Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[Convict Colony]

13 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

Tonda has to be sacked. He can be the fall guy and I think the footballing world will move on fairly quickly.

[Sheaf Saint]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

NEW: Southampton call an “extraordinary exec meeting” today to discuss future of Tonda Eckert. An option on the table is to take legal action against its own Manager, although lesser actions including suspension are also being discussed. More to follow. 

Suing our own manager, for our own failure to supervise his activity. Can't see that getting off the ground.

What an utter fucking shambles.

[SouthWalesSaints]

2 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Eastleigh 

 

Maybe choose a club that’s not in Hampshire. 
 

Fucking amateurs, never seen anything so poorly thought out in all my life. 

It's because they were at Eastleigh's ground. 

[beatlesaint]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

NEW: Southampton call an “extraordinary exec meeting” today to discuss future of Tonda Eckert. An option on the table is to take legal action against its own Manager, although lesser actions including suspension are also being discussed. More to follow. 

I would doubt their energies today are focused on anything but this evenings appeal to be honest.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What????
 

It made sense because we cheated against Middlesbrough, why is this so difficult for some people to understand. Millwall lost fair and square, the people making this sanction didn’t think Middlesbrough did. The chucked us out for cheating, in that game. If sides are chucked out of the cup, the team they played go through, they don’t put someone through who lost a different tie. 
 

This.

The panel knew we had broken a rule. Ignorance or everyone does it really are meaningless. This was put in place to prevent gaining an unfair advantage.

So, they were left with, as you say, the same decision they'd make in a cup tie.

We also admitted to two other counts. Whether that's from a whistleblower or not, is meaningless.

The panel docked us the equivalent points, with what I think was a reduction for cooperation.

It's come as a shock. And I didn't think they'd impose what seemed like such a leap from the pre rule Leeds episode.

But there's clear logic in their process, and as you say, follows what you'd expect. There will be clubs, like Millwall, doing what if games. But we've been punished for next season to avoid that upheaval, much like previous decisions whether it feels fair to those impacted this season or not. That also retains the final placing for this season, keeping 'boro in the final.

I'd much prefer they docked us 4 points off of this season's total. But it's in their remit to not retroactively go through the season's results.

[DellBlockH]

I keep coming back here. Don't know why. It just depresses me.

The club broke the rules and deserved to be punished. The punishment is disproportionate to the crime and benefit gained.

Both these statements can be true. And, now, I'm going to try to stop looking here, at least until our appeal is complete.

 

 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Wow. 

The stupidity of all of this - doing it, and our approach to mitigation - is breathtaking. 

On what planet did we think it's credible to simultaneously argue that Tonda thought it was ok, but got his staff wearing a disguise. 

When you're on a knife edge, the tribunal have discretion to do what they like with you, and the tribunal chair sits as a part time crown court judge so can sniff bullshit a mile away, you toe a credible line. 

remember, the opening gambit from us was that Will Salt was acting alone in all of this.....

[Osvaldorama]

😂😂😂😂.  
 

Clusterfuck

But at least we aren’t boring 

[S-Clarke]

What are SISU up to?

[kitch]

Fuck, it's just dawned on me that we deserve it after I read that Athletic article. By "we" I of course don't mean the players or fans, or any other well-meaning and uninformed member of SFC staff, but the rest? It actually was too good to be true, wasn't it?

Close the door behind you Tonda, you fucking goon.

[pingpong]

2 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I would doubt their energies today are focused on anything but this evenings appeal to be honest.

Might strengthen the appeal if we can show this is not club sanctioned activity and the perpetrator(s) have been sacked.

[LegalEagle]

Bazunu, Bree, Wood, Capt Jack, Wellington, Bragg, Robinson, Fellows, Edozie, Matsuki, Archer. This lot plus some kids will form the basis of our team next season is my guess. That is of course not a starting 11 but we have a chance of hanging on to them. The rest will probably go to lower half PL teams

[skintsaint]

Knowing us they probably sacked the whistleblower but forget to boot him out the whatsapp group.

[Convict Colony]

Gods love chaos so i predict we get reinstated, win the playoffs and Tonda gets sacked straight after.

[Willo of Whiteley]

9 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

NEW: Southampton call an “extraordinary exec meeting” today to discuss future of Tonda Eckert. An option on the table is to take legal action against its own Manager, although lesser actions including suspension are also being discussed. More to follow. 

Not been reported anywhere.

But his Southampton future is over.

[SNSUN]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

What are SISU up to?

I'll take the Venkys right now.

