Blackburn 0-0 Saints - Match Thread

[Harry_SFC]

23 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Not forgetting Perraud of course.

I would have Perraud as first choice if he was here. Martin couldn't wait to get rid of him though so he could bring in his best mate. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

58 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

So that's a no to Manning then.

In a settled back four, with none of this being too clever arse, Manning would do a job. Yes he's limited, but overall a better option than playing a central defender there.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Harry_SFC said:

I would have Perraud as first choice if he was here. Martin couldn't wait to get rid of him though so he could bring in his best mate. 

Perraud played in pre-season and also the cup loss to Gillingham, Manning was signed weeks before.

It was Perraud who wanted out, he was one of those who saw himself as having a 'PL Market' but actually didn't have a PL market. Salisu was another.

[LGTL]

Just back. Fucking long trip for a 0-0 that’s for sure.

Rothwell and Brooks are really odd ones. Brooks is clearly talented and Rothwell has scored some important goals but they’ve really disrupted our system, along with Stephens being told to try and play like prime John Stones. It really has been an odd few months where we’ve tried to solve problems that didn’t exist, and completely fucked us over in the process. 

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Just back. Fucking long trip for a 0-0 that’s for sure.

Rothwell and Brooks are really odd ones. Brooks is clearly talented and Rothwell has scored some important goals but they’ve really disrupted our system, along with Stephens being told to try and play like prime John Stones. It really has been an odd few months where we’ve tried to solve problems that didn’t exist, and completely fucked us over in the process. 

Good summary, that's exactly how I see us since Feb. We've tried to fix issues that weren't issues in the first place.

I like Brooks as a player, but he doesn't suit us and does not fit into the team. I think someone more direct and quick would have been a better fit. We don't seem to know where to play Rothwell either, he's rubbish as a deeper CM - absolute shite. We benefit more when he's in that driving role in and around the 10, but for some reason we like him to play deeper. Like you say though, we didn't need him and I'm not sure what problem he was supposed to solve.

We could have put Rothwells wages down on a centre forward and it would have been more fruitful. A really odd January where we ignored our main issues and added players to fix the issues we didn't have.

[Harry_SFC]

18 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Perraud played in pre-season and also the cup loss to Gillingham, Manning was signed weeks before.

It was Perraud who wanted out, he was one of those who saw himself as having a 'PL Market' but actually didn't have a PL market. Salisu was another.

Didn't realise he wanted out. Doesn't look like the Nice move has worked for him either. I'd still have him back next season if he wants to put the effort in. 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

8 hours ago, captainchris said:

AA is not very good as a CF, why does RM persist in playing him there he keeps making the same mistakes over and over…

As for Mr untouchable in goal, this is getting silly now…

Martin is far too attached to his favourites to be successful.

After a game, it's interesting to look at the comments on the team selection before the match. Captainchris and a lot of us know that AA is ineffective as a CF. Play him in the role where he scores all his goals. We all know it. Why can't Russ see it? JS in the Stones type role doesn't work either.

Once again, really annoyed at the lack of urgency. Blackburn were shit yet we only had one/two proper shots on goal. Only Edozie looked like creating something. 

[trousers]

33 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Just back. Fucking long trip for a 0-0 that’s for sure.

Rothwell and Brooks are really odd ones. Brooks is clearly talented and Rothwell has scored some important goals but they’ve really disrupted our system, along with Stephens being told to try and play like prime John Stones. It really has been an odd few months where we’ve tried to solve problems that didn’t exist, and completely fucked us over in the process. 

 

26 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Good summary, that's exactly how I see us since Feb. We've tried to fix issues that weren't issues in the first place.

I like Brooks as a player, but he doesn't suit us and does not fit into the team. I think someone more direct and quick would have been a better fit. We don't seem to know where to play Rothwell either, he's rubbish as a deeper CM - absolute shite. We benefit more when he's in that driving role in and around the 10, but for some reason we like him to play deeper. Like you say though, we didn't need him and I'm not sure what problem he was supposed to solve.

We could have put Rothwells wages down on a centre forward and it would have been more fruitful. A really odd January where we ignored our main issues and added players to fix the issues we didn't have.

