#Spygate

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, CSA96 said:

 

Having been at Hull away, nor do I. One of the most clueless, disorganised Saints performances I’ve ever seen.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, CSA96 said:

 

'Disgruntled former employee trying to throw their former employers under the bus' shocker...Happens all the time, tribunals etc, unfair dismissal. 

I can't see how a former employee providing evidence is strong enough, because you don't know his motivations for doing so and we'd just claim he was a disgruntled employee, and he's fabricating it.

[coalman]

5 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

I love the way Hull are completely focused on beating us on the football pitch. They've conducted themselves perfectly in this situation.

[Football Special]

45 minutes ago, saintant said:

Boro saying whistelblower is an analyst who we sacked in December - they claim he approached Boro when this whole sorry saga started and has provided them with details of other clubs we spied on.

Anyone know if we sacked an analyst in december?

If there's any truth in this i say we've been done up in a honeytrap, they knew someone would be there and were all set to take a photo and have an evidence pack with EFL by end of same day , certain reporters close to Gibson then went straight on the attack. 

If there's any new evidence that needs to be submitted to us in full with time to review and gain proper legal advice before turning up at any hearing 

[Harry_SFC]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Yeah I agree and Simon Jordan has said as much and he's spoken to Gibson. 

Exactly what Gibson did to Derby. 

[Football Special]

8 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Having been at Hull away, nor do I. One of the most clueless, disorganised Saints performances I’ve ever seen.

Will Still era, we probably had an analyst watching Hull rugby league training by mistake 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

7 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

They can't gain a sporting advantage themselves now, so what we are seeing now are the final throws of the official process that Middlesbrough started with the EFL.

Hope so, but these things have a habit of gaining momemtum of their own. The EFL saying "supporters should be aware that the outcome of disciplinary proceeding may yet result in changes to the fixture" is an example that this is not sorted and they are keeping all the options open.

[Ted Bates Statue]

46 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

True. How do you see it playing out? Simon Jordan had spoken to Gibson and suggested we do a private deal with Middlesbrough but it seems things have progressed past that point. 

When you put it like that, it seems fairly blatant what Compo-Face Gibson is trying to achieve. Flood the zone with negative press, get Sports Republic unduly worried about excessive repercussions, and then suggest through a mouthpiece that this could all go away if only Dragan gets his wallet out and hands over all his money. 

[Midfield_General]

32 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

If we'd systematically been spying, the fact that Still's Saints were up shit's creek without a paddle suggests that it wasn't giving us any sort of sporting advantage 😅

Or that Will Still was, somehow, even more shit than we thought previously and couldn't even win when someone was literally telling him what the opposition were going to do

[egg]

33 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

Could Middlesbrough appeal if they're not happy with the outcome?

No. It's not their case. The EFL could though, as could we. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

When you put it like that, it seems fairly blatant what Compo-Face Gibson is trying to achieve. Flood the zone with negative press, get Sports Republic unduly worried about excessive repercussions, and then suggest through a mouthpiece that this could all go away if only Dragan gets his wallet out and hands over all his money. 

He said we will have already spoken in the boardroom at the away game so I'm sure we are aware of his terms. 

[Turkish]

Do we even know it was definitely Will Salt? Other than this apparent piece of dynamite that he bought a coffee,  he's a pretty average looking early 20 lad could it not just someone who looked like him? 

[Jimmy_D]

5 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Hope so, but these things have a habit of gaining momemtum of their own. The EFL saying "supporters should be aware that the outcome of disciplinary proceeding may yet result in changes to the fixture" is an example that this is not sorted and they are keeping all the options open.

Remember it’s not in the EFL’s hands now. They have to prepare for the possibility it has to be moved or changed, but you can’t read anything into potential outcome from their actions at this point.

[Saint Scott]

26 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

 

 

18 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

 

Steve Gibson currently...

