Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[Toadhall Saint]

Is there a sweepstake for timing of announcement? I’m going for between 3:30 and 4:00 pm tomorrow.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, egg said:

I reckon something in the order of £5m, and we'll live with it. 

The reported points, -6. I get it, but even that seems a tad high (if they go with that).

We all know about Leicester and that was off the charts

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, Toadhall Saint said:

Is there a sweepstake for timing of announcement? I’m going for between 3:30 and 4:00 pm tomorrow.

Tuesday 12:00.

[Cuddles]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

I reckon something in the order of £5m, and we'll live with it. 

Still seems a lot, particularly if we don't go up...

[Arjen Robben]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

15 posts in 14 years, with the majority in the last week or so.... interesting!

Really not that interesting Benji , just a regular long time STH. Use to post in the old days as St. Bart No.1 saintsweb used to be entertaining back in the days of Michael Wilde/Leon Crouch , after Markus took over and we got good again it turned into a bit of a dick swinging forum and I think a lot of the older posters got fed up with being disrespected. I still lurk and dive in to transfer rumours etc. but there are bigger things happening in the world most of the time.
 My posts in the last week are because I just can’t believe Southampton’s good name has been dragged through the mud as much as it has. The only time I can remember any remotely similar was the Moran/Wright episode in Sweden in the 80’s but even then I don’t recall it being as spiteful as now.

My recent posts I’ve attempted to be humorous or thought provoking, as I’m starting to think the place is full of bots because the same ideas keep coming up page after page. Because despite some posters thinking they know the definitive what, where and how and are ready to send us to the gallows the truth is we are all in the dark just looking for answers.

call me deluded but i just can’t believe we sent a wet behind the ears intern to spy for such a massive match , something smells really off . It’s just not the Southampton way.

anyway off to Wembley and COYR

[trousers]

General curiosity question....

If we get fined, say £5m, where does that money end up? EFL donates it to various charities? It trickles down to grass roots football? EFL Board Christmas party?  Something else? Genuinely interested.

[egg]

Just now, Cuddles said:

Still seems a lot, particularly if we don't go up...

It is, but as I've said above, there needs to be a penalty that neither side would appeal. A small ISH fine, and only a small points deduction, would likely be appealed imo. £5ish mil, 4-6 points, and both sides would live with that imo. 

[St. Ciervo]

The fines should be used for fencing around all EFL training grounds around the country. 

[obelisk]

1 minute ago, egg said:

It is, but as I've said above, there needs to be a penalty that neither side would appeal. A small ISH fine, and only a small points deduction, would likely be appealed imo. £5ish mil, 4-6 points, and both sides would live with that imo. 

That seems way out of proportion to me.

[DT]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

General curiosity question....

If we get fined, say £5m, where does that money end up? EFL donates it to various charities? It trickles down to grass roots football? EFL Board Christmas party?  Something else? Genuinely interested.

Hedge fund

 

i thank you. 😊 

[Toadhall Saint]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

It is, but as I've said above, there needs to be a penalty that neither side would appeal. A small ISH fine, and only a small points deduction, would likely be appealed imo. £5ish mil, 4-6 points, and both sides would live with that imo. 

Yep - it’s not just about proportionality it’s about precedent.

[Sheaf Saint]

6 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Is there a sweepstake for timing of announcement? I’m going for between 3:30 and 4:00 pm tomorrow.

I'm hoping earlier than that so my guess of 112 pages on this thread doesn't end up wildly out. 

We'll probably have surpassed that by 9am tomorrow though at this rate.

[egg]

1 minute ago, obelisk said:

That seems way out of proportion to me.

I think people aren't looking at the context, and value, of the fixture. Massive outcome, massive penalty. If it was before the final, or even 2nd leg with it in the balance, I think we'd be in huge trouble.I think the club would swallow a massive fine. Let's see where it goes.  

