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Red Alert

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
Just now, badgerx16 said:

Seeing some of the shite posted on Quora I think it's endemic. After all, they elected Trump.

 

Might be a good question for forum members based in the US.

I thought it might have been Batman wondering if there was a Rome in Italy

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Winnersaint

Winnersaint

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Pol pot country - year zero and all that.

 

17 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Is there a chance that some parts of the US are going to effectively become fundamentalist Christian states ?

Effectively yes. Christian Nationalism gone berserk. From what I've read it's rooted back with the christian right (mainly from South/ Mid-West) looking for a single issue bandwagon to jump on and is relatively recent. The initial cause was around school segregation which didn't have the legs.

It's worth pointing out that in Islam Sharia Law permits abortion for up to 120 days in the case of nonviable pregnancies and where the life of a mother is at risk. Certainly not an advocate of the latter but it puts the overturning of Roe v Wade in perspective when considering how critically backward that law code looks to our western non-Muslim eyes.

Also add in the following: No universal, health or childcare. No paid leave for family or medical reasons and one of the highest rates of maternal mortality among higher income countries. Land of the free! Home of the right royally f*****! Its what happens when you let libertarians run amok. 

 

 

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skintsaint

skintsaint

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Probably the same people demanding that abortions are illegal want to ensure everyone has access to automatic rifles!

Its the American way, don't abort while in early stages of pregnancy, do it while they are in school by some nutjob.

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Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

What a strange decision.  Probably the same people demanding that abortions are illegal want to ensure everyone has access to automatic rifles!

The fewer abortions, the more people. The more people, the more available targets in your NRA encouraged killing spree. 🙂

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saint1977

saint1977

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Winnersaint said:

 

Effectively yes. Christian Nationalism gone berserk. From what I've read it's rooted back with the christian right (mainly from South/ Mid-West) looking for a single issue bandwagon to jump on and is relatively recent. The initial cause was around school segregation which didn't have the legs.

It's worth pointing out that in Islam Sharia Law permits abortion for up to 120 days in the case of nonviable pregnancies and where the life of a mother is at risk. Certainly not an advocate of the latter but it puts the overturning of Roe v Wade in perspective when considering how critically backward that law code looks to our western non-Muslim eyes.

Also add in the following: No universal, health or childcare. No paid leave for family or medical reasons and one of the highest rates of maternal mortality among higher income countries. Land of the free! Home of the right royally f*****! Its what happens when you let libertarians run amok. 

 

 

It’s been brewing since Nixon’s Southern Strategy of the early 1970s eg get the racist Democrats in the south voting for the Republicans and rev them up on inter-racial busing initially. Since 1973 and Roe Vs Wade abortion has been another rallying point for the lunatics in the Evangelical Conservative movement with whackos like Pat Robertson and the rise of large scale direct mail campaigning pre internet. Of course these people and their descendants are voting Trump in huge numbers along with the alt/far right which has ballooned in the last decade. 

I can’t see either the NE states, Washington, more modern South/Midwest or West Coast states following it, it’ll be the hard right states like Florida, Texas, Mississippi, Virginia who slavishly follow this. Florida has been a far right authoritarian state for a while now with very conservative censorship and electoral restrictions, the Governor controlling Florida State University’s academic appointments being the latest overreach. A lot of the skilled people I know in Florida are getting jobs in democratic states north and west and escaping. They will lap this ruling up the Florida Republicans, especially the Americans Cubans who are the worst in Florida for being extremist.

Biden might be last President that rules the whole country, Trump has divided it so badly I can only see hefty devolution amongst the states keeping the US together otherwise it could go up in flames. Might be a good opportunity for the states more aligned with western civilisation to curb the NRA, put proper universal healthcare in place and push their educational systems ahead. Let the Republican-dominated states die on their arse like Detroit did at one stage. 

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saint1977

saint1977

Posted
Posted
On 24/06/2022 at 16:44, badgerx16 said:

Justice Clarence Thomas, the most "conservative" SC member, has written that it should now revisit other previous decisions, looking, for instance, to overturn the legal rights of access to contraception and same-sex marriage.

Saw that as well, Thomas is a very polarising figure. Unfortunately he and the other conservative appointments have an in-built majority. You can’t see the likes of New York City, California, the NE and Washington living in a facist country like that being global places so I do foresee some independence happening as the conservatives in the US resemble a mix of the worst populist regimes eg Russia (which is why significant parts of the Republicans support Putin in Ukraine), Hungary and Brazil, and with the Taliban. Thankfully the British electorate going by recent results seem to have woken up and realised the Tories were heading towards a ‘light’ version of this after the meetings between Bannon, JRM et Al. 

