WBA 0-2 Saints - Match Thread

[beatlesaint]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I would imagine we attract significantly more eyeballs than Bournemouth for example. 

obviously, ive explained what i meant 🙂

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

42 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

Quick stand outs for me from last night.

Stuey Armstrong's chase back and perfect tackle, saving a good goalscoring chance. Yet another Fraser goal, what a player he is turning out to be, please sign him. Brooks goal, he looks class, please sign him. Bazuna's wonder save, almost up there with Gordon Banks back in the day.

Perfect response to crap display and result to Bristol City.

I know a lot of posters say Charles is a kid, it's not his fault he cost so much and we should give him some slack and while I'm not denying there's potentially a great player there, he does need to work on his fitness/change of speed. As a 20 year old, I'd expect him to run all day, but in the second half we was ambling the whole time. There was no change of gear, no real intent to get back. Compare to Stuey's chase back and SC has a lot to learn.

[Totton Saint]

2 hours ago, Secret Site Agent said:

I think he had to shoot off and deliver some Milk Tray.

He came across as very nice person and was articulate

[miserableoldgit]

12 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It was a VAR penalty. One that never existed until a few years ago.

Being a befuddled old git, I find this penalty thing quite confusing, It always used to be "ball to hand - no penalty......hand to ball.....penalty," In other words, if you deliberately touched the ball with your hand it was a pen. I don't think that JS deliberately handled the ball.

[Totton Saint]

58 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Sky are desperate for it to go down to that last match, understandably for viewing figures etc.

But I do get the underlying feeling that Sky are hoping for Leeds to go up so yet another "big club" takes their rightful place at the top table. Its been said before and still rings true, broadcasters dont want the likes of Southampton, Bournemouth, Luton, Palace, Brentford and (despite their hot run currently) Brighton bringing down their viewing figures !

If Saints go up and  we continue to play like we have been of late ,the whole world would want to watch on Sky. Even now I don't think it has dawned on many just how good we are.

[ErwinK1961]

Hinchcliffe and Goodman - two of the worst co-comms going.

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

Being a befuddled old git, I find this penalty thing quite confusing, It always used to be "ball to hand - no penalty......hand to ball.....penalty," In other words, if you deliberately touched the ball with your hand it was a pen. I don't think that JS deliberately handled the ball.

Yes, but linesmen, ( not assistant referees ), also used to put their flags up for every offside. We are watching a different game these days.

[Whitey Grandad]

9 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

Being a befuddled old git, I find this penalty thing quite confusing, It always used to be "ball to hand - no penalty......hand to ball.....penalty," In other words, if you deliberately touched the ball with your hand it was a pen. I don't think that JS deliberately handled the ball.

I always interpreted that as ‘having thought about it’, or ‘deliberated’ over it. Where there is no time to think about it then it cannot be deliberate.

Times have changed and not for the better. The Laws, or rather the interpretation of them, have been modified to suit television and VAR.

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

Yes, but linesmen, ( not assistant referees ), also used to put their flags up for every offside. We are watching a different game these days.

Indeed we are. VAR has ruined the game.

I watched a game the other evening. A cross came in, an attacking player in an offside position tried to head the ball which went out for a corner. As instructed, the assistant didn’t raise his flag. The attacking team scored from the corner. In the good old days the attacking move would have been flagged offside.

[hypochondriac]

56 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

obviously, ive explained what i meant 🙂

Well then I don't think sky categorise clubs in that fashion. Not sure why you think they would. 

[hypochondriac]

27 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

If Saints go up and  we continue to play like we have been of late ,the whole world would want to watch on Sky. Even now I don't think it has dawned on many just how good we are.

Not sure about that. Burnley pissed the league last year playing a similar style and now they are down the bottom and about to be relegated again. There's a giant difference between championship and prem. 

Edited February 17 by hypochondriac

[Fan The Flames]

24 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

Being a befuddled old git, I find this penalty thing quite confusing, It always used to be "ball to hand - no penalty......hand to ball.....penalty," In other words, if you deliberately touched the ball with your hand it was a pen. I don't think that JS deliberately handled the ball.

The rule has now changed to 'making your body unnaturally bigger'. So if the ball hits your hand/arm when it's in a natural position that's ok (unless your teams scores from it), and that’s what happened last night, VAR wouldn't have given it either.

There were a couple of nuts seasons when any ball touching a hand/arm was handball. I think the rules are now in a good place.