[Willo of Whiteley]

Just now, Convict Colony said:

Gods love chaos so i predict we get reinstated, win the playoffs and Tonda gets sacked straight after.

That would be hilarious (aimed at Middlesbrough fans) obviously.

[egg]

8 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

The lack of use of NDAs for voluntary departures is astonishing let alone all of the other incompetence. I wouldn’t employ any of these people from SFC, total morons. 

The absence of an NDA wouldn't have prevented evidence being given to the Tribunal under summons, and any disclosure ahead of a summons would probably be protected. It's not my area of law though, so I stand to be corrected, but I think that's broadly correct. 

[benjii]

4 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

This.

The panel knew we had broken a rule. Ignorance or everyone does it really are meaningless. This was put in place to prevent gaining an unfair advantage.

So, they were left with, as you say, the same decision they'd make in a cup tie.

We also admitted to two other counts. Whether that's from a whistleblower or not, is meaningless.

The panel docked us the equivalent points, with what I think was a reduction for cooperation.

It's come as a shock. And I didn't think they'd impose what seemed like such a leap from the pre rule Leeds episode.

But there's clear logic in their process, and as you say, follows what you'd expect. There will be clubs, like Millwall, doing what if games. But we've been punished for next season to avoid that upheaval, much like previous decisions whether it feels fair to those impacted this season or not. That also retains the final placing for this season, keeping 'boro in the final.

I'd much prefer they docked us 4 points off of this season's total. But it's in their remit to not retroactively go through the season's results.

The one illogical thing is the reinstatement of Middlesbrough. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, Dr Who? said:

It will all hinge on this ‘loophole’ we have suddenly allegedly found. Any loophole can bring any case down, but I’m not holding my breath. 

The only thing I've read is that we're saying we should have had 14 days for our admission of guilt to be punished, and not the 3 or whatever it was.

Is there another loophole, as that one is doomed? 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, LegalEagle said:

Bazunu, Bree, Wood, Capt Jack, Wellington, Bragg, Robinson, Fellows, Edozie, Matsuki, Archer. This lot plus some kids will form the basis of our team next season is my guess. That is of course not a starting 11 but we have a chance of hanging on to them. The rest will probably go to lower half PL teams

I think this will be the basis of our appeal today.

Why give us -4 points? We'll start with Bazunu in goal instead, that'll be harsher.

[obelisk]

Given the latest revelations I have to wonder what it is that Tonda Eckert was itching to say during the play-off semi. 🫣

[Galway saint]

13 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I’m afraid talk of Southampton and “no brainer” in the same sentence is extremely apt at present.

It’s not a no brainer as if we obtain the injunction we will need to give a cross undertaking in damages which means if our claim is unsuccessful we will have to pay damages for the losses suffered by the EFL as a result of the postponement of the game. 

[Football Special]

26 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

Safe to say that we probably won’t see Tonda again in this country. I’d go back home if I were him.

He'll be fine in Germany, genuinely dont think this will have harmed his rep there 

[skintsaint]

Just now, Football Special said:

He'll be fine in Germany, genuinely dont think this will have harmed his rep there 

Outside the EFL, clubs might be impressed with his opposition scouting skills on display.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, benjii said:

The one illogical thing is the reinstatement of Middlesbrough. 

That doesn't make sense, the handling of this from the EFL has been piss. 

As we've clearly been doing this all season, you have to say our playoff place is in question - so fit it into the schedule, put Wrexham or Derby in, let them play Boro and then whoever wins faces Hull. It feels like Boro have been rewarded when they didn't deserve it. I get we have to be punished, but you don't need to issue unjust rewards either.

[austsaint]

19 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Outstanding article, even if it's damning.

Bye Tonda, thanks for the couple of months of enjoyment but you fucked this. "Didn't know the rules", yet they were dressing in Eastleigh kits?? FFS. Idiots. 

Didn't know the rules but dressed his spy stooges in disguise just in case there were any.   Tonda's shaping as the biggest let down in this sorry saga.   Interested to see if Spors had his fingers in the Spying till.

[benjii]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

Wow. 

The stupidity of all of this - doing it, and our approach to mitigation - is breathtaking. 

On what planet did we think it's credible to simultaneously argue that Tonda thought it was ok, but got his staff wearing a disguise. 

When you're on a knife edge, the tribunal have discretion to do what they like with you, and the tribunal chair sits as a part time crown court judge so can sniff bullshit a mile away, you toe a credible line. 

Yeah, whoever has been advising on this seems to have completely shit the bed, if we even bothered getting decent advice.

[saintant]

33 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Jesus fucking christ, it gets worse. We've even dragged Eastleigh into this.