 

[S-Clarke]

17 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Didn't realise he wanted out. Doesn't look like the Nice move has worked for him either. I'd still have him back next season if he wants to put the effort in. 

I think both he and ABK have had a bit of a wakeup call, they both wanted out as they thought they were better/PL quality, but neither have played at PSV or Nice respectivly.

(Granted, ABK has had injuries, but he's only played 9 times for PSV and that's a shit league).

The only thing dictating them staying with us are the wages - we will have to cut our wage bill enormously next year, if ABK/Perraud are on shit loads then we'll probably have to beg someone to take them again.

Edited April 6 by S-Clarke

[Holmes_and_Watson]

45 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Perraud played in pre-season and also the cup loss to Gillingham, Manning was signed weeks before.

It was Perraud who wanted out, he was one of those who saw himself as having a 'PL Market' but actually didn't have a PL market. Salisu was another.

Martin played Perraud at centre half. At the end of the game praised some, but not him. He got lumped into those who might have too high an opinion of themselves. A later comment from Martin, said with a smile or a chuckle, dismissed Perraud as not being at all suitable for his system.

It was such a binning off of a player that, considering the positives Martin brought to others at the time, strongly indicated off the field issues.

Lots of cliques and wantaways last season, so I concluded it was a legacy of that, that had carried over with some players into the new regime. I quite liked Perraud, and his effort. He got moaned at by a previous manager for his "outcomes" which were no worse than a lot of others at the time.

Just another deal that didn't work out for a number of reasons as we slid down.

[Saint Fan CaM]

39 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Martin played Perraud at centre half. At the end of the game praised some, but not him. He got lumped into those who might have too high an opinion of themselves. A later comment from Martin, said with a smile or a chuckle, dismissed Perraud as not being at all suitable for his system.

It was such a binning off of a player that, considering the positives Martin brought to others at the time, strongly indicated off the field issues.

Lots of cliques and wantaways last season, so I concluded it was a legacy of that, that had carried over with some players into the new regime. I quite liked Perraud, and his effort. He got moaned at by a previous manager for his "outcomes" which were no worse than a lot of others at the time.

Just another deal that didn't work out for a number of reasons as we slid down.

Agreed. Very difficult to judge a single player during the shit show our previous season in the Prem turned out to be. Always thought Perraud was no worse than most others in the squad and believe his exclusion by Martin was engineered to get his mate Manning in.

[Dr Who?]

Terrible. Nothing was working, the passing was not sharp at all. Balls in the air rather than on the ground. short hospital balls with no pace on. Balls wide straight out of play. Passing direct to opposition. High balls to Fraser! Do not think Martin had a clue what to do so made loads of changes. We never settled into any kind of method of playing, it was a bit shambolic, everyone of them looked tired and leggy, sloppy and just not on it if you ask me. Play like that and we will get nowhere in the playoffs. Just fingers crossed 🤞 we hit some form before the 2nd week of May!

Edited April 6 by Dr Who?

[Dr Who?]

15 hours ago, JRM said:

We didn't sell out , loads left in upper tier 

No we did not. And some were very lucky to avoid that ‘show’.

Edited April 6 by Dr Who?

[Dr Who?]

9 hours ago, Saint NL said:

Nearly conceded a long ranger, at that end where LeTiss smashed one in

Other end. 

[SaintStinger]

7 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Perraud played in pre-season and also the cup loss to Gillingham, Manning was signed weeks before.

It was Perraud who wanted out, he was one of those who saw himself as having a 'PL Market' but actually didn't have a PL market. Salisu was another.

I don't believe he played in any pre season games as he was injured from the end of the previous season.

[austsaint]

59 minutes ago, SaintStinger said:

I don't believe he played in any pre season games as he was injured from the end of the previous season.

That's my recall too.   Serious ankle injury from memory.   Perraud may have wanted out, but Martin didn't make it easy for him when he regained fitness, with that out-of-position Cup game about his only opportunity.   He was solid enough for us at Prem level, has a sweet left foot and got stuck in.  As a specialist LB he would have been a real asset this season - a definite upgrade on Manning.

