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England v Italy


Batman

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Italy have been even worse than us in the build up to this

 

But they are no mugs. World Champions 2 world cups ago and European runners up 2 years ago. They usually arrive when it counts

 

A draw would be good for us.

 

Welbeck has to miss out for sterling

Rooney has to deliver

I really think that if Rooney or Lallana fail to do much, either will drop out for Barkley for the Uruguay game

 

No doubt Italy will target Johnson as our weak link. He is just so bad. Just so so odd that he is the only right back in the squad when there are 3-4 players other than walker who are better than him who are not in the 23. WTF

 

I'm going for 1-1

Edited by Batman
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Johnson sure does scare the hell out of me too, caught out of position so many times it isn't funny. If someone can let me know how he's a better player than Clyne then let me know.

 

I'd more or less go with what you said Batman, plus keep Henderson in next to Gerrad over Wilshire and Lampard. It's staggering how offer Wilshire gets caught in possestion and the Italians will Madame us pay for that in the middle of the park.

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We need to beat either Italy or Uruguay to get out the group and I feel this is the one. It will be close, decided by a set piece or something. Italy are notoriously slow starters to tournaments so hoping for the same this time round....

 

Oh and hope Sturridge finds his shooting boots also...think he left them at Anfield.

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To those who are describing Italy as nothing special, I am intrigued to as what they think England are?! This isn't the best Italian team ever, but we aren't all that great ourselves, a shaky defence and failed to break down a 10 man Honduras side who will be one of the contenders for the worst team at the World Cup.

 

Italy almost always suck in the build up to major tournaments, but more often than not they deliver when it matters, something we have rarely managed to do. They have World Cup winners & European finalists in their ranks, we don't have one player who has been past the quarters. Write them off at your peril is my view.

 

I am hopeful we can get a draw against them, 1-1 draw is my prediction. If we can nullify Pirlo our chances will certainly be a lot better, but De Rossi can still dominate the midfield. I just hope we go out and have a go at them rather than try to defend for the entire 90 minutes and allow Pirlo to do as he pleases like we did in the Euros, if we repeat that performance I don't think we'll get so lucky a 2nd time. After Italy I think we'll go on to lose to Uruguay and finish 3rd in the group. That's been my feelings for a while and the 3 friendlies have done nothing to persuade me to change that view. 2nd round would be a great achievement IMO.

Edited by saints_is_the_south
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Perhaps I'm a bit blinkered but I've seen nothing to consider that Baines is ahead of Shaw at the moment, I thought that he was poor again yesterday and would actually drop him, then really go for it with Sterling and Barkley in as well as the OX (if or when he is fit !)

Too often the 'big name' players stand in the way of the fresh youngsters because they have 'experience', unfortunately their 'experience' has been that of underperforming and ultimately losing !!

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I agree entirely rooney and welbeck not up to it currently. Need dropping to make them wake up and smell the coffee.

 

it takes a bit more than 100% fitness..... and some sweet words about the honour of playing for England to galvanise some players into action. Last season they didn't manage it, otherwise MU would have qualified for Europe.

 

They can afford to spend time sitting on their fat wallets on the bench and talk about the pride of being in the squad, without ever setting foot on the pitch. They are strikers, they need to score goals. :rule1:

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i watched the thunderstorm game yesterday on record. Even tho it was record, i watched the thunderstorm in full cos it was lols.

 

I had eye out for lallana & i thought he was good. He plays a different more patient game than the rest of the bros tho, he don't relinquish a good position just cos he's marked, he waits for the move to develop or until it goes to Wellbz & gets lost. I like Wellbz, but he is played too deep sometimes.

 

I thought Rooney looked a lot more sharp, that was good. Wilshere would be good if he was fit. Johnson is shite.

 

England will play poorly & eek out a draw, as per usual.

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Sadly Roy is another Eng manager who's instinct is hard work and not to lose, Rooney and Welbeck will play, it will be a slow tepid game and if it's 0-0 both managers will walk away delighted

 

Pirlo scares me though, he'll be the best player on the pitch

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Which of Italy and England is better suited to playing in heat and humidity? Possession will be key. There's a case for the likes of Lambert and Lallana. Do we man mark Pirlo and who should do it? Italy could be vulnerable to the counter attack. Keep possession then bring on fresh young legs for the final 30 minutes. On the face of it this has 0-0 written all over it but it is winnable.

