Should Saints sack Tonda?

[revolution saint]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

The players losing any respect they had for him is an issue. As would be the media circus that would follow him around for every press conference and interview.

He'll be banned, sacked for gross misconduct and Saints can move on with a new manager who hasn't tarnished his and the club's reputation. 

He probably will be banned, I agree.  The rest of your argument is supposition.  The media circus moves on, people get rehabilitated all the time and as fans we forgive anything if we're winning.

[BarberSaint]

11 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

He probably will be banned, I agree.  The rest of your argument is supposition.  The media circus moves on, people get rehabilitated all the time and as fans we forgive anything if we're winning.

Given that he seems to have agreed he can be the fall guy, I expect him to fall on his sword as that may mean he gets something from us as a goodwill gesture, we get to make up some pony about morals and depending on how his 'punishment' pans out, he'll be back in a job elsewhere after a while which I expect him to make a success of. As it'll be abroad and I don't see him coming back to England, he can investigate other teams as much as he wants and no-one will even notice.

As long as he takes Salt along with him who, I have no doubt, played the victim card (he could have gone to Parsons and said he can't break the rules) then good riddance.

We can take Will Still back.

Looking forward to see what he can do now Armstrong has gone.

 

[qwertyell]

Obviously he's got to go, and everyone that was part of the conspiracy. 

Couldn't really give two shits about the "morality" of it all - it's the breathtaking incompetence. Rule number one of being a sneaky little fucker: don't get caught. 

And if you do get caught, have a better defence lined up than "what is rules? I no understand English."

He and his circus of Keystone Cops have torpedoed the entire season - with perhaps further damage to carry on into the next one.

That degree of mismanagement shouldn't require any debate: get gone and stay gone.

There's no moving forwards otherwise. 

[Hawkswood]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Absolutely this. 

PR can be spun.  Not by this rabble obviously but......oh yeah......fair enough

[scumbag]

Nah. Double down, stick with, and wind up the puritans. Siege mentality. Maybe a couple of 73 hr 'observations' next season just for the lols. Sing about being evil cheats etc. and embrace it.

[Harry_SFC]

1 hour ago, BarberSaint said:

Given that he seems to have agreed he can be the fall guy, I expect him to fall on his sword as that may mean he gets something from us as a goodwill gesture, we get to make up some pony about morals and depending on how his 'punishment' pans out, he'll be back in a job elsewhere after a while which I expect him to make a success of. As it'll be abroad and I don't see him coming back to England, he can investigate other teams as much as he wants and no-one will even notice.

As long as he takes Salt along with him who, I have no doubt, played the victim card (he could have gone to Parsons and said he can't break the rules) then good riddance.

We can take Will Still back.

Looking forward to see what he can do now Armstrong has gone.

 

Yep. Tonda won't have any issues getting a job in Germany. 

[SaintsLoyal]

I dont see how this is a poll ! clearly his job is totally untenable and he wont be involved in football for longtime if ever again.

[Crab Lungs]

5 minutes ago, scumbag said:

Nah. Double down, stick with, and wind up the puritans. Siege mentality. Maybe a couple of 73 hr 'observations' next season just for the lols. Sing about being evil cheats etc. and embrace it.

I actually don’t mind that, purely for the pantomime villain thing. Love it. Especially considering how righteous and precious oppo fans are.

the spying was a step too far but I do like shithousery. 

[sockeye]

I don't think he will survive the scandal, and if he did, I think the squad would be deeply unhappy.

[wild-saint]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

The sponsors, who prop up our 'Financial Fair Play' status, probably do...

Who P&O ? Like they have a great employment rights reputation. Fucking worse than ours right now 😂😂😂

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

Who P&O ? Like they have a great employment rights reputation. Fucking worse than ours right now 😂😂😂

I think you're mixing up P&O Ferries (employee sacking fiasco) and P&O Cruises (Southampton FC sponsor)...?

[Saint Fen]

Who is the most likely manager to get us out of this league. If Tonda he shouldn’t be sacked. 
If the player still accept him then for me he stays. If not he has to go.

I’m on the fence. Originally for me he has to be sacked but take emotion out of it then I’m not sure.

Same with Spors, recruitment with the exception of Downs has been amazing. 

I haven’t voted as it depends on the players. Win a few games at the start and fans are on side. Loose and they’re want him sacked like every other manager. Fans are more fickle then ever these days.

Edited 22 hours ago by Saint Fen

[Guan 2.0]

No, and for the same reasons I gave in the "Tonda Eckert" forum Discussion. I do worry that the FA will take the decision out of our hands, though: 
 

Quote

Tonda being named in the report was baked into the price when this debate first arose, at least from my personal perspective. 

