Will Still Poll - Keep or Replace?

[Fabrice29]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

That's a terrible point. They haven't got our players. 

So the players are indicators and not the managers English football experience? Exactly what my ‘terrible’ point was.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

But after 6 games you can't say that, in my opinion.

I think when you look at the number of managers we've switched around in the last 3-4 years, you have to seriously look deeper at this point. 1) who is making the picks, and 2) are there any core players who over-hang all managers?

Those two points are where the problem is, and as long as they don't change, changing the manager will make absolutely zero difference other than spinning us into more and more and more financial debt.

6 games with a whole pre season and £60m spent...

if it aint working it aint working

[Baird of the land]

If they delay longer than the end of the month (and there is no drastic upturn) it’ll be in real danger of being too late by the time they sack him.

[Badger]

2 hours ago, stfrancisofbenali said:

No self-respecting club replaces a new manager after only six games, especially a kid who’s so new to the game. 

 

1 hour ago, beatlesaint said:

You cant replace him yet, thats ridiculous. 

BUT, he will need time to adapt to not only the Championship but managing in England. The French league is nothing like ours.

These may be reasons to have some sympathy for the position Still is in, but what does it say about the recruitment in the first place, and the dickhead who appointed him.

It also underlines the simple fact; the poor fucker is completely out of his depth. 

[hypochondriac]

I think we need to give him a few more games to see if he can turn it around. What we have seen so far is totally unacceptable though with no sign it's going to be turned around. I don't know what system he is trying to play. We wasted a load of games playing five at the back when we never played that in preseason and now in a four if anything we look worse. Our defence is a disgrace given our financial resources and the fact we can't create any chances at all with the quality of players we have is baffling. Azaz, Fellows, Downs, Jander, Robinson, Edozie, Sesay, Matsuki, Scienza had nothing to do with last year's debacle. The manager should be able to put something out using those players to create more than one or two half chances over an entire game.

Edited yesterday at 11:40 by hypochondriac

[Badger]

23 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Should we have stuck with Jones? Martin last season.......maybe should have given the job full time to Rusk?

 

If it aint working, it aint working

People calling for the next three games, .. if he hasn’t done it by Derby, next international break etc ..

It  reminds me we went through the same with Lego last season when it was obvious to all but the imbeciles at SR that he was hopelessly out of his depth and wouldn’t turn things round as long as he had a hole in his arse. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Badger said:

People calling for the next three games, .. if he hasn’t done it by Derby, next international break etc ..

It  reminds me we went through the same with Lego last season when it was obvious to all but the imbeciles at SR that he was hopelessly out of his depth and wouldn’t turn things round as long as he had a hole in his arse. 

I think the reason to give still a few more games imo is because the new players have only really had a couple of games and some even less than that. I think we need a bit more evidence how his style- whatever it is -translates to some of these new players.

Edited yesterday at 11:47 by hypochondriac

[Dusic]

Getting rid of him is ludicrous but demanding better and being angry at the pwasted opportunity is absolutely fair.

[Osvaldorama]

Problem is, in this league, giving it a few games could be the difference between making the playoffs and missing out altogether. 

 

I can see both sides really. I understand how bad it is to change yet again. It does feel too soon and knee jerk. 
 

But as I said in my objective assessment post.. things are as bad as it gets. There are no positives of his tenure so far. And he doesn’t have the CV to say he can fix this. 
 

We have a lot of money and firepower for this level, this season. We can’t waste it. Otherwise we’ll be in a proper mess. 

[hypochondriac]

A mate of mine made a good point today. We got rid of a lot of our proven championship performers from our starting 11 but the replacements have been worse thus far. Smallbone, Aribo, Edozie, Bree have shown they can do a half decent job in this league. I understand why we have replaced them all but I do wonder how sensible a strategy it has been.

[Saint_Tony]

He needs to buck up his ideas fast. Slow build up and cross after cross into the box just doesn't work. There's no one to attack the ball with any aggression. He's got plenty of new players so should be given a few more games to get things going, but it looks unlikely. As others have mentioned though, time is running out. The autos are out of reach already so it will be a race for the playoffs. It only takes one decent run to get in the mix. 6 games until November and a minimum of 4 wins required, which seems unlikely right now given the level of opposition we will be facing.

[Badger]

19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I think the reason to give still a few more games imo is because the new players have only really had a couple of games and some even less than that. I think we need a bit more evidence how his style- whatever it is -translates to some of these new players.

