Armando Broja

[S-Clarke]

18 minutes ago, Weston Saint said:

We had a good look at him last season. Initially he was a surprise package and scored good goals. Defenders got close up to him and he was able to use his strength and pace so spin past them. However his scoring started to dry up and his form dropped.  Was he found out by opposition defenders? Did they stand off him more so he could not surprise them?  Could we have had the best of him in that initial period?

My view is that if we had to pay plus £30M with wages circa £100,000 per week we might be making a big mistake unless the coaches can see a clear way of developing and widening his skills and he has the ability to do so. Big risk IMO. 

I do see where you are coming from, I think for clubs like us spending money in those regions does look a bit scary and is always going to be a huge risk. 

In my honest opinion I'd probably only pay a package of £20m for him with 50k wages tops. (12-15m up front). I'd be comfortable with that as I feel that's where he's proven himself, he still has a lot of development to do and I'd suggest £30m and 100k p/w is what you'd pay for a finished product, or certainly someone a lot more refined. 

He's clearly got some pretty unique attributes. He's powerful, strong, very quick, he's a tidy finisher when he keeps his head. I have no doubts that he's going to be a good player but I would just be uncomfortable paying that much for someone who isn't there quite yet.

[Dellman]

6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I do see where you are coming from, I think for clubs like us spending money in those regions does look a bit scary and is always going to be a huge risk. 

In my honest opinion I'd probably only pay a package of £20m for him with 50k wages tops. (12-15m up front). I'd be comfortable with that as I feel that's where he's proven himself, he still has a lot of development to do and I'd suggest £30m and 100k p/w is what you'd pay for a finished product, or certainly someone a lot more refined. 

He's clearly got some pretty unique attributes. He's powerful, strong, very quick, he's a tidy finisher when he keeps his head. I have no doubts that he's going to be a good player but I would just be uncomfortable paying that much for someone who isn't there quite yet.

His demands and Chelsea's demands will be too much. He has his moments, but not regular or consistent. We can do better and i think we will, the present management team have their heads screwed on

[SW5 SAINT]

One thing that might be in our favour is that most likely Chelsea will want a buy back clause in the contract. Newcastle I would imagine are probably beyond wanting one of their rivals to have a buy back and wham would like to think they are at that level…..!

[revolution saint]

17 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I do see where you are coming from, I think for clubs like us spending money in those regions does look a bit scary and is always going to be a huge risk. 

In my honest opinion I'd probably only pay a package of £20m for him with 50k wages tops. (12-15m up front). I'd be comfortable with that as I feel that's where he's proven himself, he still has a lot of development to do and I'd suggest £30m and 100k p/w is what you'd pay for a finished product, or certainly someone a lot more refined. 

He's clearly got some pretty unique attributes. He's powerful, strong, very quick, he's a tidy finisher when he keeps his head. I have no doubts that he's going to be a good player but I would just be uncomfortable paying that much for someone who isn't there quite yet.

Again though, you take a bigger risk signing a player from another league and hoping he can settle into the premier league and the team.  I'd agree though that for the same level of quality then an overseas player probably represents better value for money but there's more risk.  With Broja you know he can work within the team and you know he can score goals at this level. Over the course of the season it wasn't a great return but it wasn't shabby either and there's lots to suggest he will improve.

End of the day it's all about how much money we actually have, and how much risk we're comfortable with.  We could sign a player for 20M from overseas and he might not settle, he might be too lightweight, too slow for the pace of the premier league - you'd hope the scouting would mitigate those issues but there's no guarantees.  Worst case scenario you've got another Carillo, Boufal, Lemina etc if it doesn't work out.  

[pimpin4rizeal]

14 minutes ago, SW5 SAINT said:

One thing that might be in our favour is that most likely Chelsea will want a buy back clause in the contract. Newcastle I would imagine are probably beyond wanting one of their rivals to have a buy back and wham would like to think they are at that level…..!

Exactly said this myself too in the transfer thread.. the buyback clause seems to be our way of doing things..

West Ham and Newcastle might be able to outbid us on a normal transfer fee, but will they give Chelsea the option to buy him back??

this is where our bid could be more appealing to Chelsea 

[Saint Fan CaM]

14 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Exactly said this myself too in the transfer thread.. the buyback clause seems to be our way of doing things..

West Ham and Newcastle might be able to outbid us on a normal transfer fee, but will they give Chelsea the option to buy him back??

this is where our bid could be more appealing to Chelsea 

I'm not sure Chelsea are as keen on buy-back options as Man City though - I reckon they'll want a straight fee if they decide to sell and Newcastle and Wet Spam will more than likely be the mugs who get drawn in to a silly demand.