[StrangelyBrown]

8 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

After a game, it's interesting to look at the comments on the team selection before the match. Captainchris and a lot of us know that AA is ineffective as a CF. Play him in the role where he scores all his goals. We all know it. Why can't Russ see it? JS in the Stones type role doesn't work either.

Once again, really annoyed at the lack of urgency. Blackburn were shit yet we only had one/two proper shots on goal. Only Edozie looked like creating something. 

And somehow Edozie won't get a look in for the next game...

[Chez]

8 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Martin played Perraud at centre half. At the end of the game praised some, but not him. He got lumped into those who might have too high an opinion of themselves. A later comment from Martin, said with a smile or a chuckle, dismissed Perraud as not being at all suitable for his system.

It was such a binning off of a player that, considering the positives Martin brought to others at the time, strongly indicated off the field issues.

Lots of cliques and wantaways last season, so I concluded it was a legacy of that, that had carried over with some players into the new regime. I quite liked Perraud, and his effort. He got moaned at by a previous manager for his "outcomes" which were no worse than a lot of others at the time.

Just another deal that didn't work out for a number of reasons as we slid down.

Slow and technically limited fullback that doesn't want to be here. Can't wait for his return.

[Harry_SFC]

3 minutes ago, Chez said:

Slow and technically limited fullback that doesn't want to be here. Can't wait for his return.

He has his limitations but would he be better than what we have in that position in the Championship? Definitely. 

[austsaint]

33 minutes ago, Chez said:

Slow and technically limited fullback that doesn't want to be here. Can't wait for his return.

You've never liked him Chez.   Agree with most of your assessments, but not this one.   Perraud has some pace; was technically ok at Prem level and would be a very good performer in the Championship.  Not clear cut that he wanted out for any other reason than Martin didn't fancy him and had Manning in his back pocket.    I don't expect him to return under any circumstances but I'm sure we would have been better off  with a back four of KWP, THB, Bednarek and Perraud.

[Farmer Saint]

So been doing important stuff and not had time to read about what happened, so I assume everyone is happy cos we done a clean sheet? Everyone has been complaining about the defence and keeper so I assume Martino tightened things up as we were playing the League's top scorer?

Edited April 7 by Farmer Saint

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

7 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

So been doing important stuff and not had time to read about what happened, so I assume everyone is happy cos we done a clean sheet? Everyone has been complaining about the defence and keeper so I assume Martino tightened things up as we were playing the League's top scorer?

Just seen the 1 minute highlights on Sky. AA just had to score. Also Baz saved a couple low down. He was practising those before the match!

Their top scorer went down after 15 minutes holding his leg and didn't seem so quick after that.

[Chez]

49 minutes ago, austsaint said:

You've never liked him Chez.   Agree with most of your assessments, but not this one.   Perraud has some pace; was technically ok at Prem level and would be a very good performer in the Championship.  Not clear cut that he wanted out for any other reason than Martin didn't fancy him and had Manning in his back pocket.    I don't expect him to return under any circumstances but I'm sure we would have been better off  with a back four of KWP, THB, Bednarek and Perraud.

I honestly liked him. Gave his absolute all in every game. I respect that a lot. You can't ask more. I didn't rate him, but that's because he was not a quality player, which in the Prem is essential. What I disliked, and what frustrated me a shit load, was that we bought him and not someone better.  I was annoyed at just how poor our scouting was to scour the world and then come up with him. That is why we went down. Poor recruitment over an extended period, All be it hamstrung by limited finances.

"Some pace".  I'm not having that. You weren't at the Bournemouth away game then, where he got made to look like one of the slowest full backs we have ever had. I was sat with with four neutral fans in the Bournemouth stand. He was playing right in front of us and every one of them remarked (separately) on how slow our left back was. 

"Technically ok". Boy, the word "ok" is carrying a lot of weight there. Manning is superior technically and he's a championship standard footballer. I don't think you really analysed his game. What he could and couldn't do with a football. Technically limited is the perfect description of him (when assessing him as at Prem level).

I said all last season that Peraud was a championship standard player. That's our level now, so if he comes back and we can't loan him out, he will do ok. I've said this week that we need more grit and hussle. He will give us that.

