Leicester 3-4 Saints - Match Thread

[Chez]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Perfect reply. You can't throw players under the bus. We might need Archer down the stretch. 

[Baird of the land]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Doing what any decent manager would do in sticking up for his players. He’ll likely need archer between now and end of the season.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 minutes ago, austsaint said:

While all of that is true, what Tonda didn’t appreciate, or act on, was the need to make changes on the half-hour after Leicester’s third goal goes in.   He should have replaced Jander who was having an out-of-character shocker; he should have replaced Archer for reasons which don’t need explaining, and he could have taken Fellows off who couldn’t get into the game and whose head had dropped after the awful back pass.    It took a miracle and a touch of class from Shea Charles to rescue three points, and save Tonda’s blushes.    Yes, they are playing for him, yes he made several good tactical changes, but the Archer experiment and the delayed substitutions invite justified criticism.

Honestly though, you can't just take players off like that at half an hour. Jander is an important player, we need to manage his confidence.

[SNSUN]

Another goal from a corner too. A Scienza corner this time. 2 from 2. Improving.

[James G]

We had the best match of the night, and it was the only one not on tv. Sods law lol

[Kingsland Codger]

Tonight’s winning feeling is right up there with Shane Long at Anfield in the League Cup semi-final

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

Perfect reply. You can't throw players under the bus. We might need Archer down the stretch. 

Not only that, slagging a team mate off isn’t going to go down well with players, or even the owners. 

[JCBSaint]

So sweet to do it against Leicester aswell, we owe them a few!

[austsaint]

10 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

I was there as well - great for the boot to be on the other foot.

21 years ago wasn’t it?   It might be 21 years before we see a comeback like tonight again.  Got to savour it.   That Charles’ goal!!

[die Mannyschaft]

Fuckin hell Saints are shit😀 . We out sang the home fans for 98 mins. They just went library after 3-0 up. Unbelievable 2nd half. Why cant we just start with our best players and keep them on pitch for 80 or 90 mins. 

[Whitey Grandad]

35 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

Dont get pissed and kick off about the Malvinas or Federico ‘Torpedo’ Arias! 😊

Well done lads. I just wish I hadn't wasted 45 minutes of my life following the game on here.

No, I don't really 😊

[Harry_SFC]

5 minutes ago, Chez said:

Perfect reply. You can't throw players under the bus. We might need Archer down the stretch. 

In all seriousness I agree.

Tonda will know that Archer was poor tonight but doesn't need to say it publicly. The same for the others who were substituted early. 

[Badger]

4 minutes ago, austsaint said:

  It took a miracle and a touch of class from Shea Charles to rescue three points, and save Tonda’s blushes.    Yes, they are playing for him, yes he made several good tactical changes, but the Archer experiment and the delayed substitutions invite justified criticism.

Some good points but most would have accepted things at 3-3 after the first half calamity. At 3-3 I think Tonda could walk away from it satisfied.

Totalky agree about Archer though. Shouldn’t be involved near the team 

[swedish dave]

25 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Haven’t Still and Tonda said he can’t do three games a week and can’t do more than 60 minutes a game? Or at least word to that effect. Picking Archer will be down to that, assume Larin isn’t full fit yet either,  perhaps also thinking Archer is a bit more mobile to catch them on the break. No issue with the team selection the fact a few of them played like peckerheads isn’t really Tondas fault and he hooked them

Players are not robots, even if some may seem to move like one.

Here's famous quote from someone who knows.

" there's a lot of difference between being... "match fit", and being ..." fit enough to play."

Alan Shearer

[egg]

6 minutes ago, austsaint said:

While all of that is true, what Tonda didn’t appreciate, or act on, was the need to make changes on the half-hour after Leicester’s third goal goes in.   He should have replaced Jander who was having an out-of-character shocker; he should have replaced Archer for reasons which don’t need explaining, and he could have taken Fellows off who couldn’t get into the game and whose head had dropped after the awful back pass.    It took a miracle and a touch of class from Shea Charles to rescue three points, and save Tonda’s blushes.    Yes, they are playing for him, yes he made several good tactical changes, but the Archer experiment and the delayed substitutions invite justified criticism.

I'm ok with him leaving it until half time. He didn't panic, and changing when you have the players in to talk to for 15 mins is far better than throwing them in after half an hour. 

[St Louis]

Just now, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Honestly though, you can't just take players off like that at half an hour. Jander is an important player, we need to manage his confidence.

Exactly that! And you could disrupt things further with changes in the first half and we could have gone in 0-4 down. He regrouped, changed the team and tactics and it worked a treat. I cant believe our manager turned around a 0-3 halftime deficit to WIN the game, and is still being criticised for not doing it right, getting lucky with a wonder strike, etc. Some managers would be too stubborn to change things even at halftime or would have gone into damage limitation mode, but Tonda switched it all up and went for the win. He knew he got it wrong and changed it, absolutely brilliant. 