[revolution saint]

Apparently the new Chelsea owner is keen on doing player swaps like they do in baseball so Broja could be seen as an interesting bargaining chip.  Same will apply to Colwill as well.  Apparently Todd Boehly tried it with Inter when negotiating about Lukaku but they told him to jog on.

[Chez]

57 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Again though, you take a bigger risk signing a player from another league and hoping he can settle into the premier league and the team.  I'd agree though that for the same level of quality then an overseas player probably represents better value for money but there's more risk.  With Broja you know he can work within the team and you know he can score goals at this level. Over the course of the season it wasn't a great return but it wasn't shabby either and there's lots to suggest he will improve.

End of the day it's all about how much money we actually have, and how much risk we're comfortable with.  We could sign a player for 20M from overseas and he might not settle, he might be too lightweight, too slow for the pace of the premier league - you'd hope the scouting would mitigate those issues but there's no guarantees.  Worst case scenario you've got another Carillo, Boufal, Lemina etc if it doesn't work out.  

good point.

The Daka signing for Leicester might be an interesting comparison. I am pretty sure we will have scouted him, but didn't have anywhere near the funds (£20m) to buy him at the start of the transfer window. He is just the type of player we will have been/are looking at from abroad. Young, pacy, scored goals etc. Yet he didn't make a huge impression last season, all be it that would not be easy as Vardy tended to play on his own up front. He did score about 5 goals though (all be it in a slightly better team than ours) so not a lot less than Broja. I think he will come good, but we've signed a fair few from abroad that have failed, so I'd be all for signing Broja rather than gambling on a £20m guy fro oversees. You can see Broja has `it'. No convinced he wants to play for us though. 

[Badger]

1 hour ago, Dellman said:

His demands and Chelsea's demands will be too much. He has his moments, but not regular or consistent. We can do better and i think we will..

Think you’re probably right on the first point. 
Not sure of who will be considered or prove to be better. I like the look of Kaladjzik, and Sesko (last one only mentioned on here by someone), but no strong links to either in truth. Both would probably cost less than Broja, although Sesko is younger and unproven.

55 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Exactly said this myself too in the transfer thread.. the buyback clause seems to be our way of doing things..

West Ham and Newcastle might be able to outbid us on a normal transfer fee, but will they give Chelsea the option to buy him back??

this is where our bid could be more appealing to Chelsea 

Also wonder if Chelsea would look to sell to a club who with a run of form could be a direct rival for a top four finish. West Ham not that far away potentially with some good signings, Newcastle an unknown but certainly have the funds to buy their way in.

Chelsea would probably prefer their former players making a difference at our end of the table.

Just a thought, although it probably will come down to ££ as ever.

[Chez]

37 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Apparently the new Chelsea owner is keen on doing player swaps like they do in baseball so Broja could be seen as an interesting bargaining chip.  Same will apply to Colwill as well.  Apparently Todd Boehly tried it with Inter when negotiating about Lukaku but they told him to jog on.

so sign Sterling, offer Broja in return? Or sign Ronaldo and offer Colwill in return? Not clear how this is gonna work. Swap deals don't happen often. There was the Sanchez/Mkhitarian deal, but it was incredibly tricky and only the fact the two valuations matched and all parties very happy enabled it to happen.

[Badger]

40 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Apparently the new Chelsea owner is keen on doing player swaps like they do in baseball so Broja could be seen as an interesting bargaining chip.  Same will apply to Colwill as well.  Apparently Todd Boehly tried it with Inter when negotiating about Lukaku but they told him to jog on.

Wonder if he’ll accept a couple from Bednarek, Elynoussi, Djeneppo, and Redmond then ?  

[revolution saint]

3 minutes ago, Chez said:

so sign Sterling, offer Broja in return? Or sign Ronaldo and offer Colwill in return? Not clear how this is gonna work. Swap deals don't happen often. There was the Sanchez/Mkhitarian deal, but it was incredibly tricky and only the fact the two valuations matched and all parties very happy enabled it to happen.

Yeah, it was in an Athletic article - probably the one about the whole Lukaku transfer.  Apparently it's pretty common in baseball but I don't see it working too well over here either.  Would probably work in certain circumstances, for example they want JWP and offer us Broja and Colwill (and before anyone jumps on this, it's an example, not me saying it'll happen, or there's any truth in it).  Generally though I think players and agents don't like these kind of deals. 

