david in sweden Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 (edited) .......somehow it happened again yesterday. Left Back has been one of the most " changed positions " in Saints' teams in the last 6 years. L1 days saw Dan Harding with the shirt..then Danny Fox...and Luke Shaw. GOODNESS how on earth will we ever replace Shaw:scared: asked so many?. Ryan Bertrand's absences allowed Matt Targett to move up, and yesterday Sam McQueen finished his Prem. debut looking like he'd been playing all season. People talk about the Academy, and "The Black Box ", but most of all there is a tremendous spirit within the squad that allows players to come into the team, or take their turn on the bench....and still come on and DAJFU....even though we've have had two major overhauls of the squad in the last two years. Only... Fonte, Davis, JWP, Rodriguez and Yoshida remain from the regular first team squad that started with Pochettino.....just 3 seasons ago. So we did replace Luke Shaw...and have done so with many others since. It's a tad unfair to say that "so-and-so" isn't as good as..."someone who's left", but you don't need a long memory to recall that both Pelle and (especially) Mane, weren't so special in their early games, and Wanyama was "all over the place" in the beginning. It's just a case of taking time to "gell " into the squad. Soon even the new faces will become familiar and find their way, and become first team "regulars ". Claude Puel's policy gives everyone a chance and is gradually paying off . Only in the summer we read rumours that Targett and McQueen might be on the move, but clearly Claude has other ideas. According to rumour, had Koeman still been with us, Hesketh, McQueen and Olamola might never have made it to the first team bench. Sam McQueen's Prem. debut yesterday was just another example of a player coming in and finding their role. Losing players may sadden some of us, but with "tailor-made" replacements coming off the bench...it can be seen that...."changing a tyre ....is much less complicated than fitting a new engine." Edited 17 October, 2016 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintadam Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 Big up to Puel to throw in Mcqueen instead of what probably Koeman would choose (Yoshida). I think McQueen had an almost flawless game, tho he's in for a bigger test the upcoming games tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Site Agent Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 I was really impressed with Sam yesterday. I thought we would try and give Martina the lions share of passes and leave Sam a little isolated, but no he flew and some of his crosses were really on target, (excuse the pun). He stepped up and did well after being thrust into the limelight and I would like to see some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 McQueen is a converted winger, so it's not surprising he had joy against a team that sat back and offered nothing in attack. Lets see how well he defends before getting too excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 The lad played very well indeed, and I was delighted to see that. I'm sure he will start against Inter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 McQueen is a converted winger, so it's not surprising he had joy against a team that sat back and offered nothing in attack. Lets see how well he defends before getting too excited. Yep, this would be my concern (especially if he plays Thursday). Fair play to the lad though, he done all that he needed to do and had a lot more going forward than Targett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 17 October, 2016 Author Share Posted 17 October, 2016 McQueen is a converted winger, so it's not surprising he had joy against a team that sat back and offered nothing in attack. Lets see how well he defends before getting too excited. didn't I read somewhere ....that Sam began at full back as a boy ...and was later converted to a midfielder....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 He had a good game yesterday but was never really tested defensively his crossing was pretty good and he looked quicker than Targett. It was a good debut and given the lack of other options I guess will see a bit of him in the next few games but I think ill reverse judgement on him for a bit longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 So to sunmarize Daves post McQueen came on for his premier league debut and had a good game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 (edited) McQueen is a converted winger, so it's not surprising he had joy against a team that sat back and offered nothing in attack. Lets see how well he defends before getting too excited. So was Wayne Bridge for over a season he played mostly left wing in the first team! Edited 17 October, 2016 by a1ex2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 He was excellent yesterday but it was quite a nice game to get thrown into. On the ball and going forwards he is clearly good enough but, as others have said, the test will be when we play a team with better attacking players than Burnley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 