Will Sacking Tonda make us any more palatable to the Media? No. We will have this hanging over us for the next year, whichever course we decide. 

Will Sacking Tonda Leave us better off in terms of Achieving Promotion next year? Also no. It will make it infinitely harder. Our rivals are probably desperately hoping we make such a move and finish outside the top 8, wasting another year of Parachute Payments. 

Will Sacking Tonda Reinstate us in this year's Play-off Final? No. Nothing can change that at this point, so it's abscence is not a factor. 

And will Sacking Tonda make it more likely that critical Player identification and acquisition will improve? Seeing as Bree returned, Peretz and Larin were regained or loaned in important positions under his watch, again, no.  

For all the hand-wringing moralising in the report, this isn't a Land Baron employing children to work in coal mines. 

Did Tonda try to gain us Maximum Sporting Advantage? Of Course. But so do 1000 teams who break a million rules related to fair play every day. Teams that dive, go down with fake injuries, or (allegedly) financially dope. 

Some people might claim that Tonda has to go, and "It's the Right thing". Be the honest club. 

This approach has never helped us. 

It didn't help when Gabbiadini wasn't offside.

It didn't help when Newcastle exploited Covid rules.

And it didn't help trying to compete in a league containing teams that (allegedly) work outside the agreed Financial structure.  

For the next few days, this is news. Then the World Cup hype begins. Interest in us goes away. 

As long as Tonda is not banned, we quietly get on with the business of retaining as much of the squad as possible, and recruiting where we need to. 

We realise that the chants from away fans are there anyway, get on with it, and aim for the top 8. 

Unless anyone knows of a Top Manager that will come to us in these circumstances? 

 

[Cuddles]

Like a cheating, but very hot, ex...I want him back to get us up.

The performances and general shithousery were on a different level.

In the words of David Guetta:

Too cold for you to keep her, too hot for you to leave her

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

The players losing any respect they had for him is an issue. As would be the media circus that would follow him around for every press conference and interview.

He'll be banned, sacked for gross misconduct and Saints can move on with a new manager who hasn't tarnished his and the club's reputation. 

The players can't really be that angry with him in truth. Not if they engage their brains. Before he came in they were staring at relegation... So they can't really blame him for fluffing up a promotion chance they wouldn't have had without him 🤷 . In summary, they were shit without him, incredible with him, and then he shit the bed and we went full circle... They make a fitting group I'd say.

Edited 21 hours ago by Saint86

[wild-saint]

6 hours ago, trousers said:

I think you're mixing up P&O Ferries (employee sacking fiasco) and P&O Cruises (Southampton FC sponsor)...?

Ah good point? You’re right. Although all those Philippine workers packed into suitcases and paid $1 an hour never leaving the ship may not agree 😂

[EssEffCee]

8 hours ago, SaintsLoyal said:

I dont see how this is a poll ! clearly his job is totally untenable and he wont be involved in football for longtime if ever again.

'Ever' 🤣

What world are you living in? He'll get a job as soon as his ban finishes.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

No I wouldn't sack him. We've been punished enough by expulsion so let's not make things even worse for ourselves by getting rid of a bloody good manager who has made a mistake. Couldn't give a monkey's what everyone else in football thinks, they have all been kicking us this week (with the odd exception) and taking great pleasure while doing so f@@k them all.

 

And another controversial view ... I wouldn't sack PP either. I've got to know him well over the last two years (long story) and while he has undoubtedly made mistakes he has also done a helluva lot to increase our revenue. He is also very committed to the club, he literally has become a huge fan (as has his family) and I still believe him to be an asset despite recent events.

[EssEffCee]

Nah Parsons can get in the bin. Well out of his depth and as much to blame for us not being at Wembley today as anyone else.

[macca155]

I can't envisage a scenario where we keep Tonda, but I wouldn't object if we do. The whole spying fiasco shouldn't detract from the fantastic job he did. 

His ability to galvanise and motivate players, tactical acumen, and let's face it ice cold shithousery, probably presents our best opportunity for success next year.

As FF says, who gives a fuck about what the football world think. They aren't exactly positive at the moment.

All depends on what the FA do and whether the players are prepared to accept him.

 

 

[benjii]

14 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

No I wouldn't sack him. We've been punished enough by expulsion so let's not make things even worse for ourselves by getting rid of a bloody good manager who has made a mistake. Couldn't give a monkey's what everyone else in football thinks, they have all been kicking us this week (with the odd exception) and taking great pleasure while doing so f@@k them all.

 

And another controversial view ... I wouldn't sack PP either. I've got to know him well over the last two years (long story) and while he has undoubtedly made mistakes he has also done a helluva lot to increase our revenue. He is also very committed to the club, he literally has become a huge fan (as has his family) and I still believe him to be an asset despite recent events.