Edited April 7 by Chez

[austsaint]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

I honestly liked him. Gave his absolute all in every game. I respect that a lot. You can't ask more. I didn't rate him, but that's because he was not a quality player, which in the Prem is essential. What I disliked, and what frustrated me a shit load, was that we bought him and not someone better.  I was annoyed at just how poor our scouting was to scour the world and then come up with him. That is why we went down. Poor recruitment over an extended period, Allen it hamstrung by limited finances.

"Some pace".  I'm not having that. You weren't at the Bournemouth away game then, where he got made to look like one of the slowest full backs we have ever had. I was sat with with four neutral fans in the Bournemouth stand. He was playing right in front of us and every one of them remarked (separately) on how slow our left back was. 

"Technically ok". Boy, the word "ok" is carrying a lot of weight there. Manning is superior technically and he's a championship standard footballer. I don't think you really analysed his game. What he could and couldn't do with a football. Technically limited is the perfect description of him (when assessing him as at Prem level).

I said all last season that Peraud was a championship standard player. That's our level now, so if he comes back and we can't loan him out, he will do ok.

He certainly lacked quality compared to his predecessor, Ryan Bertrand.    I take your point that the recruitment staff should have eyed off someone better - it's a been a trend though, hasn't it.......Ing's not replaced by equivalent quality; Romeu another example.  I wasn't at the Bournemouth game - I'm a Hampshire ex-pat who gets back to the UK once a year.   I think that was the game Perraud copped a serious ankle injury.      I do remember him getting up and down the flank with good pace in several games;  there are many wide attacking players in the Prem who will make many full-backs look short on pace.    Manning superior technically?   We differ there.    You might recall Perraud regularly displayed a gun left foot with goals at the highest level and also high standard crosses and free kicks.

You call Perraud a Championship standard player - I'd argue he was like most of our Prem side at the end of the 22/23 season - just short of Prem standard, but very likely to be very useful in the Championship - Lavia, Livramento, KWP and Ward-Prowse excepted.   How do you think Manning would have gone in the Prem that season?

Anyway, it's an interesting discussion.  I've got a feeling that Meghoma is going to be a very good LB, and he represents the future of the Club.

 

 

 

[ErwinK1961]

1 hour ago, austsaint said:

You've never liked him Chez.   Agree with most of your assessments, but not this one.   Perraud has some pace; was technically ok at Prem level and would be a very good performer in the Championship.  Not clear cut that he wanted out for any other reason than Martin didn't fancy him and had Manning in his back pocket.    I don't expect him to return under any circumstances but I'm sure we would have been better off  with a back four of KWP, THB, Bednarek and Perraud.

He wanted out the moment we got relegated.

[Pamplemousse]

The issue with Perraud is he isn't as good as he think he is and understandably we want to recover as much back as possible for him, and French clubs can't afford him.

There will be a similar problem with Sulemana. £30M!!!!

[Tamesaint]

10 hours ago, Dr Who? said:

Terrible. Nothing was working, the passing was not sharp at all. Balls in the air rather than on the ground. short hospital balls with no pace on. Balls wide straight out of play. Passing direct to opposition. High balls to Fraser! Do not think Martin had a clue what to do so made loads of changes. We never settled into any kind of method of playing, it was a bit shambolic, everyone of them looked tired and leggy, sloppy and just not on it if you ask me. Play like that and we will get nowhere in the playoffs. Just fingers crossed 🤞 we hit some form before the 2nd week of May!

I agree entirely but don't forget the wind was very strong yesterday. Both teams were affected with balls going out of play or being hit too strongly / weakly. A pity we didn't change our style a little to take the wind into account. 

I thought thr team were lacking in confidence. A scappy 1 nil win would have done wonders. I hope we can get at least that on Tuesday night. 

[StrangelyBrown]

2 hours ago, austsaint said:

You've never liked him Chez.   Agree with most of your assessments, but not this one.   Perraud has some pace; was technically ok at Prem level and would be a very good performer in the Championship.  Not clear cut that he wanted out for any other reason than Martin didn't fancy him and had Manning in his back pocket.    I don't expect him to return under any circumstances but I'm sure we would have been better off  with a back four of KWP, THB, Bednarek and Perraud.

