the Mike Dean of the time, so send Jimmy Case off at Old Trafford for a foul on Bryan Robson on the halfway line.

[david in sweden]

14 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Obviously retrospectively replaying all the games where there have been wrong decisions would be far too complicated. So focusing on the bestest, most special club and the huge number of injustices they have faced over the years should be the way to go.

.... and of course all those years that Man U. benefited from " Fergie-time ". ....and the fact that no club ever won a penalty at Old Trafford during

a period of 8 years  must tell a lot .   If the " correct results " of all those games were to be replayed  MU would be struggling in the drop zone. 

[david in sweden]

14 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Obviously retrospectively replaying all the games where there have been wrong decisions would be far too complicated. So focusing on the bestest, most special club and the huge number of injustices they have faced over the years should be the way to go.

everything evens itself out over a season but unless that one decision finally decides the Prem. title  there really is nothing for Liverpool to complain about.

Replaying games - regardless of how legitimate the claim may have been - would set a dangerous precedent and lengthen the season enormously. 

[Elmore Saint]

Just listening to the audio tells me how fucked up the implementation of VAR is. Look at how many people are involved- ref, 4th, VAR, 2 assistants and a vtr operator. No wonder they got their knickers in a knot! Too many voices, no clear question asked  

Other video review implementations have clear, short points of contact between on field and video review. Cricket is a good example of clarity of communication.

To add to an already well worn phrase- football is a simple game made more complicated by managers and a fuck-ton of FIFA officialdom….

[gecko]

14 hours ago, whelk said:

It isn’t comparable to other refereeing mistakes. It isn’t about ‘what about other mistakes’ as they were made in good faith. This was a fuck up by VAR and giving wrong decision. Embarrassing how some of you hate scousers irrationally.

It is comparable though. The audio released suggests that this was also a mistake made in good faith. At no point is there any hint that it was biased towards one team over another - nothing about the outcome is any different to a human error on the pitch; except perhaps that 4 people all made the same ballsup.

Even if they weren't comparable. What's the solution? Pander to Klopp and replay it, which sets an irreversible precedent? or, do we allow VAR some grace period in-game to bring a restarted game back to rectify a mistake? Or, like all other mistakes that happen in the game, can Klopp just suck it up and put his big boy pants on like everyone else has to?

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, tillerp said:

Just listening to the audio tells me how fucked up the implementation of VAR is. Look at how many people are involved- ref, 4th, VAR, 2 assistants and a vtr operator. No wonder they got their knickers in a knot! Too many voices, no clear question asked  

Other video review implementations have clear, short points of contact between on field and video review. Cricket is a good example of clarity of communication.

To add to an already well worn phrase- football is a simple game made more complicated by managers and a fuck-ton of FIFA officialdom….

Exactly this, I was struck with just how many voices there were during normal play, the ref is basically in constant dialogue with his linos (assistant refs) and the 4th official, plus VAR chips in when it seems appropriate. You’ve got the Lino and the ref having a chat about holding (both holding, let it go; yeah, letting it go), the other Lino chips into the goal decision (quite why, who knows?), then VAR says that there’s a possible offside review, then all he’ll breaks loose.  Heres the full transcript. No fewer than seven different people all talking to arrive at this decision. 

Assistant Referee 1 (AR1): All good. Both holding. Both holding. 

Referee: Yeah, leave it alone. 

AR1: Waiting. Delaying, delaying.

AR2: Give it.

VAR: Possible offside - Diaz.

Assistant referee 1: Coming back for the offside, mate.

Assistant referee 2: Give it.

VAR: Just checking the offside. Delay, delay. Give the kick point, let's go. Kick point, please?

Referee: Yeah no worries, mate.

Replay operator: So here we are.

Referee: Wait OK.

Replay operator: Just get a tight angle.

VAR: Yeah, give me a 2D line ready after this one for frame two after that.

Replay operator: So frame two there?

VAR: That's fine. Perfect, yeah. 2D line on left boot.

Replay operator: Let me just switch angles.

VAR: Romero, I think it is?

Replay operator: I think it might be this angle better? Happy with this angle?

VAR: Yep.

Replay operator: 2D line on the boot. Yep OK.

VAR: And stop. Check complete, check complete. That's fine, perfect [showing Diaz is clearly onside]. Off.

Referee: Cheers, mate.

VAR: Thank you, mate.

Referee: Well done, boys. Good process [game restarts with a free-kick].

Replay operator: Wait, wait, wait, wait. The on-field decision was offside. Are you happy with this?

Assistant VAR: Yeah.

Replay operator: Are you happy with this?

Assistant VAR: Offside goal, yeah. That's wrong, Daz.

VAR: What?

Replay operator: On-field decision was offside. Are you happy with this image? Yeah - it's onside. The image that we gave them is onside.

Assistant VAR: He's played him. He's gone offside.

VAR: Oh [expletive].

