Watford 2-1 Saints - Match Thread

[saintstowin]

I'm finding (some) consolation in that despite how poor the team were we would have escaped but for individual mistakes. As soon as we turned up we were way better but unfortunately were chasing too much. 

Plus he won't play Scienza in that position again, hopefully. 

Shame Azaz wasn't fit to start because that led to many of the tactical issues.

I hope Dobbin will improve.

Hopefully Tonda learns. He's shown he can.

I didn't like how they made me feel in the first half.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, saintstowin said:

I'm finding (some) consolation in that despite how poor the team were we would have escaped but for individual mistakes. As soon as we turned up we were way better but unfortunately were chasing too much. 

Plus he won't play Scienza in that position again, hopefully. 

Shame Azaz wasn't fit to start because that led to many of the tactical issues.

I hope Dobbin will improve.

Hopefully Tonda learns. He's shown he can.

I didn't like how they made me feel in the first half.

Agreed. Had we played to our ability then we would have won. No evidence they were a superior team to us. That first half was unacceptable.

[stfrancisofbenali]

Scienza should never take corners as he inexplicably can’t beat the first man. Can anyone explain why Ramsdale doesn’t make the bench as our back up keeper? We’re paying his (significant) wages and he’s surely better than Long. 

[Appy]

Are we starting to turn teams around at the toss away from home? 
 

Not a fan of that at all, should be shooting towards the away end second half. 

[Badger]

We were always going to lose again at some point the unbeaten in the league wasn’t going to last.

Best get it out of the system early. Hopefully it dismissed any complacency and underlines to Tonda, Spors and Dragan the need for reinforcements. Proper ones, not Youth Experience schemes from Man City, or another Archer.

Tonda should be rattling their doors tonight for the CM, CF, and Anel.

But as for todays fuck up, I think the Adkins “draw a blue line under it” comes to mind. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

3 minutes ago, saintstowin said:

Shame Azaz wasn't fit to start because that led to many of the tactical issues.

If that was the case, I'd rather he started than come on. Could have used him for 60 odd minutes and if he was flagging take him off. 

[Sheaf Saint]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

If that was the case, I'd rather he started than come on. Could have used him for 60 odd minutes and if he was flagging take him off. 

I have to disagree. A semi-fit Azaz up against the physicality Watford showed in the first half wouldn't have been able to impact the game in any way.

[bangkoksaint]

Just watching JWP giving a lesson on how to cross. Can’t help but feel he’d have strengthened us this season 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, Sheaf Saint said:

I have to disagree. A semi-fit Azaz up against the physicality Watford showed in the first half wouldn't have been able to impact the game in any way.

Possibly, but by the same token, we wouldn't have had to change system if he started. If's and but's now though.

[Sheaf Saint]

58 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

🤪  September 2007 was the last time Watford beat us at their place

Really? That surprises me. I can't think of any wins we've had there in that time, but I can think of a few disappointing draws. Last season for one, and the Doucoure handball equaliser in the pre- VAR days in the PL also springs to mind. 

I also vividly remember going to the match on a cold New Year's Day in the mid noughties when we were utterly woeful and got tonked 3-0. 

[AlexLaw76]

12 minutes ago, stfrancisofbenali said:

Scienza should never take corners as he inexplicably can’t beat the first man. Can anyone explain why Ramsdale doesn’t make the bench as our back up keeper? We’re paying his (significant) wages and he’s surely better than Long. 

Ramsdale is not our back up keeper.

he has no future at this club what so ever 

[AlexLaw76]

I hope playing Leo in the middle (as we saw a few time towards the end of last season) does not become a point of frustration like we had with the 3 at the back mess last season. Where some were determined to tell us formations do not matter 

[Badger]

22 minutes ago, stfrancisofbenali said:

Scienza should never take corners as he inexplicably can’t beat the first man. Can anyone explain why Ramsdale doesn’t make the bench as our back up keeper? We’re paying his (significant) wages and he’s surely better than Long. 

Perhaps there is also a fear that if we needed to bring him on he might be injured before the window ends. Club might view it differently in September if he’s still here. 

