Saints 1-1 Rotherham - Match Thread

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Went to shit after the subs were made. Same as Selles last season, around the 60 minute mark, just make subs for the sake of it. None of them made a difference in a positive way.

He was right to make subs he just made the wrong ones, taking off all our attacking players that looked dangerous but leaving Adams on who had done nothing. I can only assume he arrogantly thought the game was in the bag and that he could afford to give Adams the game time. 

He should have taken Adams off for Mara and Smallbone off for Charles. 

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, Southner said:

Wondered the same. Che and the keeper were talking it through, but who knows?!

Also, what was the ref thinking giving a free kick against Frazer after getting blatantly barged over in the second half? 

We were completely baffled by that one too. Couldn't for the life of me see what it was for, from watching in the Kingsland.

[Charlie Wayman]

No two ways about it this was a bloody awful performance. The sheer ineptitude of our players beggars belief. Do they learn nothing in training? With the exception of Bazunu who had nothing to do, none of our players can be pleased with their performance today.

There is zero chance of Saints gaining promotion with this bunch of coaching clowns.

Edited 7 October, 2023 by Charlie Wayman

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We were completely baffled by that one too. Couldn't for the life of me see what it was for, from watching in the Kingsland.

If it's the same one i'm thinking of from the stream, the referee actually DID give that freekick to us but the linesman gave it the other way so the ref switched it round. 

[Southner]

Played it around nicely at the back at times to play ourselves out of trouble, but we don't seem to apply that as much when we have possession further up. It slows right down.

Get that second goal, and Rotherham would've had no choice but to open up and become vulnerable. At 1-0 they could just sit back and try to pinch something on one of the rare occasions they had the ball. Called it at HT. 

[Smirking_Saint]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We were completely baffled by that one too. Couldn't for the life of me see what it was for, from watching in the Kingsland.

Was right in line with it, Fraser got there first and got his leg across.. actually looked at first like the linesman gave it, then changed his mind.. odd

Ref I thought had a poor game overall, allowed Rotherham to play bully boy tactics and it got worse as the game progressed 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

7 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

He was right to make subs he just made the wrong ones, taking off all our attacking players that looked dangerous but leaving Adams on who had done nothing. I can only assume he arrogantly thought the game was in the bag and that he could afford to give Adams the game time. 

He should have taken Adams off for Mara and Smallbone off for Charles. 

Am just not a fan of making three changes at once, think it makes the team too disjointed for a period. Agree about Adams though, absolute shit. But when you are bringing on Mara as well, just goes to shoe how light we are in the forward area. 

[Southner]

6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We were completely baffled by that one too. Couldn't for the life of me see what it was for, from watching in the Kingsland.

Made absolutely no sense from the Northam, either. 

Think the ref made a few odd decisions. 

[Southner]

6 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Am just not a fan of making three changes at once, think it makes the team too disjointed for a period. Agree about Adams though, absolute shit. But when you are bringing on Mara as well, just goes to shoe how light we are in the forward area. 

Hope to god Stewart brings a breath of fresh air up front. 

[Midfield_General]

17 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

You are taking three games in isolation. Stoke we got away with it, today we were garbage and Leeds ok in the first half. And let’s not go back any further. Martin is not the answer no matter how long you happy clappers want to give him

I literally said I was only commenting on the last week, so yes, with that comment I was taking those three games in isolation. Compared to the shite that had gone before and how badly we’d been playing, getting 7 points from 9 in a week and ending up 3 points off third is something I would have taken if it was offered before those three games were played. 

I’m far from a happy clapper and I’m far from happy with Martin overall. I hoped we’d be doing much better than we are, and I thought the manner of the defeats in that previous sequence was absolutely unacceptable. Today was disappointing too. 

But overall I’m just looking at the practical reality of the situation. Despite not winning a game today that clearly we should have won, I still think that over the course of the season we should be good enough for the play-offs. 

That doesn’t mean I’m happy with it, or him. I absolutely think that with this squad we should be challenging for the automatics. 

[gallaghert366@yahoo.com]

6 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

I literally said I was only commenting on the last week, so yes, with that comment I was taking those three games in isolation. Compared to the shite that had gone before and how badly we’d been playing, getting 7 points from 9 in a week and ending up 3 points off third is something I would have taken if it was offered before those three games were played. 

I’m far from a happy clapper and I’m far from happy with Martin overall. I hoped we’d be doing much better than we are, and I thought the manner of the defeats in that previous sequence was absolutely unacceptable. Today was disappointing too. 

