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Saints Expelled from Playoffs

St Chalet

By St Chalet
in The Saints

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Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Has Parsons been sacked yet? 
 

I want him out of this club TODAY. 
 

Loose lips sink ships. 

Can’t help thinking that whatever their other failings, Cortese or Rupert would have handled this episode better. 
 

Assuming the story of Parsons chat with Gibson is true. 

Edited by Badger
  • Like 3
SNSUN

SNSUN

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Just checked the OS.

Ah, it's ok. We're still preparing for the play off final. I must have dreamt this.

Fucking wankers.

I wouldn't put it past the club right now that had we not sold out, they would still be selling tickets for it.

  • Like 2
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

I appreciate SR are an absolute shit show but don’t really see the relevance on this specific situation. Can’t imagine any of them were aware of it and the only trusted ITK on here confirmed that a few days back. 

Are SR not responsible for leaving the club's 'Compliance Officer' post / team vacant for several months (as we've been led to believe is the case). One would have thought that was at least a contributing factor here...?

Edited by trousers
  • Like 1
Lallana's Left Peg

Lallana's Left Peg

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

It is never getting reversed but if it did does anyone want to go to wembley? I know I don't.

I would.  The players don't deserve this.  Even when we've been utterly shit in the past and there was incompetence above them I'd go and watch because none of it was the players fault.

  • Like 2
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Golactico said:

Talk of our best players now being sold, but will they? Won't they just walk away from their breached contracts and become free agents and moving to Prem clubs with enhanced signing-on fees. It could be a great outcome for the likes of THB, Leo etc

As part of the appeal, maybe we should insist that the EFL impose a two-way transfer embargo on us for a year...? ;)

Elmore Saint

Elmore Saint

Posted
Posted

Classic case of two things can be true at once....

1. We are woefully run and have been from day 1 of the SR tenure. I wouldn't trust them to run a Christmas club, let alone a football club. A 21-game streak merely papered over the cracks IMO.  Root and branch change needed, probably new ownership required. Our reputation is shot whatever the outcome - that damage is done.

2. Gibson literally walked the EFL (and the tribunal panel) up the path to expulsion. Totally disproportionate and if left unchanged will not only impact this season but possibly the next 5-10. This, I hope, is what is being challenged today.  

Looking wider, football can and should take a note from Rugby - every offence has a stated penalty, with high, low and mid entry points and adjustments for mitigating circumstances. 

For us - this is a first offence since the codification of spying - so low entry point. Multiple offences so uplift to mid level, early admission - back to low as mitigation. 

A sizeable fine and suspended points deduction would be more in proportion - recognising that the offence is now codified.

  • Like 16
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Saint Billy said:

We got everything we deserved tbh. All this talk about borough using the media etc etc, we would have done the exact same thing if the ball was on the other foot. 

I disagree... SR aren't anywhere near as clever / canny as Gibson... We'd have conceded the situation with a whimper...

  • Like 1
Osvaldorama

Osvaldorama

Posted
Posted

Our legal team has to be the worst in the world. 
 

Genuinely astonished that they didn’t just deflect and deflect until after the final. 
 

Fucking school boys 

  • Like 6
saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Wishful thinking, but I can only hope saints have some evidence of others (hopefully Boro) doing it to us. That would then open an enormous can of worms that the EFL couldn't cope with.

I think Staplewood is pretty secure so not much chance of this in my book.

die Mannyschaft

die Mannyschaft

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, trousers said:

As part of the appeal, maybe we should insist that the EFL impose a two-way transfer embargo on us for a year...? ;)

Players can leave at anytime irrespective of contract club will just agree fir Players to go . Don't forget cash is more important than points to SR.

Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman

Posted
Posted
Just now, saintant said:

I think Staplewood is pretty secure so not much chance of this in my book.

Yes - we have a really secure, modern training ground, whereby the only observing is either being allowed in or by drone. As I said, well done Cortese. 

trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

Also, if the appeal is successful, who on earth leads the team out on Saturday and what are the players thinking? 

IF the appeal is successful (ain't gonna happen) then i genuinely think the club should consider forfeiting the game Vs Hull and let them go through. Yes, I know such a bonkers view will attract the usual pelters from the self-appointed forum thought police, but it would go a massive way to rescue what's left of our tattered reputation.... Anyway, ain't going to happen so all moot...

