The Spygate Saga

[Midfield_General]

3 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I'd love to believe this, just like I really wanted to believe that they were keeping a dignified silence in the lead up to the hearing and had an ace up their sleeve to play. 

Sadly, as has been pointed out many times of the last few weeks, wherever SR are concerned you should always lean heavily towards incompetence as the explanation. Because it always turns out the be right one. 

Every. Single. Time.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

36 minutes ago, BarberSaint said:

There was no 'crime'. 

 

There was an alleged breach (admitted) of a thing that has no real weight in law directly: Uberrima Fides and breach of a specific article, the terms surrounding which had not been drafted anywhere near well enough for them to not be subject to serious scrutiny and certainly watering-down were they ever tested robustly.

I went to the pictures with Uberrima Fides once. The Firm, as that's the sort of thing she liked. It were all right.

[benjii]

CAS is an arbitral body, it's not a sovereign court. Any arbitration is only possible if the parties involve have signed a valid arbitration agreement. In this case, the EFL rules are the arbitration agreement and the arbitral panel was the band of eeejits cobbled together by the appointed resolution body. If the arbitration agreement says no recourse to CAS then it's binding.

However, an arbitration agreement must still comply with the law and cannot be used to create perverse legal consequences. So a court challenge is still possible.

I don't think we will do; but that's the framework.

Edited Tuesday at 18:32 by benjii

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

57 minutes ago, benjii said:

CAS is an arbitral body, it's not a sovereign court. Any arbitration is only possible if the parties involve have signed a valid arbitration agreement. In this case, the EFL rules are the arbitration agreement and the arbitral panel was the band of eeejits cobbled together by the appointed resolution body. If the arbitration agreement says no recourse to CAS then it's binding.

However, an arbitration agreement must still comply with the law and cannot be used to create perverse legal consequences. So a court challenge is still possible.

I don't think we will do; but that's the framework.

I'm hoping this isn't over. As time goes on, there will be a feeling of 'it's done, let's forget about it and move on' and as the events of the last couple of weeks become more distant, there's a likelihood this feeling will become more entrenched

Middlesbrough acted sub-judice. Their 'integrity' has to be questioned. Process wasn't followed and decisions were made by a kangeroo panel and board. There's plenty to investigate and a lot riding on it. So, I for one, want to see a court challenge.

[St Chalet]

The EFL should ask all teams, on the the threat of automatic relegation or expulsion should it be proved otherwise untrue, to sign an affadavit that they did not spy on opponents in season 2025/26.

Loads of this would have gone on, we just got caught.

 

[Harry_SFC]

Sorry if already posted but this is interesting 

https://www.insideworldfootball.com/2026/05/26/op-ed-sir-nicholas-mostyn-kc-soutampton-fc-admiral-byng-is-shot-again/

Edit - ignore, just seen it on the previous page

Edited Tuesday at 19:51 by Harry_SFC

[trousers]

Even Gary Barlow's started to take the piss now...

 

 

 

P.s. first post on this thread for 11 hours... 'spygate' fatigue kicking in at long last...?

Edited Wednesday at 07:44 by trousers

[Saint Garrett]

On 15/05/2026 at 00:30, LeG said:

Will say more when it’s done and give context. I’d be moronic to do that now on a public forum. No order from the top though. 
 

 

Cmon then LeG...

[hypochondriac]

15 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Cmon then LeG...

Yeah I was waiting for this too. The only true ITK on the forum.

[Doctoroncall]

Just for the record 

Spy gate the original

Guardian certainly changed their tune 7 years on, but that was the great Bielsa. 

Spy gate 2.0

Different author and no comments on the last article.

 

[trousers]

On 14/05/2026 at 17:15, LeG said:

Dragan / the board are fuming. 

 

On 15/05/2026 at 00:30, LeG said:

Will say more when it’s done and give context. I’d be moronic to do that now on a public forum. No order from the top though. 
 

 

 

2 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

Cmon then LeG...

 

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Yeah I was waiting for this too. The only true ITK on the forum.

I assume we're not yet up to the "when it's done" point on @LeG's timeline, given we're still waiting for the club to deal with the fallout....?