[trousers]

1 minute ago, DT said:

Hedge fund

 

i thank you. 😊 

Ha!  Very good sir 😂

[trousers]

1 minute ago, egg said:

I think people aren't looking at the context, and value, of the fixture. Massive outcome, massive penalty. If it was before the final, or even 2nd leg with it in the balance, I think we'd be in huge trouble.I think the club would swallow a massive fine. Let's see where it goes.  

Yep, inclined to agree... Anything £5m or below and/or 6 points or below is a "take it on the chin / could've been worse" punishment I reckon (assuming it's a clear cut case of the club knowingly spying within the 72 hour window of course )

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

I think people aren't looking at the context, and value, of the fixture. Massive outcome, massive penalty. If it was before the final, or even 2nd leg with it in the balance, I think we'd be in huge trouble.I think the club would swallow a massive fine. Let's see where it goes.  

Agreed. I reckon if we get away without being kicked out we will breathe a sigh of relief and probably leave it at that. 

[obelisk]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

I think people aren't looking at the context, and value, of the fixture. Massive outcome, massive penalty. If it was before the final, or even 2nd leg with it in the balance, I think we'd be in huge trouble.I think the club would swallow a massive fine. Let's see where it goes.  

Yes maybe. Wouldn't be the first time that someone has stumped up a large amount of dosh to make something go away.

As a precedent though I imagine teams throughout the EFL will be on the lookout for people lurking behind trees on the edge of their training camp if at least 6 points is the penalty.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, obelisk said:

Yes maybe. Wouldn't be the first time that someone has stumped up a large amount of dosh to make something go away.

As a precedent though I imagine teams throughout the EFL will be on the lookout for people lurking behind trees on the edge of their training camp if at least 6 points is the penalty.

That's why a points deduction should be involved here. Needs to send a message. 

[Waterside.saint]

5 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

If Tonda gets expelled...here he comes

Just so long as it isn't one of the Still bros.

[Saint NL]

21 minutes ago, trousers said:

General curiosity question....

If we get fined, say £5m, where does that money end up? EFL donates it to various charities? It trickles down to grass roots football? EFL Board Christmas party?  Something else? Genuinely interested.

Let's just say that hair dye retailers in the north east will be very happy

[Saint_clark]

26 minutes ago, trousers said:

General curiosity question....

If we get fined, say £5m, where does that money end up? EFL donates it to various charities? It trickles down to grass roots football? EFL Board Christmas party?  Something else? Genuinely interested.

Charities hopefully but I doubt it. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

If they deem it a separate competition from the league, how can they apply a points deduction. I’m not saying that’s right, but logically if they decide it is a different competition, a points deduction seems unlikely. If they don’t want to chuck us out, they’ll have to fudge that issue, unless they do something totally left field like banning us from the play offs for a couple of seasons ( can only go up if we finish in top 2). If they decide it’s one competition, then we’re on safer ground imo and a points deduction is appropriate. 

[Turkish]

28 minutes ago, Arjen Robben said:

Really not that interesting Benji , just a regular long time STH. Use to post in the old days as St. Bart No.1 saintsweb used to be entertaining back in the days of Michael Wilde/Leon Crouch , after Markus took over and we got good again it turned into a bit of a dick swinging forum and I think a lot of the older posters got fed up with being disrespected. I still lurk and dive in to transfer rumours etc. but there are bigger things happening in the world most of the time.
 My posts in the last week are because I just can’t believe Southampton’s good name has been dragged through the mud as much as it has. The only time I can remember any remotely similar was the Moran/Wright episode in Sweden in the 80’s but even then I don’t recall it being as spiteful as now.

My recent posts I’ve attempted to be humorous or thought provoking, as I’m starting to think the place is full of bots because the same ideas keep coming up page after page. Because despite some posters thinking they know the definitive what, where and how and are ready to send us to the gallows the truth is we are all in the dark just looking for answers.

call me deluded but i just can’t believe we sent a wet behind the ears intern to spy for such a massive match , something smells really off . It’s just not the Southampton way.

anyway off to Wembley and COYR

Yep that’s how I see

[Roger]

Why are you all thinking it’s a fine just because of one person. 

