Saints 1-4 West Ham - Match Thread

[tdmickey3]

1 minute ago, Wade Garrett said:

Tonda doesn’t deserve any credit.  Cost us the chance of Premier League football because he cheated.

He will be banned soon.

[Disco Stu]

1 hour ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Chill out lads it’s the Carabao Cup

We’ll get some new players in over the next week and be sound. Tonda and the players deserve a lot more credit after last season that they’re being given right now

I'm still backing Tonda but he's spent the credit he had in the bank after the spying scandal. He'll need to earn back that trust.

Edited 19 hours ago by Disco Stu

[Osvaldorama]

Have the club ever explained why we only played a couple of German farmers for pre-season?

 

We looked lethargic and unfit again tonight, as we have done since the season began.
 

I can’t help but feel like our preparation was completely undercooked. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

Any journos brave enough to ask some hard questions about whether he’ll persist with players that clearly aren’t up to it?

[Katalinic]

34 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Honestly against a physical Millwall I’d prefer quarshie even over the more solid version of Stephens, let alone the current subpar version.

From a physicality perspective the Millwall game could look like an U18's side playing the U8's. So many weak, non-aggressive players in the squad. 

[tdmickey3]

2 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Any journos brave enough to ask some hard questions about whether he’ll persist with players that clearly aren’t up to it?

No

[captainchris]

4 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Have the club ever explained why we only played a couple of German farmers for pre-season?

 

We looked lethargic and unfit again tonight, as we have done since the season began.
 

I can’t help but feel like our preparation was completely undercooked. 

100% this. WHY ! Why did we not play the best teams we can lay our hands on pre season? We always do this, lucky if we play one decent team pre season and this year none at all!!! 

[LoyalSaintSO50]

Where the fuck do you start with that? Lose the will to live if I go back through that second half but ffs, can’t even price it correctly to avoid looking like a total embarrassment. Usual garbage start to a season 

[VectisSaint]

5 minutes ago, captainchris said:

100% this. WHY ! Why did we not play the best teams we can lay our hands on pre season? We always do this, lucky if we play one decent team pre season and this year none at all!!! 

Paderborn are Bundesliga, top flight. Admittedly promoted last season but still you can't say we didn't play at least some decent opposition.

I think one thing was overlooked was that this was Tonda's first pre-season. Totally inexperienced in getting a team up to speed after the summer break. Maybe it is showing.

[saintant]

Tonight was an accident waiting to happen. We started the game with a midfield that included neither Downes, Jander or Charles - the latter two for obvious reasons. These 3 guys were the mainstay of last season's midfield. With none of them on the pitch and a defence marshalled by the hapless Capn Jack the result and performance was inevitable.

[LGTL]

Where the fuck is Jander? Walked off at Eastleigh 6 weeks ago and hasn’t been seen since. Are we still to believe he’s ‘injured’?

[Football Special]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

Tonight was an accident waiting to happen. We started the game with a midfield that included neither Downes, Jander or Charles - the latter two for obvious reasons. These 3 guys were the mainstay of last season's midfield. With none of them on the pitch and a defence marshalled by the hapless Capn Jack the result and performance was inevitable.

Yeah over the 90 minutes the gulf in class was alarming. No midfield presence they just brushed us off the ball and took control. 

Defence was very poor. 

End of the day West Ham (players and fans) just looked like they wanted it more , no complaints with the score 

 

[SaintNewForest]

8 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Paderborn are Bundesliga, top flight. Admittedly promoted last season but still you can't say we didn't play at least some decent opposition.

I think one thing was overlooked was that this was Tonda's first pre-season. Totally inexperienced in getting a team up to speed after the summer break. Maybe it is showing.

Surely we have experienced football people in the background who assist with planning pre-season? 

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Where the fuck is Jander? Walked off at Eastleigh 6 weeks ago and hasn’t been seen since. Are we still to believe he’s ‘injured’?

Eckert said before the Stoke game that he was "close", with a chance of featuring tonight, but more likely versus Millwall... I guess we're about to find how much of that might have been bullshit...

[Football Special]

5 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Where the fuck is Jander? Walked off at Eastleigh 6 weeks ago and hasn’t been seen since. Are we still to believe he’s ‘injured’?

Certainly seems odd, we're missing him big time, Bragg seems a good lad but didnt get a look in tonight 

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

The midfield was too lightweight tonight. Romeo was not used enough in the middle, there were a couple of occasions where he got the ball early and was able to drive forward but that was it.

Stephens, just poor. Not cut out for the role that THB was doing. 

Fellows, I don't get it. Yes, he takes man or two with him but what is the end result.

Desperately need a commanding centre back or two.

[Block 5]

Anyone know why the squad were at the Grand Harbour Hotel 90 minutes before the game? 

Is that normal? 

[davefizzy14]

First half I thought we were on top. Lovely goal from Leo 😊 Second half we didn't get started and we were too open. We have to be better defensively. We need a few more additions in the transfer market. 

