BigShadow Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 "For just £150 (per person, excluding VAT), you will also be able to take advantage of complimentary tea and coffee at half-time" Tempting... I thought you were taking the p!ss but it actually does say that. Top marketing guru's down at FP then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 I thought you were taking the p!ss but it actually does say that. Top marketing guru's down at FP then. Really pushing the boat out to get the fans in aren't they! It's an extra £50 if you want sugar though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 "For just £150 (per person, excluding VAT), you will also be able to take advantage of complimentary tea and coffee at half-time" Tempting... and also "And that’s not all. Your package means you will also receive hospitality in our Pitch Side Restaurant for an additional match of your choice (excluding category ‘A’ games) at no extra cost." So cash up front, product later...... fine if you trust the seller........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibble Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 Been away for a few days what is the latest on the football creditors court case? Would appreciate an update if anybody knows. Decision not expected till late February early March. http://www.insolvencynews.com/article/show/Football-creditors-outcome-set-for-Spring-2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 Im probably like many tired of reading that their time has come, only for them to keep getting away with it. How many events have happened where it looks like they are finished only for people to work out they have sidestepped the hangman. The closest they got and will ever was the day in court when the lady lost her nerve to liquidate them, this was after PS seemed to inflate their asset value to ease her concerns. Then AA came on the scene and has played this as a chess game, always being 4 or 5 steps ahead of the authorities and others with their own views. Sadly Clapham has kept out of posting recently,his was true insight into the IP's position. I would have thought that DL's wording about the asset being in the administrators hands could be a major gaff. i hope the more legally minded will be able to work that out and send it on to the right people. As for his last words on the webchat 'we're waiting' was an interesting lick up to the fans and no doubt the 'we-re coming for you' song is being used to psyche up their squad. I know where you are coming from but I disagree. They have suffered. They are suffering and they have yet more pain to come..... When we went under we had 12 months of so of concern. The loaning out of the high earners under Lowe and the playing of kids led to some awful games of football. I think that it was 4 months into the season until I saw a Saints goal from open play at St Marys having been on holiday on the one occasion when we played well. The administration was an awful time to live through and the worry of whether we would have a football club for those couple of weeks after the Pinnacle disaster was terrible. However we came through it and are on the way upwards. The Skates on the other hand have had this trauma for much longer. They were flying so high after winning the cup that the fiascos of the last 2 and a half years must have really hurt. Being rooted at the bottom of the Premiership 2 seasons ago. The High court dramas last season. The succession of different owners. The sheer awfulness of the football served up at their rust heap of a stadium. The knowledge that they have become the butt of comedians 's jokes on radio and TV and the knowledge that they have become the plaything of different parts of the Russian mafia must all really hurt. And what do they have to look forward to? Is there a knight in shing armour coming to rescue them - not bloomin' likely. The rust heap will keep on rusting. The good players that they have left will dwindle away. They have picked up a bit recently but relegation to the third tier is certainly very possible this season. A quick death and then a phoenix from the ashes would be bearable. But a slow death must be so painful when less than 4 years after winning the Cup, the only thing that you have to look forward to is a relegation battle into the third tier whilst your local rivals are at the top of the league. No wonder the Southsea Common 200,000 has dwindled to TCWTB, Corp Ho Ho Ho and 11,000 other deluded ill breds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_John Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 Decision not expected till late February early March. http://www.insolvencynews.com/article/show/Football-creditors-outcome-set-for-Spring-2012 Your article was dated the 8th Dec, however this one dated today says it COULD be before Xmas. http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2132954/football-insolvency-judgement-christmas The court battle between HMRC and the Football League began at the end of November and it was thought a judgement would be given early next year. However, presiding judge Mr Justice David Richards indicated he would like to deliver a judgement before the Christmas break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3999222/Portsmouth-fear-10-point-deduction-over-administration.html PORTSMOUTH fear they will be docked 10 points as the Championship side do not have the cash to pay ex-owner Sacha Gaydamak. Under the terms of a Company Voluntary Agreement which took the club out of administration last year, Pompey must cough up £1.2million by April — that is the first instalment of £16.5m owed to creditors. And with their Russian-owned parent company in trouble, the South Coast outfit are seeking a new buyer. Chief executive David Lampitt said: "Anyone coming in to invest has to understand our