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Thread: Coronavirus Discussion Thread

  1. #1251

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooh it's a corner View Post
    There are a few posters on these threads on this forum who are saying, enough is enough, I can't be done contributing to this morally bankrupt business anymore. I wonder if the average Liverpool fan thinks the same?
    Have to say I’m basically done too. Like Turkish says above, this is not the game we fell in love with as 5,6,7 year old boys. And it was real, honest love for the pure joy of a game. It’s been almost 40 years and I’m genuinely upset at what these people are doing to it. As it stands, I’m one bad move from my own football club away from fully calling it a day with the whole thing.

    Football tv subscriptions are/will be gone irrespective now. and attending matches at st Mary’s will depend entirely on how we act as a club. Either we’re all in this together or the rich are after themselves.

    I’m not an idiot, I know that’s basically how capitalism works, but if they can’t relent at this time of genuine global crisis affecting people they work with and rely on, they can finally f@ck off even if it means me missing out on the one passion I’ve loved all my life.

    IMHO the best thing any right thinking professional footballer can do right now is to suspend their membership of the PFA to distance themselves from that horrific statement until it’s retracted, it’s leaders resign and they respond like they live in the real world.

  2. #1252

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    Very morally bankrupt actions from those clubs. Wonder if at some point there will be a domino effect where all clubs do it because other clubs are and they risk suffering for it if they don’t.

  3. #1253

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    Quote Originally Posted by brmbrm View Post
    I'm not so sure - you would need to read the small print. Force majeure and that sort of thing
    Legally, perhaps, but from the future business point of view it would be disastrous.

    Personally I would prefer a refund but in extremis I might accept an equivalent credit towards the next season.

  4. #1254

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    Jamie Carragher as reported in The Sunday Times.

    “Former defender Jamie Carragher said the club had lost “respect” by implementing the move which affects non-playing staff, believed to be around 200 people, although the club has said they will ensure that employees are paid 100 per cent of their salaries“

    In February, Liverpool announced profits of £42 million (£33 million after tax) for the year ending May 2019, while turnover increased by £78 million to £533 million.

    The club also spent £43.8 million on agents’ fees between February 2018 and the end of January 2019.

    Carragher was among the first to criticise the decision, which feels both premature and at odds with what Liverpool purportedly stand for.

    “Jürgen Klopp showed compassion for all at the start of this pandemic, senior players heavily involved in @premierleague players taking wage cuts,” he tweeted.

    “Then all that respect & goodwill is lost, poor this @LFC.”

  5. #1255

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    It's my understanding, thank goodness, that Saints won't be furloughing staff or taking government grants. I think that, compared with other clubs, their behaviour is commendable.

    But my blood is also boiling over the PFA stance. The £200m lost is taxes is totally spurious as that's a figure for a whole year assuming players don't subscribe to tax reduction schemes. As it probably wouldn't extend beyond say 4 months the real figure is probably less than £50m.

    And that shortfall could be easily be covered with an agreement that half of the wage reduction had to be gifted to the NHS with the other half retained by clubs to pay non-playing staff, avoid government grants and support the community. Club still wins.

    But no, the overriding principles are greed and self-interest. Desperately important to keep the millions flowing into players' (and agents') pockets. Anything to stop the bubble bursting. Power is everything and way too much power lies with the PFA and players.

    It's hard to see how it can happen, but I am disgusted and really want to see a massive wave of public (including supporter) anger against the PFA.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
    Your understanding is wrong unfortunately. A friend I know (plus others) who works for saints were furloughed for an initial 3 weeks on Friday. To say I’m a more than a little disappointed at the clubs actions is an understatement.

  6. #1256

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    The furlough scheme is obviously not designed for profitable companies like LFC and Spurs. Spurs for instance could take a mortgage holiday on their stadium debt.

    I think the FA/PL/EFL should advise ant clubs taking this furlough money, that they cannot sign new players until it is payed back or paid to a charity. The idea of the state paying 80% of Liverpool's non playing wages and them splashing 50 million on Timo Werner at the same time is clearly immoral .

  7. #1257

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    Quote Originally Posted by redkeith View Post
    The furlough scheme is obviously not designed for profitable companies like LFC and Spurs. Spurs for instance could take a mortgage holiday on their stadium debt.