[Fan The Flames]

22 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Yes, but linesmen, ( not assistant referees ), also used to put their flags up for every offside. We are watching a different game these days.

They still do in non VAR games. They can't in VAR games because that will benefit the defending side.

But you're right, the game has changed but it always has. I suppose the question is, is it for the better. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

Two really good goals. MOTM for me was Russ (and his coaches)…he managed to restore belief in the lads and whatever he did it paid off in spades in terms of a very professional performance. Don’t know why Manning didn’t play, but let’s just say we didn’t miss him!

[LuckyNumber7]

35 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

 

I watched a game the other evening. A cross came in, an attacking player in an offside position tried to head the ball which went out for a corner. As instructed, the assistant didn’t raise his flag. The attacking team scored from the corner. In the good old days the attacking move would have been flagged offside.

Not sure what you mean by as instructed. They keep their flag down if there is a goal scoring opportunity to allow the situation to unfold in case a goal is scored, then raise their flag. If a goal is scored it can then be checked by VAR to see if it was offside.

In the situation you mention, if the assistant didn't raise his flag, it's because he didn't think he was offside.

[Chez]

13 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Better second half as he kept wide, periods in the first half he was being dragged too central and the gap was huge. But he was a real presence to have in the box for the set pieces etc, it was a good call to select him just for those moments.

Wba were strong on the air at SMS, so that may have been a reason for his selection. If so, shows the management team are doing their research and willing to adjust to counter a threat. Like that.

[Fan The Flames]

3 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Not sure what you mean by as instructed. They keep their flag down if there is a goal scoring opportunity to allow the situation to unfold in case a goal is scored, then raise their flag. If a goal is scored it can then be checked by VAR to see if it was offside.

In the situation you mention, if the assistant didn't raise his flag, it's because he didn't think he was offside.

Or he was in an offside position, but that's not an offence in itself, and hasn't been for around twenty years. He only becomes offside when he comes in contact with the ball.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Not sure what you mean by as instructed. They keep their flag down if there is a goal scoring opportunity to allow the situation to unfold in case a goal is scored, then raise their flag. If a goal is scored it can then be checked by VAR to see if it was offside.

In the situation you mention, if the assistant didn't raise his flag, it's because he didn't think he was offside.

The corner intervened. There was not a goal scored because the corner hadn’t been taken. VAR cannot intervene and say that the corner should not have been given. They can only step in if a goal has been scored in a continuous passage of play.

’as instructed’ relates to not raising their flag until the phase of play is over. Once the corner is given they cannot go back and check a possible offside.

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, Fan The Flames said:

Or he was in an offside position, but that's not an offence in itself, and hasn't been for around twenty years. He only becomes offside when he comes in contact with the ball.

Or makes a play for the ball, as in this case. He made an attempt to head the ball.

[OldNick]

I think the ref was ok last night, especially with the Brummies trying to assert pressure. 

Well payed Saints and great away support again

[Fan The Flames]

30 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Or makes a play for the ball, as in this case. He made an attempt to head the ball.

Yes, a ball not under control by the opposition. 

I haven't seen your incident. Either the lineman got it wrong or he didn't see enough of a challenge for it to be offside. I've been schooled in this by a ref, when coaching my side. You can jump when in an offside position and not be offside.

[Fan The Flames]

33 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The corner intervened. There was not a goal scored because the corner hadn’t been taken. VAR cannot intervene and say that the corner should not have been given. They can only step in if a goal has been scored in a continuous passage of play.

’as instructed’ relates to not raising their flag until the phase of play is over. Once the corner is given they cannot go back and check a possible offside.

But the lino could have raised the flag once the ball went out and the ref changed the corner for offside, if the lino thought it was offside.

[Pamplemousse]

 

 

Great clip from 14.50 of the second goal and our fans

[Jack]

1 hour ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Don’t know why Manning didn’t play, but let’s just say we didn’t miss him!

Yeah fair play to Russ on this, Manning has been awful recently and he’s realised we needed to be tighter at the back.

[sfc4prem]

26 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

 

 

Great clip from 14.50 of the second goal and our fans

Good video, that. Very objective and reasonable.

[Whitey Grandad]

48 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

But the lino could have raised the flag once the ball went out and the ref changed the corner for offside, if the lino thought it was offside.

That’s the point. Many’s the time I’ve seen a corner awarded after an attacker has been actively offside in the build up. VAR doesn’t cover this situation.

