Cost of Living

[whelk]

Does anyone actually not agree with a windfall tax on the big oil companies?  They have claimed they have more money than they know what to do with so the Johnson line that it will stifle green investment doesn’t hold and actually been countered by BP CEO.

oh and btw trying to blame the Bank of England for staff working at home (by Daily Mail) - this obsession is beyond comical  - do they also think market traders need to fly from London to New York to shake on deals?

 

 

[AlexLaw76]

25% green levy? (Is that right?) on our fuel bills.

 

bin it right now

[Weston Super Saint]

My concern is that a windfall tax on the oil and gas companies will only achieve them putting their prices up to protect their profits.  Ultimately this will benefit the tax man even more - as taxes are a percentage of the selling price - and hit the consumer even harder.

[buctootim]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

25% green levy? (Is that right?) on our fuel bills.

 

bin it right now

No its not. As you should expect from many Tory MP's it is a highly misleading figure. If you took away the levies bills would actually rise

1. The notional 25% applies only to electricity and counts the costs but not the savings those costs produce. The net overall effect is to reduce bills.  

2. The 25% covers the additional costs of all social and environmental measures - so includes things like the Warm Homes discounts for low income pensioners, new boiler discounts and free insulation etc

3. Some of the costs are legacy from 10-15 years ago as early wind turbine installers were promised high guaranteed tariffs for up to 20 years to encourage them to kick start the market. Wind generation of electricity no longer needs subsidies and is now cheaper than oil, coal and nuclear. It used to be be a bit more expensive than gas but probably atm it is also cheaper than gas. 

 

     

 

I cant find an up to date up to date breakdown but these are the figures for 2014    

  

Edited 18 May, 2022 by buctootim

[whelk]

36 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

My concern is that a windfall tax on the oil and gas companies will only achieve them putting their prices up to protect their profits.  Ultimately this will benefit the tax man even more - as taxes are a percentage of the selling price - and hit the consumer even harder.

It is money they haven’t factored in and are just huge beneficiaries of the market price.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Does anyone actually not agree with a windfall tax on the big oil companies?

On the surface, it seems like a good idea and it's a bit of a crowd pleaser to boot. However, I have an underlying belief/philosophy that politicians aren't very good at spending/redistributing other people's money wisely/efficiently. How about a more direct/targeted approach instead? Say, free petrol/diesel for families that are struggling? Probably a nightmare to administer/implement such an idea, and no doubt open to abuse, but I'm not convinced giving politicians access to a few billion quid via a windfall tax would actually solve anything. #thinkingoutloud

Edited 18 May, 2022 by trousers

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

It is money they haven’t factored in and are just huge beneficiaries of the market price.

Very true.  Doesn't mean they won't want to keep it, especially their shareholders.

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Very true.  Doesn't mean they won't want to keep it, especially their shareholders.

Many of whom are 'ordinary Joe' pension holders of course

[aintforever]

Some people are going to need help this winter and that has to be paid for so a windfall tax makes sense.

[Weston Super Saint]

13 minutes ago, trousers said:

Many of whom are 'ordinary Joe' pension holders of course

Who probably have no idea where their pension funds are invested...

[trousers]

11 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Some people are going to need help this winter and that has to be paid for so a windfall tax makes sense.

Why do you trust the untrustworthy Tories to distribute the money received from such a tax wisely / efficiently? In principle, isn't some kind of 'direct relief' scheme more efficient than a tax based solution? 

Edited 18 May, 2022 by trousers

[aintforever]

40 minutes ago, trousers said:

Why do you trust the untrustworthy Tories to distribute the money received from such a tax wisely / efficiently? In principle, isn't some kind of 'direct relief' scheme more efficient than a tax based solution? 

I don't trust them at all. Whatever help they provide will be based around which voters they want to win over not who genuinely needs help.

[LGTL]

You fear that this really is only the start. Things could get very messy over the winter. 

[farawaysaint]

Can I come live with one of you guys? I am never going to financially recover from this 🤣

[badgerx16]

I'm waiting for Mosin to come on and tell us that he can't see a problem, given his wage hike since Brexit.

[whelk]

11 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I'm waiting for Mosin to come on and tell us that he can't see a problem, given his wage hike since Brexit.

He will feel better about himself if he puts up Faraway Saint

[sadoldgit]

5 hours ago, LGTL said:

You fear that this really is only the start. Things could get very messy over the winter. 

They were talking about the inflation rate on the radio today. Apparently it is more like 12%+ for the older generation as they spend a higher proportion of their income on fuel/food, products that have gone up the most. The windfall tax seems a no brainer, but needs to be part of a wider raft of measures to combat the cost of living crisis. A short while ago I was thinking that we could be heading for a major Winter of Discontent, but we are already in the shit big time. 