Biggest fuck up in the history of the club and you wouldn't sack anyone because they indulge in some chummy antics.

 

Dusan Tadic > "not fit to wear the shirt!".

 

Brilliant.

[benjii]

For those who want to keep him: what exactly do you propose we do in consideration of his likely FA punishment?

Just hang around and see what happens all summer?

[Willo of Whiteley]

I think the problem is if you keep him then what does that say to the rest of the world?

What does that say to the players who are no doubt hugely let down by him?

His position is untenable. Even if he stays for a bit, he’s already gone.

Start afresh. Move on.
Good results yes, but coercing youngsters into dirty tricks doesn’t sit right with me.

[EssEffCee]

1 minute ago, benjii said:

For those who want to keep him: what exactly do you propose we do in consideration of his likely FA punishment?

Just hang around and see what happens all summer?

This the thing, you can just imagine us saying all is forgiven and we'll keep him before he's then banned a week before the season starts.

[Saint_clark]

I'm honestly shocked so many people think we should keep him. 

[benjii]

10 minutes ago, EssEffCee said:

This the thing, you can just imagine us saying all is forgiven and we'll keep him before he's then banned a week before the season starts.

Exactly. And we'd be off to the usual slow start.

It's actually mental that the club has said nothing since the other night.

[Saint86]

13 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I'm honestly shocked so many people think we should keep him. 

Should Leeds have sacked bielsa?

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Should Leeds have sacked bielsa?

Did his actions cost them a place in the play-off final?

[Livewire]

Or wait until the FA suspend him and then be forced to look for a replacement? Not a matter of morals, just practicality.

[Livewire]

31 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I think the problem is if you keep him then what does that say to the rest of the world?

What does that say to the players who are no doubt hugely let down by him?

His position is untenable. Even if he stays for a bit, he’s already gone.

Start afresh. Move on.
Good results yes, but coercing youngsters into dirty tricks doesn’t sit right with me.

That last is the bit that galls me too. He used the younger and more vulnerable members of staff for this, ones who are desperate for a career in football and will not find it easy to refuse.

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

With regret, yes.

Shame as I still think he'll have a decent managerial career but I just don't see how he can come back from what's happened here.

[Osvaldorama]

5 minutes ago, Livewire said:

That last is the bit that galls me too. He used the younger and more vulnerable members of staff for this, ones who are desperate for a career in football and will not find it easy to refuse.

I think that’s because he did it throughout his career, so he saw it as the normal path. 
 

Hes been doing this for a long time. 

[sadoldgit]

15 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Did his actions cost them a place in the play-off final?

Isn’t it all about the intent? We know that we broke the rules even if there was no material gain. We were charged with breaking the rules. The importance of the game was not the issue, the intent was.

[StrangelyBrown]

For me I think if we kept him we'd continue to be successful; the players that stuck around would forget quickly and us fans would be happy once we were winning, but this isn't about success, it is about optics and showing a little bit of remorse for what we've done as a club.

We need to sack him before the FA inevitably ban him - the FA as another bunch of moronic cock wombles will ban him - we're not important enough to them for them so they'll throw us under the bus for their own image.

Unfortunately the whole saga is about optics rather than the right thing.

Edited 12 hours ago by StrangelyBrown

[sadoldgit]

Just now, Osvaldorama said:

I think that’s because he did it throughout his career, so he saw it as the normal path. 
 

Hes been doing this for a long time. 

Do you think he was doing it when coaching the U21s? Seems a bit over the top at that level, but who knows?

[Tom & Gerry]

We have said that the punishment doesn't fit the crime so you should consider if he he should be sacked for the crime not the punishment. Having that we have to restore our reputation if we are to attract players particularly for the academy.  He has to go but he will probably be leading Bayern Munich to European glory in a couple of years.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

50 minutes ago, benjii said:

For those who want to keep him: what exactly do you propose we do in consideration of his likely FA punishment?

Just hang around and see what happens all summer?

Send him to Turkey.

[James G]

I suppose we say he will get a job abroad, but clubs abroad have now seen the gains of playing team who spy. So, it might not be as easy to get another job 

[Saint_clark]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Send him to Turkey.

Goztepe are doing well but you might be onto something, they'll probably send him to Valenciennes 😂

[Saint_clark]

17 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Isn’t it all about the intent? We know that we broke the rules even if there was no material gain. We were charged with breaking the rules. The importance of the game was not the issue, the intent was.

Not at all, people get fired all the time when they intend to do one thing and it backfires and costs the company in a massive way.