[LGTL]

I received my refund today, so that’s something at least. 

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, LGTL said:

I received my refund today, so that’s something at least. 

I think they've made a mistake and given you mine 😔

[hypochondriac]

20 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

 

 

I assume we're not yet up to the "when it's done" point on @LeG's timeline, given we're still waiting for the club to deal with the fallout....?

Doing some snooping on his profile and the last thing he liked was a comment about Tonda being keen to speak. I wonder if that is a suggestion that he isn't as bang to rights or as clearly guilty as we may think? Also said that Larin will sign if we want him which is good news. Hope Stewart can too.

[Saint In Cornwall]

24 minutes ago, LGTL said:

I received my refund today, so that’s something at least. 

I have also received mine today. £162.50

[Viking Saint]

32 minutes ago, LGTL said:

I received my refund today, so that’s something at least. 

Did you get an email to let you know or does it just appear back on your account??

[RedArmy]

36 minutes ago, LGTL said:

I received my refund today, so that’s something at least. 

I got a notification to say it’s been issued but still waiting for the money in the bank. 

[West Dean FC Legend]

Bad news everyone. 

Looks like we might have lost our Champions of Cheating title. West Bromwich Albion are now being investigated thoroughly - not sure what they did to Middlesbrough but lots of talk of them being 'huge cheats'....oh well we can't even win that challenge.

[tdmickey3]

2 minutes ago, West Dean FC Legend said:

Bad news everyone. 

Looks like we might have lost our Champions of Cheating title. West Bromwich Albion are now being investigated thoroughly - not sure what they did to Middlesbrough but lots of talk of them being 'huge cheats'....oh well we can't even win that challenge.

Lots of teams are at it, the whole thing is an complete overreaction to very little

Edited Wednesday at 13:17 by tdmickey3

[Willo of Whiteley]

57 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

 

 

I assume we're not yet up to the "when it's done" point on @LeG's timeline, given we're still waiting for the club to deal with the fallout....?

Tumbleweed

[Graffito]

1 hour ago, Doctoroncall said:

Just for the record 

Spy gate the original

Guardian certainly changed their tune 7 years on, but that was the great Bielsa. 

Spy gate 2.0

Different author and no comments on the last article.

 

Yeah quite a turnaround in 7 years (and not just the Guardian of course)which can’t be explained simply by the introduction post Bielsa of rule 127. The media onslaught instigated by Boro probably helped set the tone.

Incidentally, the author of the second article says “The EFL regulation [127] refers to “sporting sanction”. It is hard to see what that could amount to and still be meaningful if it were not to award the game to Middlesbrough.”

Does it? Perhaps I’m misreading it the regulation. This is one of the issues. Had the EFL introduced a clear sporting sanction with regulation 127 none of this would have happened. As it was, we know at least one club was stupid enough to think it could observe opposition training during the 72 hour prohibition and simply pay a £200,000 fine.

[Tamesaint]

27 minutes ago, West Dean FC Legend said:

Bad news everyone. 

Looks like we might have lost our Champions of Cheating title. West Bromwich Albion are now being investigated thoroughly - not sure what they did to Middlesbrough but lots of talk of them being 'huge cheats'....oh well we can't win that challenge.

Bloody hell. Just when I thought we had won some silver. 

Source??? 

[edprice1984]

I am sure it's been referenced elsewhere, probably on the Tonda Stay or Go thread - but as Bielsa is leaving the Uruguay job at the end of the World Cup, we have the chance to do something truly amazing.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, West Dean FC Legend said:

Bad news everyone. 

Looks like we might have lost our Champions of Cheating title. West Bromwich Albion are now being investigated thoroughly - not sure what they did to Middlesbrough but lots of talk of them being 'huge cheats'....oh well we can't even win that challenge.

Have you made this up? I've searched and can find nothing about West Brom being huge cheats.

[Doctoroncall]

1 hour ago, Tamesaint said:

Bloody hell. Just when I thought we had won some silver. 

Source??? 

A post on the ugly I believe. 

[saintant]

8 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

A post on the ugly I believe. 

