cUnacceptable inconsistency and appalling standard of referees

[kitch]

15 minutes ago, West Stand said:

I was beginning to think I was alone in similar thoughts about the ref, he was diabolical and inconsistent.

Nope, he had a 'mare last night. 

Although a Leicester fan might argue otherwise.

[Dark Munster]

I'm sure this was mentioned in the Brighton game thread, but the ref yesterday was beyond incompetent. Not just the Brighton players he didn't book for dirty fouls, but even worse were the yellows for Mo E's perfectly good tackle, and Salisu for holding the ball for a second and then lobbing it back to the area of the free kick. And that will result in a f**king suspension. Being a yellow, no appeals allowed of course.

[Whitey Grandad]

9 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

I'm sure this was mentioned in the Brighton game thread, but the ref yesterday was beyond incompetent. Not just the Brighton players he didn't book for dirty fouls, but even worse were the yellows for Mo E's perfectly good tackle, and Salisu for holding the ball for a second and then lobbing it back to the area of the free kick. And that will result in a f**king suspension. Being a yellow, no appeals allowed of course.

That may have been for dissent.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

It was a shocking display. The rational part of me wants to believe that it all evens out over the season but it does very much seem like we are getting a raw deal this season, game after game

[davefizzy14]

Both home games this week we've witnessed poor refereeing performances. When Moi gets booked for winning the ball cleanly and then Brighton players are getting away with persistent fouling, its a complete joke! 

[miserableoldgit]

I did post this in the match thread....perhaps here would have been better:- "How do you explain this? Saints player fouled in centre of pitch and stays down. Ref allows play to continue with Brighton attacking....they could have scored. Ball eventually gets to Saints goalkeepers hands. Ref then turns round goes back, and books the Brighton player! If he's booked him I assume it was a foul, so why no free kick to Saints originally? Am I missing something?? Other than us having yet another useless ref??"

[Kenilworthy]

What hasn't been mentioned is how good the Australian referee Jarred Gillett was on Saturday. It was a joy to have a game refereed according to the actual rules, rather than how a self important english ref feels they must be applied to the advantage of certain clubs. I doubt that any of the usual offenders would have had the temerity to show an Arsenal player a yellow card as early as the 3rd minute.

[Saint Garrett]

The best refereeing performance I can remember in ages, barely noticed him. Let the game flow. More of that please. 

[ErwinK1961]

19 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

The best refereeing performance I can remember in ages, barely noticed him. Let the game flow. More of that please. 

Spot on.

[sfc4prem]

Valery sent off but Toney stays on. Really it should be both staying on the pitch. Inconsistency.

[Yozzman]

12 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

The best refereeing performance I can remember in ages, barely noticed him. Let the game flow. More of that please. 

I agree that he let the game flow but it would be a different story if Toney had scored an equaliser. A degree of consistency across refs would be nice.

[warsash saint]

First time i have heard 'you're not fit to referee' sung by the opposition at St Mary's for a long time!

[sadoldgit]

18 hours ago, sfc4prem said:

Valery sent off but Toney stays on. Really it should be both staying on the pitch. Inconsistency.

Different circumstances. Valery prevented a player going through on goal which is pretty much a nailed on yellow if not a red.

[AlexLaw76]

Another shit show last night. 

Obvious bias towards Spurs. They seem to get all the little decisions. And of course, the obvious handball and the foul on Broja 

 

[Toussaint]

I don’t think the penalty was much, would have been annoyed if it was against us. It would have been a pen last season but not this. I think he was just incompetent, started off not allowing any physical contact and then saw nothing wrong with the GBH assault on Borja which lead to a goal! 

[SaintBobby]

The foul on Broja was a weird one. The ref should spot it and give it, but it seemed strange to me that it was ruled beyond the scope of VAR. Is there a clear rule about what constitutes a “passage of play” for VAR?

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

1 hour ago, SaintBobby said:

The foul on Broja was a weird one. The ref should spot it and give it, but it seemed strange to me that it was ruled beyond the scope of VAR. Is there a clear rule about what constitutes a “passage of play” for VAR?