But overall I’m just looking at the practical reality of the situation. Despite not winning a game today that clearly we should have won, I still think that over the course of the season we should be good enough for the play-offs. 

That doesn’t mean I’m happy with it, or him. I absolutely think that with this squad we should be challenging for the automatics. 

Sorry, but if you believe that then you are in fantasy land   -  play offs!

[Saint_clark]

Well the good news is at this stage last season Burnley only had 3 points more than we do now. 

The bad news is Leicester somehow have 10 points more than they did and Ipswich have 8 more - both clearly having phenomenal seasons.

[ElTrinidad]

1 hour ago, HedgeEnder said:

I think taking off three of our best players on 63 minutes was pretty much down to RM

Yes mate, I should think the choice of substituions are near enough entirely down to RM, but I dont thing that decision solely cost us the game.

IMO replacing them with Edozie Alcaraz & Fraser should have left us with enough to get the Job done against 23rd place Rotherham. Not to mention those players who were subbed hadn't scored in the previous 60 minutes & we were stuggling to break the opposition down after they changed formation, I don't blame him for switching it up - but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

No doubt Edozie was sub par today for sure but I've been a fan of his work so far this season & Sulemana's work rate had definitely dropped off prior to his substitution.

Personally I wouldnt have taken Arma off but the fitness levels of Kamaldeen and Stuey are apparently still touch and go atm.

The reason we lost today was missed chances & a solid performance from their GK - We had 10 shots on target

[goodymatt]

Just watched Flynn Downes post match interview on the OS. I have to agree with him that booing after such a dominant performance was weird from our fans. Good to hear he’s feeling fitter and putting the weight back on. He has been notably much better in the last couple of games.

i never boo Saints, but can understand why fans might want to voice their frustration when we lost 5-0 at Sunderland for example. Booing today has no justification. How can we expect players to want to make their loans permanent here if this is how we treat them?

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

Well the good news is at this stage last season Burnley only had 3 points more than we do now. 

The bad news is Leicester somehow have 10 points more than they did and Ipswich have 8 more - both clearly having phenomenal seasons.

I think automatic is beyond us now. Its pot luck really, I honestly think with Martin in charge we could finish anywhere between 3rd and 10th. 

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, goodymatt said:

Just watched Flynn Downes post match interview on the OS. I have to agree with him that booing after such a dominant performance was weird from our fans. Good to hear he’s feeling fitter and putting the weight back on. He has been notably much better in the last couple of games.

i never boo Saints, but can understand why fans might want to voice their frustration when we lost 5-0 at Sunderland for example. Booing today has no justification. How can we expect players to want to make their loans permanent here if this is how we treat them?

I wouldn't have booed, but then I haven't been a regular home attendee through all the absolute shite of the last 5ish seasons. I think the people that have attended regularly and seen all the crap they've seen in that time have a right to be unhappy that we haven't beaten Rotherham at home in the Championship. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

How can we expect players to want to make their loans permanent here if this is how we treat them?

If they can’t take a bit of clog, they can fuck off as far as I’m concerned. Go & play for Norwich or some other Noddy club 

[RedArmy]

Any word on the fan that needed medical attention? 

[Morse]

3 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Just watched Flynn Downes post match interview on the OS. I have to agree with him that booing after such a dominant performance was weird from our fans. Good to hear he’s feeling fitter and putting the weight back on. He has been notably much better in the last couple of games.

i never boo Saints, but can understand why fans might want to voice their frustration when we lost 5-0 at Sunderland for example. Booing today has no justification. How can we expect players to want to make their loans permanent here if this is how we treat them?

I couldn't disagree more. These players are paid a fucking fortune to play football. If they are playing shit I'm going to boo. When I don't do my work properly I get it in the ear, why should players be any different? 

Constant approval despite poor performance breeds complacency and is unlikely to improve any situation.  

[Block41 Saint]

23 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Well the good news is at this stage last season Burnley only had 3 points more than we do now. 

The bad news is Leicester somehow have 10 points more than they did and Ipswich have 8 more - both clearly having phenomenal seasons.

Autos have gone. Best chance we have is the play offs and there is absolutely no chance this lot have a play off win in them. 

Financial shitstorm incoming with the covid loan we took out. 

[JRM]

23 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Just watched Flynn Downes post match interview on the OS. I have to agree with him that booing after such a dominant performance was weird from our fans. Good to hear he’s feeling fitter and putting the weight back on. He has been notably much better in the last couple of games.

i never boo Saints, but can understand why fans might want to voice their frustration when we lost 5-0 at Sunderland for example. Booing today has no justification. How can we expect players to want to make their loans permanent here if this is how we treat them?