[sfc4prem]

The tendency to sack and remove in this country is so endemic. It spreads across football, business and politics like a fucking miasma.

If they're incompetent or have committed a heinous crime, fine.

If they're generally competent and have made a gross error of judgement which isn't criminal or morally repugnant, surely room can be made for educating and keeping them?

[sfc4prem]

10 minutes ago, Tom & Gerry said:

We have said that the punishment doesn't fit the crime so you should consider if he he should be sacked for the crime not the punishment. Having that we have to restore our reputation if we are to attract players particularly for the academy.  He has to go but he will probably be leading Bayern Munich to European glory in a couple of years.

 

And that right there is why we're a bunch of cunts that will never win a thing of note in any of our lifetimes.

You'd favour 'optics' over that, though.

[Tom & Gerry]

16 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

And that right there is why we're a bunch of cunts that will never win a thing of note in any of our lifetimes.

You'd favour 'optics' over that, though.

You don't think we need to attract players, sponsors, investment?

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, Tom & Gerry said:

You don't think we need to attract players, sponsors, investment?

If he stayed and took us up next season (won't happen as he will likely be banned), do you genuinely believe no one decent would join us in the prem because we previously broke a rule? Ok next season may be a bit tricky as it'll be slightly fresh in the memory, but I think it'll be like that if we have Tonda or not. 

[SaintsLoyal]

Its a shambolic farce thes not be sacked yet for gross miscoduct - clear evidence of that

Just proves that all those clowns like Parsons and Spors need to go and realistically the clud needs to sold, Solak is a joke.

Edited 11 hours ago by SaintsLoyal

[Sheaf Saint]

11 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Not at all, people get fired all the time when they intend to do one thing and it backfires and costs the company in a massive way.

Indeed. 

Doesn't apply to me anymore, working in the public sector, because everything we do has to be 100% transparent. But when I worked in the private sector it was generally acknowledged that if you were going to cut corners and bend rules to get results, you'd better make damn sure you were smart about it and not get caught out. Cos if you did, and it ended up costing the company money to put right, then you would be the one to take the fall. 

It's no different here. Tonda oversaw a strategy of breaking rules to get ahead of the opposition. If he'd been clever about it and nobody had ever found out, then he would have been rewarded handsomely by the club if it had resulted in promotion, and nobody would even be discussing this. But he failed to anticipate the possible risks and it's cost us the chance of promotion (and all the riches that go with it) and brought shame and ridicule on the club. 

He can't survive this. He just can't.

[Lighthouse]

Imagine coming into work one morning and your boss says, “you know that big promotion and pay rise you were hoping for next month, well I’m afraid we’ve had to call it off because I’ve been caught embezzling company funds and we lost one of our major contracts as a result. Still, never mind, we’re all in this together eh, I bet you can’t wait to get started on our next project.”

On a scale of one to ‘you can f**k right off’, how likely are you to stick around that company and pull up trees to try and succeed?

[Tom & Gerry]

14 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

If he stayed and took us up next season (won't happen as he will likely be banned), do you genuinely believe no one decent would join us in the prem because we previously broke a rule? Ok next season may be a bit tricky as it'll be slightly fresh in the memory, but I think it'll be like that if we have Tonda or not. 

I wish you were right but I think the hostility from fans, not least our own would be too great. We need a Manager now that can bring back some positivity.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Before you get into the morals, the practicalities mean it’s inconceivable he’s not sacked. He’ll face a ban, then what do we do, put Lallana in charge until he’s back? We’re starting 4 points behind everyone else, we need to hit the ground running. 
 

Im a big right man/right time type of Bloke. Claudio Ranerai right man at Leicester for that exact moment. Tonda did a great job getting very good under performing players playing to their potential, and he was tactically excellent. That’s not going to be the job this time. This is going to need a backs to the wall, those bastards are all against us, Manager who can get average players playing well. A manager who has seen it all and will not be put off by anything.  Is that Tonda? Who knows. But this isn’t going to be the same club he took over from Still. You also can’t tell me there won’t be some resentment around the club if he stays, not just players, but support staff and supporters. If he loses early, things are going to get very tasty very early. 
 

So from a practical point, it’s a No. From a “is he the right fit”, it’s a maybe, and from the moral point of view, I think he’ll be damn lucky to keep his job. 
 

 

[LegalEagle]

I’m starting to wonder whether as a result of the players and Tonda sitting down together (and assuming that the players are happy to work with him - those that are staying) that they’ve made a decision to try and stick with him as they see him as our best bet at getting back up next season. They will use Pannick or an equivalent to fight the FA charges as hard as they can and avoid a ban. A ban - he goes. No ban - he stays. Might be as black and white as that.