Also seems like the ref ignored the prospect of it being a head injury, he follows play and looks back over his shoulder to see Broja still on the ground holding his head. Thought the rules, because of player safety, are to stop the game and allow treatment in that situation?

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Another shit show last night. 

Obvious bias towards Spurs. They seem to get all the little decisions. And of course, the obvious handball and the foul on Broja 

 

I thought that, although he got two big decisions wrong with the foul on Broja and penalty (what is and isn't handball these days) that is what VAR is there for so joint blame on that. It was all the little decisions he gave Spurs way, a few times throw ins, free kicks etc he gave to them or lots of them. 

[angelman]

I'm no referee, but the passage of play that led up to their 2nd goal starte, IMO, when they won the ball - which was the foul on Broja. I read some other fan forums, and KUMB were saying that they had a goal chalked off recently that went back far longer than this one. So it seems pretty inconsistent about what constitutes passage of play and how long this can go back in time. 

I think we can all agree on the foul, and that prob it should have been treated as a head injury. I thought Ralph was magnanimous in his interview saying that it ultimately didn't count against us. 

 

EDIT - forgot about the penalty claim. It seems the referral to, or interjection by, VAR is somewhat at the whim of whoever is at Stockley Park. 

Edited 10 February, 2022 by angelman

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan said:

Also seems like the ref ignored the prospect of it being a head injury, he follows play and looks back over his shoulder to see Broja still on the ground holding his head. Thought the rules, because of player safety, are to stop the game and allow treatment in that situation?

yep, games should have been stopped on two counts, a clear foul, absolutely went through the back of Broja, two hands on his neck, Salisu was penalised a few minutes earlier for a slight nudge no where near as obvious, then for the head injury. 

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, angelman said:

I'm no referee, but the passage of play that led up to their 2nd goal starte, IMO, when they won the ball - which was the foul on Broja. I read some other fan forums, and KUMB were saying that they had a goal chalked off recently that went back far longer than this one. So it seems pretty inconsistent about what constitutes passage of play and how long this can go back in time. 

I think we can all agree on the foul, and that prob it should have been treated as a head injury. I thought Ralph was magnanimous in his interview saying that it ultimately didn't count against us. 

 

EDIT - forgot about the penalty claim. It seems the referral to, or interjection by, VAR is somewhat at the whim of whoever is at Stockley Park. 

The 'same passage of play' is one of those waffle rules that leads to no consistency what so ever. How can a foul that happens 10 seconds prior to the goal not be part of the 'attacking passage' of play? 

Edited 10 February, 2022 by S-Clarke

[saintwbu]

Chelsea had that goal ruled out against us where Azpilicueta fouled KWP early in the build up. It had everyone up in arms that it was too early in the phase of play to matter, but it was much further back than last night. To me, if the player wins the ball illegally, and that directly starts the attack that ends in a goal, I don’t see how it can be too early. That goal last night was about 3 passes on from the foul?

[ErwinK1961]

12 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

Chelsea had that goal ruled out against us where Azpilicueta fouled KWP early in the build up. It had everyone up in arms that it was too early in the phase of play to matter, but it was much further back than last night. To me, if the player wins the ball illegally, and that directly starts the attack that ends in a goal, I don’t see how it can be too early. That goal last night was about 3 passes on from the foul?

It's just complete bullshit, still 'open to interpretation' and still gives referee's the ability to be as inconsistent as they see fit.

[Sheaf Saint]

IMO, if no opposition player touches the ball between the foul and the goal then it is still the same phase of play.

It should be as black and white as that really, not down to the ref's judgement of how long before the goal the foul was.

[Sheaf Saint]

BTW - mods can you please correct the typo in this thread title? It's really not good for my OCD!

[Kingsland Codger]

Does last night’s decision by the referee now allow every player to have one free forearm-smash to the neck of an opponent? 😉

[SaintBobby]

The head injury rule also seems a bit vague to me and risks players going down and holding their heads for tactical reasons.

Obviously, if a player would clearly benefit from immediate and urgent medical attention then the ref should stop the game, but that doesn’t apply just to the head.

I think the game is stopped too regularly. Broja was fouled for sure, but whether his injury was sufficient to stop the game if it was identical but not a foul, I’m less persuaded of.