One thing I notice is that all our academy players seem to have very good technical ability, they might not all the be the fastest, or biggest or able to dribble round 4 players but they can all very comfortably control, pass, cross and shoot to a decent level and do it at a high speed/tempo. Which means they will generally slot into a team well and do a job with little risk. Of course it's his defensive ability that needs to be tested but we play with advanced full backs so they will spend a lot of time attacking and he showed he was very good at that. He should have had two assists, I'd reckon a more match sharp jay rod would have stuck that cross away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 Big up to Puel to throw in Mcqueen instead of what probably Koeman would choose (Yoshida). I think McQueen had an almost flawless game, tho he's in for a bigger test the upcoming games tho. I think Yoshida had just come back from a long tiring trip to Australia and was probably ear marked for Milan hence McQueen was the obvious choice! However McQueen did a great job could also dive for Britain at the olympics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewYorkSaint Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 I think Yoshida had just come back from a long tiring trip to Australia and was probably ear marked for Milan hence McQueen was the obvious choice! However McQueen did a great job could also dive for Britain at the olympics! personally, don't think it was a dive. his rear foot is stepped on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 personally, don't think it was a dive. his rear foot is stepped on. He deffo was touched but the Tom Daily impression afterwards was very funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 What I like about Puel is that he is not scared to give the youngsters a go,Koeman would of put Yoshida on yesterday at LB and so would of Poch,but Puel is installing belief that the kids can come in and do a job,he played some decent balls in yesterday and won the Pen for the 2nd,will probably start in the San Siro and he will be full of confidence for that. The academy is famed for producing young talent and its about time we had a manager that believes in that and is going to find our next pool of talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 He deffo was touched but the Tom Daily impression afterwards was very funny That's how I saw it touch little stumble then thought go for it and a slightly delayed swallow dive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 What I like about Puel is that he is not scared to give the youngsters a go,Koeman would of put Yoshida on yesterday at LB and so would of Poch,but Puel is installing belief that the kids can come in and do a job,he played some decent balls in yesterday and won the Pen for the 2nd,will probably start in the San Siro and he will be full of confidence for that. The academy is famed for producing young talent and its about time we had a manager that believes in that and is going to find our next pool of talent Be fair, Poch gave the kids chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 Big up to Puel to throw in Mcqueen instead of what probably Koeman would choose (Yoshida) Exactly what I thought. There's nothing better than watching an academy boy thrive and Koeman didn't really deliver any of those moments. Maybe he would have done had Hesketh stayed fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pass the Dutchie Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 will probably start in the San Siro and he will be full of confidence for that. Just like Hesketh was against Hapoel Beer Sheva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 McQueen is a converted winger, so it's not surprising he had joy against a team that sat back and offered nothing in attack. Lets see how well he defends before getting too excited. This. He had nothing to do defensively. He did look very good going forward, very confident and delivered some great balls in which is expected from a converted winger. He certainly looks a little better going forward than Targett, but let's wait until he's had a proper test defensively first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 What other circumstance would McQueen have come on if not for an injury to Targett? He was on the bench to cover LB. You don't just fill a bench, players on the bench are put there because Puel thinks they can do a job if called upon. It would have been a huge negative for Sam if Yoshi was given the nod over him to replace Targett. The message is clear, if you make the bench you're there because Puel trusts you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 Just like Hesketh was against Hapoel Beer Sheva The whole team was awful in that game at that point. Hesketh was unlucky,literally any of them could of been pulled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 He's going to degrade too fast and possibly blow up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 As an aside - Its been mentioned elsewhere that Clasie put in his most visible showing of the season so far yesterday (probably in