”Similarly, if a team is incorrectly awarded a corner kick and they score from it, VAR cannot intervene.”

Edited February 17 by Whitey Grandad

[SaintBobby]

17 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That’s the point. Many’s the time I’ve seen a corner awarded after an attacker has been actively offside in the build up. VAR doesn’t cover this situation.

”Similarly, if a team is incorrectly awarded a corner kick and they score from it, VAR cannot intervene.”

VAR can intervene until the corner is taken, right? The ref can stop play if he wants a VAR check.

[vectraman]

2 hours ago, Totton Saint said:

If Saints go up and  we continue to play like we have been of late ,the whole world would want to watch on Sky. Even now I don't think it has dawned on many just how good we are.

I agree that this season we are a great watch, lots of goals, nice football, exciting even!
However we are up against significantly weaker teams than Saints, hence we look good. Go back up to the top flight and we will be the Swansea or Sheffield Wednesday that we have enjoyed playing this season for the top half teams next season. 
How much money we could afford to spend will be critical to us even having half a chance of staying up - THB, Downes, Fraser, Brooks, Rothwell, and I’m sure some I have forgotten (?) are all on loan. I’d say the first four are absolute must sign players assuming we go up.  
We also absolutely would need another striker to replace Che, and they don’t come cheap. Adam Armstrong is also a proven non prolific scorer at prem level so would almost certainly need upgrading too…

What would the loan 4, plus 2 strikers cost to sign? £100 million +?

Playing possession based football when you’re a top side in the championship is one thing, playing like that against top prem sides - very different proposition. Virtually every playing out from the back mistake would be punished with a goal. Last night we’d have conceded two from errors playing out against a decent prem side. 
 

This season is fun because we are the bigger fish in the pond, go back up and it would be a season long struggle with some absolute hammerings in it. I cringe at times this season at how ‘tight’ we play it out from the back and at the top table we would be relentlessly punished playing like that. 
 

I’m loving this season, we must go back up now, or we will lose most of our decent players and become also rans again like most of the championship.

Fingers crossed for promotion, but I’m really not sure how we’d cope without a big cash spend and a little (lot) of luck!
Lets hope we find out 🤞

Edited February 17 by vectraman

[Wade Garrett]

I couldn’t give a shiny shit whether the penalty would have changed the game or not.  If we had VAR we would have got quite a few decisions over the season as well.
Fact is, we made them look like the limited team they are.  We lorded it over them and we’re going to do the same to the rest of this fucking division between now and the end of the season.

Come on you fucking Saints.

[OldNick]

45 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

Good video, that. Very objective and reasonable.

thanks for that

[ScandiSaint]

Massive win and great response! Started the game brilliantly 👏 

But I really hope we don't have to get something at Leeds away last game or have to go play offs because playing around with it so much in and around our own box like last night makes stressful viewing 😅 and would be hard watch in one game with so much at stake

[david in sweden]

....not to belittle a handsome return to winning form, but it seemed to be a fairly b*g-standard away win, (the like of which we've seen a few times this season).

The return of Stuart Armstrong showed a step-up in midfield quality, and Will Smallbone.. " doing a Prowsey " ..by turning up all over the pitch in every position. 

Ryan Fraser doing .what only he can do, getting a goal out of almost nothing,  and David Brooks stealing a goal with our wish to sign him permanently in the summer.

Bazunu had a quiet night ....until he brought off a breathtaking late save to deny Albion even a late consolation goal. 

 

The rest of the crew put in a shift and it was another 3 points in the bag.     Tuesday night is the " spare game " we have because of the Watford Cup tie, but it's 

a vital one to win and try again to put some space between Leeds and ourselves.  

[Bad Wolf]

Anyone notice that they could have had a penalty at 1-0 that may have changed the game?

[Whitey Grandad]

13 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Anyone notice that they could have had a penalty at 1-0 that may have changed the game?

Ah! I must have missed that. The commentators kept prattling on about something.

[david in sweden]

6 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I always interpreted that as ‘having thought about it’, or ‘deliberated’ over it. Where there is no time to think about it then it cannot be deliberate.

Times have changed and not for the better. The Laws, or rather the interpretation of them, have been modified to suit television and VAR.

there seems to be need for a... "  I couldn't get out of the way "  category, regardless of where the arm is when the ball strikes it.

...." handball type"  incidents less than 6-8 feet from the kicker travel so quickly there is no time to get out of the way regardless of the arm's position. 

but we've all seen them given,  and worse " the kicker" can deliberately play the ball onto the defenders arm and then claim a penalty.   