obligations." Wow massive piece of quality Journalism there But true And that final quote? The nail in their coffin of pain. (Well the last 6 or is it 7 owners ain't given a damn about anything other than getting their picture on facebook/in the paper/pretending to exist etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 How was the Dutch seawall golfers today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 Your article was dated the 8th Dec, however this one dated today says it COULD be before Xmas. http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2132954/football-insolvency-judgement-christmas The court battle between HMRC and the Football League began at the end of November and it was thought a judgement would be given early next year. However, presiding judge Mr Justice David Richards indicated he would like to deliver a judgement before the Christmas break. That name in bold red rings alarm bells . . . . it's not the self same Dave Richards who introduced one of the previous owners was it? . . . If so then it's Oh noes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaempty Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 Just read this on Twitter: jamie jackson @GuardianJamieJ Close been a while but here's #pfc story: Portsmouth players might not be paid in new year, I've been told. full story on @guardian_sport soon Nothing we didn't already know, but hopefully worth reading about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 Re: CSI's other ''worthy'' asset: "North One Sport is still working on finding a new investor to take over from CSI. The FIA is believed to have imposed a timetable for this to happen - but the most important date looming is the opening round of the 2012 season: the Monte Carlo Rally, which is just over four weeks away." http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96765 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfred Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 Just read this on Twitter: jamie jackson @GuardianJamieJ Close been a while but here's #pfc story: Portsmouth players might not be paid in new year, I've been told. full story on @guardian_sport soon Nothing we didn't already know, but hopefully worth reading about. Here's the link http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/15/portsmouth-players-pay-andrew-andronikou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 Harry Redknapp, speaking to ITV4 - "I thought when Rubin Kazan went down to 10 men that we might have a good chance and four goals would be enough. But it was a good experience for some of the younger players in our squad and they will probably go out on loan in January now. I am a big believer in the loan system and they will go and do well for somebody else now." Looks like 'Arry might be helping his old pals out with some quality youngsters ....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysstuff Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 Here's the link http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/15/portsmouth-players-pay-andrew-andronikou Sport Football Portsmouth Portsmouth players may go without pay says Andrew Andronikou • Administrator bemoans 'uncertain economic environment' • Gordon Taylor hopes player's will not go without pay reddit this Jamie Jackson guardian.co.uk, Thursday 15 December 2011 20.06 GMT Article history N****wo Kanu The Portsmouth squad including the striker N****wo Kanu, centre, face the prospect of not being paid in January. Photograph: Frances Leader/Action Images Portsmouth players could face an unhappy new year after one of the administrators looking after the club's parent company admitted that there is no guarantee that their wages will be paid next month. Portsmouth's fate is again in the balance after the arrest of Vladimir Antonov, the owner, who faces an extradition hearing on Friday in central London. Regarding the players' salaries Andrew Andronikou, who is the joint administrator of Convers Sports Initiatives (CSI), the company which owns Portsmouth, and who handled the club's administration last year, said: "There is no problem currently – the players will be paid this month but beyond that into January and the new year, who knows? This is a very uncertain economic environment at the moment." From November 2009 until February 2010, when the club were owned by first Sulaimain al-Fahim and then Ali al-Faraj, Portsmouth's players were not paid on the correct due date, and the Professional Footballers' Association is again monitoring the situation. Gordon Taylor, the PFA's chief executive, said: "We are aware of the financial problems of the club and the consequent problems we've had with players there with monies being paid. They've already been through it once, so I'm hoping that's not repeated. It's just at the moment us keeping a watching brief – it's no good saying it is a good situation. This is one more amber light at the moment, we are hoping that things turned out [OK]." Antonov is due at the City of Westminster magistrates court as Lithuania is demanding he be extradited following his arrest for alleged large-scale bank fraud and forgery, which he denies. CSI, which is 80% owned by Antonov, is in administration and Andronikou has been appointed the joint-administrator, with Peter Kubik, and is looking for buyers for its nine sporting entities, including Portsmouth. Andronikou is insistent that whether or not Antonov is extradited, there will be no material affect on Portsmouth and he stated that there has already been far more interest in buying the club than when he handled the £120m administration last year. "There are several interested parties and we are trying to establish [the best of these]," he said. "It is easier than last year as the club is far cleaner and there are no skeletons and I know the club inside