Poor Flynn, someone book him and open top bus to drive around town tomorrow to celebrate our 80% possession win. 

[Leighsterrr]

23 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Any word on the fan that needed medical attention? 

Someone posted earlier that he was stretchered to the ambulance with an oxygen mask on which I hadn't seen. Hopefully it's better news than it looked. Hope someone can confirm some positive news🤞🏻

[Professor]

When Swansea get above us in the table will it dawn on anyone that we’ve got the wrong end of a bad deal?

[LGTL]

44 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Just watched Flynn Downes post match interview on the OS. I have to agree with him that booing after such a dominant performance was weird from our fans. Good to hear he’s feeling fitter and putting the weight back on. He has been notably much better in the last couple of games.

i never boo Saints, but can understand why fans might want to voice their frustration when we lost 5-0 at Sunderland for example. Booing today has no justification. How can we expect players to want to make their loans permanent here if this is how we treat them?

They deserved booing more for today then they did the Sunderland result. Downes and Martin should stop fucking moaning about the crowd and start winning winnable football matches.

Edited 7 October, 2023 by LGTL

[Andrew Watson]

Why should we be surprised with such a wretched performance,at present looking at mid table mediocrity,which is patently not good enough. A couple of my mates went to the game and both said it was one of the worst performances that they have ever seen from Saints,Rotherham are the whipping boys after all.

Perhaps I am wrong to think that the squad is totally under performing and it really is this mediocre,as for the management.

[PJ]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

He didn't look tired to me from my vantage point in the stadium. Just looked to me like he had been told at half time to reel in his runs...

Exactly what I thought. I was scratching my head - why not run at the defence, like in the first 30 mins? Half their team were on yellow cards as well…odd

Edited 7 October, 2023 by PJ
Typo

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, PJ said:

Exactly what I thought. I was scratching my head - why not run at the defence, like in the first 30 mins? Half their team were on yellow cards as well…odd

Because Martin wants him to hold position and wait for the pass, then pass it on, then move 5 yards wait for the pass, pass it on, move 5 yards...

[Dark Munster]

29 minutes ago, Professor said:

When Swansea get above us in the table will it dawn on anyone that we’ve got the wrong end of a bad deal?

Certainly not Rasmus W. Ankersen, the genius behind his appointment.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Well the good news is at this stage last season Burnley only had 3 points more than we do now. 

The bad news is Leicester somehow have 10 points more than they did and Ipswich have 8 more - both clearly having phenomenal seasons.

I can see Ipswich tailing off - they're full of confidence after their promotion and have a settled side but it doesn't always last

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I can see Ipswich tailing off - they're full of confidence after their promotion and have a settled side but it doesn't always last

It did for us.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

It did for us.

Is Ipswich's squad really as good as we had then though?

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Is Ipswich's squad really as good as we had then though?

I have no idea, but to outsiders our squad probably wouldn't have looked that good.

 

Even we wouldn't have been able to predict, having just been promoted from league one, that the squad had players in it capable of performing at the top end of the Premier League, playing for top 4 sides and even winning a European Championship. 

[Block41 Saint]

6 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Is Ipswich's squad really as good as we had then though?

Winning mentality goes a long way. 

[warsash saint]

The complete over reaction baffles me.  If Smallbone scores that chance in the second half then this WHOLE board will commenting on a nice comfortable win!!

We have have enough chances to win 3 games, their keeper has had a worldy, & they score from from absolutory nothing!

Yeah, i walk out of St Mary's bitterly disappointed with the result like every fan BUT i am not suicidal like most on here with the performance!

 

Edited 7 October, 2023 by warsash saint

[Saint_clark]

6 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

The complete over reaction baffles me.  If Smallbone scores that chance if the second half then this WHOLE board will commenting on a nice comfortable win!!

We have have enough chances to win 3 games, their keeper has had a worldy, & they score from from absolutory nothing!

Yeah, i walk out of St Mary's bitterly disappointed with the result like every fan BUT i am not suicidal like most on here with the performance!

 

Reap what you sow, he hasn't exactly earned himself a lot of forgiving leeway with those four terrible results in a row. 

[Micky]

3 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

The complete over reaction baffles me.  If Smallbone scores that chance in the second half then this WHOLE board will commenting on a nice comfortable win!!

We have have enough chances to win 3 games, their keeper has had a worldy, & they score from from absolutory nothing!

Yeah, i walk out of St Mary's bitterly disappointed with the result like every fan BUT i am not suicidal like most on here with the performance!