Not that I can see. There's a thread about Steve Grant suggesting that another team may have cheated - this stems from something he said on the latest Total Saints Podcast but nowhere is there any mention of West Brom. I think it's a wind up.

[trousers]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Larin will sign if we want him which is good news. Hope Stewart can too.

Just need them both to keep a low profile during the World Cup first...

[suewhistle]

Was it on this thread that I read that a lot of the evidence  that the EFL relied on was oral? Was it subject to cross-examination? Stupid question, I know..

Does _anyone_ emerge from this affair with any credit?

[Draino76]

Song for Middlesborough:

We're in your head, in your head! 

Spygate, spygate.

And repeat 😀

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

Still a lot of self righteous boro fans on Reddit continually calling Saints scum.

Although I think there are fair few skates mixed in there too.

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

Still a lot of self righteous boro fans on Reddit continually calling Saints scum.

Although I think there are fair few skates mixed in there too.

They are a weird crowd, quite why they're still going on about us I don't know. They're fools as well, all they are doing is adding spice on our favour for the next match - they got out of the whole affair with everything they wanted from us - whereas us as fans (and the players), and indeed the whole squad will be going for them all guns blazing. You think they'd stop feeding that fire at some points but no 😅

Edited 19 hours ago by Saint86

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

5 hours ago, Saint86 said:

They are a weird crowd, quite why they're still going on about us I don't know. They're fools as well, all they are doing is adding spice on our favour for the next match - they got out of the whole affair with everything they wanted from us - whereas us as fans (and the players), and indeed the whole squad will be going for them all guns blazing. You think they'd stop feeding that fire at some points but no 😅

I get it that Saints cheated. The 72 hour rule was broken and we gained knowledge to our advantage. 

However some of the vitriol is laughable and a little unhinged. 

[StrangelyBrown]

10 minutes ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

I get it that Saints cheated. The 72 hour rule was broken and we gained knowledge to our advantage. 

However some of the vitriol is laughable and a little unhinged. 

Understandable when you've got nothing better to do than spend your life smoking crack and drinking meths while waiting for your next benefit cheque

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, rallyboy said:

Gibson will be running another media campaign to get Tonda a lengthy ban

Personally I think Gibson has zero interest in this whatsoever.

People on here can create their own nemesis or bogeyman if you like but Gibson's objective was to get into the play off final. He achieved it. He hasn't got some obsession with getting our manager banned/sacked/whatever. He likely couldn't give a flying fuck.

 

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Personally I think Gibson has zero interest in this whatsoever.

People on here can create their own nemesis or bogeyman if you like but Gibson's objective was to get into the play off final. He achieved it. He hasn't got some obsession with getting our manager banned/sacked/whatever. He likely couldn't give a flying fuck.

 

Exactly. His job is to go into bat for his side...and he does and does it well.

[EssEffCee]

10 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Can the FA actually get rid of him? If he wasn’t acting alone for example, do you get rid of everyone? They can’t sack him, they don’t employ him. They could suspend him, but for how long? We have already seen that the EFL struggle with proportionality. Anything that the FA does sets another precedent. A fine? Suspension? A scapegoat or everybody directly involved with the decision making? Dragan as owner?

The EFL have already dug themselves into a very deep hole. Will the FA want to follow? The club have already received a brutal sentence. Anything else will be like spitting on the carcus.

If SFC were in the EPL when this happened we wouldn’t even be talking about this. How does the FA deal with something that is not good faith in one league but not a problem in another? Yes, technically we broke the rules and that is what they will focus on, but the problem they have, as do the EFL, is the weakness of the rule itself. What is a proportional punishment for such a badly thought out rule?

Why have the EFL dug themselves a very deep hole? 

[rallyboy]

25 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Personally I think Gibson has zero interest in this whatsoever.

People on here can create their own nemesis or bogeyman if you like but Gibson's objective was to get into the play off final. He achieved it. He hasn't got some obsession with getting our manager banned/sacked/whatever. He likely couldn't give a flying fuck.

 

Zero interest? He's been obsessed with Saints for weeks.

He wants us weaker next season so I'd be amazed if he's drawn a line under it.

And he's the one who had to create a bogeyman, to distract from his own failures and his manager totally fucking up their season.