Edited 20 hours ago by davefizzy14

[hypochondriac]

We 100% need the defence sorting but I think it's also clear that our main issue is in midfield. Leo is fine but with not a load of danger coming from the other wing, it doesn't push back the opposition players. Then the biggest problem is cm. No Charles who would be setting the tempo and driving forward. No Jander to demand the ball and keep it in the middle of the park. No Downes today to shield the defence. An already shaky defence isn't going to cope without a proper midfield. We saw the issue against Watford and particularly today in the second half. How are we going to sort the midfield, provide proper cover for the defence and the THB replacement and then get them all up to speed including Jander without dropping more points? I totally understand some of our business being done at the end of the window but we really shouldn't have been left in a position where our only really central midfield options are bragg and Downes with the alternatives being players playing out of position. The Charles replacement should be in by now.

Edited 19 hours ago by hypochondriac

[Football Special]

3 minutes ago, Block 5 said:

Anyone know why the squad were at the Grand Harbour Hotel 90 minutes before the game? 

Is that normal? 

Apparently Saturday games the players arrive in their cars, eat at the stadium etc , for some reason midweek games they prepare at the hotel and travel on coach together to the ground, not sure why 

[kitch]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

No one other than Larin and Azaz are playing at last season’s levels

And Downes IMO 

[Patches O Houlihan]

1 hour ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Chill out lads it’s the Carabao Cup

We’ll get some new players in over the next week and be sound. Tonda and the players deserve a lot more credit after last season that they’re being given right now

Tonight was shit - but it was less shit than getting humped at Gillingham under Russell Martin

[Oh no Mick Mills]

2 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Apparently Saturday games the players arrive in their cars, eat at the stadium etc , for some reason midweek games they prepare at the hotel and travel on coach together to the ground, not sure why 

We  always drive past the Leonardo Hotel on West Quay Rd ...(Used to be the Grand De Vere).

The Saints players are normally in there and we've seen them get back on the coach about 1.30 and head to the ground. 

[Oh no Mick Mills]

As for the game , it was crap tonight, poor performances all round but I'm certainly not going to crash out just yet! 

It's a 3 game week and we've won 1,  lost the irrelevant middle one , just need to get a decent result against Millwall and no one remembers this.

A draw wouldn't be a disaster either...

 

[cambsaint]

I have just watched one of  the most tacticallly inept, spineless and hopeless performances I have ever seen

Surely against a young inexperienced team we should have come out of the blocks hard and physical (like Watford) and tried to get 3 or 4 up before half time and before West Ham could bring their big guns on

We couldn't even keep the ball and move forward with speed and a cutting edge  against a youth team.

However there is the possibility it was all part of a tactical masterplan to ensure West Ham would be engaged in the Cup and be distracted from the league. (sarcasm intended)

If any of the players we were interested in watch that performance they won't come to us now.

I do however wonder whether the uncertainty over Tonda's future  and the loss of two key players without replacements may be having a very negative effect on the dressing room

[die Mannyschaft]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

Tonda doesn’t deserve any credit.  Cost us the chance of Premier League football because he cheated.

Should have gone before 2nd SF. Its back fired and Saints will never get rid of the cheat table expecially with social media and 100 clubs reminding us of it each week. 

[dsrdorset]

Just back from the game. It's almost midnight and I left the house at 6:30am this morning, did a full days work, rushed to St Marys, no dinner, no nothing, and was served up with that utter fucking shit show from both the club & players. Fucking humiliated by West Ham B side and their insufferable moronic fans. But frankly, our support was an embarrassment tonight, not helped by the absolute cretins at the club who got the ticket pricing completely wrong. 

I am bereft at the moment. I just saw a group of Saints players who just didn't give a shit. I am struggling to take one single positive from that game, and I have been a season ticket holder since 1992, so I have seen my fair share of crap Saints performances. 

Off to bed, fucking fuming. 

[woodsaint1]

14 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

Should have gone before 2nd SF. Its back fired and Saints will never get rid of the cheat table expecially with social media and 100 clubs reminding us of it each week. 

Who gives a fuck about social media and what other clubs think. In case you forgot, we've been beat 9-0....twice.

Piling on Tonda because we lost to West Ham in the League Cup is the definition of an overreaction. Lets see how we're looking at the end of the window

[Lighthouse]

I think I'll just file this under 'glad I was working this evening' and leave it at that.

[gallaghert366@yahoo.com]

I'm not convinced that SFC had any interest in progressing any further in this competition,

[HKsaint]

3 hours ago, coalman said:

We played three premier league teams last year. Beat two of them, including the champions. 

We haven't competed today. Last season we made it hard for teams to play against us. Today we've been easy to defend against because we're just so slow with the ball.

What makes the difference?

[austsaint]

4 hours ago, Saint Scott said:

A poor performance all round, notably Stephens again. One positive was Akachukwu, I thought he controlled the game in the first half showing lots of good qualities.

I'll reserve my judgements until the window shuts next week but clearly some work to be done. Spors came through last year in the final days of the window, let's hope he can replicate it 

Akachukwu was the one bright showing for Saints.  Though a different style of midfielder he is going to put pressure on the limited Bragg for the 4th cm place in the squad - assuming Jander stays and Charles is replaced.   Noticeable how the "form" of Bree and even Peretz seems to have dipped; likely Peretz' performances affected by THBs absence.