out. What we need to do at the moment is establish some working capital." No skeletons - PMSL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 Harry Redknapp, speaking to ITV4 - "I thought when Rubin Kazan went down to 10 men that we might have a good chance and four goals would be enough. But it was a good experience for some of the younger players in our squad and they will probably go out on loan in January now. I am a big believer in the loan system and they will go and do well for somebody else now." Looks like 'Arry might be helping his old pals out with some quality youngsters ....? Inextricably..... Sport Football Portsmouth Portsmouth players may go without pay says Andrew Andronikou • Administrator bemoans 'uncertain economic environment' • Gordon Taylor hopes player's will not go without pay reddit this Jamie Jackson guardian.co.uk, Thursday 15 December 2011 20.06 GMT Article history N****wo Kanu The Portsmouth squad including the striker N****wo Kanu, centre, face the prospect of not being paid in January. Photograph: Frances Leader/Action Images Portsmouth players could face an unhappy new year after one of the administrators looking after the club's parent company admitted that there is no guarantee that their wages will be paid next month. Portsmouth's fate is again in the balance after the arrest of Vladimir Antonov, the owner, who faces an extradition hearing on Friday in central London. Regarding the players' salaries Andrew Andronikou, who is the joint administrator of Convers Sports Initiatives (CSI), the company which owns Portsmouth, and who handled the club's administration last year, said: "There is no problem currently – the players will be paid this month but beyond that into January and the new year, who knows? This is a very uncertain economic environment at the moment." From November 2009 until February 2010, when the club were owned by first Sulaimain al-Fahim and then Ali al-Faraj, Portsmouth's players were not paid on the correct due date, and the Professional Footballers' Association is again monitoring the situation. Gordon Taylor, the PFA's chief executive, said: "We are aware of the financial problems of the club and the consequent problems we've had with players there with monies being paid. They've already been through it once, so I'm hoping that's not repeated. It's just at the moment us keeping a watching brief – it's no good saying it is a good situation. This is one more amber light at the moment, we are hoping that things turned out [OK]." Antonov is due at the City of Westminster magistrates court as Lithuania is demanding he be extradited following his arrest for alleged large-scale bank fraud and forgery, which he denies. CSI, which is 80% owned by Antonov, is in administration and Andronikou has been appointed the joint-administrator, with Peter Kubik, and is looking for buyers for its nine sporting entities, including Portsmouth. Andronikou is insistent that whether or not Antonov is extradited, there will be no material affect on Portsmouth and he stated that there has already been far more interest in buying the club than when he handled the £120m administration last year. "There are several interested parties and we are trying to establish [the best of these]," he said. "It is easier than last year as the club is far cleaner and there are no skeletons and I know the club inside out. What we need to do at the moment is establish some working capital." No skeletons - PMSL ....Linked. What Ho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 The money's running out, and they can't even sell out against us... It all comes down to whether there's anyone out there left that's willing to give up a multi-million pound fortune to keep them alive. That's their only chance now, as the world heads into another recession. Otherwise, could be that this thread finally gets closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 spoke to a skate tonight, he doesn't see how they can be running at a loss. I told him to go away with a calculator and see for himself. I would take Lampitt's reference to a possible ten point deduction as pompey's opening salvo in a negotiation with the league - set a level and hope they accept it... Because if they re-enter administration without having exited the last one correctly then they'll be facing some serious sanctions that will make minus ten points look like a picnic. The noose does seem to be tightening this time, I think the term 'perilous' would cover their situation now. Players being told they might not get paid, potential investors being made aware of 'obligations', AA saying everything is clean - it's worrying times down that way. The last thing they need is a home defeat at the weekend. Or their owner in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picard Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 In case anyone was wondering how the forensic investigation is going... We will be assisting Geoff Carton-Kelly and David Hudson with their investigations into the financial collapse of the club. The liquidators have identified significant issues that require detailed investigation Read more: http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2072292/baker-tilly-lawyers-portsmouth-fc-liquidation#ixzz1ge8I0ZCz Accountancy Age - Finance, business and accountancy news, features and resources. Claim your free subscription today. This is a bit old - from May- but i don't think it was mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 December, 2011 Share Posted 15 December, 2011 "For just £150 (per person, excluding VAT), you will also be able to take advantage of complimentary tea and coffee at half-time" Tempting... Pedant alert! I don't see how tea and coffee can be complimentary. Perhaps tea says to coffee, "I see you're made from the finest Arabica beans". Coffee