 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, rallyboy said:

Zero interest? He's been obsessed with Saints for weeks.

He wants us weaker next season so I'd be amazed if he's drawn a line under it.

And he's the one who had to create a bogeyman, to distract from his own failures and his manager totally fucking up their season.

 

He is not obsessed with Saints, I do not recall Boro mentioned the club (other than the sale of Azaz) until we got caught out cheating on them. Nothing in the build up to the game/playoffs until this.

He saw the opportunity and took it.

[hypochondriac]

27 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Exactly. His job is to go into bat for his side...and he does and does it well.

And he did a much better job of it than our side.

[obelisk]

16 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

systemic cheating

A spot of scouting your opponent is widespread and all part of the game, especially if they're doing their drills in public. Get a grip!

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, obelisk said:

A spot of scouting your opponent is widespread and all part of the game, especially if they're doing their drills in public. Get a grip!

Why did we admit to cheating (after lying about it), if it was just a spot of scouting?

[CB Fry]

8 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Zero interest? He's been obsessed with Saints for weeks.

He wants us weaker next season so I'd be amazed if he's drawn a line under it.

And he's the one who had to create a bogeyman, to distract from his own failures and his manager totally fucking up their season.

 

No he hasn't. He was obsessed with getting Middlesbrough into the play off final.

That's it. He doesn't care about us any more.

[obelisk]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Why did we admit to cheating (after lying about it), if it was just a spot of scouting?

Don't ask me. I'd have told the EFL and the so-called "independent" panel to prove it and for "Gibbo" to buy a fence. Saints and some supporters need to get off their knees.

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Don't ask me. I'd have told the EFL and the so-called "independent" panel to prove it and for "Gibbo" to buy a fence. Saints and some supporters need to get off their knees.

Ah right, the club dropped to their knees and we never actually did anything wrong and admitted to something we never did.

 

Right oh

[Whitey Grandad]

33 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Christ alive.

We admitted to systemic cheating, got some points back for being honest (eventually), then kicked out of a knockout competition for cheating...which has happened in the EFL prior to this.

We may not like it, but we should never have set about to prolifically cheat

"systemic"

"prolifically"

Three games out of 46 does not qualify for these terms.

[Whitey Grandad]

9 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Don't ask me. I'd have told the EFL and the so-called "independent" panel to prove it and for "Gibbo" to buy a fence. Saints and some supporters need to get off their knees.

WhatsApp messages. Allegedly. 

[Midfield_General]

12 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Don't ask me. I'd have told the EFL and the so-called "independent" panel to prove it and for "Gibbo" to buy a fence. Saints and some supporters need to get off their knees.

They did have proof. They presented it. Which is why we got thrown out. 

Have you actually been following this at all?

Not that really they needed it mind, after that dickhead Phil ‘Half Term’ Parsons marched up to Gibson and admitted it in front of a room full of people before he’d even consulted a lawyer.

Edited 11 hours ago by Midfield_General

[obelisk]

1 minute ago, Midfield_General said:

They did have proof. They presented it. Which is why we got thrown out. 

Proof of a minor breach of a silly rule that didn't define a punishment. We got thrown out because "Gibbo" has friends in high places at the EFL, Saints went for a daft plea bargain and the "independent" panel had a conflict of interests that resulted in a punishment far outside any precedent or reasonableness.

If you'd been following this at all then you'd know all that.

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Proof of a minor breach of a silly rule that didn't define a punishment. We got thrown out because "Gibbo" has friends in high places at the EFL, Saints went for a daft plea bargain and the "independent" panel had a conflict of interests that resulted in a punishment far outside any precedent or reasonableness.

If you'd been following this at all then you'd know all that.

my word. No wonder Boro fans having a look on this place think we are insane.

[obelisk]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

No wonder Boro fans having a look on this place think we are insane

"Gibbo" and his fans will be looking at this place and laughing at the surrendering self-immolation displayed by some. Presumably you'll be applauding the sporting chaps at 'Boro when they turn up at St Mary's next season before expecting Saints to throw the game as a measure of their ongoing guilt.

As I said, get a grip.