his whole time with us). With Claude being prepared to play the nippers more freely than RK, Harry Reeds enjoyment working with Puel has probably seen him start pushing Clasie in training thus upping his game, especially as his "mate" is no longer in charge to pick him by default. If that the case its great for the club to have academy lads pushing the Senior players again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 Just like Hesketh was against Hapoel Beer Sheva Big difference - Hesketh always has been lightweight - McQueen has bigger build and can take a challenge especially as has been out on loan in leagues below so physically aware of whats required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 17 October, 2016 Share Posted 17 October, 2016 Let's see how he goes in a game where he is remotely tested. Played well yesterday though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 18 October, 2016 Author Share Posted 18 October, 2016 (edited) Be fair, Poch gave the kids chances. Sorry, but that's not altogether correct. Pochettino was no great advocate of " introducing young players " into the first team. He is (wrongly) credited with introducing Luke Shaw to the first team, when in fact Shaw had already played more than a dozen games for Adkins before (his) dismissal. Of course, like many managers he played a few U21 lads in League Cup games, (a competition that both he and Nicola Cortese gave little credence to), aside from which ...the only notable use of a young player (Sam Gallagher) was forced upon him by injuries to Lambert, and laterly that season - Jay Rodriguez' injury. Most fans seem to (positively) consider Sam G to be "one for the future".. but he's still nowhere near Prem. level football - even today. Gallagher's tally of 18 late substitutions (usually the last 10 minutes ) amounted to little more than 5 hours of playing time. He only started games on two occasions. Calum Chambers apparant success at RB was also an enforced move, as Clyne was injured pre-season and Chambers was hastily converted to RB when he had previously played (quite well) as a U21 midfielder. His initial good start was encouraging, but Clyne got his place back as soon as he was fit again. Ronald's Koeman's suggestion / promise / rumoured use of young players was a PR gaff. With rare exception, very few young players got a look-in and even Jake Hesketh's selection in his sad debut against Burnley was due to ongoing injuries to Schneiderlin and Cork, and Matt Targett's early forays at LB were also down to Bertrand's injuries / suspensions that season. Not much sign of any concerted effort to bring on Academy graduates either, although it has to be said that very few of the former Academy lads in last season's U21's were anywhere near the right level for Prem. football. Claude Puel's reputation for bringing on young talent preceded him, and the fact that he's given Jake Hesketh game time shows that he is willing to " give it a go" , and all credit to him for bringing on Sam McQueen against Burnley, when using the more experienced Yoshida would have been "a much safer bet" needs to be acknowledged. It must give encouragement for the likes of; Reed, Isgrove, Stephens and Olamola who have all looked on from the bench a number of times already this season. Edited 18 October, 2016 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 18 October, 2016 Author Share Posted 18 October, 2016 So to sunmarize Daves post McQueen came on for his premier league debut and had a good game. ...actually, even more that McQ. was picked for the bench in the first place shows that Puel is committed to bringing on more younger Academy players. Many managers might have considered that putting on Yoshida ( who has no.3 shirt and started at LB after he signed)... would have been a much safer bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 18 October, 2016 Share Posted 18 October, 2016 I don't follow the forum enough to pick up on the whys and wherefores of various posters, but I think it would be recognised that a manager takes about ten games to get a feel for what the individual players can do. Puel had a disjointed start, as players gradually came back from the Euros, in reverse order with the best coming back last. He is proving to be a good judge of players and clearly has the ability to put out well balanced teams adequate enough to beat the relevant opponent, whilst rotating every game. His use of our youngsters is a bonus. I am warming to a manager who appears to be about the team / club rather than the fast track progression of his own career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesfp1 Posted 21 October, 2016 Share Posted 21 October, 2016 1.75 first team games and looks so composed. What a guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 21 October, 2016 Author Share Posted 21 October, 2016 1.75 first team games and looks so composed. What a guy. ....if he can turn in another good performance v. Man.City.... then he'll certainly give Matt Targett a run for his money as second choice LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saint Posted 21 October, 2016 Share Posted 21 October, 2016 This throws up the possibility of having three players who can put in a solid shift at left back. Certainly early days, but we seem to be spoiled for choice there. Having seen the way Matt and Sam can push forward, could we use either as left side midfield? Puel won't want to change the shape of the side too much, but with the rotational system being used to good effect it's another option for him to consider. Happy days.