Replay operative: Delay, delay. Oli [PGMOL Hub Ops] saying to delay. Oli's saying to delay.

VAR: Pardon?

Replay operator: Oli's calling in to say delay the game. The decision is onside.

VAR: Can't do anything.

Replay operator: Oli's saying to delay. Oli's saying to delay.

VAR: Oli?

Fourth official: Yeah.

Replay operative: Delay the game, to delay the game. Stop the game.

VAR: They've restarted the game. Can't do anything, can't do anything.

Assistant VAR: Yeah, they've restarted. Yeah.

VAR: Can't do anything.

Assistant VAR: No.

VAR: I can't do anything. I can't do anything [expletive].

 

 

[Saint_clark]

Yeah I was struck by how chaotic the audio was. It almost seemed to me they were in an absolute rush which is quite funny because that's probably due to the criticisms of how long it's taken in the past. 

I will say one thing that transcript doesn't get across is that it's very clear the VAR official didn't realise what the on field call was - the "off" comment I think is a typo and he was actually saying "kick-off". Pretty sure he thought the goal had been given on field, hence saying there was no problem. 

[The Kraken]

23 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Yeah I was struck by how chaotic the audio was. It almost seemed to me they were in an absolute rush which is quite funny because that's probably due to the criticisms of how long it's taken in the past. 

I will say one thing that transcript doesn't get across is that it's very clear the VAR official didn't realise what the on field call was - the "off" comment I think is a typo and he was actually saying "kick-off". Pretty sure he thought the goal had been given on field, hence saying there was no problem. 

Lots to learn from other sports that are much clearer at using VAR. Rugby and cricket in particular are very clear about what has been given, what is being reviewed, and the audio of the discussion between ref and Video ref is made available.

Having seen the transcript it’s no surprise this has happened, there’s just not enough clarity and like you say it all sounded hugely rushed. But it should be easy to put right as it was such a basic error.

 

Edited 5 October, 2023 by The Kraken

[Saint_clark]

11 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Lots to learn from other sports that are much clearer at using VAR. Rugby and cricket in particular are very clear about what has been given, what is being reviewed, and the audio of the discussion between ref and Video ref is made available.

Having seen the transcript it’s no surprise this has happened, there’s just not enough clarity and like you say it all sounded hugely rushed. But it shoul£ be east to put right as it was such a basic error.

Yeah it surprises me there isn't a clear policy on how these things work. Start of the process should be:

Referee "On field decision offside no goal, VAR can you confirm?"

 

Not "BFHEHuefhaeawnfoiUSHEOIGU delay delay suehfuoisef offside ushergousheo no problem, cheers Daz"

 

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, Kenilworthy said:

Three times under Chris Nicholl we went out of the League Cup due to malicious refereeing decisions. As well as Oldham there was the disallowed goal that put us in the lead against Luton and then the nonsensical decision by George Courtney, the Mike Dean of the time, so send Jimmy Case off at Old Trafford for a foul on Bryan Robson on the halfway line.

that goal against Luton was unreal, one of the Wallaces ran down the left wing, crossed to the other who scored to put us 1-0 up and it was given as a foul because the one who crossed it had put his arm out to protect the ball, it was never a free kick in a million years.

[Lord Duckhunter]

15 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

 

I didn't see Wolves kicking up the fuss when their legit goal was ruled out at the start of the season.

Wolves were the biggest whingers last season. Constantly moaning and demanding apologies, including Leminas red at our place. 

From the athletic 

“After 10 months of ranting and frustration, of Sunday apologies from Howard Webb, the head of referees’ body the PGMOL, of friendly chats, less friendly chats, angry conversations and letters of complaint, Wolves have simply given up hoping for better.”

 

The Liverpool decision was horrendous. There’s no doubt a large proportion of our fan base would be demanding a reply had that happened to us. I’d hope the club would show more class than they have, but our supporters would be exactly the same. Some still bang on about Gabbi’s goal fucking years ago. 

Edited 5 October, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[The Cat]

I really hope this is someone on here

 

 

[CB Fry]

I admit I had a couple of practices in front of the mirror before I filmed it, but once I'd set up the phone and back-light, I smashed it in one take 👍

Edited 5 October, 2023 by CB Fry

[tdmickey3]

9 hours ago, The Cat said:

I really hope this is someone on here

 

 

LD surely

[Lighthouse]

Can we get that Leeds game from the mid-nineties, when Mark Hughes ‘scored’, replayed?

[sfc4prem]

Can we get the League Cup Final of 2017 replayed?

[david in sweden]

On 05/10/2023 at 09:35, tillerp said:

Just listening to the audio tells me how fucked up the implementation of VAR is. Look at how many people are involved- ref, 4th, VAR, 2 assistants and a vtr operator. No wonder they got their knickers in a knot! Too many voices, no clear question asked  

Other video review implementations have clear, short points of contact between on field and video review. Cricket is a good example of clarity of communication.

To add to an already well worn phrase- football is a simple game made more complicated by managers and a fuck-ton of FIFA officialdom….