[tajjuk]

Not sure Ref's can be taking that risk, ok if a player goes down clutching his head after getting a tap in the knee it might be a different thing but clearly the Ref saw the type of challenge it was and that likely meant a head injury was possible.

I mean what is he going to do if Broja gets stretchered off or has concussion? Thankfully he didn't but the Ref didn't know that in that split second, his assistants and the 4th also had good views and should have alerted him. It's a very clear foul anyway, you can't challenge for the ball like that leading with your forearm anyway, so it was poor on multiple counts. He should have given the foul, should have stopped it for a head injury and VAR should have ruled it off because clearly it was part of the play that led to the goal, some of our players literally stopped (which they shouldn't but it's a human reaction if one of your mates gets smashed in the head) and it was only about 4 passes that resulted in the goal. 

Very very poor all round, just lucky it didn't cost us and Conte's reaction was poor IMO, I like him as a manager but lost a little respect for him, he knew that was a foul and they 'won' a cheap goal but got all angry because our coaching staff were understandably upset. I mean they are celebrating a goal whilst Broja is down getting treatment, poor sportsmanship from Spurs all round IMO. 

Edited 10 February, 2022 by tajjuk

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Kingsland Codger said:

Does last night’s decision by the referee now allow every player to have one free forearm-smash to the neck of an opponent? 😉

Subsection 2, paragraph 1 section i)

i) A player from a glamour club is allowed at least 1 unpunished physical assault on an opposing player from a team way down the food chain to either

a) Prevent said team from scoring

b) To gain an advantage to score yourself

 

There are several further subsections that cover penalties, sendings off VAR and so on.

[BERMUDASAINT]

f**king cheats, cheats, cheats. You all know my position on PL refs, they are corrupt officials,  controlling the league keeping the big clubs at the top of the table, so the PL brand stays strong. For a multi billion dollar product they need the control. I understand that a league with Saints, Brighton,  Leicester, Brentford occupying the top spots will knock a few billions of their TV rights, thus they feel justified to protect the PL BRAND.

Speaking of threats to the PL brand, the Super league was a huge threat to the PL BRAND, and would need to be dealt with........ conspiracy warning... the glazers were one of the main instigators in leaving the PL, would the PL be trying to punish MU? I know they are crap atm, so alot of pressure on their owners, and I see they are not getting those Ferguson calls they used to get? Why not? Why would they not favor one of the biggest teams in the world, huge viewing audience for their precious PL BRAND. Seems to go against a life time of them being favored on the pitch? Put pressure on a weak team, get fans on the glazers back and possible squeeze out those Yanks and their big idea of a super league and hurting the PL BILLION DOLLAR BRAND. 

[farawaysaint]

I don't know, referee is a thankless job. Yes big teams get more decisions going that way but I believe that it is an unconscious bias (we are all human) rather than a far reaching conspiracy to keep us from winning. 

 

[beatlesaint]

The assault on Broja was disgraceful. But VAR, what can you say? Sometimes we go back so far looking for a reason to chalk off a goal we are back at the kick off, the next minute we barely look beyond the guy tapping the ball in the net.  

Fortunately on this occasion it didnt matter.... 

[jamesfp1]

If the ref had given the foul on Broja we wouldnt have won 3-2. Something to do with chaos theory or butterfly effect or something.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, jamesfp1 said:

If the ref had given the foul on Broja we wouldnt have won 3-2. Something to do with chaos theory or butterfly effect or something.

No, but they wouldn’t have scored their second goal.

[Dman]

2 hours ago, BERMUDASAINT said:

f**king cheats, cheats, cheats. You all know my position on PL refs, they are corrupt officials,  controlling the league keeping the big clubs at the top of the table, so the PL brand stays strong. For a multi billion dollar product they need the control. I understand that a league with Saints, Brighton,  Leicester, Brentford occupying the top spots will knock a few billions of their TV rights, thus they feel justified to protect the PL BRAND.

