We're really only 1 point below par

[Le Timmier]

After 8 games we really only have 1 point less than could have been reasonably expected:  

EVE - points 0 - expected points 0

MNU - points 1 - expected points 0

NEW - points 1 - expected points 1

WHU - points 1 - expected points 1

MNC - points 1 - expected points 0

WOL - points 0 - expected points 3

CHE - points 0 - expected points 0

LEE - points 3 - expected points 3

TOTAL POINTS 7 vs EXPECTED POINTS 8

Yes - Wolves was a *stinker, but in amongst the rest of that lot there have been some decent performances. Some of our direct competitors will get annihilated at the Etihad and at the Bridge. 

A couple more winnable games on the horizon! Plenty to be positive about! Enjoy a beer or 5 tonight! COYR.

 

*the result not necessarily the performance 

Edited 16 October, 2021 by Le Timmier
added clarification RE: 'stinker'

[AlexLaw76]

expected by who?

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

expected by who?

I don't think his expected points are unreasonable. Look pretty sensible to me.

[nta786]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

expected by who?

From a Saints fan perspective?

A neutral 3rd party might argue that we could have targeted 3 points against a pre-takeover Newcastle side but given how historically shit we do most of the time, I would have settled for a point there. 

The Wolves game was the only game which I was hoping more from prior to the game.

[Teddeer]

12 minutes ago, nta786 said:

From a Saints fan perspective?

A neutral 3rd party might argue that we could have targeted 3 points against a pre-takeover Newcastle side but given how historically shit we do most of the time, I would have settled for a point there. 

The Wolves game was the only game which I was hoping more from prior to the game.

I tend to agree. Also, Leeds did the double over us last season so 3 points today (irrespective of their weakened line up) is a bonus.

[tajjuk]

Wolves wasn't a stinker IMO, we were the better team by far, we huffed and puffed a bit yes, but dominated the game just couldn't score the goal and they basically created one moment of individual brilliance. 

To be honest aside one half against Everton I don't think we have played poorly at all this season, most performances have been decent to very good. 

We were the better team against Utd, held our own against Chelsea until the sending off (which could have easily been a yellow without Mike Dean sticking his incompetent nose in), were robbed of a win against City thanks to again some horrifically incompetent VAR reffing, were the better team against a good West Ham team just couldn't find the goal, and easily deserved something against Newcastle, where traditionally we do poorly.

If you also consider we've gone away to Everton (poor record there), away to Newcastle (poor record there), and have played Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea (plus a West Ham team who finished top 6) from our first 8 I think results wise it has gone decently and performances have been decent.

We have still play the likes of Burnley, Palace, Watford, Norwich, Newcastle at home etc.  SO I think we should be ok. 

[Baird of the land]

Not sure I agree with particulars of expected points exactly.

However the broad point that we are more or less par I would agree with.

[Sheaf Saint]

9 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Wolves wasn't a stinker IMO, we were the better team by far, we huffed and puffed a bit yes, but dominated the game just couldn't score the goal and they basically created one moment of individual brilliance. 

To be honest aside one half against Everton I don't think we have played poorly at all this season, most performances have been decent to very good. 

We were the better team against Utd, held our own against Chelsea until the sending off (which could have easily been a yellow without Mike Dean sticking his incompetent nose in), were robbed of a win against City thanks to again some horrifically incompetent VAR reffing, were the better team against a good West Ham team just couldn't find the goal, and easily deserved something against Newcastle, where traditionally we do poorly.

If you also consider we've gone away to Everton (poor record there), away to Newcastle (poor record there), and have played Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea (plus a West Ham team who finished top 6) from our first 8 I think results wise it has gone decently and performances have been decent.

We have still play the likes of Burnley, Palace, Watford, Norwich, Newcastle at home etc.  SO I think we should be ok. 

Agree with all of this. Wolves was really the only truly disappointing result, especially as we were the better team over the 90 minutes as well.

Aside from that, we've actually over-achieved against reasonable expectation and given a good account of ourselves in every game except for that second half at Everton.

When you compare our performances to some of the utter shitshows we served up last season, you can see we are functioning much better as a team now.

Just need to get the wins against the teams below us in our next few games now, and we will be looking in a much better position.

[Le Timmier]

52 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Wolves wasn't a stinker IMO, we were the better team by far, we huffed and puffed a bit yes, but dominated the game just couldn't score the goal and they basically created one moment of individual brilliance. 

To be honest aside one half against Everton I don't think we have played poorly at all this season, most performances have been decent to very good. 