I'm with Chez here, for a RM team Perrauds technical limitations and style of play would be completely unsuited. Under a different system he might be useful, but I can see why RM didn't want him.

[Fabrice29]

14 hours ago, markr27 said:

As I said in another thread, what worried me today was that Saints were ooking for a out of position centre back, whom is playing at left back and wandering into central midfield, to be our main creative genius.

 

It worked a treat, didn't it.

This isn't true though? Our main creative genius are supposed to be the ones ahead of him that failed to perform. His role in the team is to help build from a back 3 and rotate possession into those ahead of him. If we wanted creativity from our left back, then Manning would be a good shout considering he was literally creating chances consistently from left back, but he was widely ridiculed on here too. 

[Saint Marky]

15 hours ago, Turkish said:

We really arent. We have an identity and a philosophy, not all shit creeks are bad one. Imagine being up a shit creek where you’re playing entertaining football, proud of what you’re seeing. Imagine that and cheer up you sad fuck

I agree Turks, Schitts Creek was pretty good on the whole.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

This isn't true though? Our main creative genius are supposed to be the ones ahead of him that failed to perform. His role in the team is to help build from a back 3 and rotate possession into those ahead of him. If we wanted creativity from our left back, then Manning would be a good shout considering he was literally creating chances consistently from left back, but he was widely ridiculed on here too. 

Whatever the role is, it's just not working. Why can't THB step into midfield to provide that role?

[Dr Who?]

Also the after match comments and something I said myself directly after the game, is that RM cannot seem to get the balance between defence and attack right. Cleans sheets or scoring goals and conceding. It seemed to me like a bit of a cocky ‘you can’t have it both ways, so what do you want’, when really he has the players at his disposal to execute the balance. It is also his job to work this out. 

The concerns that I have is that there are 7 games left until the playoffs and RM seems even further from knowing is best starting 11, the formation to play and the best style of play to win games. This is a big concern, as he has even adapted his russball a little. 

I do not know the answer to this as I am not a football league manager, but with the the subs yesterday and the formation changes and where players were playing at the end, I do think RM is losing the plot, and he needs to find it pretty sharpish as the season will be over in a month and the playoffs ready to go. 

Edited April 7 by Dr Who?

[Dr Who?]

29 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

Also the after match comments and something I said myself directly after the game, is that RM cannot seem to get the balance between defence and attack right. Cleans sheets or scoring goals and conceding. It seemed to me like a bit of a cocky ‘you can’t have it both ways, so what do you want’, when really he has the players at his disposal to execute the balance. It is also his job to work this out. 

The concerns that I have is that there are 7 games left until the playoffs and RM seems even further from knowing is best starting 11, the formation to play and the best style of play to win games. This is a big concern, as he has even adapted his russball a little. 

I do not know the answer to this as I am not a football league manager, but with the the subs yesterday and the formation changes and where players were playing at the end, I do think RM is losing the plot, and he needs to find it pretty sharpish as the season will be over in a month and the playoffs ready to go. 

Saying the above, I have seen us away 8 times this season and the first clean sheet was yesterday, but that was for overall playing football the worst I have seen for being disjointed. I went to Sunderland as well, where every time Sunderland attached they looked like Barcelona from a few years back. We still played football well and that was a bit of a freak result. I honestly cannot put my finger on it as things were going so well until we added even more players to an already complicated choosing the best starting team and formation, in January. To me that is where on paper it all started going wrong and our form nosedived. That and drawing Liverpool in the cup! 

Edited April 7 by Dr Who?

[Charlie Wayman]

Our failure yesterday was entirely down to the midfield. Downes did his job splendidly but Aribo and Rothwell were totally ineffective as creative attacking midfielders. Both seemed content to hang about midfield near opposition players, not bothering to lose their markers and find spaces so that they could receive the ball and turn and run forward. As a result when in desperation the CBs forced a pass to try and get things going the ball was more often than not promptly returned to them at pace especially from Rothwell. Thus the front three were pretty much isolated except for occasional hopeful long balls. Some credit to Stevens for recognising the problem and trying now and then to take up a more central position to get the ball forward down the channels. He is the captain though and could have and should have reminded those players of their responsibilies on the pitch.