[Chez]

20 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Yeah, it was in an Athletic article - probably the one about the whole Lukaku transfer.  Apparently it's pretty common in baseball but I don't see it working too well over here either.  Would probably work in certain circumstances, for example they want JWP and offer us Broja and Colwill (and before anyone jumps on this, it's an example, not me saying it'll happen, or there's any truth in it).  Generally though I think players and agents don't like these kind of deals. 

I watched a video - might have been on youtube - about swap deals in football and the agents explained that they didn't happen often because they were just too complicated. Just getting a single player deal resolved was hard enough. Getting two relied on double the work, both players wanting the move and then neither part falling through due to any number of issues that can pop up. I guess if you are one of the agents/players/clubs, the last thing you want is to have to rely on the other deal also happening for yours to happen. Better to  stick with one deal at a time.

Thus when I see transfer rumours involving swaps, I basically regard them as made up bollocks.

Baseball/NFL etc differs because (most) players can just be traded between teams without them having a say - far less complicated.

Edited 8 July, 2022 by Chez

[Mystic Force]

He would only be worth those sums if Ralph decides to play in a style that suits his attributes,  if he intends to carry on using the tactics of the end of the season there would be no point.

[SuperSAINT]

3 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

The new ownership at Chelsea feels a bit chaotic, not sure if it's just me who feels that.

He’s certainly taken on a lot of work.

The Athletic article on Broja had some good detail in regards meetings that have happened (& another planned) between Borja’s reps and Chelsea in regards to his future.  Also said Colwill is in the same boat.

You'd imagine Chelsea are waiting to start making signings before shipping players out.

Remains to be seen what the new owners plan is regarding their academy lads - play them? Or sell to fund big signings?

[Convict Colony]

18 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

He’s certainly taken on a lot of work.

The Athletic article on Broja had some good detail in regards meetings that have happened (& another planned) between Borja’s reps and Chelsea in regards to his future.  Also said Colwill is in the same boat.

You'd imagine Chelsea are waiting to start making signings before shipping players out.

Remains to be seen what the new owners plan is regarding their academy lads - play them? Or sell to fund big signings?

They have to go for big signings don't they, new owners, want to make a statement etc etc.

Reckon we might be broja with a buy back like Tino and hopefully he is more inclined after seeing the changes and signings we are making we should be a team going places.

Edited 9 July, 2022 by Convict Colony

[nta786]

20 hours ago, Chez said:

I watched a video - might have been on youtube - about swap deals in football and the agents explained that they didn't happen often because they were just too complicated. Just getting a single player deal resolved was hard enough. Getting two relied on double the work, both players wanting the move and then neither part falling through due to any number of issues that can pop up. I guess if you are one of the agents/players/clubs, the last thing you want is to have to rely on the other deal also happening for yours to happen. Better to  stick with one deal at a time.

Thus when I see transfer rumours involving swaps, I basically regard them as made up bollocks.

Baseball/NFL etc differs because (most) players can just be traded between teams without them having a say - far less complicated.

Yep, and then also the issue of how do you value a player in your financial statements in a swap deal

[waylander]

So has he gone on Chelsea's US tour, anyone know?

[revolution saint]

6 minutes ago, waylander said:

So has he gone on Chelsea's US tour, anyone know?

Nah, had a look earlier today and seems like he isn’t going but nothing definitive.

[Chez]

5 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Nah, had a look earlier today and seems like he isn’t going but nothing definitive.

does that basically mean that he is going to be sold?

If they were considering a second loan, would they not take a look at him first?

Maybe his agent has had talks with a club like Newcastle or Everton  and has said he wants to join them and now its' just about the negotiations?

[Saint_lambden]

Just now, Chez said:

does that basically mean that he is going to be sold?

If they were considering a second loan, would they not take a look at him first?

Maybe his agent has had talks with a club like Newcastle or Everton  and has said he wants to join them and now its' just about the negotiations?

It sounds like he's said to Chelsea that he doesn't want another loan - either he stays and gets game time or he's sold. 

I really can't see him coming back here. If he was going to it would have happened by now I think, I'm not sure his relationship with the manager was always the best and we're likely to get outbid by others. 

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, Chez said:

does that basically mean that he is going to be sold?

If they were considering a second loan, would they not take a look at him first?

Maybe his agent has had talks with a club like Newcastle or Everton  and has said he wants to join them and now its' just about the negotiations?

I don't think Chelsea really know what they're doing at the moment, I said the other day that the club just feels a little chaotic. Their new owner desperate to make a point, but he's never done football before and it's kinda showing.

[Chez]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't think Chelsea really know what they're doing at the moment, I said the other day that the club just feels a little chaotic. Their new owner desperate to make a point, but he's never done football before and it's kinda showing.