We were the better team against Utd, held our own against Chelsea until the sending off (which could have easily been a yellow without Mike Dean sticking his incompetent nose in), were robbed of a win against City thanks to again some horrifically incompetent VAR reffing, were the better team against a good West Ham team just couldn't find the goal, and easily deserved something against Newcastle, where traditionally we do poorly.

If you also consider we've gone away to Everton (poor record there), away to Newcastle (poor record there), and have played Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea (plus a West Ham team who finished top 6) from our first 8 I think results wise it has gone decently and performances have been decent.

We have still play the likes of Burnley, Palace, Watford, Norwich, Newcastle at home etc.  SO I think we should be ok. 

Yep - agree with all of this too. I wasn't clear that meant that the Wolves result was a stinker, rather than the performance.

[Manuel]

57 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Wolves wasn't a stinker IMO, we were the better team by far, we huffed and puffed a bit yes, but dominated the game just couldn't score the goal and they basically created one moment of individual brilliance. 

Agree, although in my opinion, Diallo and Broja were the difference between that Wolves performance and today.  Both an improvement in those positions.  

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

expected by who?

Every silver lining has a cloud eh Delldays?

[woodsaint1]

Not sure what this expected points is all about but we're 5 points better off when compared with the same fixtures last season which is good enough for me

[Le Timmier]

3 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Not sure what this expected points is all about but we're 5 points better off when compared with the same fixtures last season which is good enough for me

Amen.

Not trying to be "scientific" (not talking about anything like XG or any of that sort of stuff!) Just thinking what most 'reasonable' Saints fans might(?) have expected from each game

[Dark Munster]

4 hours ago, woodsaint1 said:

Not sure what this expected points is all about but we're 5 points better off when compared with the same fixtures last season which is good enough for me

I thought is was 6 points better off, but maybe I'm miscounting. Didn't we lose all the corresponding fixtures last season, except Chelsea away where we got a draw?

[tajjuk]

15 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Agree with all of this. Wolves was really the only truly disappointing result, especially as we were the better team over the 90 minutes as well.

Aside from that, we've actually over-achieved against reasonable expectation and given a good account of ourselves in every game except for that second half at Everton.

When you compare our performances to some of the utter shitshows we served up last season, you can see we are functioning much better as a team now.

Just need to get the wins against the teams below us in our next few games now, and we will be looking in a much better position.

We definitely look better defensively, 3 clean sheets already, no idea how many we got last year but can't have been that many. 

And only 10 goals conceded from 8 games, which 8 teams in the league have conceded more and is the same as 4 other teams, plus many of those have played a game less. 

Just need to sort out the goals, though I think yesterday we looked better in the final third, not enough of the quality kind of passes that Djalo did to put Redmond through, our composure and decisions making in the final third has been the main issue IMO. Should also be helped by Stu Armstrong being fit again. 

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

17 hours ago, Le Timmier said:

 

EVE - points 0 - Last year 0 pts. (=)

MNU - points 1 - Last year 0 pts (+1)

NEW - points 1 - Last year 0 pts (+1)

WHU - points 1 - Last year 0 pts (+1)

MNC - points 1 - Last year 0 pts (+1)

WOL - points 0 - Last year 0 pts (=)

CHE - points 0 - Last year 1pt (-1)

LEE - points 3 - Last year 0 pts (+3)

Edited to look at it in a more positive and accurate way. 

Based on the same fixtures last season we're already 6 points better off this term. 

Edited 17 October, 2021 by Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd

[Lord Duckhunter]

What a load of old pony. Particularly benchmarking this season against last.
 

Based on our  performances, and the opposition’s performances I’d say we’re probably a couple of points shy of where we should be. That’s always going to be the case because without a decent striker we’ll struggle to get goals. We need to play well to win, which isn’t a great situation to be in. 

[AlexLaw76]

19 hours ago, Le Timmier said:

After 8 games we really only have 1 point less than could have been reasonably expected:  

EVE - points 0 - expected points 0

MNU - points 1 - expected points 0

NEW - points 1 - expected points 1

WHU - points 1 - expected points 1

MNC - points 1 - expected points 0

WOL - points 0 - expected points 3

CHE - points 0 - expected points 0

LEE - points 3 - expected points 3

TOTAL POINTS 7 vs EXPECTED POINTS 8

Yes - Wolves was a *stinker, but in amongst the rest of that lot there have been some decent performances. Some of our direct competitors will get annihilated at the Etihad and at the Bridge. 

A couple more winnable games on the horizon! Plenty to be positive about! Enjoy a beer or 5 tonight! COYR.

 

*the result not necessarily the performance 

why were we expected to get 3 points at home to Wolves but only 1 against West Ham?

Why do you believe we expected to get 3 at home to Leeds?

 

Have you just made this all up to tell us you think we are doing the least as expected?