It was stroll in the park for Blackburn, all they had to do was hold their shape to blunt any efforts from us and then run at us on the counter when they retrieved the ball.

Some people have a better opinion of Aribo than I but if you watch him carefully what you see is a player who reacts to situations rather than anticipates them, often like a rabbit caught in headlights;  as a result he is nearly always a yard or two too late to get to the ball. It seems to me that he doesn't read the game well and all too often is guilty of ball watching. Apart from an eye for a goal now and then Rothwell offers nothing and like many of you I wonder why he is here at all.

Edited April 7 by Charlie Wayman

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

2 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

As a result when in desperation the CBs forced a pass to try and get things going

 

2 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

as a result he is nearly always a yard or two too late to get to the ball

Interesting you should say this. On a couple of occasions, THS rifled a pass to Aribo which even Usain Bolt wouldn't have got to, and when Aribo didn't reach the pass, THB waved his arms in despair. Perhaps you're right. Aribo has no anticipation or not on the same wave length as his teammates.

[bangkoksaint]

16 hours ago, Dr Who? said:

No we did not. And some were very lucky to avoid that ‘show’.

I live in Cheshire and arrived back from a cruise yesterday morning into Southampton. I made the agonising decision not to go in case we didn’t get back in time. Looks like I called it right!!

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Aribo MK2.0 is still a bit of a mix.

There are times where he'll take a very safe option, ignoring far better options (he's not alone). He can make his pass, then makes sure it's not coming back to him by waving it away, or merging into his marker.

But moments later he's picked out good space, or tackled well or supported the attack.

He's another one who struggles to play his natural game in Martin's system. Being asked to be on the end of any pass, while drawing out players to create angles, to supporting others, to making runs or decisive passes. You get the feeling he'd rather just be a little further up to play the supporting role in a more standard system.

I had to check the team sheet to see if Rothwell had started the game. Anonymous. It could be his role was to provide some deeper support, while Stephens got a much freer role. I saw Stephens in forward areas that you'd expect someone with Rothwell's shooting boots to be.

 

[davefizzy14]

Yesterday was another game we should have won comfortably. But it's a point and a clean sheet. Need a big performance on Tuesday - COYR 🙂

Edited April 7 by davefizzy14

[Oldandtired]

1 hour ago, davefizzy14 said:

Yesterday was another game we should have won comfortably. But it's a point and a clean sheet. Need a big performance on Tuesday - COYR 🙂

Could have cut and pasted this so many times this season, that's the disappointment

[Dman]

I don't get the opportunity to go to as many away games as I would like (actually, probably wouldn't) anymore, but Blackburn being one of the very few new gorunds for me, I couldn't resist. 

It really struck home at how poor / flat / pointless our support is. Good numbers, but fucking hell 70% of them are happy to stand in silence and turn their nose up at anyone trying to make any noise. 

Not trying to be voice of the fans, but its actually pointless with most of you being there. Pathetic. 

[Charlie Wayman]

20 hours ago, Dman said:

I don't get the opportunity to go to as many away games as I would like (actually, probably wouldn't) anymore, but Blackburn being one of the very few new gorunds for me, I couldn't resist. 

It really struck home at how poor / flat / pointless our support is. Good numbers, but fucking hell 70% of them are happy to stand in silence and turn their nose up at anyone trying to make any noise. 

Not trying to be voice of the fans, but its actually pointless with most of you being there. Pathetic. 

Do you not think that this is a tad unfair? I have not been to an away game this season either but watched most on screen. For most matches the away support has been extremely vocal often drowning out the home support and that comes across clearly on screen. Maybe you just picked the wrong game to attend? It was an absolute bore fest so not surprising that the away support was subdued especially as their season long hopes of a dramatic and immediate return to the PL appear to have been dashed by the recent string of dispiriting performances. If there is nothing to shout about they won't shout and as for trying to lift the team, they've tried that all season with b*gger-all effect.

We are all pretty p*ssed off with the current situation aren't we?

Edited April 9 by Charlie Wayman