Tuchel knows what he wants/needs.

[revolution saint]

11 minutes ago, Chez said:

does that basically mean that he is going to be sold?

If they were considering a second loan, would they not take a look at him first?

Maybe his agent has had talks with a club like Newcastle or Everton  and has said he wants to join them and now its' just about the negotiations?

Who knows? My take is that if they really thought he could be an option this season then he’d be on the plane. I reckon they’re ready to cash in and use the money on other preferred targets. Same with Colwill, not clear if he’s on the tour either. Whether we have a chance or not is another matter but I’d say probably a fair chance with Broja. Lots in our favour and the fact that there really hasn’t been that many substantial rumours in probably the most pressing area to address makes me think we’re waiting to see what happens.

[nta786]

I wonder what his salary at Chelsea is and whether it is still an academy salary or a PL salary for fringe players.

It might explain why he wants to leave, Chelsea don't need to offer him a new one if he still has 4 years to go on it

[Sarisbury Saint]

23 hours ago, revolution saint said:

Apparently the new Chelsea owner is keen on doing player swaps like they do in baseball so Broja could be seen as an interesting bargaining chip.  Same will apply to Colwill as well.  Apparently Todd Boehly tried it with Inter when negotiating about Lukaku but they told him to jog on.

Adam Armstrong for Broja it is then.

How much do you think they should pay us to make up the difference in potential ?

[The Kraken]

8 minutes ago, nta786 said:

I wonder what his salary at Chelsea is and whether it is still an academy salary or a PL salary for fringe players.

It might explain why he wants to leave, Chelsea don't need to offer him a new one if he still has 4 years to go on it

Google results suggest he was on £8,500 a week last season.

[Matthew Le God]

9 minutes ago, nta786 said:

I wonder what his salary at Chelsea is and whether it is still an academy salary or a PL salary for fringe players.

It might explain why he wants to leave, Chelsea don't need to offer him a new one if he still has 4 years to go on it

The Chelsea FM researcher who runs @chelseayouth twitter account with 240,000 followers (one of which is Broja himself) believes Broja is on £7.5k p/w

[Chez]

13 minutes ago, nta786 said:

I wonder what his salary at Chelsea is and whether it is still an academy salary or a PL salary for fringe players.

It might explain why he wants to leave, Chelsea don't need to offer him a new one if he still has 4 years to go on it

isn't a Chelsea academy salary similar to our mid range players?

[Matthew Le God]

9 minutes ago, Chez said:

isn't a Chelsea academy salary similar to our mid range players?

No, not even close. Some Saints fans underestimate just how much Saints are paying players. Saints have an annual wage bill of £113m, that isn't from paying mid range players £20k p/w.

Edited 9 July, 2022 by Matthew Le God

[Toadhall Saint]

13 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

No, not even close. Some Saints fans underestimate just how much Saints are paying players. Saints have an annual wage bill of £113m, that isn't from paying mid range players £20k p/w.

Is that just for playing staff or across the whole “company”?

[West Stand]

Six or seven years ago I took my grandson to the Chelsea training ground at Cobbam to see their under 18’s play and at the time one of their forwards was being displayed with the claim he was on £1m a year then!!

[Matthew Le God]

35 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Is that just for playing staff or across the whole “company”?

The £113m is for the entire companies wage bill, player salaries take up the vast majority of it though.

 

Edited 9 July, 2022 by Matthew Le God

[manji]

Broja said a couple of days ago if he isn’t included on the tour he doesn’t want to play for Chelsea again. He’s not happy with them.

[Saint_lambden]

No Broja in the squad, confirmed. 

https://twitter.com/ChelseaFC/status/1545743039192190977?s=20&t=gzJXBVvCjt9akjBjZyQKaw

[revolution saint]

40 minutes ago, Saint_lambden said:

No Broja in the squad, confirmed. 

https://twitter.com/ChelseaFC/status/1545743039192190977?s=20&t=gzJXBVvCjt9akjBjZyQKaw

Pretty obvious he's off then, especially considering Harvey Vale and Anjorin are included who I'd have thought further from the first team than Broja would have been.

[Matthew Le God]

[CamSaint]

2 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Google results suggest he was on £8,500 a week last season.