[captainchris]

28 minutes ago, Chez said:

thats the first I've ever read on here that Jander cant play two games in a row.  You might have noticed it but not everyone has.

Well he cannot… We have seen it several times now…. 

[Miltonaggro]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Well done lads. I just wish I hadn't wasted 45 minutes of my life following the game on here.

No, I don't really 😊

Love it! Enjoy, Whitey! 

[Midfield_General]

27 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

 

Love how the cheers for the goals get progressively louder each time

Absolutely incredible, fair play lads, that was immense

[Badger]

28 minutes ago, saint francis said:

I remember us losing 4-3 to Leeds at St Marys, them singing "3 nil and you fucked it up".  Maybe 2004 or 5  Never thought we'd reverse it.  Old memories die hard.

3 up and losing the match. I remember that Leeds fiasco, but nothing comes close to Tranmere (was it 2001 ?). Tgat still hurts.

Nice to turn it round ourselves tonight. 

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, captainchris said:

Well he cannot… We have seen it several times now…. 

I agree to an extent. He does seem to struggle more when there are midweek games mixed in.

I like him as a player but Downes and Charles are in better form at this moment in time. 

[Chez]

 

 

3 minutes ago, captainchris said:

Well he cannot… We have seen it several times now…. 

It's not something I've noticed. Jander certainly seems to have good and bad games, so I will take your word for it that its the consecutive games in a week thats the issue.

[Whitey Grandad]

9 minutes ago, JCBSaint said:

So sweet to do it against Leicester aswell, we owe them a few!

And we've done the double over them. They'll be shaking in their boots on Saturday. 

[egg]

Just now, Chez said:

 

 

It's not something I've noticed. Jander certainly seems to have good and bad games, so I will take your word for it that its the consecutive games in a week thats the issue.

I'd not spotted a trend either, but he is inconsistent, that's for sure. 

[trousers]

 

 

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

3 up and losing the match. I remember that Leeds fiasco, but nothing comes close to Tranmere (was it 2001 ?). Tgat still hurts.

Nice to turn it round ourselves tonight. 

Both games left an indelible mark on me. This win doesn't remove it, but it doesn't do any harm either.

[Sheaf Saint]

11 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Honestly though, you can't just take players off like that at half an hour. Jander is an important player, we need to manage his confidence.

You can when they've just narrowly got away with a potential red card for a really bad tackle.

[VectisSaint]

6 minutes ago, captainchris said:

Well he cannot… We have seen it several times now…. 

No we haven't.

[trousers]

[suewhistle]

Caption: "Please, please, please sign a new contract!"

[Sheaf Saint]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Why does Jack look like he's just been pepper-sprayed?

[Chez]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

You can when they've just narrowly got away with a potential red card for a really bad tackle.

Charles is coming back after a lengthy injury, so Tonda might not want him coming on after 30 minutes. 

[egg]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

You can when they've just narrowly got away with a potential red card for a really bad tackle.

I disagree.

Hooking Jander after half an hour, or indeed anyone, would shatter confidence and do nothing for squad morale. Waiting was absolutely the right thing to do. 

Good management involves decent man management, not just picking players. 

[saintant]

Big shout out to Ross Stewart. He came on at half time and was instrumental in getting us back into the game. Deserves moments like this after his injury issues and praying he gets an injury free run because he's a good footballer and we need him if we want to push for a play-off spot.

[Sheaf Saint]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

I disagree.

Hooking Jander after half an hour, or indeed anyone, would shatter confidence and do nothing for squad morale. Waiting was absolutely the right thing to do. 

Good management involves decent man management, not just picking players. 

Ok yeah, I can see the logic in that.

[austsaint]

Just now, Chez said:

Charles is coming back after a lengthy injury, so Tonda might not want him coming on after 30 minutes. 

Nah, he’s had enough Football since returning to have replaced the out-of-sorts Jander before h/t.   One thing we can all probably agree on, quite apart from that sublime goal, Charles played an immaculate half of Football.   Thought he was the catalyst, along with Stewart for the turn around.

[Willo of Whiteley]

Looks like a squad, a team, unity

[HarvSFC]

A lot of focus has been on Larin getting ready for the Canada World Cup squad. But, surely Stewart is also an outside bet for the Scotland national team should he finally remain fit. George Hirst and Lyndon Dykes in their most recent squad alongside Che Adams and Lawrence Shankland, and a fit Stewart is at least better than the first two.

Just needs to do the hard bit for him and remain fit.

[suewhistle]

I think the three players taken off at half time won't be feeling aggrieved as they'll know in themselves that they weren't having good games, but for reasons mentioned above far better to do it at half time. Will Stewart start on Saturday; it does seem that his minutes are being very closely managed, but he does add so much. 