[Chapel End]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a load of old pony. Particularly benchmarking this season against last.
 

Based on our  performances, and the opposition’s performances I’d say we’re probably a couple of points shy of where we should be. That’s always going to be the case because without a decent striker we’ll struggle to get goals. We need to play well to win, which isn’t a great situation to be in. 

" We need to play well to win"

Well! no shit sherlock 

 

[Chapel End]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

why were we expected to get 3 points at home to Wolves but only 1 against West Ham?

Why do you believe we expected to get 3 at home to Leeds?

 

Have you just made this all up to tell us you think we are doing the least as expected?

Its an opinion 🙄

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

"one point below par"

All this tells me is we are one point below a bottom 5/6 performance overall based on your expected points?

[Lord Duckhunter]

13 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

" We need to play well to win"

Well! no shit sherlock 

 

Teams win when they don’t play particularly well. I thought a student of the game like yourself would have known that. I obviously had you down as more knowledgeable than you are, sorry. 

[skintsaint]

21 points Short of what I expect 

[Le Timmier]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

why were we expected to get 3 points at home to Wolves but only 1 against West Ham?

Why do you believe we expected to get 3 at home to Leeds?

Have you just made this all up to tell us you think we are doing the least as expected?

Because a West Ham side that finished 6th last season and started brightly this season, scoring 10 goals in their 3 matches prior to the Saints game, (including smashing Leicester 4-1) would seem a tougher proposition than a post-Nuno Wolves that had lost 4 of their first 5 league games.

Because Leeds have struggled so far this season, have a bunch of injuries and were missing 3 of their key players in Phillips, Raphinha & Bamford. 

Do we 'make up' our opinions? I guess we do in a way. I'm just taking a positive view on our season so far and looking on the bright side. If you'd prefer not to, or look at it in different way, then no worries, I'm certainly not going to argue with you about it. 

 

[TWar]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

why were we expected to get 3 points at home to Wolves but only 1 against West Ham?

Why do you believe we expected to get 3 at home to Leeds?

 

Have you just made this all up to tell us you think we are doing the least as expected?

West Ham finished 6th last season and are considerably better than Wolves.

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

why were we expected to get 3 points at home to Wolves but only 1 against West Ham?

I guess he picked that because West Ham were 20 points above Wolves last season...

Edited 17 October, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Chapel End]

1 hour ago, adriansfc said:

Wolves is the only dire result as they were poor that day too. WH and Utd could and should have won both. But I think the season is being judged (understandably) by 2021 overall. So few wins and such poor performance for so long, of course it's worrying not to win early on. 

I've no idea if we've improved and will go on to beat Burnley and Watford, or if we're actually as bad as 2021 suggests and we just got lucky against a massively weakened Leeds side. There's no doubt CB looks better with Salisu a permanent fixture and Vestergaard gone, CM is mostly fine, full backs look good. So we're far from a terrible side, just a work in progress and quite unbalanced at times. We don't see like one of those sides about to burst into life and win 4-0. 

A lot of what you say is true but to say we got lucky against Leeds is nonsense

[Manuel]

Wolves aside, I think we're better than the table position suggests, even without Ings.  We have decent depth too now, in most areas.  If Broja continues to come good I think we'll be ok this season.  Maybe he'll even hang around for another season if he still won't make Chelsea's starting 11. 

[ErwinK1961]

4 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

why were we expected to get 3 points at home to Wolves but only 1 against West Ham?

Why do you believe we expected to get 3 at home to Leeds?

 

Have you just made this all up to tell us you think we are doing the least as expected?

Considering how shit you think we are/the manager is, we must already be 7 points better off than you thought?

[Dark Munster]

4 hours ago, skintsaint said:

21 points Short of what I expect 

You were expecting 28 points from our first 8 matches? I admire your optimism.

[woodsaint1]

18 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

I thought is was 6 points better off, but maybe I'm miscounting. Didn't we lose all the corresponding fixtures last season, except Chelsea away where we got a draw?

We drew against West Ham at home last season too

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, woodsaint1 said:

We drew against West Ham at home last season too

Cheers, forgot about that.

[SaintTex]

also, a positive, if you are looking for them -  through 8 matches,  6 of our opponents are in the Top 10, 2 are in the Bottom 10.

Have had the 2nd most difficult fixture schedule in the League after 8 matches.

https://footylabs.com/premierleague-fantasy/schedule-difficulty.html

We will have an easier go of it in the 2nd quarter of the season.

[skintsaint]

9 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

You were expecting 28 points from our first 8 matches? I admire your optimism.