It’s very commendable to want to give him a sporting chance, and give him longer for the reasons you give. But I’ve not seen anything in our performances to suggest he will take advantage of the better players. And there is no track record in this league or country  to back him up.*

* await the Ligue 1 comparisons. Which is fine. Perhaps he’d be better off managing there. 

[stfrancisofbenali]

23 minutes ago, Saint_Tony said:

He needs to buck up his ideas fast. Slow build up and cross after cross into the box just doesn't work. There's no one to attack the ball with any aggression. He's got plenty of new players so should be given a few more games to get things going, but it looks unlikely. As others have mentioned though, time is running out. The autos are out of reach already so it will be a race for the playoffs. It only takes one decent run to get in the mix. 6 games until November and a minimum of 4 wins required, which seems unlikely right now given the level of opposition we will be facing.

The autos are out of reach already? We’re six games into the season and unlike the Prem, all clubs currently in the top 6 will have a bad spell. Four wins on the bounce in this league and you’re in contention again. 

[Harry_SFC]

He needs to start showing some balls. Dropping the keeper and both CB's would be a good start. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

He needs to start showing some balls. Dropping the keeper and both CB's would be a good start. 

Agree with dropping Baz. McCarthy needs to be in for the next couple of games. Another poor showing from Baz at the weekend and fans will be really on his back. Not sure about replacing both Stephens and THB at once. We have five recognised centre backs and they are all pretty limited. Never thought I would say this but think Stephens would be the one to play, but he needs a dominant player alongside him, which we don't seem to have at the moment. THB needs to stop thinking he is the next Beckenbauer and just actually defend.

[saintant]

55 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Problem is, in this league, giving it a few games could be the difference between making the playoffs and missing out altogether. 

 

I can see both sides really. I understand how bad it is to change yet again. It does feel too soon and knee jerk. 
 

But as I said in my objective assessment post.. things are as bad as it gets. There are no positives of his tenure so far. And he doesn’t have the CV to say he can fix this. 
 

We have a lot of money and firepower for this level, this season. We can’t waste it. Otherwise we’ll be in a proper mess. 

I don't see the desperation to make the play-offs never mind top two as we wouldn't be ready to try again in the PL and it would likely be another disastrous season ahead. To me we need a gradual reset and a little time to build a good side with good habits which is why I am prepared to give Will Still more time plus the new players also need time to find their feet which always happens when moving to new clubs - it's just not new team mates and new style of football it also involves relocating etc etc. However, if there are no signs of progress after another 10 games then questions will have to be asked and decisions made.

[LGTL]

I voted for him to go as we’ve all been here before and know exactly how it ends, so pointless wasting time.

However, I feel a bit sorry for him as he’s a 32 year old inexperienced manager in this country. He’s younger than some of the players FFS, has never managed in England and regardless of any tactical ability, that’s tough. So naturally, you’d expect the club to fill those positions around him with experience. Instead, we get Adam Lallana, a 37 year old ex player with absolutely zero managerial experience except being among a team who presided over a 12 point season. And Paul Trollope, a Championship nobody last seen relegated with Luton. 

It’s fucking shambolic all round. 

[Dr. Kucho]

I was pleased when we signed Still and looking forward to the new season. But like others have said, this season has started disappointing and I can’t figure out why.

We signed some good championship players in Azaz and Fellows, Charles returned and THB, Manning, Armstrong, Stewart etc aren’t too bad either. 

In his pre and post match press conferences Still says exactly what we often think and can identify where it went wrong. But watching us against the Skates and its so frustrating. 

We can’t continue to hire and fire managers whilst at other clubs they do decent jobs (Still at the French and Belgium clubs, Juric at some Italian clubs, Jones at Luton and Charlton). Makes you wonder if it’s something else that causes them to fail. 

That said I voted to give him more time, but results have to come very soon or this season isn’t going to be a lot of fun. 

[Football Special]

2 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

If they delay longer than the end of the month (and there is no drastic upturn) it’ll be in real danger of being too late by the time they sack him.

It's possible we slip into bottom 3 next weekend with a defeat , I think that could be a tipping point 

[SouSaint]

Not seeing any improvements under him, if anything we've got worse game by game. 