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 21 October, 2016 Share Posted 21 October, 2016 ....if he can turn in another good performance v. Man.City.... then he'll certainly give Matt Targett a run for his money as second choice LB. No doubt about it. As it stands we have three very good left backs, and two of them are young Academy products - the other is an England International...happy days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangermouth Posted 21 October, 2016 Share Posted 21 October, 2016 This throws up the possibility of having three players who can put in a solid shift at left back. Certainly early days, but we seem to be spoiled for choice there. Having seen the way Matt and Sam can push forward, could we use either as left side midfield? Puel won't want to change the shape of the side too much, but with the rotational system being used to good effect it's another option for him to consider. Happy days.... I had thought similar myself. As Targett seemed to do quite well in the 3-5-2 of last year if he has the legs it might suit him although I think McQueen is probably the better option overall. He wasn't as good as some made out yesterday but you could see when he argued with the ref about him not giving a corner that he was comfortable in his role. The thing I'd like to see with him and Targett is that they try it on a bit more when attacking the full back rather than play it safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 22 October, 2016 Author Share Posted 22 October, 2016 Targett seemed to do quite well in the 3-5-2 of last year. Had this thought myself at the time. 3-5-2 wasn't the favourite Koeman line-up, but it certainly put a new dimension into Matt Targett's game, and we managed to play him and Bertrand in the same game(s). Maybe Bertrand saw himself as a future CB ? As for Sam Mc Queen's "super start"....we'll see what he's capable of if he plays against Man City and Chelsea, but for someone who started out as a defender.... and was then converted to midfield, at least it doesn't feel like strange territory for him to cross over the halfway line and run with the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 22 October, 2016 Author Share Posted 22 October, 2016 So was Wayne Bridge for over a season he played mostly left wing in the first team! ......and as I recall....that Bale fella' seemed to improve somewhat after he moved upfield a bit ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 29 October, 2016 Share Posted 29 October, 2016 Liverpool - already?! https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/2074676/sam-mcqueen-to-liverpool-reds-to-battle-leicester-for-southampton-defender-after-impressive-string-of-performances/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 29 October, 2016 Share Posted 29 October, 2016 Liverpool - already?! https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/2074676/sam-mcqueen-to-liverpool-reds-to-battle-leicester-for-southampton-defender-after-impressive-string-of-performances/ Jesus LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 29 October, 2016 Share Posted 29 October, 2016 Liverpool - already?! https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/2074676/sam-mcqueen-to-liverpool-reds-to-battle-leicester-for-southampton-defender-after-impressive-string-of-performances/ £60m and he's theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 October, 2016 Share Posted 29 October, 2016 Liverpool - already?! https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/2074676/sam-mcqueen-to-liverpool-reds-to-battle-leicester-for-southampton-defender-after-impressive-string-of-performances/ Something is going to need to happen with at least one of Bertrand, Targett & McQueen at some point relatively soon (transfer or loan), as teams don't tend to have 3 left-backs 21 y/o+ in their squad and keep them all happy for a prolonged period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 30 October, 2016 Share Posted 30 October, 2016 Something is going to need to happen with at least one of Bertrand, Targett & McQueen at some point relatively soon (transfer or loan), as teams don't tend to have 3 left-backs 21 y/o+ in their squad and keep them all happy for a prolonged period. We know Liverpool love Bertrand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 30 October, 2016 Share Posted 30 October, 2016 Something is going to need to happen with at least one of Bertrand, Targett & McQueen at some point relatively soon (transfer or loan), as teams don't tend to have 3 left-backs 21 y/o+ in their squad and keep them all happy for a prolonged period. We know Liverpool love Bertrand. I doubt we'd release Bertrand soon to leave ourselves with two inexperienced and to some extent unproven players competing for that position. At the end of the season of course things may be different. The most likely outcome is the loan out of Targett or McQueen once RB's fitness is fully proven but even this could depend on our likely fixtures in the new year (League, EFL, EL, FA Cup). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 30 October, 2016 Share Posted 30 October, 2016 The rise of Sam McQueen is remarkable and although Bertrand is the clear No.1 at LB at the moment, it would be easy to see Sam and Matt Targett competing for the back-up spot. Their predecessor, Luke Shaw, still struggles to make an impact at Man U, despite 6 caps for England, the first of which he gained whilst still a Southampton player. Shaw's career has suffered from injury blights and to some extent you could say the same has happened to Bertrand, although to a lesser extent. We've now seen the recent injury to Matt Target, and with there being fewer left-sided players in the game, perhaps LB is a position where extra cover is a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 30 October, 2016 Share Posted 30 October, 2016 Targett and McQueen are miles off the level of Bertrand. Personally I am not convinced Targett is even PL quality. Offers nothing going forward and struggles against any opponent with a bit of pace who attacks him directly. No reason to sell Bertrand, but if that were to happen we would need a replacement of similar quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 30 October, 2016 Share Posted 30 October, 2016 Targett and McQueen are miles off the level of Bertrand. Personally I am not convinced Targett is even PL quality. Offers nothing going forward and struggles against any opponent with a bit of pace who attacks him directly. No reason to sell Bertrand, but if that were to happen we would need a replacement of similar quality. Targett offers quite a lot going forward and puts over a decent cross. Perhaps you haven't watched the many matches when he has done that. Granted that he is not up to Bertrand's standard, but still pretty useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 30 October, 2016 Author Share Posted 30 October, 2016 (edited) Targett offers quite a lot going forward and puts over a decent cross. Perhaps you haven't watched the many matches when he has done that. Granted that he is not up to Bertrand's standard, but still pretty useful. whilst I agree with that part, it should be remembered that Matt Targett is a left back (namely) a defensive role, and though he does look "useful" going forward, he lacks consistancy playing against a strong winger. Looking back over several decades (as I, and some others on here can).. we've had generations of full backs, who lost their way as soon as they crossed the halfway line, and so it's good to have players with that extra attacking ability, but primarily I want to see a left back who knows how to defend properly firstly.... any extra skills /ability are a bonus. We all got carried away with the short, but meteoric rise of Gareth Bale, not to mention those great free-kick goals, but his overall skill as a left back did leave something to be desired. Tottenham moved him forward more and more until we saw the end result, but his first season as Spurs was a nightmare, before he found his best role. My overall feeling is that Matt Targett (and to some extent) Sam McQueen, will need a while before they can really see if one of them will become a rival /or/ successor to the LB spot that is (at present) undoubtedly Ryan Bertrand's - by right. Today's "rumour-mongering" story about a "possible" Liverpool interest in Sam Mc Queen (presently third-choice) may eventually end with a move similar to Chambers, who looked good in "our Saints set-up", but didn't progress further after his Arsenal move. Edited 30 October, 2016 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 30 October, 2016 Share Posted 30 October, 2016 Targett offers quite a lot going forward and puts over a decent cross. Perhaps you haven't watched the many matches when he has done that. Granted that he is not up to Bertrand's standard, but still pretty useful. Will beg to differ. He puts the odd decent cross in when he has time and space (like the one for Long's header last season) but I have never seen him try to beat a man and he is never key to our attacking play like RB is. He is solid on the ball bit, lacks a yard of pace at this level, both in defence and attack. Rarely has a game where he is above 6/10, certainly not at LB in a back four, and he has probably made 20 or so starts by now. He is targetted by the opposition as a weakeness every time he starts in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 30 October, 2016 Share Posted 30 October, 2016 https://www.clubcall.com/liverpool/saints-starlet-on-reds-radar-1829690.html seems to be the current rumour crap blogs etc are going with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's There Posted 3 November, 2016 Share Posted 3 November, 2016 Well impressed with Sam...what a find. And what a few weeks for the young man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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