 

 

[S-Clarke]

6 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Hope so, but these things have a habit of gaining momemtum of their own. The EFL saying "supporters should be aware that the outcome of disciplinary proceeding may yet result in changes to the fixture" is an example that this is not sorted and they are keeping all the options open.

That's all they can say though, as the EFL have no idea themselves how this will pan out. Their job is to gather the evidence, present it to the independent panel and then allow them to reach a conclusion that the EFL then applies. So of course the EFL are going to say that, because by regulation any possibility is possible, not that they're likley.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Do we even know it was definitely Will Salt? Other than this apparent piece of dynamite that he bought a coffee,  he's a pretty average looking early 20 lad could it not just someone who looked like him? 

on the Uglies, he appears in the Feb manager of the month picture, but not the March and April's.

Clearly, he was 'scouting' on those days

[egg]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Do we even know it was definitely Will Salt? Other than this apparent piece of dynamite that he bought a coffee,  he's a pretty average looking early 20 lad could it not just someone who looked like him? 

That fringe is distinctive. Surprised it didn't flop into his coffee tbh. 

[Turkish]

Just now, egg said:

That fringe is distinctive. Surprised it didn't flop into his coffee tbh. 

Theyve all got them these days, all the boys at my school have that exact hair cut.

[Lord Duckhunter]

It’s a mess. But it’s a mess of our making, not Middlesbrough, not their supporters, or their tame hacks & not the EFL. Sometimes there’s a ridiculous penalty awarded in the game, the phrase used is “he gave the referee a decision to make”, well we’ve given the authorities a decision to make, & rightly or wrongly, they could kick us out. Somebody at the club needs to pay for that with their job and I don’t mean the nipper with the iPhone. It’s a fucking shambles….

The general consensus on here is we’ll be ok, but I’m up and down. Sometimes I think it’ll be nothing, an hour later I’m thinking we’re fucked. The only thing I’m sure of, is the independent panel are independent. They’re also a body which relies on their integrity and reputation, they’re not going to be bothered about the logistics of playing the game without us, or Harry Styles gigging on the alternative date. Equally, they won’t want their decision being overturned by SR’s lawyers. The only consideration will be a verdict which is fair in most people’s eyes, proportionate and  legally defendable. The truth is nobody really knows what they’ll be presented with or what our mitigation is. Trying to second guess why this has happened (tickets going on sale) or that happened, is pointless. It’s all up in the air and it wouldn’t be if we’d stuck to the rules….  Fucking shambles. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Lord Duckhunter

[skintsaint]

14 minutes ago, coalman said:

I love the way Hull are completely focused on beating us on the football pitch. They've conducted themselves perfectly in this situation.

Hope we beat the cheats.

[die Mannyschaft]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

No. It's not their case. The EFL could though, as could we. 

Boro will just call another club and say look help us out make a spy claim about Saints 

[Midfield_General]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Theyve all got them these days, all the boys at my school have that exact hair cut.

How old are you? 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Theyve all got them these days, all the boys at my school have that exact hair cut.

Any of them been up to Middlesbrough and willing to take one for the team? Asking for a friend. 

[LGTL]

Analyst is Jason Taylor. Sacked by Saints earlier this season. Originally, we got him from…….Boro 😂

[egg]

1 minute ago, die Mannyschaft said:

Boro will just call another club and say look help us out make a spy claim about Saints 

What's that got to do with charge that relates to Middlesbrough?

You're flapping and over thinking. 

[westmidlandsaint]

Surely if Saints knew they had been spying all season, as has been alleged, then when the Middlesbrough incident first came to light they'd have wanted to play it down and confess quickly to stop further info from being dug up. Not drag it all out with their "internal" investigations like they have.

Something along the lines of "hands up, we sent a junior analyst to Middlesbrough to see if he could find out if Hayden Hackney was fit enough to play. We didn't authorize him to observe training within the 72 hours but it seems he did" 

[hypochondriac]

Left in January. Looks like the one. 