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, saint1977 said:

It’s been brewing since Nixon’s Southern Strategy of the early 1970s eg get the racist Democrats in the south voting for the Republicans and rev them up on inter-racial busing initially. Since 1973 and Roe Vs Wade abortion has been another rallying point for the lunatics in the Evangelical Conservative movement with whackos like Pat Robertson and the rise of large scale direct mail campaigning pre internet. Of course these people and their descendants are voting Trump in huge numbers along with the alt/far right which has ballooned in the last decade. 

I can’t see either the NE states, Washington, more modern South/Midwest or West Coast states following it, it’ll be the hard right states like Florida, Texas, Mississippi, Virginia who slavishly follow this. Florida has been a far right authoritarian state for a while now with very conservative censorship and electoral restrictions, the Governor controlling Florida State University’s academic appointments being the latest overreach. A lot of the skilled people I know in Florida are getting jobs in democratic states north and west and escaping. They will lap this ruling up the Florida Republicans, especially the Americans Cubans who are the worst in Florida for being extremist.

Biden might be last President that rules the whole country, Trump has divided it so badly I can only see hefty devolution amongst the states keeping the US together otherwise it could go up in flames. Might be a good opportunity for the states more aligned with western civilisation to curb the NRA, put proper universal healthcare in place and push their educational systems ahead. Let the Republican-dominated states die on their arse like Detroit did at one stage. 

I agree entirely.

The UK and I daresay most of the world see America as one country. The UNITED states of America. Unfortunately when the American constitution was written one of the main objectives was to ensure that states still had their own rights and the power of central government was restricted. Hence Montana and North Dakota have the same number of senators as California and New York. There are  restrictions on what the federal government can do and individual states still have great power. Despite what the rest of the world thinks the country is not United. 

I can see the country splitting in two. Progressive states like California and the New England states will go their own way. The country may still be called the USA but it will be far from United.

 

 

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, whelk said:

Not even hiding it anymore 

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1540852015693037568

The same woman has previously said that "Hitler was right on one thing....whoever has the youth has the future".

 

Meanwhile

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61941591

Firms say they will cover travel costs for female staff seeking abortions under employment healthcare insurance.

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saint1977

saint1977

Posted
Posted (edited)

Mary Miller meant what she said, you don’t mix up ‘white life’ with ‘right to life’ without at least correcting yourself on the stump. The fact Trump was there nodding and there was a raucous cheer tells you everything.

My question is when is western media going to tell the truth about what the Republican Party has become? They are happy to label Marie Le Pen et Al as far right and her National Front, whilst highly unpleasant, is nowhere near as facist as the Republicans have become. ‘The Far Right Republican Party’ needs to be their label for a generation on every single news report going forward. If they win in 2024 then they have to be globally isolated like North Korea, Afghanistan, Russia and similar regimes, the disgraceful coup attempt on Capitol Hill will become a mere bagatelle. Important now that global finance is built up both within the US and beyond to support Harris for 2024 assuming she wins nomination and save democracy.

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Plastic

Plastic

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

19 year old American singer Olivia Rodrigo sends a special message to 6 Supreme Court Justices during her set at Glastonbury ;

From what I would otherwise consider two vacuous pop-stars, actually a very powerful performance, all things considered. 

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Picard said:

Any one thinking stopping abortion will increase white numbers(relatively) is mistaken as there are more abortions amongst the minorities.

Yeah racists and white supremacists aren't really well known for their attention to actual facts.

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Mystic Force

Mystic Force

Posted
Posted

The response to a drift towards authoritarian tendency on the right of the US political spectrum has been an embrace of leftist authoritarianism as a counter. As religiosity has started to marginally fall, an attempt is being made to entrench its seat at the table before the opportunity is lost, and using accidental quirks of the system to ram through agendas unopposed to help those with money to make more money. The energy of the leftist is fully engaged in defending the rights of those who they can feel most sorry for without even asking what this hypothetical and probably non existent person needs most. Whilst acting like a bunch of Karen's if they were actually asked to sacrifice a little themselves for the less fortunate they supposedly champion. Everyone here loves freedom until it made gas (petrol) cost more, and the first amendment until anyone says something you do not like. 