responds "You're quite a fine Darjeeling if I'm not mistaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Jesus Christ, what a bunch of 'tards. Blah blah blah .... Hmm, Corpse is getting a tad tetchy. I can't think why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 My God THEY ARE SAVED! Clearly. AA is a GENIUS This is a very uncertain economic environment at the moment Really? Jeez, thanks for letting us know Now then, let's see. Bail out an insolvent country, buy their assets on the cheap. Or pour money into bailing out an insolvent football club? poopey - The Greece of the Football League. Neither one took the actions they should have, and both lived in give us money la la land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 My God THEY ARE SAVED! Clearly. AA is a GENIUS Really? Jeez, thanks for letting us know Now then, let's see. Bail out an insolvent country, buy their assets on the cheap. Or pour money into bailing out an insolvent football club? poopey - The Greece of the Football League. Neither one took the actions they should have, and both lived in give us money la la land. Secret photos have arrived of the new Poopey Board meeting on their Executive Seats at Nottarf Krap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 "For just £150 (per person, excluding VAT), you will also be able to take advantage of complimentary tea and coffee at half-time" Tempting... Pedant alert! I don't see how tea and coffee can be complimentary. Perhaps tea says to coffee, "I see you're made from the finest Arabica beans". Coffee responds "You're quite a fine Darjeeling if I'm not mistaken" Indeed but you're missed what is the root cause down that way: "...to take advantage of..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 (edited) I fear this report does appear to contradict Ho's claim that 5 million of the 10.8 went to Chainrai as part of the payment for buying the club. Ho wrong, who would have thought it!! http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-16/cash-crisis-returns-to-haunt-english-soccer-club-as-banker-owner-in-court.html Chainrai agreed to CSI’s request to defer the payment for the club for two years and imposed an interest rate of about 8 percent on the new owners, said Andronikou. The sale was completed after Chainrai received a bank guarantee from Bankas Snoras AB, Antonov’s collapsed Lithuanian bank. I wonder when the 8% payment is due though (Though I guess that's to be paid by CSI who purchased pompey not the club itself)? Does the fact that Chainrai sold to CSI, even if he has got no money for it, mean most of the money due to him is now the responsibility of CSI not pompey? Edited 16 December, 2011 by pedg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 I fear this report does appear to contradict Ho's claim that 5 million of the 10.8 went to Chainrai as part of the payment for buying the club. Ho wrong, who would have thought it!! http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-16/cash-crisis-returns-to-haunt-english-soccer-club-as-banker-owner-in-court.html I wonder when the 8% payment is due though (Though I guess that's to be paid by CSI who purchased pompey not the club itself)? Does the fact that Chainrai sold to CSI, even if he has got no money for it, mean most of the money due to him is now the responsibility of CSI not pompey? It is always smoke and mirrors, isn't it? The ownership of the club is less than clear, even now, never mind the chain of inter-related loans and debts, and most of the links still wind their way back to Chainrai, who, as we know, was not unacquainted with the Gaydamaks. Sometimes it feels like the whole thing has been a huge money-churning scam right back to day one, hiding in clear sight as they all clean their cash and defraud the UK tax authorities, because it gets harder and harder to believe any innocent club could be that unlucky as to get such a long succession of potless billionaires passing ownership from one to the next. Ignoring my own bias, you do feel that the only way to stop it would be to have the poor thing destroyed so no-one can abuse it any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysstuff Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Does the fact that Chainrai sold to CSI, even if he has got no money for it, mean most of the money due to him is now the responsibility of CSI not pompey? Doesn't it actually mean that it's the responsibility of the Administrator and he'll get a pittance in the £? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Doesn't it actually mean that it's the responsibility of the Administrator and he'll get a pittance in the £? Suspect his charge against CSI as the bank was collapsing means he will be a secured creditor and will get it all. Notice in that article that the WRC rights cost antonov 30 Million so if AA can sell that company for even half that then chainrai will get all his money back. I guess a chain of events (excluding possibly illegal coordination) went something like: Chainrai agrees to sell to CSI and take a % interest rate ahead of immediate payment backed by Snoras bank guarantee Becomes obvious Snoras in trouble so Chainrai gets a charge against CSI for the money owed him for pompey CSI being just a holding company through which Antonov's money passes does not have that much money itself so goes into admin. Question is what other sorts of debts did CSI have to contribute towards the admin? As a holding company mainly used to channel Antonovs money would there actually be many other creditors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Pedant alert! I don't see how tea and coffee can be complimentary. Perhaps tea says to coffee, "I see you're made from the finest Arabica beans". Coffee responds "You're quite a fine Darjeeling if I'm not mistaken" Pedant put down! Actually that is the correct spelling when referring to as gift or something that is included 'free' in such a package. It derives from the sense of being given as a compliment. 