    I think the FA/PL/EFL should advise ant clubs taking this furlough money, that they cannot sign new players until it is payed back or paid to a charity. The idea of the state paying 80% of Liverpool's non playing wages and them splashing 50 million on Timo Werner at the same time is clearly immoral .
    I agree entirely.

    I would also add, they wouldn't have to spent 50 million on Timo Werner, they could simply continue to pay many tens of staff, north of 100k per week.

    And for Liverpool, you can also add Newcastle, Spurs, Norwich, Bournemouth and now Southampton by the looks of it.

    The Government cannot allow tax-payer money to go to a business who is continuing to pay its highest earners at rack-rate.

  8. #1258

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    Quote Originally Posted by wild-saint View Post
    Your understanding is wrong unfortunately. A friend I know (plus others) who works for saints were furloughed for an initial 3 weeks on Friday. To say I’m a more than a little disappointed at the clubs actions is an understatement.
    That directly contradicts information I had from the club earlier this week, unless something has changed. I will have the opportunity to get a definitive answer next week.

    "Southampton’s players, management team and wider staff continue to be paid in full as the club await the outcome of the Premier League’s video conference between stakeholders on Friday before taking any possible action. The club’s pool of hundreds of casual matchday staff are yet to be affected by the shutdown owing to an absence of home matches in recent weeks, and most full-time employees are working remotely."

    That was Thursday. It's possible the situation changed after the PL meeting.

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    Last edited by Shroppie; 05-04-2020 at 10:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Nauseating indeed - a classic case of privatising profits and socialising losses.....Shankley's legacy trashed by a greedy, self serving Club. Likewise, Spurs with the nauseating Levy pulling the strings; his pay packet won't suffer, nor the star players but the average employee gets jettisoned to the public purse for a lifeline.

  10. #1260

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    Quote Originally Posted by wild-saint View Post
    Your understanding is wrong unfortunately. A friend I know (plus others) who works for saints were furloughed for an initial 3 weeks on Friday. To say I’m a more than a little disappointed at the clubs actions is an understatement.
    Very poor if true.

  11. #1261

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    Quote Originally Posted by redkeith View Post
    The furlough scheme is obviously not designed for profitable companies like LFC and Spurs. Spurs for instance could take a mortgage holiday on their stadium debt.

    I think the FA/PL/EFL should advise ant clubs taking this furlough money, that they cannot sign new players until it is payed back or paid to a charity. The idea of the state paying 80% of Liverpool's non playing wages and them splashing 50 million on Timo Werner at the same time is clearly immoral .
    Do you know what? Spot on. Any PL club should not use funds for transfers, agents or loans until all furlough money is returned. Simple and reasonable. Then they’ll make a real decision on if it’s necessary or whether they can miraculously find other options.

  12. #1262

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Very poor if true.
    No reason why it wouldn’t be true, my good friends wife works for the club. Club are topping up from 80 to 100% though.

  13. #1263

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Jamie Carragher as reported in The Sunday Times.

    “Former defender Jamie Carragher said the club had lost “respect” by implementing the move which affects non-playing staff, believed to be around 200 people, although the club has said they will ensure that employees are paid 100 per cent of their salaries“

    In February, Liverpool announced profits of £42 million (£33 million after tax) for the year ending May 2019, while turnover increased by £78 million to £533 million.

    The club also spent £43.8 million on agents’ fees between February 2018 and the end of January 2019.

    Carragher was among the first to criticise the decision, which feels both premature and at odds with what Liverpool purportedly stand for.

    “Jürgen Klopp showed compassion for all at the start of this pandemic, senior players heavily involved in @premierleague players taking wage cuts,” he tweeted.

    “Then all that respect & goodwill is lost, poor this @LFC.”
    Its a effin bad day when I agree with Jamie Carragher

  14. #1264

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    Quote Originally Posted by wild-saint View Post
    No reason why it wouldn’t be true, my good friends wife works for the club. Club are topping up from 80 to 100% though.
    Topping up the 20% - fcking herioc

  15. #1265

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    Quote Originally Posted by wild-saint View Post
    Your understanding is wrong unfortunately. A friend I know (plus others) who works for saints were furloughed for an initial 3 weeks on Friday. To say I’m a more than a little disappointed at the clubs actions is an understatement.
    Very very disappointing if true.