It's pointless sacking him though because the biggest issue at the club are the people running the show. We will continue to be a shitshow while Sport Republic own this club, it's laughable that most fans seem happy to be spoon fed their bullshit every 12 months when they try and reset. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Can’t keep sacking managers. 
 

Deserves until Xmas, with “deserves” doing a lot of heavy lifting there. Long heavy season, and our squad strength should have us in and around the play offs by then. If not, depending on who is available, and how we’re playing, I’d make a decision then. Unless we shit the bed next month, I’d give him longer. 

[James]

My main issue with Still is that there is zero evidence of what he is even trying to do. We started the season playing 5 at the back as he “didn’t have players” and we were, at best, average. Since he’s “had the players” we’ve been god awful really. At least with Martin, like him or not, it was almost immediately obviously what he wanted to do. Now, we can debate how wise it was to adopt the RM style but it was at least clear what it was. With Still it’s totally confused, he wants to get crosses into the box but the half decent strikers we have are totally unsuited to that and the one we did buy that fits the profile looks, to put it politely, very raw. I don’t really buy the “massive turn over” of players. The main two players that have come into the team are Azaz and Fellows, both have Championship experience and were playing significantly better for their prior clubs. They should not be going backwards as far as they have in the first two games. The fact they’ve been poor tells me the issue is coaching. I get we can’t keep sacking managers but there isn’t a shred of evidence to suggest Still is going to change this and if we keep waiting this season is going to be gone. It’s all in all incredibly frustrating that we made this appointment in the circumstances. He might have a decent career but this job came too soon and was too big. 

Edited yesterday at 15:35 by James

[saint michael]

He was a high risk hire and no real surprise that this is going on. I think an experienced mgr would have struggled to turn around the losing mentality which now seems part of our culture.
 

As everyone has been saying the deficiencies are obvious and visible with no sign of anything positive whatsoever. Really needed a coach proven at delivering strong defence, transition urgency and attack with speed. Could argue we can’t keep sacking mgrs, but at least hiring someone with proven experience would start to reduce the variables of failure. Owners and Spors need to change strategy and priorities and consider profit on sales after performance and delivery. 

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, LGTL said:

I voted for him to go as we’ve all been here before and know exactly how it ends, so pointless wasting time

Promoted, via the playoffs?

2 hours ago, LGTL said:

And Paul Trollope, a Championship nobody last seen relegated with Luton. 

Wasn’t top of the table Boro’s manager last seen at relegated Luton? Let’s see how they get on as a management team before deciding he’s the new Eric Black.

[Forester]

I share all the anger but we are six points off where we need to be (2 points per game) with 40 remaining to address that deficit.

[die Mannyschaft]

6 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

You cant replace him yet, thats ridiculous. 

BUT, he will need time to adapt to not only the Championship but managing in England. The French league is nothing like ours.

I do wonder if the club have privately told him Year One is bedding in and building the team (play-offs would be a bonus) then Year Two promotion is a must or goodnight and thanks pal.

I think definitely told don't worry if no promotion this year, but must have also said if we drop to leaque 1 then we are in good shape to ho backup and plenty of time.

[James]

Just now, die Mannyschaft said:

I think definitely told don't worry if no promotion this year, but must have also said if we drop to leaque 1 then we are in good shape to ho backup and plenty of time.

I would seriously question the club’s sanity if they were OK to keep Still if we drop into League One. Missing out on promotion if competitive sure but relegation from the Championship would be totally unacceptable. 

[AlexLaw76]

Still has said himself (many times), he was brought in to get promoted this year.

He has also said that he knows that to stay long term he must win lots of games

A team does not spend £60m in the championship to finish mid table ready for next season.

[die Mannyschaft]

I gave my son the vote as he plays Sunday leaque and understands the stupid tactics Saints play. So give him more time. 

I cant see us getting a win until January window to get a goal scorer. Cant we get players in on loan now?

To play games of football with a inconsistent goal keeper and no one to knock the ball in shows how football has gone at Saints

Plenty of analysis and firm decision making to remove 10% on shirts and ridiculous food/drink ordering system and price. No focus on the game itself so unless there is a huge change in tactics and some players in, its bottom 6 like last season.

[Charlie Wayman]

8 hours ago, Badger said:

In six games we’ve gone from ambition of automatic promotion with the likelihood of an expensively assembled to squad to just mounting a challenge to get into the play-offs. That’s quite an achievement in a short space of time 

19th in the table suggests we are now battling relegation not play-offs, an even greater and more realistic achievement on current form.