It wasn't just down to those three though as in the first half the defence as a whole was dodgy and too passive.

I messaged my friend at full time that I was going to pour myself a stiff whisky*. She had turned the radio off at 2-0 it sounded so bad and thought we'd been tonked! It's great to be the bearer of good news.. * Had a beer instead..

[warsash saint]

With Blackmore's commentary

Edited 1 hour ago by warsash saint

[It's There]

Ross Stewart must be scoring almost a goal every 2 games … so important to Saints!

[Lighthouse]

Weirdly, that's the third time this season we've either scored or conceded four goals in one half.

[spyinthesky]

I guess tonight's performance encapsulates what it is to be a football fan.
Feeling of desperation for 60 odd minutes, thinking why oh why do I follow this shower of shit, followed by an absolute out of this world euphoria when the 3rd and then the 4th goal goes in and I am looking forward to Saturday's game!!😍

[UpweySaint]

Just now, HarvSFC said:

A lot of focus has been on Larin getting ready for the Canada World Cup squad. But, surely Stewart is also an outside bet for the Scotland national team should he finally remain fit. George Hirst and Lyndon Dykes in their most recent squad alongside Che Adams and Lawrence Shankland, and a fit Stewart is at least better than the first two.

Just needs to do the hard bit for him and remain fit.

Interesting shout. Has he been capped before? With his injury record it’s a big if but if he can hit double figures before the end of the season you would think he’s worth a look given their paucity of options. That being said i would prefer Clarke has no interest in looking at him in the March international break - much rather he had the time to manage his fitness with us.

[trousers]

23 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Honestly though, you can't just take players off like that at half an hour. Jander is an important player, we need to manage his confidence.

 

10 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

You can when they've just narrowly got away with a potential red card for a really bad tackle.

 

6 minutes ago, egg said:

I disagree.

Hooking Jander after half an hour, or indeed anyone, would shatter confidence and do nothing for squad morale. Waiting was absolutely the right thing to do. 

Good management involves decent man management, not just picking players. 

 

2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Ok yeah, I can see the logic in that.

As always, I think there are valid opinions on both sides of this coin. Leaving a player on too long when they are obviously struggling can dent a player's confidence as much as being hooked too soon. On reflection, I'm still leaning towards wanting to see things changed during the first half, but I appreciate the alternative point of view at the same time 👍🏻

[S-Clarke]

Well holy fucking shit, that was incredible and slaps us all who doubted the character of players and individuals in this team.

The first half was just like the last Champ encounter against them at their place, I thought it would end up 4 or 5 as they were rampant. We just weren't there at all. It didn't help as we were playing with 8 or 9 men for that first half, Jander probably had the worst game of his entire career in those 45 mins. Archer, as we know, cannot play as a loan man and was a lamb to the slaughter really - but he still has to be tons better than he does, he offered us no out. Fellows didn't keep the ball and there was no width. 

Those 3 subs made sense at HT, presence up top, extra steel in CM and a slightly different profile coming off of the right. It took us a while to truly settle in, but we were so much more comfortable in that 2nd half. Stewart provided us with a shape and a structure to 'attack' around, and players like Leo came alive - and Azaz to a degree. Matsuki isn't someone I'd pick for wide right every day of the week, but it was his energy which was so important to us. 

We've been on the end of some honking results in my lifetime, last min defeats, 9-0's, and that horrendous Leeds 4-3 home game in 2005. Something like this was due, but it still takes character and belief to actually turn it around - and this is where the players and everyone in the coaching and management sphere should take enormous credit, because at 3-0 down we should have folded given how it's been going.

I feel for Leicester a little bit, as we've been there - it's just horrendous to lose a game like that, but I cannot remember a team imploding like that. They were in bits in those last 10 mins, and if I were one of their fans I'd be seriously worried about relegation on that showing. They won't be able to deal with a proper battle given by what I saw from them in the 2nd half.

Turn arounds like this are quite often defining for a team, not just in a season, but over a longer term - let's hope it's the first genuine green shoot we've seen in a while.

Can we play them every week? Oh yeah, we can.

Edited 1 hour ago by S-Clarke

[Forester]

I’ve been going to away games for over 30 years.  I remember being 2-0 down at Preston and winning 3-2 but nothing matches tonight.  Such a shame so few fans travelled (understandably) but it was pure mayhem in away end.

Thank you Saints!

[trousers]

 

 

[spyinthesky]

Just a shame that there werent that many Saints fans at the game to witness the fantastic comeback.

Wonder if the result will add more interest on Saturdays game.

Got to say that the goals from Charles and the third Leicester goal, both from similar positions on the pitch, were top class.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

If I were one of their fans I'd be seriously worried about relegation on that showing. They won't be able to deal with a proper battle given by what I saw from them in the 2nd half.

Yep it's exactly the sort of result teams have when they're going to be relegated