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When closed down quickly we do not seem to possess the technical skills to retain possession even against a lowly ranked team such as Honduras. We seem prone to panic in defense and have a few old school players capable of making critical mistakes. Confidence is the key built upon by great team spirit. I suspect we are a little short in both departments as the media frenzy sets unrealistic expectations, yet again. All this " getting out of the group would be a great achievement" that's contradicted almost immediately with " this young team could go far".

I really want to enjoy 3 good performances but anticpate 2 losses and a meaningless last game win.

Would love my prediction to be proven wrong though.

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Our defence is average but we look good going forward. We'll need to be a lot more ruthless in front of goal. I would probably start the side that played against Honduras, and look to bring Sterling and Barkley on as we tire.

 

Could get a draw v Italy.

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Lallana won't start in my opinion, Welbeck did enough on Saturday, Lallana struggled and I expect Sterling to replace him.

 

Lallana was given MOTM...

 

By who?

 

The public.

 

BppD3wTIAAEkEmN.jpg:large

 

To say he struggled is very harsh, especially if you think Danny "Bambi on Ice" Welbeck was better. Welbeck isn't remotely close to Lallana in terms of being comfortable on the ball, Welbeck struggles to get the ball under control let alone do anything constructive with it.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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Sterling should start, the most in form attacker we have.

 

Seems to be fleet streets favourite at the moment. Wonder if he shouldn't be on the bench as if the italian coaches watched him against Honduras they'll realise that although he is quick and very skilfull, a few cynical late tackles will wind him up.

 

Having said that, Sterling and Barclay have got massive potential.. Barclay looks very comfortable on the ball and I reckon that him and Lallana could really link up well.

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Sadly Roy is another Eng manager who's instinct is hard work and not to lose, Rooney and Welbeck will play, it will be a slow tepid game and if it's 0-0 both managers will walk away delighted

 

Pirlo scares me though, he'll be the best player on the pitch

 

There is surely no question that Pirlo will be THE class act on the pitch. He is head and shoulders above everyone including Gerrard and makes Rooney look like a pygmy by comparison in footballing terms, to paraphrase Ibrahimovich in that famous quote - what Rooney does with a ball Pirlo can do with an orange. Only Buffon is even close to that quality. He is a beautiful footballer recognized around the world as a master, even as that rare thing a universally acknowledged footballing genius at 35 years old. With him Iniesta, Ronaldo, Neymar and Messi we are very lucky to have such outstanding quality all present at the same time at this WC. It will be a privilege to watch him play v England irrespective of the outcome.

 

In Italy they revere players like that - think of Baggio, Totti, even Cassano to a lesser extent. And yet its apparently the land of the catennaccio mentality. How bizarre that the home of anti-football should always pick and play genius talents yet one of the homes of attacking exciting football like what England are - always end up picking the mediocrities, and failing by consequence. In England up until this last squad a flair player won't make the squad even if he scores a hattrick v russia in the last warm up match.....Gascoigne was a rare one that slipped through somehow. This squad IS different though. We have got talents. But Roy has to play them and play them in the right positions though.

 

Is Pirlo able to cope with three hot games in a row though and then maybe more matches ~ I don't think so ~ but for the first match versus England he should be fresh enough.

 

Roy must not repeat his previous mistake in allowing Pirlo space like the last time England got taught a footballing lesson by Italy in that embarrassingly one-sided Euro's 0-0 draw that eventually finished the right way for the way superior team when Pirlo chipped the ball over Hart during that penalty shoot out.

 

No, that won't happen again so he will have to appoint one of the attackers or offensive midfielders to essentially man mark him. So that attacker or offensive mf might be picked largely upon his defensive ability. Not how many goals he scored in the EPl last year or his assist record or number of caps. Its on can you stop Pirlo doing what he has done to almost every team he's ever played against - and that is provide killer passes that only he can see and execute, often first time.

 

For the less cynical amongst you we got a player that can see and make those type of passes that are impossible for average players too, and he plays for Uruguay.

 

I can see England being able to snuff out Pirlo for all the praise i lavished on him above.A young guy with good legs should do it. Welbeck or Adz not a Sterling or a Sturridge or a Rooney or a Barkley, not a Gerrard as he will be deep himself nor a Henderson who i think will also be deep but it might be him on a special "mission" to basically sacrifice himself ( well he's ****e anyway ;-) to neutralize Pirlo. Wilshire cant defend for toffee so its not him either. Milner is our token mediocrity "utility" man keeping a real talent out of the squad so maybe that will be his job.