 

Absolutely no one is suicidal about the performance, not one poster as far as I can see. However many are rightly disappointed with the result and rightly hacked of with the tactics and substitutions.  The rhetoric from the club and players for this season was that nothing short of promotion would be acceptable, that was the clear aim. We plainly can't compete with the likes of Leicester or Ipswich, and here we are today failing to beat the divisions whipping boys at home. Fans will rightly vent, but no one is suicidal.

[goodymatt]

1 hour ago, Andrew Watson said:

Why should we be surprised with such a wretched performance,at present looking at mid table mediocrity,which is patently not good enough. A couple of my mates went to the game and both said it was one of the worst performances that they have ever seen from Saints,Rotherham are the whipping boys after all.

Perhaps I am wrong to think that the squad is totally under performing and it really is this mediocre,as for the management.

One of the worst performances they have ever seen?! We’ve lost 9-0 twice in recent times. Other than not being clinical, we gave a dominant performance. I’m assuming they didn’t watch the Gillingham, Sunderland, Leicester, Ipswich or Boro games this season? You don’t have to look back far to find a worse performance! We only created more expected goals in 2 fixtures this season  so far - Norwich and Plymouth. 

We can agree that we are underperforming against expectation. We should be challenging for top 2 with our squad and resources. The run of 4 defeats was shocking. Today’s performance was good enough but the result was not.

Edited 7 October, 2023 by goodymatt

[Dan Johnson]

35 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

One of the worst performances they have ever seen?! We’ve lost 9-0 twice in recent times. Other than not being clinical, we gave a dominant performance. I’m assuming they didn’t watch the Gillingham, Sunderland, Leicester, Ipswich or Boro games this season? You don’t have to look back far to find a worse performance! We only created more expected goals in 2 fixtures this season  so far - Norwich and Plymouth. 

We can agree that we are underperforming against expectation. We should be challenging for top 2 with our squad and resources. The run of 4 defeats was shocking. Today’s performance was good enough but the result was not.

Yep, completely agree.

7 Pts from Leeds at home, Stoke away, Rotherham at home. 

Bitterly disappointed to not take the 3pts today, but I'd have taken that points return from those 3 fixtures at the beginning of the season every day of the week!

 

[Bad Wolf]

7 hours ago, Saint NL said:

Just like my local Chinese restaurant 

I generally find Chinese sauces far too sweet.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Dan Johnson said:

Yep, completely agree.

7 Pts from Leeds at home, Stoke away, Rotherham at home. 

Bitterly disappointed to not take the 3pts today, but I'd have taken that points return from those 3 fixtures at the beginning of the season every day of the week!

 

Not when we’ve lost 4 in a row I fucking wouldn’t. 
 

It’s like saying “I’d take 2 putting on that green”, after taking 5 shots to get there. 
 

You certainly wouldn’t take 7 points from the last 7 games, any day of the week 

[IFHP]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Not when we’ve lost 4 in a row I fucking wouldn’t. 
 

It’s like saying “I’d take 2 putting on that green”, after taking 5 shots to get there. 
 

You certainly wouldn’t take 7 points from the last 7 games, any day of the week 

Have to agree.

17 points from 11 games would be the least those fans hoping for a play off spot would have wanted. Average that over a season would get around 71 points and even then that only might get you 6th place.

Those fans keep harping on about how many points Burnley had at this stage last season - we ain’t Burnley and it’s not fucking last season . 

[Streaky]

1 hour ago, IFHP said:

Have to agree.

17 points from 11 games would be the least those fans hoping for a play off spot would have wanted. Average that over a season would get around 71 points and even then that only might get you 6th place.

Those fans keep harping on about how many points Burnley had at this stage last season - we ain’t Burnley and it’s not fucking last season . 

Agree if we don't go up this season it's only going to get harder next with the drop in parachute payments.

I dont think alot of our fans get how important it is to go straight back up and how underwhelming we've been so far. 

Sunderland game was a disgrace and I'm fed up with the the excuses Martin keeps giving in the press, style of play sucks and so boring to watch.

[Wade Garrett]

Downes made a reference to walking football.  I don’t think Martin liked the second half performance  to be fair to him.

Time and again, we immediately played the ball the way we were facing instead of turning into space.  Smallbone was the worst culprit, but he wasn’t alone. 

Martin’s subs on the hour baffled  me a bit.  Stuart Armstrong is brave on the ball and drives forward, Sulemana was having a quiet period, but is a lot better than Edozie.
 

Che Adams annoys the hell out of me.  We put a number of good balls into the box, but he just waits for it.  He never makes a near post run.  I’m glad the new striker is almost fit. 
 