[spyinthesky]

I am old enough to remember when inflation was over 20% and we were getting a pay adjustment every month.
I also had to work three jobs at the same time to pay for the mortgage on my first house.
My kids would never contemplate this reality nowadays.
Likewise when I grew up in an unheated house with little money for food, eating out (once or twice a year) a  weeks caravan holiday (if we were lucky) no car, no phone etc etc.
This was the same for many people of our generation who had little but were relatively happy, especially if Saints won at the weekend.
Problem is all our collective aspirations have increased significantly in recent years so it is difficult for many to deal with the challenges that were part of my generation's life when growing up.

[buctootim]

18 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

I am old enough to remember when inflation was over 20% and we were getting a pay adjustment every month.
I also had to work three jobs at the same time to pay for the mortgage on my first house.
My kids would never contemplate this reality nowadays.
Likewise when I grew up in an unheated house with little money for food, eating out (once or twice a year) a  weeks caravan holiday (if we were lucky) no car, no phone etc etc.
This was the same for many people of our generation who had little but were relatively happy, especially if Saints won at the weekend.
Problem is all our collective aspirations have increased significantly in recent years so it is difficult for many to deal with the challenges that were part of my generation's life when growing up.

But that is true of every generation. One hundred years before that the best most people could hope for was half a day off per week and to not die before 40.    

[Holmes_and_Watson]

18 minutes ago, buctootim said:

But that is true of every generation. One hundred years before that the best most people could hope for was half a day off per week and to not die before 40.    

40? A dream! Why in my generation of working 36 hours a day in the loom factory followed by a double shift up lums, we'd never think of getting past 25. I didn't make it past 20, after that workhouse explosion, but do I moan about it? No! I count my blessings! Or I would, if there had been a school to go to so I could count. 🙂

Edited 18 May, 2022 by Holmes_and_Watson

[Lord Duckhunter]

[igsey]

People are struggling now - and it's a fairly warm spring. The price cap will go up again in October and they're talking about adjusting the cap every 3 months instead of every 6. Once winter comes around and energy bills are the same cost as a mortgage - we will be in real trouble.

[Turkish]

36 minutes ago, igsey said:

People are struggling now - and it's a fairly warm spring. The price cap will go up again in October and they're talking about adjusting the cap every 3 months instead of every 6. Once winter comes around and energy bills are the same cost as a mortgage - we will be in real trouble.

i guess that depends how much your mortgage is

[StDunko]

4 hours ago, igsey said:

People are struggling now - and it's a fairly warm spring. The price cap will go up again in October and they're talking about adjusting the cap every 3 months instead of every 6. Once winter comes around and energy bills are the same cost as a mortgage - we will be in real trouble.

Energy bills the same cost as a mortgage, I fricking hope not.  My current combined gas and electric deal is due to end in a month, and I know it will be going up, I'm expecting it to about double (that seems to be the crux of an email I've just got from EON), but that will still only be about 1/20th of what I repay on my mortgage each month for a pretty modest house.

My house is modern (built 2015) and has a fantastic energy efficiency rating, plus I have no kids, so I guess my energy usage is relatively low, but I'm amazed how much energy some of my friends use, I'd love to know what burns up all their energy...  

 

[ecuk268]

19 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

40? A dream! Why in my generation of working 36 hours a day in the loom factory followed by a double shift up lums, we'd never think of getting past 25. I didn't make it past 20, after that workhouse explosion, but do I moan about it? No! I count my blessings! Or I would, if there had been a school to go to so I could count. 🙂

Up lums???

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, ecuk268 said:

Up lums???

It's a regional word for chimney. 🙂

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, StDunko said:

Energy bills the same cost as a mortgage, I fricking hope not.  My current combined gas and electric deal is due to end in a month, and I know it will be going up, I'm expecting it to about double (that seems to be the crux of an email I've just got from EON), but that will still only be about 1/20th of what I repay on my mortgage each month for a pretty modest house.

My house is modern (built 2015) and has a fantastic energy efficiency rating, plus I have no kids, so I guess my energy usage is relatively low, but I'm amazed how much energy some of my friends use, I'd love to know what burns up all their energy...  

 

Scottish Power used to show you on your bill a break down of where msot was used which was quite interesting. We've just moved from a 100 year old 3 bed semi to a 4 bed new build with a combi boiler and we've barely had the heating on since we moved here. Felt a bit screwed over by Scottish Power as we were on a fixed tarrif until May next year but when we moved they automatically closed the account and said we couldn't take the rate with us. New supplier is Eon and we've not had a bill from them yet, i'm expecting it to go up but maybe by about 30% or so, since the energy efficency is great here and we appeared to being paying quite a bit more than average in our old house, probably due to the age or it. 