  16. #1266

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    I’m hoping this is somehow wrong, I guess it’s possible it’s someone who works for an outsourced support part of the operation? (not sure that’d make it much better). But if my club are furloughing employees via the tax payer rather than support through premier league riches I am indeed done.

  17. #1267

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    Very very disappointing if true.
    #SaintsAsOne

  18. #1268

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    Very very disappointing if true.
    #WeDon'tBuySuccess.......

  19. #1269

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    Quote Originally Posted by wild-saint View Post
    Your understanding is wrong unfortunately. A friend I know (plus others) who works for saints were furloughed for an initial 3 weeks on Friday. To say I’m a more than a little disappointed at the clubs actions is an understatement.
    That's it over for me than if true. TBH I haven't missed it, & saved ****loads of cash not going, if you told me a month ago i'd never attend a Saints game again I would have thought you were mad. N

  20. #1270

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    Unlike Newcastle and Tottenham Liverpool; are foreign owned. Although I disagree with what they have done we need to take that into consideration.

  21. #1271

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFC Forever View Post
    Unlike Newcastle and Tottenham Liverpool; are foreign owned. Although I disagree with what they have done we need to take that into consideration.
    Why does that make any difference?

  22. #1272

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    Morally none but difference is that other two live here and pay their taxes here. John Henry is american and has no allegiance to this country. For me that makes it worse as he is taking money from his tax paying Liverpool fans plus all taxpayers here.

  23. #1273

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    This will be a decision made by the owner Saints. Do you seriously expect him to not take advantage of this scheme???
    You are all naive if you expecting him to do otherwise.
    Its a foregone conclusion.

  24. #1274

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    This will be a decision made by the owner of Saints. Do you seriously expect him to not take advantage of this scheme???
    You are all naive if you expected him to do otherwise.
    Its a foregone conclusion.

  25. #1275

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    That is as maybe, but we don't have to agree with it.

  26. #1276

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFC Forever View Post
    Morally none but difference is that other two live here and pay their taxes here. John Henry is american and has no allegiance to this country. For me that makes it worse as he is taking money from his tax paying Liverpool fans plus all taxpayers here.
    You’re confusing the owner and club. Liverpool is based in the UK and subject to the same tax rules and regulations as Newcastle and Tottenham and every other PL club.

  27. #1277

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFC Forever View Post
    Morally none but difference is that other two live here and pay their taxes here. John Henry is american and has no allegiance to this country. For me that makes it worse as he is taking money from his tax paying Liverpool fans plus all taxpayers here.
    Joe Lewis lives in the Bahamas and owns over twice as many shares in ENIC as Levy and his family. He is more than filthy rich.

  28. #1278

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    Very very disappointing if true.
    Agree, But it’s also very very predictable.

  29. #1279

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    You’re confusing the owner and club. Liverpool is based in the UK and subject to the same tax rules and regulations as Newcastle and Tottenham and every other PL club.
    Like any other affected business these clubs have been forced to stop operating by government decree. Whether it be Liverpool of Mrs Miggins Pies they qualify for government support. What sticks in the throat is that these clubs are filthy rich and throw money around like confetti.

  30. #1280

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Like any other affected business these clubs have been forced to stop operating by government decree. Whether it be Liverpool of Mrs Miggins Pies they qualify for government support. What sticks in the throat is that these clubs are filthy rich and throw money around like confetti.
    They still receive 90% of their revenue (TV deal, which they won’t end season early because they don’t want to give money back). Match day revenue, is a drop in the ocean to a PL club and isn’t relied upon to make a profit or pay the staff .

    It’s greedy owners / chairmen taking advantage of a horrible situation.

  31. #1281

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    Predictable given the premier league didn't take any leadership role by issuing penalties to the early clubs bad behaviour. The herd then felt they were at risk of being disadvantaged.