[bpsaint]

3 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Analyst is Jason Taylor. Sacked by Saints earlier this season. Originally, we got him from…….Boro 😂

You couldn’t fucking write it could you. Absolute amateur hour from us.

[HarvSFC]

Look at the official Middlesbrough Twitter account mocking speech impediments before THB did it as well. 😉

[trousers]

38 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

 

 

30 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

 

I'm starting to compile a list of all clubs who have possibly done this spying malarkey themselves... #solidaritycomrades

[AlexLaw76]

Looking on the Boro forum, they are generally not only confident about us being kicked out, but very confident. 

Me personally, No idea what has actually happened (or to what extent). Despite 'spying' within 72 hours of kick off being against the rules and removing us from the playoffs is fucking overkill, nothing will surprise me in football. Even 6 points as a deduction is overkill considering Leicester and such like.

I can see a scenario where the EFL go through with it and let us take what ever action we take, albeit as a Championship club.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[egg]

I've just checked the EFL regulations. 

Either us or the EFL (assuming we're the only 2 parties to the case) can appeal a verdict or penalty within 14 days, although the chair can reduce that period. That appeal then needs to be held. 

Assuming we go down in flames on Tuesday, there's no realistic way of having an appeal fairly determined by the weekend. 

I'm as confident as I can be that, assuming this was an isolated incident, that we ain't getting kicked out. 

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Looking on the Boro forum, they are generally not only confident about us being kicked out, but very confident. 

If they do get the decision I really hope Hull do a number on them.

[Toadhall Saint]

Whatever the outcome I would still like to hear what Tonda has to say. He seemed quite keen to speak (but couldn’t due to process) in the post match press conference on Tuesday 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, egg said:

I've just checked the EFL regulations. 

Either us or the EFL (assuming we're the only 2 parties to the case) can appeal a verdict or penalty within 14 days, although the chair can reduce that period. That appeal then needs to be held. 

Assuming we go down in flames on Tuesday, there's no realistic way of having an appeal fairly determined by the weekend. 

I'm as confident as I can be that, assuming this was an isolated incident, that we ain't getting kicked out. 

When you put it like that (ie, just the facts), the timing might save us from what the EFL/whoever may want to do to as a sanction.

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, egg said:

I've just checked the EFL regulations. 

Either us or the EFL (assuming we're the only 2 parties to the case) can appeal a verdict or penalty within 14 days, although the chair can reduce that period. That appeal then needs to be held. 

Assuming we go down in flames on Tuesday, there's no realistic way of having an appeal fairly determined by the weekend. 

I'm as confident as I can be that, assuming this was an isolated incident, that we ain't getting kicked out. 

Could be before Tuesday 

[Lord Duckhunter]

I just saw a great point about Hull. Both us & Middlesborough will have 10 days to prepare for playing Hull, whereas they might not know until Tuesday who they are playing. If watching training within 72 hours of a game, gives you an advantage, what does an extra week knowing your opponent must do similar….

Edited 5 hours ago by Lord Duckhunter

[coalman]

1 minute ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Whatever the outcome I would still like to hear what Tonda has to say. He seemed quite keen to speak (but couldn’t due to process) in the post match press conference on Tuesday 

Same. I think his reaction to whatever Hellberg said on the touchline was pretty telling in terms of whether he has been involved or not.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Could be before Tuesday 

surely an appeal wont be held within say, 48-72 hours......given this has take the best part of a week already.

Then again, if we trigger an appeal that could trigger the fixture to be changed 

[egg]

1 minute ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Could be before Tuesday 

Apologies, I meant next weekend, final day.