Edited 17 hours ago by austsaint

[austsaint]

3 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Anyone who ditches Russ/SR slow and sideways would be an improvement. Whether that’s him or a new face who knows. Cheltenham Town and Gloucester Rugby will be seeing a lot of me though. I can’t watch that garbage - it makes the Branfoot years look like peak Lawrie. 

I don't think Tonda wants to play Russball.   But without THB, Charles, Jander and Downes you're left with too many habitual sideways and backwards passers.   Unfortunately Bragg is a serial offender.     Strengthen midfield and find a ball playing CB and a faster style of play will reemerge.

[Saint Fan CaM]

We’ve lost three influential players from the spine of our starting 11 - THB, Charles and Stewart - plus there’s a big Jander shaped hole in midfield too. Couple that with the calamity that is Stephens and Wood together and two attacking players that have yet to bed in and you’ve got a perfect storm of a squad in disarray. Using known flops like Edozie is another huge mistake.

I think I said weeks back that keeping the unbeaten side from last season together will be important in maintaining momentum especially in light of Spygate. So far Spors has not replaced THB, Charles or Stewart with quality suitable replacements and that might be the defining factor for this season unless he’s got something remarkable up his sleeve. This is SR, so no-one is holding their breath. We’ll be lucky to reach top 8 playing like we did this evening.

Edited 16 hours ago by Saint Fan CaM

[64saint]

4 hours ago, HKsaint said:

What makes the difference?

Fitness 

[Jack]

Men against boys, despite West Ham playing their kids. Pathetic. Clear lack of leaders in that side last night, the one who’s supposed to be a leader is a fucking calamity and needs removing from the starting XI asap. 

[EssEffCee]

Changed my mind on the pricing. Well done the club, meant I didnt travel to St Mary's to watch that shite.

[adrian lord]

7 hours ago, gallaghert366@yahoo.com said:

I'm not convinced that SFC had any interest in progressing any further in this competition,

We can concentrate in the league now 😉.  Good. 

[sadoldgit]

9 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

Tonda doesn’t deserve any credit.  Cost us the chance of Premier League football because he cheated.

We didn’t achieve what we did because “he cheated”. The unbeaten run was down to getting the most out of the players available, plus some luck. You are another one who has fallen for Gibbo’s guff. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, sadoldgit said:

We didn’t achieve what we did because “he cheated”. The unbeaten run was down to getting the most out of the players available, plus some luck. You are another one who has fallen for Gibbo’s guff. 

Aided by a sprinkling of premeditated cheating

[Fabrice29]

10 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

He will be banned soon.

Loving being able to contribute to the match day thread after the game again aren’t you. Hurrah for you.

[sfc4prem]

Well that was shite.

I see on the Millwall thread lots of people writing Tonda off as a yes man and incompetent.

It's a couple of games into the season.

Let's check back in a few months. Reckon we'll be alright this season. Playoffs maybe? Certainly not doom and gloom.

[Maggie May]

7 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

Well that was shite.

I see on the Millwall thread lots of people writing Tonda off as a yes man and incompetent.

It's a couple of games into the season.

Let's check back in a few months. Reckon we'll be alright this season. Playoffs maybe? Certainly not doom and gloom.

Crazy, isn’t it? The League Cup is so insignificant to our ultimate goal this season.  

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Maggie May said:

Crazy, isn’t it? The League Cup is so insignificant to our ultimate goal this season.  

Then why did we play 10 first team players. West Ham absolutely did not

[Football Special]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Then why did we play 10 first team players. West Ham absolutely did not

That's the contradiction isn't it, we played more first team players than West Ham but we also looked disinterested.

Scienza took his goal well but I worry he's slowly morphing into Ryan Fraser (both in appearance and dribbling style) 

[die Mannyschaft]

42 minutes ago, EssEffCee said:

Changed my mind on the pricing. Well done the club, meant I didnt travel to St Mary's to watch that shite.

Could have made it free entry and published it as an 'open training session ' with autographs and signings at side of pitch during the game. 

[Morse]

We could potentially lose 4 regular first team players, a CB, two from midfield, and a striker. That's a spine of a team! Unless they are adequately replaced soon we're going to get more shaftings like last night. 

[Window Cleaner]

34 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

We didn’t achieve what we did because “he cheated”. The unbeaten run was down to getting the most out of the players available, plus some luck. You are another one who has fallen for Gibbo’s guff. 

Honestly you can't possibly know what effect observing the opposition had or did not have.

As I've said before, if it is valueless clubs wouldn't do it, or employ analysts etc. 

 

[Gloucester Saint]

11 minutes ago, Football Special said:

That's the contradiction isn't it, we played more first team players than West Ham but we also looked disinterested.

Scienza took his goal well but I worry he's slowly morphing into Ryan Fraser (both in appearance and dribbling style) 

Being at the stale environment of SFC can take any original spark from a player - just look at Tom Fellows as well. Hopefully Finn rebels and keeps on being him. 

[BotleySaint]

Quite likely we'll get thumped by Millwall if we persist with Jack Stephens. Does nobody at the club analyse the goals we concede and spot a trend?