 

2 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

The Chelsea FM researcher who runs @chelseayouth twitter account with 240,000 followers (one of which is Broja himself) believes Broja is on £7.5k p/w

Is it therefore reasonable to assume that all of our new signings so far this window would be on similar salaries? I have no idea, but if so, the saving on Forster's salary alone has more than comfortably covered all 5, with some to spare! (I guess some of that may be allocated to contract enhancements for Moi & Salisu). And of course, we have savings on Long's & indeed Broja's salary as well. If we also manage to off load a few players, it further reinforces the cracking business approach from SR so far this summer.  Although I've no idea of the numbers involved, they seem to have applied the same principles to the coaching team - 3 coaches out and 2 new ones in along with an internal promotion. Add in the replacement of Glover with Joe Shields and they really seem to have shaken things up big time.

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, CamSaint said:

Is it therefore reasonable to assume that all of our new signings so far this window would be on similar salaries? 

I very much doubt it. That salary for Broja was signed with him in the Chelsea youth teams, where as Bazuna, Lavia and Bella-Kotchap have been signed by Saints to be 1st team players and their wages will likely reflect that and be significantly higher.

[Saint_clark]

8 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

I very much doubt it. That salary for Broja was signed with him in the Chelsea youth teams, where as Bazuna, Lavia and Bella-Kotchap have been signed by Saints to be 1st team players and their wages will likely reflect that and be significantly higher.

Significantly higher is vague, I'd be surprised if they're on more than £25k a week to begin with, probably with clauses included based on appearances for the team or going up by a chunk each season.

[Chez]

21 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Significantly higher is vague, I'd be surprised if they're on more than £25k a week to begin with, probably with clauses included based on appearances for the team or going up by a chunk each season.

Do players acquired with £10m-£15m transfer fees really only get £25k a week? That's only top end championship wages. 

[Chez]

22 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why would Broja not be included in the squad, then join up the following week?

Is that statement basically code for "he ain't coming with us, but we cant be bothered to spend too much time talking about his probable transfer, so if we say he's coming later, it shuts down the questions, for now, even though he's off"?

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Chez said:

Why would Broja not be included in the squad, then join up the following week?

Is that statement basically code for "he ain't coming with us, but we cant be bothered to spend too much time talking about his probable transfer, so if we say he's coming later, it shuts down the questions, for now, even though he's off"?

I'd imagine it's something like that. Look at Ronaldo as another example, missed the first day of pre-season due to 'personal family reasons', but we all know why it was. Low and behold he still isn't there.

Sometimes I wish clubs would just be honest with their fans and stop trying to fluff up stories.

[SaintsLoyal]

West Ham must be favourites i imagine.

[tajjuk]

On 09/07/2022 at 14:13, CamSaint said:

 

Is it therefore reasonable to assume that all of our new signings so far this window would be on similar salaries? I have no idea, but if so, the saving on Forster's salary alone has more than comfortably covered all 5, with some to spare! (I guess some of that may be allocated to contract enhancements for Moi & Salisu). And of course, we have savings on Long's & indeed Broja's salary as well. If we also manage to off load a few players, it further reinforces the cracking business approach from SR so far this summer.  Although I've no idea of the numbers involved, they seem to have applied the same principles to the coaching team - 3 coaches out and 2 new ones in along with an internal promotion. Add in the replacement of Glover with Joe Shields and they really seem to have shaken things up big time.

I'd imagine most of our signings are going to be in the £30k - 40K sort of bracket. Most of them are non-PL players, and mid table Bundesliga, SPL teams, etc. are likely to be paying lower wages than many Championship clubs so I doubt we'd suddenly be paying them £60k a week, that is more an established PL player level of wage. 

Forster was on a high wage IIRC, was I think our highest earner at one point, and Long probably was on £60k or so I would guess, so probably about £130-140k a week saved between those two. The 4 main ones we have signed (doubt the Lis guy is on very much), might amount to a similar amount overall. 

 

[Fabrice29]

Intrigued to know why the continued speculation about this guy signing by the way? Has there been a change of mind since Broja said he's clear goodbye message and Saints briefed everyone they had said thank you and moved on? 

[Toadhall Saint]

31 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Intrigued to know why the continued speculation about this guy signing by the way? Has there been a change of mind since Broja said he's clear goodbye message and Saints briefed everyone they had said thank you and moved on? 

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

Flying out to join Chelsea in the States, now, according to the Saints' Athletic reporter.

[tajjuk]

Personally I think it's all agent/paper talk, I reckon the club thinks there is better value to be had at the prices being quoted for him. (plus I wonder if there are also some other doubts about him having seen him first hand and pretty much knowing all there is to know). I just reckon if the club were really convinced about his talent/attitude and supposedly have a decent amount of funds to buy a striker they would have moved on him earlier. 

[DT]

Really can't see him coming to us