Whoops I can't do the math....😅

[Toussaint]

2 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Whoops I can't do the math....😅

It’s not unreasonable to expect Ralph to exceed the three points a game mark. Just settling for maximum points shows a lack of ambition. 

[rooney]

We can go up the table tonight if Palace lose by more than 2 goals against Arsenal.

[david in sweden]

On 16/10/2021 at 21:23, Le Timmier said:

Amen.

Not trying to be "scientific" (not talking about anything like XG or any of that sort of stuff!) Just thinking what most 'reasonable' Saints fans might(?) have expected from each game

 

It depends who you are referring to when you write about " reasonable " fans ?   

As a fan for over 60 years .... IMHO ....ANY season we get a " half-reasonable " start, and aren't in the bottom three by this time ...is a good start.

Looking back at the 27 seasons we had in the top tier (prior to 2005) we often started abysmally and rarely finished in the top half, and frequently

went into the final month of the season hoping for a last match / miracle finish ....before surviving on the last day.  

Given the opponents we had at the start of this season, I'd say we've done relatively well (Newcastle and Wolves should have been better) but 

any points gained v. United and City are unexpected and very welcome, and to be fair we still looked good  at 1-1  v. Chelsea before JWP's  red card.

 

Our defence has improved from recent seasons, and with only  10 goals conceded,  we have one of  the best  defences in the bottom half.  

Clearly our problem remains the lack of goals, and even with Danny Ings in the team, the rest of the squad contributed very little in comparison.

We lack players with the flair of a  Beattie, Lambert or Pelle.  It's far too early to suggest we might sign  Broja permanently, but someone of his ilk

is needed to lead the line  if are to get wins and move up the table,  and we have certainly missed the influence of Stuart Armstrong this season.

 

" Fans " who constantly criticise performances and individuals need a reality check about money, as at least a dozen  Prem. clubs regularly

struggle with their finances and SUCCESS can be categorised as ... remaining amongst the top 20 side in the country .....for yet another season. 

Those who are constantly unhappy with our ongoing situation are welcome to travel  east or west on the  M27  as an alternative. 

[once_bitterne]

We've played 8 PL games and won 1 boys!  Open top bus parade?

[Matthew Le God]

16 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

We've played 8 PL games and won 1 boys!  Open top bus parade?

How many points would you have been happy with from those 8 games?

[eurosaint]

On 18/10/2021 at 09:33, david in sweden said:

 

It depends who you are referring to when you write about " reasonable " fans ?   

As a fan for over 60 years .... IMHO ....ANY season we get a " half-reasonable " start, and aren't in the bottom three by this time ...is a good start.

Looking back at the 27 seasons we had in the top tier (prior to 2005) we often started abysmally and rarely finished in the top half, and frequently

went into the final month of the season hoping for a last match / miracle finish ....before surviving on the last day.  

Given the opponents we had at the start of this season, I'd say we've done relatively well (Newcastle and Wolves should have been better) but 

any points gained v. United and City are unexpected and very welcome, and to be fair we still looked good  at 1-1  v. Chelsea before JWP's  red card.

 

Our defence has improved from recent seasons, and with only  10 goals conceded,  we have one of  the best  defences in the bottom half.  

Clearly our problem remains the lack of goals, and even with Danny Ings in the team, the rest of the squad contributed very little in comparison.

We lack players with the flair of a  Beattie, Lambert or Pelle.  It's far too early to suggest we might sign  Broja permanently, but someone of his ilk

is needed to lead the line  if are to get wins and move up the table,  and we have certainly missed the influence of Stuart Armstrong this season.

 

" Fans " who constantly criticise performances and individuals need a reality check about money, as at least a dozen  Prem. clubs regularly

struggle with their finances and SUCCESS can be categorised as ... remaining amongst the top 20 side in the country .....for yet another season. 

Those who are constantly unhappy with our ongoing situation are welcome to travel  east or west on the  M27  as an alternative. 

A rational, sensible post !

It's why I get annoyed when posters on here call for the manager's head every time we don't get a result....

It's pretty well guaranteed that we'll lose more than we win so a realistic expectation is not unreasonable and in my view does not express a lack of ambition, it's where we are in the world today, nothing more, nothing less....

[once_bitterne]

On 20/10/2021 at 14:15, Matthew Le God said:

How many points would you have been happy with from those 8 games?

You've really bought into the club's 17th position = success mantra haven't you.  It wasn't that long ago we were pushing for Europe but now one win from 8 is a decent start.....

[Matthew Le God]

5 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

You've really bought into the club's 17th position = success mantra haven't you.  It wasn't that long ago we were pushing for Europe but now one win from 8 is a decent start.....

I have done no such thing. All I did was ask a question... which you didn't answer!