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saint1977

saint1977

Posted
Posted

Damning stuff. Won’t change the minds of any of the Neo Nazi zealots who vote for Trump but should help motivate those who don’t to vote Democrat consistently until the Republicans are cleansed of being fascist scum. Frighteningly, Trump appears to be in a race for 2024 nomination with Florida’s Ron DeSantis and it’s a genuine debate as to whether he’s much better. He is probably is on the basis he hasn’t mounted an armed coup after comprehensively losing an election https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61970258

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The Left Back

The Left Back

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Mystic Force said:

The response to a drift towards authoritarian tendency on the right of the US political spectrum has been an embrace of leftist authoritarianism as a counter. As religiosity has started to marginally fall, an attempt is being made to entrench its seat at the table before the opportunity is lost, and using accidental quirks of the system to ram through agendas unopposed to help those with money to make more money. The energy of the leftist is fully engaged in defending the rights of those who they can feel most sorry for without even asking what this hypothetical and probably non existent person needs most. Whilst acting like a bunch of Karen's if they were actually asked to sacrifice a little themselves for the less fortunate they supposedly champion. Everyone here loves freedom until it made gas (petrol) cost more, and the first amendment until anyone says something you do not like. 

I'm sorry probably just me but I have no idea at the point you are making.  Would you mind having another run at it?

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, The Left Back said:

I'm sorry probably just me but I have no idea at the point you are making.  Would you mind having another run at it?

America was right wing and moving further right under Trump.  America is now adopting left wing policies and moving further left under Biden.

Hopefully that sums it up for you?

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

Parts of America were right wing and moving further right under Trump.  Other parts of America are now adopting left wing policies and moving further left under Biden.

Hope you don't mind the edits.

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Mystic Force

Mystic Force

Posted
Posted (edited)

Number one it's not about economic policy on the whole.

Republicans have drifted towards control for controls sake, tossing out any adherence to a constitution if inconvenient. And are looking for ways to oppress people in the name of religion because that is what they think they need to do.

The democrats are becoming beholden to identity politics to such a degree that they are losing support from these groups because they do not actually offer any help to these groups. There is a constant outrage at everything, but never actually doing anything to help anyone.

Any consensus of progress in improving people's lives in general is lost as now the two groups mostly work for a select few. The already powerful on the right and the imagined oppressed people on the left (while ignoring actual problems, because it is hard and requires compromise). It leaves me in the middle scratching my head wondering what the fuck is going on while not being able to participate anyway as a Brit in the US.

Edited by Mystic Force
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The Left Back

The Left Back

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Mystic Force said:

Number one it's not about economic policy on the whole.

Republicans have drifted towards control for controls sake, tossing out any adherence to a constitution if inconvenient. And are looking for ways to oppress people in the name of religion because that is what they think they need to do.

The democrats are becoming beholden to identity politics to such a degree that they are losing support from these groups because they do not actually offer any help to these groups. There is a constant outrage at everything, but never actually doing anything to help anyone.

Any consensus of progress in improving people's lives in general is lost as now the two groups mostly work for a select few. The already powerful on the right and the imagined oppressed people on the left (while ignoring actual problems, because it is hard and requires compromise). It leaves me in the middle scratching my head wondering what the fuck is going on while not being able to participate anyway as a Brit in the US.

Thanks, very helpful. How long have you lived there and in which state (if you don't mind me asking)? I have family in Wisconsin and was quite attracted to the thought of living there as a lad in the early 80s.  One of very few wise choices I made then was to come home.

I guess the problem with the voting system out there is that despite there being a gaping (and increasing) hole between left and right, no-one is likely to fill it anytime soon. It needs someone to come and park their bus on the centre ground.  Actually we could do with something like that here too probably

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Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, The Left Back said:

I guess the problem with the voting system out there is that despite there being a gaping (and increasing) hole between left and right, no-one is likely to fill it anytime soon. It needs someone to come and park their bus on the centre ground.  Actually we could do with something like that here too probably

Perhaps California resident Nick Clegg could inspire, although not lead, a liberally democratic movement that would heal the divides in both our nations.  🙂

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Mystic Force

Mystic Force

Posted
Posted (edited)

I spent 15 years in Iowa, 3 years in west Virginia (it fucking sucks, decided to leave at earliest chance) and just moved to Tennessee. By contrast I lived in Southampton for 2 and it was fucking awesome. Except when a friend who lived in the city that should not be named would drive me over there, he is now a councilor on that fetid island....

The middle used to be occupied by a collection of Republicans and democrats who would get together on certain issues, but then Republicans decided that working with others was not for them. The democrats then held the center ground, but mostly as a reaction to Trump they have abandoned that to go find their own extremism. For structural reasons there can only be two parties. So I do not see it remedying any time soon without some external factor causing a rethink.

Edited by Mystic Force
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