[Saint_clark]

14 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Agreed. I reckon if we get away without being kicked out we will breathe a sigh of relief and probably leave it at that. 

I think a points deduction above 10 we will try to get reduced as disproportionate, and it's also possible if we have 14 days to appeal we will wait and see the result in the final - win and we will let it lie, lose and we may as well appeal any outcome to try and get it reduced.

[Saint Scott]

27 minutes ago, egg said:

It is, but as I've said above, there needs to be a penalty that neither side would appeal. A small ISH fine, and only a small points deduction, would likely be appealed imo. £5ish mil, 4-6 points, and both sides would live with that imo. 

Do you mean the EFL or Boro?

Can Boro appeal? I thought they weren't a party in the case now, hence Gibson demanding they be included. 

If a £4.5m fine is to be believed, just take it on the chin and of we go up it's a no brainer.

I am interested to see Tondas view though. He clearly wanted to talk about it in both Boro press conferences. I can only imagine it will make Gibson look a bigger prat than he already is

[Cuddles]

2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I think a points deduction above 10 we will try to get reduced as disproportionate, and it's also possible if we have 14 days to appeal we will wait and see the result in the final - win and we will let it lie, lose and we may as well appeal any outcome to try and get it reduced.

Not necessarily, there's still a high chance we'd come straight back down again (although Leeds and Sunderland have done very well this season).

[badgerx16]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

I think a points deduction above 10 we will try to get reduced as disproportionate, and it's also possible if we have 14 days to appeal we will wait and see the result in the final - win and we will let it lie, lose and we may as well appeal any outcome to try and get it reduced.

10 points is way too harsh considering what has been dished out for other types of offence. No way this is equivalent to  or worse than, Leicester  or going into administration.

[Appy]

Just now, Saint Scott said:

Do you mean the EFL or Boro?

Can Boro appeal? I thought they weren't a party in the case now, hence Gibson demanding they be included. 

If a £4.5m fine is to be believed, just take it on the chin and of we go up it's a no brainer.

I am interested to see Tondas view though. He clearly wanted to talk about it in both Boro press conferences. I can only imagine it will make Gibson look a bigger prat than he already is

Boro can’t appeal. 
 

The EFL can. 

[LGTL]

I saw Ross Stewart and Russell Martin engaged in deep conversation in Winchester today. Make of that what you will. 

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Saint Scott said:

 

Can Boro appeal? 

No.

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

10 points is way too harsh considering what has been dished out for other types of offence. No way this is equivalent to  or worse than, Leicester  or going into administration.

Agree to disagree. Like it or not, the EFL are taking this very seriously.

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I think a points deduction above 10 we will try to get reduced as disproportionate, and it's also possible if we have 14 days to appeal we will wait and see the result in the final - win and we will let it lie, lose and we may as well appeal any outcome to try and get it reduced.

Agreed but I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting we would get a ten point deduction that would be mental. 

[Saint Scott]

1 minute ago, Appy said:

Boro can’t appeal. 
 

The EFL can. 

Thanks for clarifying. 

I can't see the EFL appealing a substantial fine, they just want this over and done with now

[badgerx16]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

Agree to disagree. Like it or not, the EFL are taking this very seriously.

Absolutely zero sporting advantage was gained.

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Absolutely zero sporting advantage was gained.

Yes, but we tried to. 

Again the EFL are taking it seriously whether we think it is or not. I'm expecting a fine in the millions and a 4 to 6 point deduction. 

[Harry_SFC]

5 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Agree to disagree. Like it or not, the EFL are taking this very seriously.

Not sure how anyone can think that what we've done is worse than Leicester cheating for multiple seasons, gaining a huge advantage over every other team in the league (when they won it that is)

Edited Sunday at 17:23 by Harry_SFC

[Saint NL]

It's Sunday evening, this time next week Saints could:

A) have won the playoffs and we're going up.

B) played the playoffs and lost to Hull.