[whelk]

5 hours ago, StDunko said:

Energy bills the same cost as a mortgage, I fricking hope not.  My current combined gas and electric deal is due to end in a month, and I know it will be going up, I'm expecting it to about double (that seems to be the crux of an email I've just got from EON), but that will still only be about 1/20th of what I repay on my mortgage each month for a pretty modest house.

My house is modern (built 2015) and has a fantastic energy efficiency rating, plus I have no kids, so I guess my energy usage is relatively low, but I'm amazed how much energy some of my friends use, I'd love to know what burns up all their energy...  

 

I’ve noticed since I started turning the fridge off at night I saved a fortune. Also charging my phone at work helps.

Also why don’t eat more to get fat and you don’t need so much heating? Fucking poor do nothing to help themselves. I find an ice cube and a potato a wholesome nutritious meal and really simple if you  prepare the ice cubes in advance,

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

I’ve noticed since I started turning the fridge off at night I saved a fortune. Also charging my phone at work helps.

Also why don’t eat more to get fat and you don’t need so much heating? Fucking poor do nothing to help themselves. I find an ice cube and a potato a wholesome nutritious meal and really simple if you  prepare the ice cubes in advance,

They all moan about the cost of heating but when we were kids we just used to put an extra jumper on or put a blanket over us. The entitled generation expect heating and resent paying for it. You can buy a blanket for a fiver from a charity shop and save yourself £1500 a year heating bills. Stop complaining poor people 

Edited 19 May, 2022 by Turkish

[kyle04]

If people are struggling with heating bills, why don't they just move to a warmer country? Fuck me it's not rocket science.

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

If people are struggling with heating bills, why don't they just move to a warmer country? Fuck me it's not rocket science.

And no wonder their electricity is going up with their wide screen TVs and xboxes whilst they sit on their arses all day playing on them. Go and get a job or go for a walk, ideally both, it’ll save you a fortune 

[kyle04]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

And no wonder their electricity is going up with their wide screen TVs and xboxes whilst they sit on their arses all day playing on them. Go and get a job or go for a walk, ideally both, it’ll save you a fortune 

Or read a book by candlelight wearing 2 jumpers, most of us have had to make lifestyle changes, I've had to turn my Champagne fridge down a couple of degrees, the tipple is now not quite as it should be but I like to set an example.

[kyle04]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

I’ve noticed since I started turning the fridge off at night I saved a fortune. Also charging my phone at work helps.

Also why don’t eat more to get fat and you don’t need so much heating? Fucking poor do nothing to help themselves. I find an ice cube and a potato a wholesome nutritious meal and really simple if you  prepare the ice cubes in advance,

My method for the traditional "spud ice" recipe I believes saves even more energy. While the ice is solidifying in the freezer, place the potato on top of the heat exchanger at the back of the freezer. with a little practice and careful selection of potato (maris piper preferably), the two will be ready at the same time. I learnt this from a friend whos uncle use to be in the SAS, and used this technique on may occasions in the field, a;though you'll never find it in any military manual.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

The ridiculous thing is that we have a massive glut of gas in the country at the moment which has crashed the wholesale gas price.  We should actually have cheaper energy price but the market (the energy companies) are keeping them high.  I know it would be idiologically intollerable for many, but the ultimate solution for this is a publically owned utility company that can ensure a fair price.  And before anyone jumps on it, that a publically owned option, not to nationalise the whole industry.

Wholesale gas prices: https://www.economist.com/britain/2022/05/19/wholesale-gas-prices-in-britain-have-collapsed

[buctootim]

6 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

The ridiculous thing is that we have a massive glut of gas in the country at the moment which has crashed the wholesale gas price.  We should actually have cheaper energy price but the market (the energy companies) are keeping them high.  I know it would be idiologically intollerable for many, but the ultimate solution for this is a publically owned utility company that can ensure a fair price.  And before anyone jumps on it, that a publically owned option, not to nationalise the whole industry.

Wholesale gas prices: https://www.economist.com/britain/2022/05/19/wholesale-gas-prices-in-britain-have-collapsed

Its a low price but as the article says also a low volume. I think Britian only holds about a weeks supply of gas so its not meaningful. Even if you did burn that weeks supply all it would do is drive the price up. Its like one petrol station cutting prices because it has a delivery waiting and the storage tanks are full.    