[Football Special]

11 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Ramsdale is not our back up keeper.

he has no future at this club what so ever 

He played for the u21s the other night, not sure why having him on bench for first team should be a problem 

[Saint Matty 76]

Only one (further) point lost on West Ham, Wolves and Burnley. 

Could've been worse.

[skintsaint]

6 minutes ago, Football Special said:

He played for the u21s the other night, not sure why having him on bench for first team should be a problem 

Probably to cut costs, he may have a matchday appearance fee in his cone-tract.

[Saint Billy]

I've just got so use to us starting the season badly whoever our manager is, the players we have or what league we are in, we are always shite the first few games.

[CB Fry]

55 minutes ago, Window Cleaner said:

Modern football, only the Old Guard still despise the Skates to the previously required and appropriate  level.

I'm 50 next year and had a lifetime of seeing Saints playing in blue away kits for decades and decades.

Just a few fucking bellends who pretend we've never done that and we somehow look like Portsmouth if we do.

What "Old guard" are you talking about? 

[Chez]

In my head the league winners never lose the first game of the season or indeed any of the first four or five games. No idea if that's accurate?

[Lighthouse]

50 minutes ago, Pilchards said:

How on earth did Woods who did brilliantly last season find himself on the bench again for that carthorse?

I'd wager that keeping three clean sheets in league games he started last season probably had something to do with it.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

Shocking start. On paper a very strong team and they looked shite. Jack Steph ns shouldn't be anywhere near that team and the first signing saints should have made this summer was a CB. 

The game should've been like a cup final with Saints looking to undo the -4pt start in the first 2 games. 

We drew at Watford last season and lost this year so we're already 6 points down on last season. 

[Lighthouse]

44 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Really? That surprises me. I can't think of any wins we've had there in that time, but I can think of a few disappointing draws. Last season for one, and the Doucoure handball equaliser in the pre- VAR days in the PL also springs to mind. 

I also vividly remember going to the match on a cold New Year's Day in the mid noughties when we were utterly woeful and got tonked 3-0. 

We had a 4-3 win their under Puel, within a couple of weeks of the Cup final IIRC, with Gabbiadini scoring twice. I'm pretty sure Lambert got a hattrick there too on the way up in 2012.

I remember that NYD game (at SMS) being one of the most incompetent managerial displays I've ever seen. Vignal was a decent Championship LB, or failing that Skacel did a more than adequate job... nope; Jermaine Wright! Burley sat there like a clueless lemon, 3-0 for most of the second half, then sent on Adam Hammill in the 89th minute. That was the day he completely lost the fan base, he ended up in Scotland a few weeks after.

[sockeye]

15 minutes ago, Chez said:

In my head the league winners never lose the first game of the season or indeed any of the first four or five games. No idea if that's accurate?

Last league winners to lose their opening game were Newcastle in 2016-17. Nearly every one over the last 10 years has lost at least once in the opening 5 though.

[LaptopSaint]

That’s cool. I don’t want to win the league. I want to beat Middlesbrough in the play off final at Wembley. 

[Sheaf Saint]

8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I remember that NYD game (at SMS) being one of the most incompetent managerial displays I've ever seen. Vignal was a decent Championship LB, or failing that Skacel did a more than adequate job... nope; Jermaine Wright! Burley sat there like a clueless lemon, 3-0 for most of the second half, then sent on Adam Hammill in the 89th minute. That was the day he completely lost the fan base, he ended up in Scotland a few weeks after.

That wasn't the one I was thinking of. Just googled it and it was actually Boxing Day 2005, not NYD.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/match/_/gameId/185144/southampton-watford

[trousers]

I'm hoping that our below par start was mainly down to a somewhat half-baked pre-season and that once we're firing on all cylinders then 'normal service' will resume.

We need to address the large Shea Charles sized gap in midfield pronto though...

If we were 7 points off an auto-promotion spot around Christmas, we'd probably fancy our chances of closing the gap, so nowhere near panic stations yet... 

Edited 2 hours ago by trousers

[LiberalCommunist]

First day defeat shocker. 

Never would have predicted that. 

Time to lower expectations and grow thicker skin. 

This will be tough. 

Hoping we now start to get the siege mentality we desperately need. 

Jack was shit today. But don't write him off. He will be important. 