Kicking the can up the road is what most people are good at and why 70% on here say give him more time. I want rid of him now he comes across as clueless in his PCs and on the pitch. When is too late?

Edited yesterday at 16:42 by Charlie Wayman

[aintforever]

I voted to get rid because I thought it was a bad appointment at the time, would probably give him a few more games though.

[Saint NL]

Kelvin Davis got fired by Eastleigh so he's available.

 

 

(I'm joking, he's even worse than Still).

[Greedyfly]

7 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

But it’s in Still’s gift to drop Bazunu, Stephens and Manning.  We have better players in those positions but I don’t think Still is strong enough to make the changes.

I despise Stephens as a player - he represents all that is wrong with the club for me - but he's actually the best in the backline this season.  THB would be out on his arse first then stick your finger in the air and choose which 'wing' back (that's a laugh) goes next.

[Verbal]

Well that's surprising, and a bit worrying. Looked at who voted "replace" and expected the usual (and easily ignored) suspects to be there, and they were in the minority. 

[trousers]

Sometimes, as a long suffering Saints fan, you get a hunch that a given manager isn't going to succeed. Nothing scientific, nothing logical, nothing rational, nothing tangible... Just a "been there, seen that, got the t-shirt" gut feeling, intuition, call it what you like.... I'm now getting that feeling with Still unfortunately.... Here's hoping I get to join the prestigious "glad my hunch proved to be unfounded" club at the end of the season. 

(But, as I said previously, there's no point in replacing him all the while the recruitment clowns at Sport Republic are still at the helm)

Edited yesterday at 19:56 by trousers

[The Kraken]

I’m in the Still out camp I’m afraid. For any (decent) new manager you can see very quickly what it is that they’re trying to implement. Time and again we’ve had managers who you can see instantly what they’re changing, or trying to get across. I’m yet to see any of that with a Will Still side. Just a completely rudderless side at the moment that I don’t see him improving. I was at hull yesterday in the prawn sandwiches and sat not far behind the dugout (got drenched until I turned it in after goal 2 to return inside). I noticed how utterly passive Still is as a manager, he stands out at the extent of his technical area but does very little to influence matters or try to get an uptick in style or performance. He just struck me out there as being completely out of his depth, he just looked lost to me. He’s relied so far on blaming not having any players to play his system.  Well he’s got them now, and yesterday was a complete mess, we got completely done tactically and physically. Listened to some of the Hull players post-game and their pre-match analysis of how to play against us was so obvious and so spot-on. They read us like a book and put a simple plan in place to completely negate us. In comparison we were utterly weak and had no clue how to change anything in our favour. I can only see us getting worse, not better, under this guy. Genuinely saw nothing at all yesterday to make me think “yeah, build on that and we’ll be ok”.

[Jack]

Desperate for him to do well and we can’t keep sacking managers, but he needs to turn it around really fucking quickly and get the team at least showing some fight and basic competence. We’re absolutely disgracefully bad at the moment and getting worse 

Edited yesterday at 18:46 by Jack

[6ft8saint]

7 hours ago, Saint_Tony said:

He needs to buck up his ideas fast. Slow build up and cross after cross into the box just doesn't work. There's no one to attack the ball with any aggression. He's got plenty of new players so should be given a few more games to get things going, but it looks unlikely. As others have mentioned though, time is running out. The autos are out of reach already so it will be a race for the playoffs. It only takes one decent run to get in the mix. 6 games until November and a minimum of 4 wins required, which seems unlikely right now given the level of opposition we will be facing.

Crossing is great but if no one takes a shot what is the point. Under martin it was a joke that if you took a shot outside the 6yard box you would be disciplined. I hoped having seen matsuki hit a worldy we would see more good goals and instead more dross. I thought against the skates he looked out of his depth and now even more so

[Wade Garrett]

1 hour ago, Greedyfly said:

I despise Stephens as a player - he represents all that is wrong with the club for me - but he's actually the best in the backline this season.  THB would be out on his arse first then stick your finger in the air and choose which 'wing' back (that's a laugh) goes next.

THB has been shocking and should also be dropped.

[Badger]

20 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

THB has been shocking and should also be dropped.

I think it was his wayward pass that led to their second goal. 

 

[SaintsLoyal]

He needs more time, but ive got serious concerns with the lack of organisation in the team thus far. 