 

I reckon Italy are not going to get through on reputation alone but their experience in the confederations cup will help a great deal (they came third) but lost with honour. This match looks like draw at half time then take your pick for full time. I will be popping a decent amount on the draw and especially 0-0. My target is to see a £10,000 balance in my bet365 account by the end of the WC, starting from just £650.

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The public.

 

BppD3wTIAAEkEmN.jpg:large

 

To say he struggled is very harsh, especially if you think Danny "Bambi on Ice" Welbeck was better. Welbeck isn't remotely close to Lallana in terms of being comfortable on the ball, Welbeck struggles to get the ball under control let alone do anything constructive with it.

 

Welbeck linked up very well with the other front players.

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Welbeck linked up very well with the other front players.

 

It looked to me like he just ran around a bit more than the others, the word frantic sprang to mind. He is the one decision that I really don't get being in the starting 11. He tries to play like a forward but that isn't the role Roy is putting him in. I lost count of the amount of times that Welbeck instead of taking a constructive pass to Lallana or Sturridge instead decided to awkwardly go for it himself or just simply fail to make room for any option other than to pass it back to defenders.

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It looks to me that Woy is getting the team to pass patiently until a true opening forms, but this relies on good fluidity of movement from all and this is an area of concern...they've not clicked yet, but if they do it could be good. Woy needs to get them pressing opposition more too. Unfortunately England don't do as well what Saints have done well over the last 2 years - if they did, there's enough quality in the side to go a long way in the tournament IMO.

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I think this one is going to be a low scoring draw or a tight Italian win.

 

Either way I cannot see it being anything other than a fairly dull encounter, neither team will want to lose and fear will rule over ambition.

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Is Pirlo able to cope with three hot games in a row though and then maybe more matches ~ I don't think so ~ but for the first match versus England he should be fresh enough.

 

Roy must not repeat his previous mistake in allowing Pirlo space like the last time England got taught a footballing lesson by Italy in that embarrassingly one-sided Euro's 0-0 draw that eventually finished the right way for the way superior team when Pirlo chipped the ball over Hart during that penalty shoot out.

 

No, that won't happen again so he will have to appoint one of the attackers or offensive midfielders to essentially man mark him. So that attacker or offensive mf might be picked largely upon his defensive ability. Not how many goals he scored in the EPl last year or his assist record or number of caps. Its on can you stop Pirlo doing what he has done to almost every team he's ever played against - and that is provide killer passes that only he can see and execute, often first time.

 

For the less cynical amongst you we got a player that can see and make those type of passes that are impossible for average players too, and he plays for Uruguay.

 

I can see England being able to snuff out Pirlo for all the praise i lavished on him above.A young guy with good legs should do it. Welbeck or Adz not a Sterling or a Sturridge or a Rooney or a Barkley, not a Gerrard as he will be deep himself nor a Henderson who i think will also be deep but it might be him on a special "mission" to basically sacrifice himself ( well he's ****e anyway ;-) to neutralize Pirlo. Wilshire cant defend for toffee so its not him either. Milner is our token mediocrity "utility" man keeping a real talent out of the squad so maybe that will be his job.

 

 

I agree we should man mark Pirlo and it would seem sensible to detail one of our lesser attackers. That's Wellbeck. However, Peter Taylor was arguing at the weekend that he would ask Rooney to drop deep. Someone made your point; that's a waste of Rooney's attacking talent (less evident recently). But Taylor made a good argument, that if Rooney is standing by Pirlo when England regains possession, Pirlo will have to follow Rooney or we're a man over. Will Pirlo do it, in the heat, on every occasion?

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This game has draw written all over it, especially if Woy picks that fat tub of sh!te Rooney.

 

I've lost interest in England now all 'our' star players have decided to kick us in the nuts just before what should have been an enjoyable pride filled occasion.

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I agree we should man mark Pirlo and it would seem sensible to detail one of our lesser attackers. That's Wellbeck. However, Peter Taylor was arguing at the weekend that he would ask Rooney to drop deep. Someone made your point; that's a waste of Rooney's attacking talent (less evident recently). But Taylor made a good argument, that if Rooney is standing by Pirlo when England regains possession, Pirlo will have to follow Rooney or we're a man over. Will Pirlo do it, in the heat, on every occasion?