 

[LoyalSaintSO50]

Are we just shit at the start of every season? In my 50s now and I remember us taking West Ham apart at home in the 80s on an opening game and I know we got over the line against Wrexham last season but generally I get home from holiday in August after 2 weeks of drinking and still feel better prepared 

[Convict Colony]

it's almost like everyone is surprised we started crap, you would of thought you'd all be used to it by now.

Chill Stephens cant be that shit 2 games in a row

[Cuddles]

1 hour ago, sockeye said:

Last league winners to lose their opening game were Newcastle in 2016-17. Nearly every one over the last 10 years has lost at least once in the opening 5 though.

We normally come second when promoted though, no?

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Saint Billy said:

I've just got so use to us starting the season badly whoever our manager is, the players we have or what league we are in, we are always shite the first few games.

There are a few exceptions. When we won the first four games in 2011/12 season I think we knew we were on to something good.

[Forester]

2 hours ago, MB said:

Matski is useless & Dobbin was awful recruitment 

poor decisions today by Tonda too. 

Matsuki (spell it correctly) was a key component of a team that was unbeaten over twenty plus matches, and Dobbin has played one game.

Are you aged 12?

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

Concerned about the lack of urgency. Quite liked Manning's performance today but that sideways pass that was intercepted was indicative of our first half performance. Sideways and backwards doesn't score goals and leads to mistakes.

Dobbin needs time to settle in to the team but didn't like his lightweight challenges on 50/50 balls. Bragg was too slow and didn't look forward. Matsuki was pushed off the ball the whole time. Their physicality put us off early on. Downes excellent as usual and we had better keep THB.  

[Forester]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Really? That surprises me. I can't think of any wins we've had there in that time, but I can think of a few disappointing draws. Last season for one, and the Doucoure handball equaliser in the pre- VAR days in the PL also springs to mind. 

I also vividly remember going to the match on a cold New Year's Day in the mid noughties when we were utterly woeful and got tonked 3-0. 

I remember either a 5-4 or 4-3 win for us a few years back 

[sockeye]

15 minutes ago, Cuddles said:

We normally come second when promoted though, no?

Indeed, always the bridesmaid.

[die Mannyschaft]

3 hours ago, dsrdorset said:

It was men against boys today, especially in the first half. Bunch of fannies, bullied by an average Watford side. Stephens needs to not play in a Saints shirt again, sorry. Dobbin crap. System all wrong in the first half. THB missed a sitter to get us out of jail. Pollock was great for them. We need to sign at least 1 CB, if not 2. 

The club really need to reign in all these stupid social media posts, sick of it now. I wish the players would stop getting involved with them, it's fucking embarrassing. Get your fucking heads down, work fucking hard, and we might just have a sniff at the playoffs. 

7 points adrift already. I'm already calling it, we are not going up automatically. 

Agree the social media stuff is embarrassing. OK take some team shots and match footage but keep it at that. The comments on FB plus the Echo the same is full of Boro fans and other clubs now just going on about cheating. Need to concentrate on football 

[Chez]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I hope playing Leo in the middle (as we saw a few time towards the end of last season) does not become a point of frustration like we had with the 3 at the back mess last season. Where some were determined to tell us formations do not matter 

I thought we brought Dobbin to play in the hole? Why did we play Scienza there?

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

I'm 50 next year and had a lifetime of seeing Saints playing in blue away kits for decades and decades.

Just a few fucking bellends who pretend we've never done that and we somehow look like Portsmouth if we do.

What "Old guard" are you talking about? 

I think we had a blue away kit for most of my childhood. The light and dark blue keegan kit, then the light blue one with bits on the shoulders from 85-87, we had the blue kit early 90s that we wore for the the ZDS final then the blue pony kit. I reckon between 1980 and 1995 we had blue away kits for about 10-12 years. Doesnt make the current one any good mind but we’ve done it regularly in the last 50+ years 

Edited 58 minutes ago by Turkish

[stknowle]

46 minutes ago, LoyalSaintSO50 said:

Are we just shit at the start of every season? In my 50s now and I remember us taking West Ham apart at home in the 80s on an opening game and I know we got over the line against Wrexham last season but generally I get home from holiday in August after 2 weeks of drinking and still feel better prepared 

Battered Leeds 3-1 in Adkins promotion season (one of the best displays we’ve ever put in let alone on first day of season) and scraped a 0-1 at Coventry, Ostenstad scored. Think that’s it apart from the Wham and Wrexham ones you referenced above. IN. MY. LIFE.