'Complementary', the word you have presumably confused with 'complimentary', refers to going together to make a whole. Where the two are frequently misused is when football reporters talk of 2 players 'complimenting' each other, when they mean 'complementing'. Now, as for the Guardian using 'affect' in that Pompey article linked above, when they mean 'effect', that really is appalling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Just a thought, but seeing as no money in fact appeared to change hands... was CSI EVER the owner of Portsmouth? I can't see Mr Chinnery handing over the full train set to CSI without the full amount changing hands...so is AA cock sure of avoiding a points deduction because in his eyes CSI never really owned it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Just a thought, but seeing as no money in fact appeared to change hands... was CSI EVER the owner of Portsmouth? I can't see Mr Chinnery handing over the full train set to CSI without the full amount changing hands...so is AA cock sure of avoiding a points deduction because in his eyes CSI never really owned it? It appears he handed over the train set based on a guarantee from Snoras bank. When that went belly up he put in a charge on CSI for what he was owed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 It appears he handed over the train set based on a guarantee from Snoras bank. When that went belly up he put in a charge on CSI for what he was owed. That's what I'm on about - if the contract was watertight it may include an ownership reversion to Chinny in the event of default. From a legal standpoint perhaps that's the angle AA is using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Actually Chanrai has been pretty smart here. Through the sale of PFC and subsequent taking of a charge on CSI, he has "moved" his debt further up the chain where more assets exist. Now he has the benefit of WRC as well as any sale price they rustle up from PFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Actually Chanrai has been pretty smart here. Through the sale of PFC and subsequent taking of a charge on CSI, he has "moved" his debt further up the chain where more assets exist. Now he has the benefit of WRC as well as any sale price they rustle up from PFC. My thoughts entirely. Would he prefer to regain ownership of pompey and their bestestest fans or have his money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Just a thought, but seeing as no money in fact appeared to change hands... was CSI EVER the owner of Portsmouth? I can't see Mr Chinnery handing over the full train set to CSI without the full amount changing hands...so is AA cock sure of avoiding a points deduction because in his eyes CSI never really owned it? CSI are the owners of PFC (2010) Ltd as their shareholding is indicated on the Companies Register. Whilst Chainrai may have lent them the money to puchase the club, he took a debenture over the club's assets. As you say, he will not hand over these assets without getting his money back . He can, of course, sell the assets as a secured creditor if cash from the administrator is not forthcoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Yeah, but only while they were in Lge 2 and away from the spotlight. Or, did they receive a points penalty in Lge 1 aswell? Sort of both. I believe Luton were deducted 10 points in L1 in the season they were relegated to L2, then another 20 over the summer, and started their L2 season on -30 because the first 10 came after relegation was certain, much like our 10 point deduction was applied the following season. Bear in mind that Luton had been on the top division (can't remember if it was already called the premier league then) only about 2 or 3 years before that. They were not much smaller or lower profile as a club than Portsmouth are now. IF the FL decide that any points deduction is deserved, I don't see how they could only take off 10. The comparison with Luton is pretty strong if they treat the club itself as effectively being in administration. In any event if the club runs out of money in the New Year as predicted, surely it will itself have to go into liquidation/administration anyway, and the fine distinction between it and CSI will be immaterial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carljack Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Suspect his charge against CSI as the bank was collapsing means he will be a secured creditor and will get it all. Notice in that article that the WRC rights cost antonov 30 Million so if AA can sell that company for even half that then chainrai will get all his money back. I guess a chain of events (excluding possibly illegal coordination) went something like: Chainrai agrees to sell to CSI and take a % interest rate ahead of immediate payment backed by Snoras bank guarantee Becomes obvious Snoras in trouble so Chainrai gets a charge against CSI for the money owed him for pompey CSI being just a holding company through which Antonov's money passes does not have that much money itself so goes into admin. Question is what other sorts of debts did CSI have to contribute towards the admin? As a holding company mainly used to channel Antonovs money would there actually be many other creditors? If the money Antonov used to buy the rights was stolen I think it will need a miracle for AA to divert the funds to Chanrai inside a year,it will be very messy, ALL Antonovs "investments" are currently frozen and will remain so for quite a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Actually Chanrai has been pretty smart here. Through the sale of PFC and subsequent taking of a charge on CSI, he has "moved" his debt