Edited by trousers
  • Like 1
whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

The funniest thing is, I still don't see any of this as a big deal. I just don't see the material advantage gained.

Yep - we have so many wet fannies who have been broken by this. I am fuming but more the disproportionate punishment not about some notional belief in an ethical code has been breached. 

  • Like 5
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Football Special said:

I have no doubt that the "whistleblower" aka co-conspiritor with Gibson had been feeding them info about how stupid we are. Gibson seized on this opportunity to "catch us in the act" and working with the EFL board member knew exactly what to do and how to implement it to give their club the advantage and a backup route to Wembley. 

Nail. Head. 

  • Like 1
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, whelk said:

Yep - we have so many wet fannies who have been broken by this. I am fuming but more the disproportionate punishment not about some notional belief in an ethical code has been breached. 

I don't think it's that. I think it's the fact that it was made very clear after the Bielsa 'Spygate' that this wouldn't be tolerated in future and we did it anyway. Not only did we do it but the bloke involved made no attempt to hide himself and it would have been miraculous for us not to get caught.

  • Like 2
RedArmy

RedArmy

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, trousers said:

IF the appeal is successful (ain't gonna happen) then i genuinely think the club should consider forfeiting the game Vs Hull and let them go through. Yes, I know such a bonkers view will attract the usual pelters from the self-appointed forum thought police, but it would go massive way to rescue what's left of our tattered reputation....

Jesus Christ get a grip man. 
 

Who gives a fuck about our reputation. 

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
Viking Saint

Viking Saint

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

And surely our players knew what was going on. Or did Tonda waltz in to training and say, I think XXX are going to do this? 

We have been screwed by the Middlesbrough PR machine. While it seems like we could have sent scouts to other (if not all) games, I'd be talking to analysts seeing if this practice was rife. And why did Oxford, Ipswich not complain at the time. Do clubs hold dossiers on each other to use and the appropriate time?

I doubt very much whether players are made aware of the source of information about opponents. 

Football Special

Football Special

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

The Beeb has a reaction thread running about this now. 

  1.  

    08:12
    Image source,Getty Images
    Image caption,

    "There is every opportunity for arguments to sway a panel today" - Trevor Watkins

    Former AFC Bournemouth chairman and sports lawyer Trevor Watkins has just told BBC Radio Solent: "We look at this and think 'my goodness how on earth has it happened?' ...there's a lot of detail to come out in due course.

    "It will be argued by lawyers today, we'll see what the result it - from my perspective it's unprecedented, it's a new rule. I think there is every opportunity for arguments to sway a panel today."

    He added: "The fans that go to every game will be so sad today... but there is hope and there will be a future and there will be games next season... where and when remains to be decided."

     
    Share

  2. David Bernstein surprised at 'disproportionate punishment'published at 07:58

    07:58
    Image source,Getty Images
    Image caption,

    Bernstein also pointed out Southampton failed to win any of the games they spied on

    Former FA chairman and Manchester City chief David Bernstein said he was "really surprised" and "taken aback by the severity of this punishment".

    Speaking on the Today programme, Bernstein said: "It was clear what they did, it was amateurish... it was stupid but I think this is a disproportionate punishment.

    "Promotion to the Premier League, other than affecting the whole history of the club and the future of the club, is worth £200-250m, a huge amount of money.

    "This offence seems to be a young man hiding behind a tree... it's not a James Bond thing... of the three matches that were spied upon, Southampton didn't win any of them.

    "It was a really stupid thing to do."

Its a shame Saints clearly didn't have any influential media voices to lean on during Boros PR war on us to help balance opinion, too many people out of their depth at the club which has shown over last 3 years 

  • Like 7
whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
Just now, Lighthouse said:

I don't think it's that. I think it's the fact that it was made very clear after the Bielsa 'Spygate' that this wouldn't be tolerated in future and we did it anyway. Not only did we do it but the bloke involved made no attempt to hide himself and it would have been miraculous for us not to get caught.

So it’s incompetence that some are saying they won’t go to Wembley even if we won on appeal.

Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, whelk said:

So it’s incompetence that some are saying they won’t go to Wembley even if we won on appeal.