[Morse]

I said from the outset it was a ridiculous appointment. He has won fuck all and only managed in micky mouse leagues, and i include the French top flight in that as anyone who has watched it beyond PSG will know, finishing 8th !

It was a stupid appointment made by people,desperately trying to be clever. With our comparatively good rescouses for this league any number of experienced managers would be walking away with this league by now, but we had to go with the inexperienced, untested option. I would LOVE to be proved wrong and would happily eat any amount of humble pie if we make the playoffs with Still. But I can't see that happening and I'm very fucking angry with SR for fucking up AGAIN.

[Green]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

Sometimes, as a long suffering Saints fan, you get a hunch that a given manager isn't going to succeed. Nothing scientific, nothing logical, nothing rational, nothing tangible... Just a "been there, seen that, got the t-shirt" gut feeling, intuition, call it what you like.... I'm now getting that feeling with Still unfortunately.... Here's hoping I get to join the prestigious "glad my hunch proved to be unfounded" club at the end of the season. 

(But, as I said previously, there's no point in replacing him all the while the recruitment clowns at Sport Republic are still at the helm)

I remember having that feeling with Pellegrino very early on. 

When things just don’t feel right, likewise I’m happy to be wrong on this but like Jones did, Still has had a long time to prepare the team and we’re not seeing any sign of things improving. The players don’t seem any fitter, they don’t seem well drilled on roles, set pieces not well planned, where is the high press we were told about.

Pochettino came in at a time when nearly every fan was baffled by the appointment but we could see what he was trying to do in his first game. 

It would look terrible if the club got rid of another manager so I can’t see them doing it but if the players aren’t responding and we know how good a number of them are at this level then it’s got to be the manager unfortunately. 

 

[Killers Knee]

We know that Still like to play with pace in attack and wingers who turn the defence, so it's either the players won't do it or cannot do it.  We are so lethargic in attacking by the tine we are in shooting range they have 10 players in the box.  As for squad strength, our spine is incredibly weak:  GK, CB, CM, CF all either not good enough for this league or just about scrapes the barrel.

[The Kraken]

14 minutes ago, Killers Knee said:

We know that Still like to play with pace in attack and wingers who turn the defence, so it's either the players won't do it or cannot do it.  We are so lethargic in attacking by the tine we are in shooting range they have 10 players in the box.  As for squad strength, our spine is incredibly weak:  GK, CB, CM, CF all either not good enough for this league or just about scrapes the barrel.

Utterly ridiculous thing to say. Fuck me. 

GK:  AMc is a perfectly ok keeper for the championship. Bazunu can get in the bin.

CB: THB has been promoted twice from the championship. Jack Stephens is a twat but he’s championship level. Wood is ok for backup, Ronnie Edwards was a fans favourite for a side that finished 15th in the championship last season, and he can’t even get in our first team.

CM: Shea Charles, player of the season last term playing for a club who finished in the top half of the championship. Flynn Downes, a shadow of a man these days but 2 years ago our most influential player in the side. And Finn Azaz, 40+ goal contributions last term. Plus new guy from Germany.

CF: Downs seems awful but to suggest any of our others aren’t good enough for Championship is mental.

So, yeah, absolutely hatstand to claim we don’t have the players to be better than where we are. Just a crazy thing to suggest, especially after we’ve spent so much.

 

[Badger]

Anyone know who from our hierarchy was in Hull yesterday to see how well our the team are performing?

I recall seeing Kat at the skates game, but is Dragan a regular at home matches or does he rely on feedback from Spors ? 

[StrangelyBrown]

Still deserves a bit more time, but not much.

We've been a shit show for ages. There seems to be some lingering Russball crab football and I can't help that some of the remaining coaching staff might be part of the problem.

SR failed to give Still some major key ingredients: GK, Striker and Captain. We seem to have no leadership at all on the field.

HOWEVER, what exactly is our game plan? We don't seem to have any discernable patterns of play or any idea of what we're trying to achieve. This is 100% on Still and something he needs to sort out pretty damn quickly.

[maysie]

I've heard that Still has 5 games to sort it out or he’s gone and we have already spoken to a couple of managers apparently 

[Andrew Watson]

I think unfortunately Still is out of his depth,but have no faith in Spoors to get the right person in to replace him. The whole club is completely screwed up from top to bottom.

[EBS1980]

It’s too early. See where we are next international break.

How long until the fans turn on SR though?