• Incriminating WhatsApp messages to Southampton’s analysts from head coach Tonda Eckert were revealed in the hearing, with the German now potentially facing his own serious Football Association charges
• Southampton had initially planned for Salt to go back and spy on Middlesbrough for a second day
• When Southampton spied on Ipswich, the operation involved dressing in Eastleigh kit as a disguise

 

One of the key revelations at Tuesday’s hearing were the WhatsApp messages sent by Eckert to his analysts that people with knowledge of proceedings said were particularly damaging to Southampton’s case.

Two of the club’s analysts gave evidence at the hearing in which they expressed remorse for their actions but said they were pushed into the spying trips. In his evidence, Eckert — who has spent most of his coaching career in Germany — claimed he was not aware that such behaviour was against the rules in England as it was widespread in European football.

The hearing was told that Eckert had sent people to spy on fellow Championship sides Oxford and Ipswich but had been displeased with the quality of their findings. In the case of Ipswich, the subterfuge extended to using kit worn by Eastleigh, whose Hampshire training ground was hosting Southampton’s opponents.

 

Which rather knocks a huge hole in the argument that Eckert and others didn't know what we were doing was against the rules. If they thought that why get the guy to wear an Eastleigh kit?

[revolution saint]

4 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

Bazunu, Bree, Wood, Capt Jack, Wellington, Bragg, Robinson, Fellows, Edozie, Matsuki, Archer. This lot plus some kids will form the basis of our team next season is my guess. That is of course not a starting 11 but we have a chance of hanging on to them. The rest will probably go to lower half PL teams

You forgot Damion Downs.

[kitch]

3 minutes ago, benjii said:

The one illogical thing is the reinstatement of Middlesbrough. 

EFL want the income from a PO final. The right thing would have been to just award the tie to Hull, but then they'd miss out on a payday at Wembley.

[Dr Who?]

All those that are involved in this need gone. Sad but true. We need to make a clean sweep and look to be taking action against those that have wronged the club, not especially so the world of football see it, but so us fans see it. We have been taken for mugs again, in what has turned out to be another wasted season like the last one in the premier league. 

I am angry and embarrassed by the football club acting like we are a bloody circus 🤡. 

I have always been a proud Saints fan no matter how rubbish we have been. My car looks like Southampton Football Club have thrown up over it and it has done since I have been driving a very long time ago. I never take stuff down when we lose. I have memorabilia in the house that always stays in place. Like you lot I am proud to support them. Southampton Football Club our a huge part of ‘my’ identity an identity that I am ashamed to be associated with today. 

I can take losing games, even going into administration, and being sad about the club, but this is an all time low, not only the cheating, but how we have gone about it, and also in a time where social media and society in general is crazy! 🤪 

Edited 3 hours ago by Dr Who?

[Midfield_General]

56 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Which would be fine if we were claiming we didn't have enough time to prepare our defence adequately.

But it seems our defence was, "yes sir, we did that sir, we're guilty", so we didn't need 14 days prep time!

From the mouth of our CEO - the one person we should be able to rely on to know how to act in the best interests of the club, whatever they may be at that time

To their CEO - the one person who is obviously going to do everything in his power to act in the best interests of his club, especially when he personally stood to gain tens of millions from it. 

What the fuck did Parsons think Gibson was going to say? 'Oh OK, we'll just keep it between us then, don't worry about it'?

I'm struggling to think of any example, ever, of someone saying or doing something more stupid than that, in any walk of life. And I can't. 

Gerald Ratner, maybe. But it's close. 

 

[SNSUN]

3 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Outside the EFL, clubs might be impressed with his opposition scouting skills on display.

Marginal gains

[Stevejb]

Worse and worse.What next?

[PJ]

21 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Tonda needs to walk on Friday before he is sacked for gross misconduct. The Eastleigh example is far worse than Middlesbrough IMHO. Latter was stupidity in a too-open complex but that’s just unpleasant dragging Eastleigh into it.

Yep. Presumably eastleigh make some decent income by loaning their training ground to other clubs. Maybe other clubs will think twice about it now. So a non-league club up the road set to lose an income stream because of our cheating...nice one

[Addict54]

Still in shock about what we’ve learned these last two weeks tbh.  I mean, how can there be literally zero hipster coffee shops in the whole of Middlesbrough? Damning indictment.

[Dr Who?]

6 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

The only thing I've read is that we're saying we should have had 14 days for our admission of guilt to be punished, and not the 3 or whatever it was.

Is there another loophole, as that one is doomed? 

You know this is it. That’s what we have up our sleeve… bravo! 👏 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, DellBlockH said:

The punishment is disproportionate to the crime and benefit gained.