No, that's just people being dramatic on the internet. This wont get overturned but if it did the vast majority of people would still go.

  • Like 2
LegalEagle

LegalEagle

Posted
Posted

I assume that if we lose the appeal today then the club will be making an urgent application tomorrow for an injunction at the High Court to stop Saturday’s game. If we don’t get the injunction then we have to pay the EFL’s costs for that application. Around £50k to £100k. In the scheme of things it’s a no brainer.

  • Like 9
Bobsmith

Bobsmith

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, whelk said:

Yep - we have so many wet fannies who have been broken by this. I am fuming but more the disproportionate punishment not about some notional belief in an ethical code has been breached. 

100% so many wet fannies saying this was deserved. It absolutely wasn’t. The corrupt EFL have been disproportionately influenced by Gibson and his media stooges, and our legal team were no where near the standard required. 

  • Like 9
Football Special

Football Special

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, whelk said:

Yep - we have so many wet fannies who have been broken by this. I am fuming but more the disproportionate punishment not about some notional belief in an ethical code has been breached. 

This. Some absolute dweebs in our fan base who have digested the media hysteria in full and now can't see past the narrative that we must be the only team who has ever done something like this and deserve such a mental punishment 

  • Like 11
Bobsmith

Bobsmith

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

I assume that if we lose the appeal today then the club will be making an urgent application tomorrow for an injunction at the High Court to stop Saturday’s game. If we don’t get the injunction then we have to pay the EFL’s costs for that application. Around £50k to £100k. In the scheme of things it’s a no brainer.

Let’s hope we do as all I’ve seen from this board so far is us rolling over 

Football Special

Football Special

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

I assume that if we lose the appeal today then the club will be making an urgent application tomorrow for an injunction at the High Court to stop Saturday’s game. If we don’t get the injunction then we have to pay the EFL’s costs for that application. Around £50k to £100k. In the scheme of things it’s a no brainer.

Sounds like we could do with you advising the amatuers at the club. 

Makes complete sense to me,  make life as difficult as possible for EFL and Middlesbrough (being the tail that has been wagging the dog all along) 

  • Like 4
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted (edited)

Jesus fucking christ, it gets worse. We've even dragged Eastleigh into this.

  • Incriminating WhatsApp messages to Southampton’s analysts from head coach Tonda Eckert were revealed in the hearing, with the German now potentially facing his own serious Football Association charges
  • Southampton had initially planned for Salt to go back and spy on Middlesbrough for a second day
  • When Southampton spied on Ipswich, the operation involved dressing in Eastleigh kit as a disguise

 

One of the key revelations at Tuesday’s hearing were the WhatsApp messages sent by Eckert to his analysts that people with knowledge of proceedings said were particularly damaging to Southampton’s case.

Two of the club’s analysts gave evidence at the hearing in which they expressed remorse for their actions but said they were pushed into the spying trips. In his evidence, Eckert — who has spent most of his coaching career in Germany — claimed he was not aware that such behaviour was against the rules in England as it was widespread in European football.

The hearing was told that Eckert had sent people to spy on fellow Championship sides Oxford and Ipswich but had been displeased with the quality of their findings. In the case of Ipswich, the subterfuge extended to using kit worn by Eastleigh, whose Hampshire training ground was hosting Southampton’s opponents.

 

Edited by S-Clarke
  • Like 1
JWade

JWade

Posted
Posted

For me, this was the straw that broke the camels back. I am done with this club in its current form and I will not be renewing my season ticket, regardless of any outcome or appeal.

Things have been rotten under this ownership for years and this is just the cherry on top. 

I think some people don't realise just how damaging this will be long term, the ripples of this scandal are going to impact every corner of the club from financials to player retention. 

At the very least, the second this appeal is done, every single person who had knowledge of this cheating should be sacked immediately. 

There aren't enough superlatives to emphasise just how angry and hurt I am by this. An entire season completely wasted because of a few idiots and now any remaining confidence and trust I had in this club has been shattered. 

This isn't heat of the moment stuff, this is years of bad decisions after bad decisions wearing me down as a fan and I don't want to do it anymore. I won't be giving the club another penny of my hard-earned money and I don't want to waste my time anymore.

At least not whilst this ownership is in place. 