 

To be honest, that would be the ultimate sacrifice if England's so called best player was assigned man marking duties on Pirlo. Bit Rooney COULD do it. And there is a precedent. If you read Pirlos autobiography you will see that only SAF managed to snuff Pirlo out using Park ji sung as basically a full time guard dog despite him being about the most famous Asian player at the time and a mega star in his own right. I'm not sure Rooney has got the lack of ego to do that.

Pirlo would NOT follow Rooney. He's got de Rossi to do all that sort of stuff and some other hardworking mf's.

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So who will replace Lallana after 45 minutes? Let's face it he couldn't last 60 minutes in mid winter for us so how is he expected to last 90 in a Sauna?

 

Set piece to win it, Cahill or SRL header.

 

2am kick off here, Pubs shut at 3am. Great

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So who will replace Lallana after 45 minutes? Let's face it he couldn't last 60 minutes in mid winter for us so how is he expected to last 90 in a Sauna?

 

Set piece to win it, Cahill or SRL header.

 

2am kick off here, Pubs shut at 3am. Great

 

Lock in?

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This game has draw written all over it, especially if Woy picks that fat tub of sh!te Rooney.

 

I've lost interest in England now all 'our' star players have decided to kick us in the nuts just before what should have been an enjoyable pride filled occasion.

 

 

You won't want to read this article then

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/09/adam-lallana-england-world-cup-2014

 

Henderson or Rooney to push up on Pirlo? If Rooney could stay disciplined it would be an interesting battle. I read one article saying that England will put pressure on Pirlo by adopting a high tempo game, that will be tough in Manaus, but could suggest that the three subs could all be from the attacking midfield group.

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Where's everyone watching then? Can't normally stand pubs when football's on TV, especially for England games when every Tarquin and Jeremy comes out of the woodwork every 4 years with their faces painted. But then again an all dayer is quite appealing and much better than sitting on the sofa.

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Not that roy will play this. but this is my team.......

 

 

----------------------Hart

 

--johnson (ffs)---Jagielka--cahill-----baines

 

-----------------gerrard

 

------------Lallana-----Barkley

 

Sterling------------------Sturridge

 

-----------Rooney

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Not that roy will play this. but this is my team.......

 

 

----------------------Hart

 

--johnson (ffs)---Jagielka--cahill-----baines

 

-----------------gerrard

 

------------Lallana-----Barkley

 

Sterling------------------Sturridge

 

-----------Rooney

 

I think that midfield would get eaten up by Pirlo, if I'm honest. Would go with Henderson and Gerrard just to have some solidity in there, may be a bit boring, but keep Pirlo quiet and you're onto something.

 

Would start Sterling personally though.

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Potentially a huge boost for England as Danny Welbeck may have picked up an injury. I'm sure the lad is devastated but it'll be for the greater good if Hodgson isn't given the chance to pick him in the starting line-up. Would give everyone a boost if he was confirmed as out injured (apart from the boy himself and his family obviously).

 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27789874

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Potentially a huge boost for England as Danny Welbeck may have picked up an injury. I'm sure the lad is devastated but it'll be for the greater good if Hodgson isn't given the chance to pick him in the starting line-up. Would give everyone a boost if he was confirmed as out injured (apart from the boy himself and his family obviously).

 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27789874

 

My thoughts exactly. I actually fist pumped when I heard. Terrible for the lad but he shouldn't have been selected and Roy shouldn't have persisted in trying to cram him into first team.

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Not sure if anyone has seen this, but it's worth watching Pat Nevin's analysis of how England should (and probably will play) against Italy: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27719078

 

The way the fullbacks and DMs are used is particularly interesting, and accounts for why Glen Johnson is persistently used. Though it still doesn't make sense why England didn't take Clyne as backup who (after watching some of the highlights from last season) is incredible down the right wing.

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If it's that bad, Italy are easily do-able. They keep the ball and pass it around, on a pitch like that they will be unable to. It's going to benefit us more.....

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If it's that bad, Italy are easily do-able. They keep the ball and pass it around, on a pitch like that they will be unable to. It's going to benefit us more.....

 

I was thinking about that, and I got the impression the Italians will adapt better to the conditions. I reckon the precious England players will really let it affect them and will already be planning on using it as an excuse. The Italians will just get on with it IMHO

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