C) waiting to play the playoff as it was rearranged.

D) kicked out the playoffs 

And with those options, we then have:

1) Tonda is manager

2) Tonda is manager but is suspended.

3) Tonda has been fired

4) Tonda has quit.

 

Let's all hope for A1, but no one has any idea really.... 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Absolutely zero sporting advantage was gained.

Why does this keep being said? It's utterly irrelevant. What's relevant is that the intention was to gain a sporting advantage, in the first of a series of games with a £200m prize. 

[Harry_SFC]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

Why does this keep being said? It's utterly irrelevant. What's relevant is that the intention was to gain a sporting advantage, in the first of a series of games with a £200m prize. 

Well it does matter in the grand scheme of things. Do you think the punishment would be the same if we still had the footage and used it to help us beat them 5-0 in the first leg? Surely the panel would use that against us. 

Edited Sunday at 17:27 by Harry_SFC

[sadoldgit]

14 minutes ago, LGTL said:

I saw Ross Stewart and Russell Martin engaged in deep conversation in Winchester today. Make of that what you will. 

It didn’t happen unless you were standing by a tree and took a picture of it with your iPhone!

[SW11_Saint]

2 hours ago, LegalEagle said:

“Could face individual disciplinary action”. I could have been a woman if I’d had tits and a fanny.

So good you said it twice? 

[Polaroid Saint]

6 points and £7m is clearly acceptable to the club as an operational loss...

...Same as playing Bazunu for half a season and a Damien Downs transfer.

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Well it does matter in the grand scheme of things. Do you think the punishment would be the same if we still had the footage and used it to help us beat them 5-0 in the first leg? Surely the panel would use that against us. 

The point the poster made was that we didn't get a sporting advantage. We may or may not have - theoretically we could have tweaked something so managed to scrape a nil nil... theoretically. Regardless, the panel will focus on the advantage we could have gained in such a massive game. 

Edited Sunday at 17:34 by egg

[DellBlockH]

46 minutes ago, egg said:

It is, but as I've said above, there needs to be a penalty that neither side would appeal. A small ISH fine, and only a small points deduction, would likely be appealed imo. £5ish mil, 4-6 points, and both sides would live with that imo. 

There aren't really sides though. Middlesbrough made the report but they aren't a direct party to the outcome. It's the EFL v Southampton. I can't see the EFL appealing against a the decision of the tribunal it appointed. Saints might appeal if punishment is seen as too harsh. 

I make no comme t on the likely outcome, though  as I'm as much jn the dark as everybody else posting on this thread.

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Well it does matter in the grand scheme of things. Do you think the punishment would be the same if we still had the footage and used it to help us beat them 5-0 in the first leg? Surely the panel would use that against us. 

The outcome is totally irrelevant. You’re saying the punishment should be less because Middlesborough caught us and stopped us in our tracks. That’s the equivalent of us playing an illegible player, but not being punished because it was Baz. 

[Suhari]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Johnnie Cochrane

'If the spying gear is shit you must acquit'

If he stood by a tree, it must've been a pee.

[egg]

1 minute ago, DellBlockH said:

There aren't really sides though. Middlesbrough made the report but they aren't a direct party to the outcome. It's the EFL v Southampton. I can't see the EFL appealing against a the decision of the tribunal it appointed. Saints might appeal if punishment is seen as too harsh. 

I make no comme t on the likely outcome, though  as I'm as much jn the dark as everybody else posting on this thread.

You've identified the sides whilst saying there aren't sides!!

This is EFL Vs Saints. Sides. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

19 minutes ago, LGTL said:

I saw Ross Stewart and Russell Martin engaged in deep conversation in Winchester today. Make of that what you will. 

I make it bollocks

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, egg said:

The point was that we didn't get a sporting advantage. We may or may not have - theoretically we could have tweaked something so managed to scrape a nil nil... theoretically. Regardless, the panel will focus on the advantage we could have gained in such a massive game. 

And does that advantage excede or even equate to Leicester's persistent financial doping ?