Throw-ins and corner kicks are won in this manner in almost every game.

Edited February 17 by david in sweden

[Fan The Flames]

5 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That’s the point. Many’s the time I’ve seen a corner awarded after an attacker has been actively offside in the build up. VAR doesn’t cover this situation.

”Similarly, if a team is incorrectly awarded a corner kick and they score from it, VAR cannot intervene.”

And you also see the ball go out and then the lino raise his flag for offside. The linesmen still has a role to play in offside. In the cases you mentioned maybe the attacker wasn't actively offside. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Fan The Flames said:

And you also see the ball go out and then the lino raise his flag for offside. The linesmen still has a role to play in offside. In the cases you mentioned maybe the attacker wasn't actively offside. 

I know offside when I see it. Years of practice with no one running the line.

[Dark Munster]

4 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

I couldn’t give a shiny shit whether the penalty would have changed the game or not.  If we had VAR we would have got quite a few decisions over the season as well.
Fact is, we made them look like the limited team they are.  We lorded it over them and we’re going to do the same to the rest of this fucking division between now and the end of the season.

Come on you fucking Saints.

Good to see that you've got your mojo back after the Bristol match.

[Fan The Flames]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I know offside when I see it. Years of practice with no one running the line.

If you're seeing loads of offsides not given them maybe you don't anymore. 

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

If you're seeing loads of offsides not given them maybe you don't anymore. 

Please don’t try to insult me.

[trousers]

19 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Please don’t try to insult me.

You dozy old twat

(Sorry, couldn't resist 😂😉)

Edited February 17 by trousers

[hasper57saint]

I’ve been saying it for quite a while now. Foxes are due a tumble and today they have. And at home !

[miserableoldgit]

Very fair Baggies. 

 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

 

[eurosaint]

8 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Two really good goals. MOTM for me was Russ (and his coaches)…he managed to restore belief in the lads and whatever he did it paid off in spades in terms of a very professional performance. Don’t know why Manning didn’t play, but let’s just say we didn’t miss him!

I reckon that Russell plays Manning when he expects us to be on the front foot as he is generally pretty good going forward! In tighter games (WBA being one) he prefers to select someone with better defensive qualities (Stephens or Bree) !

if this is true then it kinda makes sense…

 

 

[Badger]

22 hours ago, Pamplemousse said:

 

 

Great clip from 14.50 of the second goal and our fans

Certainly one of the better ones. very fair, and complimentary about us. 

[david in sweden]

14 hours ago, eurosaint said:

I reckon that Russell plays Manning when he expects us to be on the front foot as he is generally pretty good going forward! In tighter games (WBA being one) he prefers to select someone with better defensive qualities (Stephens or Bree) !

if this is true then it kinda makes sense…

 

 

Much the same comment about KWP (who plays every game anyway) . Manning is not the best LB we've ever had and like KWP looks better on the attack.

There are times when we all forget that Kyle is essentially picked as a RB... (again not the best we've ever had in that role), but the whole stadium reacts  

when he goes forward and suddenly becomes a very good right winger, but in terms of  (horses for courses)...  Bree is more of a natural defender.

(No direct criticism of any of the above intended).. but as long as we are winning there is no panic about dropping (anyone) in particular from the squad.

 

My oft-quoted phrase is .... " everyone looks good in a winning side ",  (and even Whitey Grandad and I aren't old enough to recall the old club record). 

Manning will stay out his contract with RM for sure, but with Perraud (presently on loan at Nice) still on the books, and Lavia still to come on line, there will 

be some head-scratching over the LB role next season, but I fear that one casualty maybe Jake Vokins.  A much underrated  " leftie"  who can play anywhere.

[RedWillie]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

Certainly one of the better ones. very fair, and complimentary about us. 

He did one on our home game  as well. One of the better blogger thingies you'll find.

[JRM]

On 17/02/2024 at 13:25, sfc4prem said:

Good video, that. Very objective and reasonable.

Yep very decent, made our support look good, I'm a vlog convert 

[miserableoldgit]

3 hours ago, Badger said:

Certainly one of the better ones. very fair, and complimentary about us. 

I've watched three or four Baggies vids of the game and they have all been fair and realistic. They have all said that Saints well deserved the win, how good we were, that they all thought that we would get automatic promotion and that the Saints fans were outstanding......and not one moaned about the "penalty".......