further up the chain where more assets exist. Now he has the benefit of WRC as well as any sale price they rustle up from PFC. You could well be right, but I see it slightly differently. Chinney is now super exposed. He has a bank guarantee.......from a bank that can't honour it. His only way of recouping his money, is through the assets and all they amount to is the squad and the land. Chinney is in a corner and all he will be intrested in, is his money. I expect all players worth a sell on fee will be shipped out. If there are any budding or wannabe footballers out there, I would get down to Eastleigh and ask for a trial, I am not sure they are in a position to turn you away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Sort of both. I believe Luton were deducted 10 points in L1 in the season they were relegated to L2, then another 20 over the summer, and started their L2 season on -30 because the first 10 came after relegation was certain, much like our 10 point deduction was applied the following season. Bear in mind that Luton had been on the top division (can't remember if it was already called the premier league then) only about 2 or 3 years before that. They were not much smaller or lower profile as a club than Portsmouth are now. IF the FL decide that any points deduction is deserved, I don't see how they could only take off 10. The comparison with Luton is pretty strong if they treat the club itself as effectively being in administration. In any event if the club runs out of money in the New Year as predicted, surely it will itself have to go into liquidation/administration anyway, and the fine distinction between it and CSI will be immaterial. The Luton Town minus 30 point season isn't really that similar at all... - 10-point deduction for financial irregularities in regard to its dealings with agents - 20-point additional penalty related to the club's inability to agree a Company Voluntary Agreement (CVA) to exit administration, with the Football League pointing out that it was the third time in 10 years that Luton have been in such a position. ...yet http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/luton_town/7500435.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holepuncture Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-16/cash-crisis-returns-to-haunt-english-soccer-club-as-banker-owner-in-court.html That is a superb article from the global media outlet Bloomberg, clarifying Chinnys debt is £17.2m CVA 'about' £25m Antonov loan to the team £10.2m No mention of Gadymack which is a bit harsh on our resident gun runner. Antonov “was never passionate about football,” Akers said in an interview. “I know of the pre-season and the current season games, I think he’s been to two. I cant see him being bothered about pompey folding, not one bit! http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/15/portsmouth-players-pay-andrew-andronikou Ah the wages, for the highest paid XI in the football league. Its that time of the year again for pompey. I wonder if they are this close to failing to pay their employees , will they be defaulting on tax liabilities again? But today is not about paying the wages, today is about the people of Lithuania and Latvia... Will mr Antonov be sent to face up to his crimes today? We can only hope. Today could see the skates latest criminal funding stream blocked, today could be a significant step closer towards liquidation and AFC Poopey at Moneyfields. Please join me in wishing the judges and courts all the best for todays proceedings... I hope they dont get caught in any legal ping pong, all going well they can validate the European Arrest Warrant and sent vlad to face the people he has stolen from. or will he have seen through his threats of plastic surgery, and sailed off in the dark of night to Panama? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysstuff Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-16/cash-crisis-returns-to-haunt-english-soccer-club-as-banker-owner-in-court.html That is a superb article from the global media outlet Bloomberg, clarifying Chinnys debt is £17.2m CVA 'about' £25m Antonov loan to the team £10.2m No mention of Gadymack which is a bit harsh on our resident gun runner. I cant see him being bothered about pompey folding, not one bit! Just reading that article myself, bit that got me was ''Roman Dubov, a director of CSI, said the Football League spent “at least one to two months” to check Antonov’s credentials and found nothing wrong. '' 4 to 8 weeks looking at Antonov and no alarm bells rung??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Actually Chanrai has been pretty smart here. Through the sale of PFC and subsequent taking of a charge on CSI, he has "moved" his debt further up the chain where more assets exist. Now he has the benefit of WRC as well as any sale price they rustle up from PFC. I wonder if he secured his money, before or after someone stuck the bubble in about Antonov's great bank robbery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastleighhalo Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Just reading that article myself, bit that got me was ''Roman Dubov, a director of CSI, said the Football League spent “at least one to two months” to check Antonov’s credentials and found nothing wrong. '' 4 to 8 weeks looking at Antonov and no alarm bells rung??? Kin ell !! Our mob on here found plenty wrong with him within 4-8 minutes !! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 You love to quote the David Conn article, well have a look and he explains where the 'loan' was spent. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2011/nov/29/portsmouth-crisis-vladimir-antonov But just to help you out the key bit is - Akers confirmed that CSI, and Portsmouth, have been relying on millions of pounds from Antonov personally to fund the deal by which CSI bought the club. Creditors of the club's administration, who were owed up to £80m, including Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, which claims a £37m debt, must still be paid 20p in the pound over five years. Akers said Antonov had invested around £10.5m in transfer fees and players' salaries To be fair though... that is not definitive yet it does not really matter what the money was used for. If as Corpse suggests part of it was used to pay Chanrai an installment that is actually possible (although subsequent reports suggest this is not the case)... it would be a simple case of CSI leveraging the club against the purchase - eg the money used to buy the club is then added to the clubs books in the form of a loan... could have been the case here (no different to what the yanks did at Man U, just on a much smaller scale, or in fact what we have done with it being speculated that the 13 mil ML paid has been added to the books as a loan from ML) . However, the key issue here is that now CSI has been placed in admin... the administrator wants its back to pay off CSI creditors.... one of which is Chanrai who is still owed (preferentially at last minute) for the original purchase. So the shares in Pompey new co that CSI held have now in effect passed to chanrai (held by AA) until a buyer is found and Chanrai paid his due... not sure how they sort that 10 mil out... but hey sure they will find a way... So that leaves pompey owing 10 mil or so to CSI whichever way you look at it and whatever it was used for... which begs the question, why did pompey not use whatever cash they had to clear some of their debt burden? Why did they spend 4mil + on players and wages that they don’t have at a time when they have such a convoluted ownership structure in place re club, ground, land etc that it makes selling the club more difficult? Why did they spend 4mil + on players and salaries when they once again knew that without it they would be making a loss... at a time when no one is going to lend them anything given their history? Why did the FA/FL let them do this? (obsessed with the 'integrity of the competition' - eg it would be wrong of them to dictate draconian measures that would in effect guarantee relegation for a club before a ball is kicked - which I can understand in principle, but surely simply better for both the game, the league and Pompey, if they were forced to put their house in order in L1? - because they certainly had no intention of doing the RIGHT thing and taking it on the chin and playing the kids if the FL/FA did not force them to...unlike us who did it ourselves to try and avoid admin in the first place...) I suspect they are actually on a more sound footing than last time, no published accounts but suspect that with that squad, the crap gate and without CSI cash, they are probably now running at an estimated loss of around 3-4 mil a year... but without any facility with a bank or cash from an owner to underwrite it - they may actually not have used it yet, but are now in a situation where the cash will run out in a few weeks time and with the payments due in April... they could be back in Admin by then... unless the Prem give them another advance on their last 2 years parachute payments that were meant for the CVA.... So if you want to buy Pompey now what are you looking at? The club - probably 10mil or so to pay off chanrai? (how much is still owed to him?) 10 mil to CSI Pay off gaydamrk - how much is owed to him as a creditor? Pay off Gaydamrk/Chanrai for any land they own around the ground after the above payments are made... may be nothing, not sure what the current contracts include + knowledge of 16 mil in total CVA payments due + currently running at a loss with existing squad 3-4 mil a year would be my guess? + uncertainty over points situation + uncertainty over relegation + L1 infrastructure All for what is going to cost you a minimum of £20mil to pay everyone off and leave you with a loss making company that still owes 16 mil under terms of the current CVA But hey it could get worse... any interested party might just think... ‘let’s wait - they will be in Admin again by April, docked 20 + points but will finally be debt free and I can pick them up for £1 in the conf and start again - surely the best option? If I was a genuine pompey fan with 20Mil or so, it’s what I would wait for, so that the monies I bring in would be used to rebuild from square one, not pay off the dark and dodgy characters who have got them in this ****e - who knows, perhaps there are as AA says plenty of really stupid or more really smart laundry experts waiting in the wings as we speak.... Re. Pedg quote: Question is what other sorts of debts did CSI have to contribute towards the admin? As a holding company mainly used to channel Antonovs money would there actually be many other creditors? '' I thought I read somewhere that CSI had been placed in admin as it protects the CSI companies (to a certain degree) from being assets seized by the Lithuanians as the charge against said companies will be prioritised to the secured creditors of CSI, rather than bank customers.... smells fishy to me, but then most things doen teh road do, especially as Chanrais charge was only registered a few days before CSI went into admin... how can that be legal FFS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 no way the WRC image rights are worth the money Antonov paid, then again it wasn't his cash so the purchase price was irrelevant - so Chanrai ain't gonna see his money back from that little sale. You have to admire Vlad's cheek though, cruising the world buying shedloads of stuff using a bank guarantee that he's printed himself in the back bedroom. How does the league feel about being conned in this way by the owner of one of their own clubs? You'd think it