Relationships can be fixed, but for me this will take a very long time and it is just another stain on modern football that is rife with corruption and cheating. I never thought Southampton would be a part of that stain, but here we are.

If I need my fix, I'll go to a non-league game. 

A sad way for it to end. The fans do not deserve this, but more importantly, the club do not deserve the fans.

  • Like 6
LeBizzier69

LeBizzier69

Posted
Posted

Probably been answered - so it's spying 72hrs +.....what is before then? Reconnaisance?

It's a ridiculous punishment for watching some fucking training sessions, and if rumours of players seeking to sue the club if we don't win the appeal (nailed on) then where the hell are we at next season?

I'll be there regardless, as i'm sure most of us will. I'd just started to really like this group of players too....just in time for them all to walk off in to the sunset holding some other clubs supporters hands. We could still have lost to Hull and that would happen anyway i suppose. 

 

  • Like 4
AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
Just now, S-Clarke said:

Jesus fucking christ, it gets worse. We've even dragged Eastleigh into this.

  • Incriminating WhatsApp messages to Southampton’s analysts from head coach Tonda Eckert were revealed in the hearing, with the German now potentially facing his own serious Football Association charges
  • Southampton had initially planned for Salt to go back and spy on Middlesbrough for a second day
  • When Southampton spied on Ipswich, the operation involved dressing in Eastleigh kit as a disguise
     

But, Tonda did not know this was against the football laws. We dress our staff in Eastleigh kit for lols.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2
Katalinic

Katalinic

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

Jesus fucking christ, it gets worse. We've even dragged Eastleigh into this.

  • Incriminating WhatsApp messages to Southampton’s analysts from head coach Tonda Eckert were revealed in the hearing, with the German now potentially facing his own serious Football Association charges
  • Southampton had initially planned for Salt to go back and spy on Middlesbrough for a second day
  • When Southampton spied on Ipswich, the operation involved dressing in Eastleigh kit as a disguise
     

Christ

Fabrice29

Fabrice29

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, trousers said:

Are SR not responsible for leaving the club's 'Compliance Officer' post / team vacant for several months (as we e been led to believe is the case). One would have thought that was at least a contributing factor here...?

In fairness I’ve no idea if that’s true and/or what role that would play in this situation. If I read reports that before Tonda and/co sent Salt packing up the motorway they were walking the halls with his packed lunch trying to find somebody to tell them if it’s all legit or not then I’d happily pile in on them. If, as I strongly suspect, this was done slightly quieter than that I might not.

  • Like 1
Mr X

Mr X

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I had a moment of thinking that I had my local team to still support.  @Gloucester Saint was having a similar path, I think, and probably others. But, for me, it was just a moment. That might change again, depending on what else comes out 🙂 

Fine up until 72 hours for EFL. Beyond that, clubs are considered to be fine to work on specific game tactics. Whether it's behind walls or on a playing field. Formerly bad form, but now could be 3 points per game/ forfeiting the game. Or, if in a play off, lose it automatically. Had that been in the rulebook, perhaps people would have adhered more to the fair play aspect. 

Enter Scott Marshall QC! 🙂 

 

 

If not exploring legal options, then certainly having a word with their agent. A possible 40% pay rise plus loads of bonuses and career opportunities gone. And the guy who may well be responsible (Tonda) is standing there trying to motivate you ahead of another season of it.

 

I can't see how tonda can continue? 

Edited by Mr X
Harry_SFC

Harry_SFC

Posted
Posted

As suspected, Tonda and most likely Spors at the centre of this. 

Dragan might be fuming but for him to let this happen/not know is negligent at best. Time to sell up. 

  • Like 1
Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

It would be interesting to know what their punishment would have been if we HAD been knocked out already.

Probably would have seen that fine come back in. 

That and the 4 points.

That's assuming Boro would have presented all the evidence, if say they had been 4-0 up after the first leg. But then, Parsons would have probably already confessed all by then to them.

AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted

Are well all in agreement that Will Salt was representing/working for or on behalf of Saints, and did not randomly wander up to Boro's training ground for his own academic research?

saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, LegalEagle said:

Negligence giving rise to a breach. I think the club have been negligent here.

The players won't even consider using breach of contract as a reason to leave as free agents - their own agents would advise against that.

  • Like 1

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