 In most of the games I've watched over here,  I got a pretty clear idea of the actual outcome just by watching the instant replays on Sky TV. 

VAR makes it all far TOO complicated.  

[Captain Jack]

On 05/10/2023 at 22:32, The Cat said:

I really hope this is someone on here

 

 

After watching that, the only thing that will stop me chuckling all day will be another 9-0 defeat this afternoon! 

[Midfield_General]

The European games in the week were using the largely automated version of VAR for offsides, the same system that was used in the last World Cup.

Seemed much quicker and clearer in getting to decisions, with much less deliberation and the image then shown quickly to prove the decision in the 3D/ Hawkeye style, rather than the flat lines drawn on the pitch. Seemed loads better, quicker and clearer, presumably because it takes out a lot of the human involvement and discussion out of the process. 

If that software is good enough to use in World Cups and the Champion’s League, then surely there’s a strong argument to use it in the PL next season. It seems streets ahead of the ‘human’ version. 

[Wurzel]

Even Have I Got News For You used the Liverpool VAR story as a question last night, then went on to totally taking the piss by deliberately announcing the score wrong at the end and then  playing audio of production staff argue out what to do about it (including the now infamous "Delay delay delay" as the credits rolled 🤣

[Tony F]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

If that software is good enough to use in World Cups and the Champion’s League, then surely there’s a strong argument to use it in the PL next season. It seems streets ahead of the ‘human’ version. 

You're not taking into account the "jobs for the boys" factor.  Especially once indoor jobs for the boys, which are in preference to being outdoors refereeing wet, windy and cold evening games

[revolution saint]

On 05/10/2023 at 22:32, The Cat said:

I really hope this is someone on here

 

 

That's quality.  I want him doing commentary and punditry on TV. 

[SotonianWill]

2 hours ago, Wurzel said:

Even Have I Got News For You used the Liverpool VAR story as a question last night, then went on to totally taking the piss by deliberately announcing the score wrong at the end and then  playing audio of production staff argue out what to do about it (including the now infamous "Delay delay delay" as the credits rolled 🤣

Just typed it up after reading this… excellent 😂

[badgerx16]

In the England Samoa rugby match, Samoa scored a try and kicked the conversion, only for the TMO to then rule it out for a knock-on.

[Elmore Saint]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

In the England Samoa rugby match, Samoa scored a try and kicked the conversion, only for the TMO to then rule it out for a knock-on.

And rugby have recently changed the rules to allow this to happen. Previously it was non-reversible once the conversion was taken. All the interventions today were sensible and clear, as was the conversion between referee and TMO. If only……

[The Kraken]

16 minutes ago, tillerp said:

And rugby have recently changed the rules to allow this to happen. Previously it was non-reversible once the conversion was taken. All the interventions today were sensible and clear, as was the conversion between referee and TMO. If only……

Yep. I watched the rugger today with my old man after saints finished, and we both commented how much better and clearer the video system in that game is. I genuinely think that English video refs are just arrogant dimwits compared to their peers across Europe in football and certainly across other sports, just not up to the job.

[Roo1976]

48 minutes ago, tillerp said:

And rugby have recently changed the rules to allow this to happen. Previously it was non-reversible once the conversion was taken. All the interventions today were sensible and clear, as was the conversion between referee and TMO. If only……

Btw your avatar would have been checked by VAR for how close the ball could have been to Matts hand,and not celebrated in the proper euphoric roar and amazement at how brilliant it was.

[Lord Duckhunter]

15 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

The European games in the week were using the largely automated version of VAR for offsides, the same system that was used in the last World Cup.

Seemed much quicker and clearer in getting to decisions, with much less deliberation and the image then shown quickly to prove the decision in the 3D/ Hawkeye style, rather than the flat lines drawn on the pitch. Seemed loads better, quicker and clearer, presumably because it takes out a lot of the human involvement and discussion out of the process. 

If that software is good enough to use in World Cups and the Champion’s League, then surely there’s a strong argument to use it in the PL next season. It seems streets ahead of the ‘human’ version. 

I read somewhere that because we use a different ball & it’s tied in to a sponsorship deal (I think it’s Nike but could be wrong) we cant use it. The ball we use hasn’t been authorised to use the chip needed and therefore we’d need to pay out to break the current ball contract, before using the ball that can put chip in.  Don’t know if it’s true, & cant remember where I read it, but wouldn’t surprise me. Money rules everything in our game. 

Edited 7 October, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[The Cat]

12 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Yep. I watched the rugger today with my old man after saints finished, and we both commented how much better and clearer the video system in that game is. I genuinely think that English video refs are just arrogant dimwits compared to their peers across Europe in football and certainly across other sports, just not up to the job.

All valid points but you called it "rugger" so that's an immediate 3 day ban from the forum.

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, The Cat said:

All valid points but you called it "rugger" so that's an immediate 3 day ban from the forum.