  32. #1282

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevy777_x View Post
    This will be a decision made by the owner Saints. Do you seriously expect him to not take advantage of this scheme???
    You are all naive if you expecting him to do otherwise.
    Its a foregone conclusion.
    Sadly I do expect them too that doesn’t make it right though

  33. #1283

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    Man City confirm they won’t furlough any staff

  34. #1284

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baird of the land View Post
    Predictable given the premier league didn't take any leadership role by issuing penalties to the early clubs bad behaviour. The herd then felt they were at risk of being disadvantaged.
    Which rule did they break?

  35. #1285

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    If ever the fans of football needed an eye opener to show them that football is really all about the money and does not care for its staff or its local community... This is it... Pure greed...

  36. #1286

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    That directly contradicts information I had from the club earlier this week, unless something has changed. I will have the opportunity to get a definitive answer next week.

    "Southampton’s players, management team and wider staff continue to be paid in full as the club await the outcome of the Premier League’s video conference between stakeholders on Friday before taking any possible action. The club’s pool of hundreds of casual matchday staff are yet to be affected by the shutdown owing to an absence of home matches in recent weeks, and most full-time employees are working remotely."

    That was Thursday. It's possible the situation changed after the PL meeting.

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    Edit.

  37. #1287

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFC Forever View Post
    Morally none but difference is that other two live here and pay their taxes here. John Henry is american and has no allegiance to this country. For me that makes it worse as he is taking money from his tax paying Liverpool fans plus all taxpayers here.
    Tottenham are owned by Enic International Ltd which is mostly owned by a Bahamas based company owned by Bahamas-based Joe Lwis. Not that it matters.

  38. #1288

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKD View Post
    They still receive 90% of their revenue (TV deal, which they won’t end season early because they don’t want to give money back). Match day revenue, is a drop in the ocean to a PL club and isn’t relied upon to make a profit or pay the staff .

    It’s greedy owners / chairmen taking advantage of a horrible situation.
    Plus a lot of players have goal bonuses, clean sheet bonuses, appearance fees that would have all been budgeted for, but not being paid now saving them more dosh.

  39. #1289

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    Which rule did they break?
    As a body can't it bring in whatever rules it sees fit and penalties for failing to comply?

  40. #1290

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baird of the land View Post
    As a body can't it bring in whatever rules it sees fit and penalties for failing to comply?
    Clubs aren't going to accept a rule being creating and then being applied to events before its creation. That wouldn't hold up in court.

  41. #1291

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    I see Rooney's now gone on the offensive on behalf of the poor bullied PL footballers. So unfair to ask them to take a pay cut.


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  42. #1292

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    More players should follow the example of Kyle Walker, putting money back into the community and supporting the self-employed.

  43. #1293

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    Clubs aren't going to accept a rule being creating and then being applied to events before its creation. That wouldn't hold up in court.
    It could be applied from next month forcing those clubs to defurlough their staff.

  44. #1294

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    I see Rooney's now gone on the offensive on behalf of the poor bullied PL footballers. So unfair to ask them to take a pay cut.


    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
    Did you read how his 'pal' can't be expected to live on £1400 per week (after a 30% wage reduction)...

    my god.

    Interesting chat on TalkSport. Simon Jordan saying the likes of Liverpool etc doing what they are doing is to force the players to take a pay cut - leverage (in the top flight anyway) as the PFA were dead against. Now, they (the PFA) are having to buckle and embarrassing itself in the process.

  45. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry the Badger View Post
    More players should follow the example of Kyle Walker, putting money back into the community and supporting the self-employed.
    By hosting a party?

  46. #1296

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenridge View Post
    By hosting a party?
    not just any party!

  47. #1297

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    not just any party!
    Ain't no party like an S Club party.

  48. #1298

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    I hope the club refund us the money for the games we've missed on our season tickets. I wasn't that bothered about it until now but I've changed my mind.

    Would have been a very positive bit of press for the club to pay the staff themselves like Man City are.

  49. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    not just any party!
    No, he was doing his bit to support a couple of self-employed ladies too!

  50. #1300

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cat View Post
    I hope the club refund us the money for the games we've missed on our season tickets. I wasn't that bothered about it until now but I've changed my mind.

    Would have been a very positive bit of press for the club to pay the staff themselves like Man City are.
    If they wouldn’t mind refunding me for the ones I have been to for the last four years, that’d be nice too.

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