[CB Fry]

6 hours ago, Dan Johnson said:

Yep, completely agree.

7 Pts from Leeds at home, Stoke away, Rotherham at home. 

Bitterly disappointed to not take the 3pts today, but I'd have taken that points return from those 3 fixtures at the beginning of the season every day of the week!

 

Nope.

We'd lost four in a row.

We're supposed to be challenging for automatic promotion. Winning 3 matches in a row is typical for teams who want to go up automatically.

Ipswich have already done it, Leicester have done it twice and more.

Let's not even touch on the fact we have negative goal difference. Pathetic.

The level this manager has got us scrabbling around is oooh we got a point maybe maybe if we're lucky we make the play offs, and expecting the fanbase to be grateful for it.

Not good enough, Russell Martin is failing right now.

 

Edited 8 October, 2023 by CB Fry

[Saint Billy]

Like we didn't see that coming. Predictable lethargic boring football and even the bottom clubs can read and cope with it.

First half was better but it was obvious it wasn't going to last especially when you remove your only threat.

It's very difficult to suffer and watch this shit.

[Morse]

As games slip by and more points are dropped it becomes increasingly obvious our problems are systemic throughout the club, starting with the clowns from Sport Republic and including Wilcox. Anybody thinking that Che Adam's, Mara, and some crock from Sunderland still bed-blocking the treatment table were going to fire us to promotion need to give their heads a wobble. The lack of effort to keep any of our better players that cleared off was telling, as is the quality of those brought in. I still hope that Dragan Solak wants to be the owner of a Premiership club and that he will step in before too long and demand change, but equally he got a fair chunk of his money back from transfers in the summer and he might take that and if not run, at least retreat and close his wallet while watching Martin try to reinvent the wheel. 

[Toussaint]

10 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

If they can’t take a bit of clog, they can fuck off as far as I’m concerned. Go & play for Norwich or some other Noddy club 

Sadly they are already playing for a “noddy club”

[Toussaint]

7 hours ago, Dan Johnson said:

Yep, completely agree.

7 Pts from Leeds at home, Stoke away, Rotherham at home. 

Bitterly disappointed to not take the 3pts today, but I'd have taken that points return from those 3 fixtures at the beginning of the season every day of the week!

 

Over the season so far we have averaged 1.54 points per game, we are sitting 10th in the table with almost a quarter of the season gone. I would not have taken that at the start of the season and don’t find it in any way acceptable now. I’m surprised that Russell is surprised the fans in the stadium aren’t  ok with it. 

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

13 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Over the season so far we have averaged 1.54 points per game, we are sitting 10th in the table with almost a quarter of the season gone. I would not have taken that at the start of the season and don’t find it in any way acceptable now. I’m surprised that Russell is surprised the fans in the stadium aren’t  ok with it. 

...and some of these thin-skinned players that have only been here 5 minutes. The reaction ain't only about yesterday's second half about-turn back into the slow, impotent bunch against one of the leagues most beatable teams, our frustration and anger is borne out of a number of seasons of mostly a shit (expensive) spectacle we put up with. We were ready for a reset, it ain't feeling that way. 

[macca155]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

Downes made a reference to walking football.  I don’t think Martin liked the second half performance  to be fair to him.

Time and again, we immediately played the ball the way we were facing instead of turning into space.  Smallbone was the worst culprit, but he wasn’t alone. 

Martin’s subs on the hour baffled  me a bit.  Stuart Armstrong is brave on the ball and drives forward, Sulemana was having a quiet period, but is a lot better than Edozie.
 

Che Adams annoys the hell out of me.  We put a number of good balls into the box, but he just waits for it.  He never makes a near post run.  I’m glad the new striker is almost fit. 
 

I thought Edozie was good when he came on, he created as much as Sulemana. Armstrong was tiring, Alcaraz was a sensible like for like replacement. Frazer. Aribo, and Mara added nothing.

Adams constantly made runs into space  but not once did Manning, Smallbone, or Downes even try to find him. There lies the main problem. As you say that leaves him static in the box, which isn't his game.

Imagine Beattie, Lambert or Pelle on the end of Sulemana and Walker-Peters's crosses..... game over.

Rotheram's manager realised that they were getting slaughtered on the wings. He made a bold substitution and doubled up on KWP and Sulemana.

That nullified Saints and our manager failed to respond. I'd have brought on Alcaraz early for Smallbone and gone through the middle.

They were lucky to score, we all know that but if you don't press home an advantage, and get complacent, that's what happens.