It’s been pretty obvious from the start that if the play offs were deemed seperate from the league, we were fucked. Nobody has seen the full report, but I imagine this is the case. What alternative sporting sanction was there. People saying we only spied on the first leg are missing the point. Had we not been caught, would we have spied on the second leg as well. Who can honestly say we wouldn’t have. Once they decided it was a separate competition & once they decided a sporting sanction was appropriate, the only logical punishment was chucking us out. What sporting sanctions were available to them, banned from future play offs, is the only one I can think, and that’s completely unrealistic. 

Our only appeal play off wise is it shouldn’t be a sporting sanction. Good luck with that one…. The only hope is somewhere the process was messed up, and we get back in on a technicality, about 0.5% chances that. 
 

We’re fucked and we fucked ourselves 
 

[Mattio]

2 minutes ago, PJ said:

Yep. Presumably eastleigh make some decent income by loaning their training ground to other clubs. Maybe other clubs will think twice about it now. So a non-league club up the road set to lose an income stream because of our cheating...nice one

Give it a few years and we'll be playing against them in the league.

[Tamesaint]

8 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

Bazunu, Bree, Wood, Capt Jack, Wellington, Bragg, Robinson, Fellows, Edozie, Matsuki, Archer. This lot plus some kids will form the basis of our team next season is my guess. That is of course not a starting 11 but we have a chance of hanging on to them. The rest will probably go to lower half PL teams

There are also the players returning from loan spells. BBD, Sugawara etc. 

[Dr Who?]

7 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Given the latest revelations I have to wonder what it is that Tonda Eckert was itching to say during the play-off semi. 🫣

I didn’t know! 

[Convict Colony]

7 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Given the latest revelations I have to wonder what it is that Tonda Eckert was itching to say during the play-off semi. 🫣

[skintsaint]

[Dr Who?]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

Which rather knocks a huge hole in the argument that Eckert and others didn't know what we were doing was against the rules. If they thought that why get the guy to wear an Eastleigh kit?

Spot on. Don’t believe anything in the media! 

[hypochondriac]

Quite looking forward to the radio solent fans forum.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Tamesaint said:

There are also the players returning from loan spells. BBD, Sugawara etc. 

what a team we will have.

[SaintLondon]

Now the dust has settled somewhat and the initial shock has faded, my horror has turned into genuine fear. Forget the playoffs - that feels irrelevant now. The implications of what happens next are enormous. This isn’t some flash-in-the-pan issue; the ramifications of a handful of people’s decisions could impact the club for years to come.

The level of idiocy involved is staggering, but beyond that, it’s the arrogance of it all that absolutely stinks. The people responsible will move on, get other jobs, earn millions elsewhere, while leaving the club and its supporters to deal with the fallout.

Ultimately, the buck stops with Dragan. He needs to move past the initial anger and clean house quickly. Proper football people need to be brought in, but equally important is the wider PR and leadership strategy around this because right now the communication has been dreadful. Not only does he need to remove the wrong people internally, he needs advisors around him capable of steering the club out of what increasingly feels like a complete hellscape. (Aka not Rasmus)

I honestly don’t know where the money comes from, but there also needs to be some form of acknowledgement  / compo towards the fans who have spent their hard-earned money following the club this season. Wholesale changes are needed and, above all else, there needs to be genuine transparency around what’s happening and when.

As someone who works in PR, I completely understand the logic of not speaking until you have something concrete to say. But I am genuinely staggered there hasn’t even been a holding statement. And then you have leaks to Alfie House suggesting the club are “confident” the game goes ahead - there’s that same arrogance again.

I’m genuinely at a loss as a fan. Yes, support the club through thick and thin - of course. But if everyone simply moves on as though nothing has happened, then the people responsible effectively escape accountability for what looks and feels like negligence on a monumental scale.

The vicious circle, of course, is that the more disillusioned the fans become, the bigger the hole the club finds itself in.

In short: what an absolute mess. A complete shambles.

[benjii]

It does feel unfair that additional charges were added on Sunday and then determined by Tuesday. Did we have time to defend those?

If they influenced the play off decision then there's an angle there.

But honestly, it looks as though everyone involved in this has been incompetent so I wouldn't hold out much hope. Maybe we get those discounted, but I expect the tribunal would say the points penalty relates to those and the play off sanction would have been applied anyway (although is that really likely if it was a one-off)?

Edited 3 hours ago by benjii

[benjii]

2 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

There are also the players returning from loan spells. BBD, Sugawara etc. 

Thank God for that.