I'm talking about an appeal against that decision by either us or the EFL. That isn't getting dealt with by Tuesday, or the final. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

I just saw a great point about Hull. Both us & Middlesborough will have 10 days to prepare for playing Hull, whereas they might not know until Tuesday who they are playing. If watching training within 72 hours of a game, gives you an advantage, what does an extra week know your opponent must do similar….

good point, more so as playing Saints or Boro are very different scenarios. We play very different football

[trousers]

19 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Analyst is Jason Taylor. Sacked by Saints earlier this season. Originally, we got him from…….Boro 😂

Is an ex-employee of a given club allowed to pass on confidential information to another club if said information is deemed to uncover a wrong-doing, or is all information confidential regardless of it's status? In other words, could Middlesbrough be in possession of information through improper means? Unless said analyst passed the info directly to the EFL I guess...?

Edited 5 hours ago by trousers

[Pamplemousse]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I just saw a great point about Hull. Both us & Middlesborough will have 10 days to prepare for playing Hull, whereas they might not know until Tuesday who they are playing. If watching training within 72 hours of a game, gives you an advantage, what does an extra week knowing your opponent must do similar….

If it is Hull v Boro, very unlikely that takes place on the Saturday as we'd appeal. So no advantage gained there.

Hull can prepare to face us until anyone says otherwise.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, coalman said:

Same. I think his reaction to whatever Hellberg said on the touchline was pretty telling in terms of whether he has been involved or not.

Yep. I reckon Hellberg called him a cheat and Tonda gave him a twin barrelled denial. 

[egg]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Is an ex-employee of a given club allowed to pass on confidential information to another club if said information is deemed to uncover a wrong-doing, or is all information confidential regardless of it's status?

In the context of this charge, too much is being put on the rights or wrongs of the evidence gathering imo. The tribunal, I would imagine, will be more focused in facts, not how they came to light. 

[Mboto Gorge]

2 hours ago, SaintsLoyal said:

This needs airing on here, to those that are playing it all down as many fans feel like this article and it wont change until those responsible have left the building after being sacked. Whilst, i dont believe the act merits expulsion based around the leeds fine, the whole situation now seeing our club around the world being described as 'cheats' is shameful.  

 

https://smry.ai/www.thetimes.com/sport/football/article/spygate-southampton-middlesbrough-championshi-play-offs-zr72pp9hw

What an absolute sap. Fucking attention seeker

[James G]

7 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Whatever the outcome I would still like to hear what Tonda has to say. He seemed quite keen to speak (but couldn’t due to process) in the post match press conference on Tuesday 

Yeah, I noticed that as well

There's probably more to it that we don't know. The hill, bush, professional recording equipment, altercation etc.. has made me wonder what the truth is. And his exit might have been popping to the loo then leaving turned into something else more dramatic sounding. Who knows

[IFHP]

I think the verdict is we should be kicked out , BUT the logistics around that happening are too far complicated .

Boro should not go through as a result , and  that leaves the EFL with a problem . Who plays Hull ? SKY tv will want a game played as they’ve paid vast amounts of money for it . 
 

We are going to get a football sanction so if we don’t get kicked out then it will be points deduction. 
 

 

 

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Is an ex-employee of a given club allowed to pass on confidential information to another club if said information is deemed to uncover a wrong-doing, or is all information confidential regardless of it's status?

Goes to credibility ; a sacked Saints analyst, formerly of Middlesborough, gives a statement to his former employer that implicates the people who sacked him. Presumably he is still unemployed and open to offers from Teesside.

[coalman]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Is an ex-employee of a given club allowed to pass on confidential information to another club if said information is deemed to uncover a wrong-doing, or is all information confidential regardless of it's status?

There is a general concept in law around whistleblower protection though that's more for people still employed in the role and history shows that people who have relied on that protection have had a bad time.

The question would be whether he has the evidence or has said that there is evidence. If he still has evidence is it because we sent it to his personal phone or because he kept confidential information after he left. If it's the former then we're idiots and whoever is running our IT security needs shooting (see all the Tory ministers using WhatsApp during COVID). If the latter then he's unemployable because all future employers will know that he keeps confidential information after he has finished his role.