Edited 20 May, 2022 by buctootim

[rallyboy]

This refusal to tax the energy companies is obscene.

For government to look the other way and enable energy companies to increase their already booming commercial success by exploiting pensioners and the poor should surely be a step too far for reasonable people?

 

 

 

[OldNick]

No doubt a windfall tax will come into play, but IMO it will only get passed on. We need the oil companies to open up more wells and get production back up again in the North Sea. More production can only help with the world oil price, that in turn helps the cost of living. Penalising the oil companies, who are under pressure due to the green lobby, only will make them less ambitious. 

Brexit has had its costs that have been passed on by logistics companies, food importers etc etc. Any of you who have experience of exporting/importing will have seen the extra costs that have added to the cost of living.

As China and India become wealthier, as they develop the taste for meat and dairy products, this in turn will mean that the worlds commodity price for such things is going to push up. Cheap food, energy will be something we will only pass on as stories to our grandchildren. 

Obviously Ukraines importance of producing food etc is a factor

 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, rallyboy said:

This refusal to tax the energy companies is obscene.

For government to look the other way and enable energy companies to increase their already booming commercial success by exploiting pensioners and the poor should surely be a step too far for reasonable people?

 

 

 

You clearly aren’t thinking about Trousers’s pension

[whelk]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

No doubt a windfall tax will come into play, but IMO it will only get passed on. We need the oil companies to open up more wells and get production back up again in the North Sea. More production can only help with the world oil price, that in turn helps the cost of living. Penalising the oil companies, who are under pressure due to the green lobby, only will make them less ambitious. 

Brexit has had its costs that have been passed on by logistics companies, food importers etc etc. Any of you who have experience of exporting/importing will have seen the extra costs that have added to the cost of living.

As China and India become wealthier, as they develop the taste for meat and dairy products, this in turn will mean that the worlds commodity price for such things is going to push up. Cheap food, energy will be something we will only pass on as stories to our grandchildren. 

Obviously Ukraines importance of producing food etc is a factor

 

Brexit also put huge burden on civil service but these ideological pricks are now laying the blame at their door. Plus they are all at home watching Netflix

[rallyboy]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

You clearly aren’t thinking about Trousers’s pension

Lord T and I happily live off the royalties from the Pompey Takeover Saga. 

[Dark Munster]

On 20/05/2022 at 03:28, OldNick said:

No doubt a windfall tax will come into play, but IMO it will only get passed on.

 

Not if the tax is 100% above a certain profit (price gouging) threshold. Then if they try to raise the price above a certain level they pocket none of the excess, and actually will lose out as demand will be lower. In short, they will maximise profit at a retail price which is lower than it is now.

[Turkish]

I see Shell have reported Q1 profits of $9.1b up from $3.2b in the same period this time last year. Meanwhile fuel is closing in on £2 a litre. Yet we get told it's not their fault prices are going up whilst they report biggest profits in over 15 years during a supposed energy crisis. 

Edited 8 June, 2022 by Turkish

[badgerx16]

21 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I see Shell have reported Q1 profits of $9.1b up from $3.2b in the same period this time last year. Meanwhile fuel is closing in on £2 a litre. Yet we get told it's not their fault prices are going up whilst they report biggest profits in over 15 years during a supposed energy crisis. 

Yet the wholesale cost of petrol is now falling.

Edited 8 June, 2022 by badgerx16

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Yet the wholesale cost of petrol is now falling.

They always hide behind how they bought it at a higher price so cant cut the cost now. 

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

They always hide behind how they bought it at a higher price so cant cut the cost now. 

Passed 2 filling stations today, less than a mile apart. The difference in price between the 2 was 9p per litre.

[AlexLaw76]

Petrol/Diesel prices are a disgrace.  The level of tax on them even more so.  Amazed that the nation / the masses just suck it up

Edited 8 June, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[Lighthouse]

26 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Petrol/Diesel prices are a disgrace.  The level of tax on them even more so.  Amazed that the nation / the masses just suck it up

So you never buy any petrol?

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

So you never buy any petrol?

Have you used a random reply generator?

[spyinthesky]

On 19/05/2022 at 22:55, kyle04 said:

My method for the traditional "spud ice" recipe I believes saves even more energy. While the ice is solidifying in the freezer, place the potato on top of the heat exchanger at the back of the freezer. with a little practice and careful selection of potato (maris piper preferably), the two will be ready at the same time. I learnt this from a friend whos uncle use to be in the SAS, and used this technique on may occasions in the field, a;though you'll never find it in any military manual.

Who can afford Maris Piper?

[whelk]

Are they going to reconfigure the pumps so not a maximum spend of £99?