Edited 57 minutes ago by stknowle

[Roo1976]

1 hour ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Only one (further) point lost on West Ham, Wolves and Burnley. 

Could've been worse.

hey we've only got to make top 8 this season...................

[Cuddles]

8 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

Agree the social media stuff is embarrassing. OK take some team shots and match footage but keep it at that. The comments on FB plus the Echo the same is full of Boro fans and other clubs now just going on about cheating. Need to concentrate on football 

It's unbelievable how salty Karen FC are still. Pathetic!

[Badger]

4 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Battered Leeds 3-1 in Adkins promotion season (one of the best displays we’ve ever put in let alone on first day of season) and scraped a 0-1 at Coventry, Ostenstad scored. Think that’s it apart from the Wham one you referenced IN. MY. LIFE.

West Brom away , last minute penalty under Poch. 

Colin Clarke hatrick in 1986 v QPR. I think that was first game of the season. And his home debut. 
 

Also, and it might pre-date your interest but we beat West Brom 4-0 at The Dell in 1976.

Edited 53 minutes ago by Badger

[Roo1976]

4 hours ago, benjii said:

Pretty good performance, with two big errors costing us.

Controlled the game, created enough, barely threatened by Watford.

One of them days.

but controlling the game and making 15 passes go 10 foot, and nothing to show, dosent mean we controlled the game when we were 2 nil down............disappointing yes, but things will improve I'm sure,just think there are going to be 1 or 2 more significant comings and goings yet before the transfers are all done...........

[SaintTex]

2 hours ago, bangkoksaint said:

Just watching JWP giving a lesson on how to cross. Can’t help but feel he’d have strengthened us this season 

how ironic that JWP leaves us to avoid playing in the Championship, to spend 3 miserable years in the PL, just to find himself back playing in the Championship.

[Badger]

6 minutes ago, SaintTex said:

how ironic that JWP leaves us to avoid playing in the Championship, to spend 3 miserable years in the PL, just to find himself back playing in the Championship.

Doubt his Accountant,Bank Manager, or wife have given him any grief on the matter. 

[LoyalSaintSO50]

18 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Battered Leeds 3-1 in Adkins promotion season (one of the best displays we’ve ever put in let alone on first day of season) and scraped a 0-1 at Coventry, Ostenstad scored. Think that’s it apart from the Wham and Wrexham ones you referenced above. IN. MY. LIFE.

Oh yeah good knowledge. It is bizarre that across many different managers and squads over the years with various different opponents, squads, transfer rumours etc that we are consistently fkin wank when the season starts. Incredible, and I can’t even blame anyone other than myself for thinking today was gonna be different! 
Oh well, we’ll smash Stoke on Saturday, I’m almost sure 

[EssEffCee]

23 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Battered Leeds 3-1 in Adkins promotion season (one of the best displays we’ve ever put in let alone on first day of season) and scraped a 0-1 at Coventry, Ostenstad scored. Think that’s it apart from the Wham and Wrexham ones you referenced above. IN. MY. LIFE.

Sheffield Wednesday under Martin.

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, SaintTex said:

how ironic that JWP leaves us to avoid playing in the Championship, to spend 3 miserable years in the PL, just to find himself back playing in the Championship.

I think it was lore the fact we needed him off the payroll than him desperately trying to leave 

[Turkish]

24 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Battered Leeds 3-1 in Adkins promotion season (one of the best displays we’ve ever put in let alone on first day of season) and scraped a 0-1 at Coventry, Ostenstad scored. Think that’s it apart from the Wham and Wrexham ones you referenced above. IN. MY. LIFE.

4 wins in last 27 years according to fitz

 

[AlexLaw76]

10 minutes ago, SaintTex said:

how ironic that JWP leaves us to avoid playing in the Championship, to spend 3 miserable years in the PL, just to find himself back playing in the Championship.

He left us as we had to sell