might annoy them that Lampitt welcomed these people into their world, approved the sale and declared them as fit and proper to run a league club. Rangers and Bournemouth must be ****ing themselves laughing - and so they should be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 The club - probably 10mil or so to pay off chanrai? (how much is still owed to him?) The Bloomberg report suggests it's [still] £17.2m, the amount deferred for 2 years from the date of Chinny's takeover, plus interest at 8%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey-deacons-left-nut Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Just reading that article myself, bit that got me was ''Roman Dubov, a director of CSI, said the Football League spent “at least one to two months” to check Antonov’s credentials and found nothing wrong. '' 4 to 8 weeks looking at Antonov and no alarm bells rung??? The problem they've got is, that theres was nothing actually proven. We found plenty of juicy gossip and hearsay, but he had yet to be convicted of anything. That's all the FA can go on, otherwise say I wanted to take over Plymouth, someone who didn't want me to do that could plant loads of storries on the web about me being a kiddy filddling arsonist who likes stealing money from dying grannies. All they could possibly have done is say "we've had a look, there is no legal reason why he can't buy the club, but on you head be it.." The blame lies wholly at Chinnys door, he knew full well how didgy these guys were , he probably knew where the cash was coming from and he didn't care, he just wanted his make believe loan money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 The problem they've got is, that theres was nothing actually proven. We found plenty of juicy gossip and hearsay, but he had yet to be convicted of anything. That's all the FA can go on, otherwise say I wanted to take over Plymouth, someone who didn't want me to do that could plant loads of storries on the web about me being a kiddy filddling arsonist who likes stealing money from dying grannies. All they could possibly have done is say "we've had a look, there is no legal reason why he can't buy the club, but on you head be it.." The blame lies wholly at Chinnys door, he knew full well how didgy these guys were , he probably knew where the cash was coming from and he didn't care, he just wanted his make believe loan money back. And therein lies the problem with the Fit and Proper Persons test/Owners and Directors test/whatever it's called this week. Pompey fans can complain that the Premier League and Football League should have stopped the succession of dodgy owners from taking over, but as you rightly say, nothing had been proven against any of them at the time of them buying the club. Ultimately, the issue is that once a club is known to have had one dodgy owner, nobody reputable would realistically want to touch the club with a bargepole. How do they know that what they're being presented with in terms of the accounts is actually a true reflection? They simply wouldn't take that risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 And therein lies the problem with the Fit and Proper Persons test/Owners and Directors test/whatever it's called this week. Pompey fans can complain that the Premier League and Football League should have stopped the succession of dodgy owners from taking over, but as you rightly say, nothing had been proven against any of them at the time of them buying the club. Ultimately, the issue is that once a club is known to have had one dodgy owner, nobody reputable would realistically want to touch the club with a bargepole. How do they know that what they're being presented with in terms of the accounts is actually a true reflection? They simply wouldn't take that risk. There should be a basic rule of thumb at the Football League and the FA...and it is this. If it looks fishy, and smells fishy, they're a potential owner of Portsmouth City Football Club 2010/1998... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 The Bloomberg report suggests it's [still] £17.2m, the amount deferred for 2 years from the date of Chinny's takeover, plus interest at 8%. In this crazy modern world of Derivatives & CDS's, wouldn't actually be surprised if Chinny didn't ell the poopey mortgage and the Snoras loan note for around 75% of their value to some poor sucker's pension plan, thus actually making a profit and then getting the same pieces of paper back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 16 December, 2011 Share Posted 16 December, 2011 Looks like the extradition could take a while: http://twitter.com/#!/pn_Rory_McKeown sorted into order Currently in court three waiting for Vladimir Antonov and Raimondas Baranauskas. Antonov and Baranauskas are both in court three. Defence seeking to submit evidence from witnesses and experts. Claim the expropriation of assets was politically motivated. Judge John Zani agrees to hold a review hearing on January 30th. Vladimir Antonov has spoken to me after the court hearing. I asked him about the future of Portsmouth Football Club. His answer was: 'Everything will be fine. Play up Pompey.' He confirmed to me that he will not be attending the match on Sunday. #Pompey He addressed the press. Mr Antonov said: 'This is a political case and we are going to prove it. That's all I am saying on the matter.' To clarify the outcome of today's hearing: Mr Antonov and Mr Baranauskas will return to court for a review hearing on January 30th. They will then return to court on March 22nd and 23rd to cover the preliminary issues of the case. A hearing will then be held between 8th and 18th of May to cover 'substantive issues'.[url=http://twitter.com/#!/pn_Rory_McKeown][/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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