Speaking of threats to the PL brand, the Super league was a huge threat to the PL BRAND, and would need to be dealt with........ conspiracy warning... the glazers were one of the main instigators in leaving the PL, would the PL be trying to punish MU? I know they are crap atm, so alot of pressure on their owners, and I see they are not getting those Ferguson calls they used to get? Why not? Why would they not favor one of the biggest teams in the world, huge viewing audience for their precious PL BRAND. Seems to go against a life time of them being favored on the pitch? Put pressure on a weak team, get fans on the glazers back and possible squeeze out those Yanks and their big idea of a super league and hurting the PL BILLION DOLLAR BRAND. 

What a load of drivel, as per from you. 

[BERMUDASAINT]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

What a load of drivel, as per from you. 

Please don't follow me around , u Hitler loving antagonist.  I will never forget your vile post when discussing the "take the knee" topic. 

My drivel is refs cheat, some are mistakes, but so many blantant wrong decisions brings me to the logical conclusion.....it is cheating,  if you are bias as a ref, you should excuse yourself from that game. This whole thread is about us highlighting what a cheat they are.

My Manu "drivel" was a crazy idea, let's see if it comes true, stranger things have happened. Like you changing your name and thinking your stink won't follow you around.  

 

 

[Dman]

49 minutes ago, BERMUDASAINT said:

Please don't follow me around , u Hitler loving antagonist.  I will never forget your vile post when discussing the "take the knee" topic. 

My drivel is refs cheat, some are mistakes, but so many blantant wrong decisions brings me to the logical conclusion.....it is cheating,  if you are bias as a ref, you should excuse yourself from that game. This whole thread is about us highlighting what a cheat they are.

My Manu "drivel" was a crazy idea, let's see if it comes true, stranger things have happened. Like you changing your name and thinking your stink won't follow you around.  

 

 

Even more drivel. Somehow even stranger and more absolute bollox than the original post. 

To put your absolutely nonsense theory to bed. What you’re saying is that there are currently 22 premier league referee’s plus probably double that in linesman and every single one of them is in on this big conspiracy to cheat everyone other than 4 or 5 clubs, despite getting 0 benefit from it personally. 
 

You’re talking absolute shite. 

Edited 10 February, 2022 by Dman

[badgerx16]

Maybe look at it this way; the challenge on Broja, poor officiating thereof, and subsequent second Spurs goal led to Saints responding to an injustice by taking control of the game and scoring two quick goals to rectify the wrong in a manner the referee couldn't interfere with.

[paulwantsapint]

You injure a saint & upset JWP

JWP enters hulk mode, you won’t like Hulk mode unless you support saints

[tajjuk]

19 hours ago, farawaysaint said:

I don't know, referee is a thankless job. Yes big teams get more decisions going that way but I believe that it is an unconscious bias (we are all human) rather than a far reaching conspiracy to keep us from winning. 

 

I'd agree generally its an unconscious bias coupled with general incompetence. Particularly at big teams at home with big crowds, if 50, 60, 70k people boo every decision you give against their team its bound to have an effect, though refs should be stronger and our current lot are just bad. I'd like to see more accountability for their errors to be honest and more statistics around refs, I think that would have an impact on them keeping their objectivity more. 

Though I do also think there are a few refs who do favour certain teams or are against certain teams. We have been on the end of far too many a controversial Mike Dean decision for it to be coincidence IMO, he even influences it when in the VAR, to the point that the club even noticed. 

Then you add in the 'refs club' VAR where they do not want to embarrass their colleagues, so often don't overturn clear errors. 

Edited 11 February, 2022 by tajjuk

[Teddeer]

Sticking with the VAR theme is it time to bin the ridiculous calling the ref to take a second look on the pitch-side monitor? We all know the result, the ref never sticks with his original decision so just tell him he's wrong, let him change his mind and get on with the game rather than delaying things whilst this charade is played out.

[miserableoldgit]

On 10/02/2022 at 11:15, SaintBobby said:

The head injury rule also seems a bit vague to me and risks players going down and holding their heads for tactical reasons.

Obviously, if a player would clearly benefit from immediate and urgent medical attention then the ref should stop the game, but that doesn’t apply just to the head.

I think the game is stopped too regularly. Broja was fouled for sure, but whether his injury was sufficient to stop the game if it was identical but not a foul, I’m less persuaded of.

Stop the game and give a free kick then??

Edited 11 February, 2022 by miserableoldgit