Should Saints sack Tonda?

[egg]

3 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Thanks to Parsons fessing up like a naughty schoolgirl the club had no choice but to batten down the hatches and attempt to control what was an utter shitshow. Tonda was part of it yes, but he’s no child killer FFS. Accountability starts at the top.

Parsons opening his mouth was stupid, but the evidence may have meant we were screwed anyway. Who knows. 

I'd like to know whether Tonda has lost the dressing room, but regardless, his position is untenable for me. 

[Cuddles]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

I'd like to know whether Tonda has lost the dressing room, but regardless, his position is untenable for me. 

You've made him Tonda Egg-hurt with that comment 😭

[Pilchards]

The more I think about it the more I prefer him to stay.

(1) Don’t trust them to get a decent replacement (Will Still springs to mind)

(2) Everyone hates us so they might as well hate us with him in charge.

(3) He actually knows his stuff and brings on subs to win games.

(4) The players work and respect him.

(5) He’s a mean bastard and has a part of Fergie/Jose about him.

[Saint86]

Every club is going to refer to us as "the cheats" etc., next year. May as well own it and rub their faces in it to boot... Everyone knows he's a quality coach, every club wants us to sack him or be made to sack him. It's not disputable that he is class manager, possibly the best in the league, and he's tainted now - so basically he's our if we want him.

If he doesn't get banned and the 26/27 squad will stick with him, we would be stupid to sack him... Really is that simple.

I know some fans struggle with the media/peer pressure and engaging their own critical thinking skills (the voting on this thread is proof enough of that with the initial sway from 70% "sack" to near 50/50 now - thankfully). Blackmore is a prime example of someone who gets wrapped up in it and just goes with the flow. But bottom line - we are all saints, as it tonda and the squad, sod the outside - they've already judged us... It is time to close ranks and stick together. None of the outside noise changes that this team and manager would have been in contention for the best ever championship team... Imagine if city hasn't scored an 82nd minute deflected bouncing shot from outside the box, imagine if we had got promotion... yes we stupidly broke a stupid rule, but this team was performing near miracles. You don't blow that up unless we're forced to.

Edited 4 hours ago by Saint86

[Wade Garrett]

59 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

He’s a nipper probably living with his parents, but that’s not the point. He’s no better off now than if he resigned with his head held high. As I keep saying I don’t blame him - I blame Parsons as the architect of policy. And yes, in another life in the past I’ve resigned because I disagreed with corporate policy - I took on that responsibility for myself.

Don’t blame Eckert then for instigating the whole sorry episode.  Righto.

[Tom & Gerry]

I'm coming round, but he's going to be banned isn't he? Mind you he only needs half a season and will he have the players next season?

We could wait for the FA verdict and then it would take one hell of an apology. 

[Graffito]

From the information in the public domain his position is untenable. I’m surprised he’s still there. You wonder whether that’s more indecision and dithering by SR or whether there’s something else holding it up. Nonetheless, this article for me adds to the sense that we may be losing an excellent coach. (I read the article in the newspaper. This is behind a paywall so can’t help if you don’t have a subscription). https://www.thetimes.com/sport/football/article/tonda-eckert-southampton-spygate-play-offs-dn722kv26

[Oldandtired]

I take it that all the hard line moralists on here will be rocking up to Fratton Park next season if he keeps his job?

Edited 3 hours ago by Oldandtired

[saintant]

If the players are happy then let him carry on. This will have taught him a huge lesson and he'll know he's cost the club big time.

The noise will subside in time. The press and pundits have had more than their pound of flesh.

So keep him if at all possible, circle the wagons and work doubly hard next season. Tonda has all the motivation he needs.

I get this may be all too simplistic and may not be possible. However, he's a young manager and we can allow him this mistake albeit is a big one. Let's not cut off our nose to spite our face if there is an alternative.

People including Saints fans can forgive and forget.

[SaintsLoyal]

Show me a player that would play for Eckert EVER again ! 

 

I expect most of our squad want his head on a stick for whats happened and rightly so.  

[pimpin4rizeal]

Good to see it’s almost 50/50 at least 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

In the main, I get my 'news' from the SaintsWeb site and form an opinion on the various views. But speaking to other Saints' fans today, they said there's texts between Tonda and analysts where he's saying go back and watch the team again because he wasn't happy with the results and analysts texting him saying are you sure we should be doing this? Surely he knew he was breaking the rules.

I can see SFC releasing this kind of stuff to make it sound like he was a loose cannon, but given his connection to Spors, it's hard to believe he also did not know what was going on. So it's not just Tonda that needs to go.

If the last two weeks are anything to go by, the Saints hierarchy will drag their feet and wait for the FA's decision. But if SFC want to keep him, they need to get going and trivialise the rules he broke, threaten to sue anyone who continues to call him a cheat (he's only a rule breaker) and generally go on the offensive. Nah, you're toast Tonda.

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Show me a player that would play for Eckert EVER again ! 

 

I expect most of our squad want his head on a stick for whats happened and rightly so.  

You don't know that.

[Bakovnetski]

The trust is lost. He can't come back from that.

[pimpin4rizeal]

7 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Show me a player that would play for Eckert EVER again ! 

 

I expect most of our squad want his head on a stick for whats happened and rightly so.  

What makes you sure they knew nothing about it anyway . 

[2Morrow]

Changed my mind. 

Keep the prick, hes our prick.

First unbeaten season in the champ.

[saintant]

The punishment meted out by the heavyhanded EFL has turned this into a 'let's all hate Eckert' feeding frenzy. Let's be honest the punishment in no sense fitted the crime. So let's be critical of him because he was stupid but we shouln't multiply our criticism just because the EFL decided to play to the crowd and bow to the demands of a bunch of blood thirsty journos and pundits.

[egg]

22 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Show me a player that would play for Eckert EVER again ! 

I expect most of our squad want his head on a stick for whats happened and rightly so.  

I spoke with a prominent ex player in the week. He thinks the lads will feel that way, and won't want to play for him. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, Cuddles said:

I don't think they will ban him you know. Not unless they can prove he was bullying really badly.

If they're going to apply HR practices that exist elsewhere to football squads, coaching and back room, there's going to be a lot of vacancies coming up.

[Oldandtired]

19 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

If they're going to apply HR practices that exist elsewhere to football squads, coaching and back room, there's going to be a lot of vacancies coming up.

That seems to be a lot of people on here who would do it better... or at least think they would do it better.

[skintsaint]

Will probably put him on suspended leave until the FA hearing. If banned then sacked, if not he comes back.

Unfortunately, that would put AL in charge in the meantime, unless we can get an old duffer like Hodgson to come in for a few months.

[BarberSaint]

6 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Because of his actions, a decent side will be broken up, we lost the chance of promotion & could face further charges & scrutiny. It’s unbelievable people think he should keep his job after that monumental mistake.
 

Unlike Bielsa he didn’t take accountability for this from the off. It looks like he lied by pretending he thought it wasn’t illegal. Why did he think Salt objected to doing it against Ipswich, because he had a haircut that day he didn’t want to miss? 

The avatar's getting old.

 

As are you.

 

Retire.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(with all those pints you'll never find a use for).

[Saint86]

53 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Show me a player that would play for Eckert EVER again ! 

 

I expect most of our squad want his head on a stick for whats happened and rightly so.  

Let's surmise again for those that can't process bielsa did more "spying" (scouting) than Eckert did.

Players pre Eckert - relegation scrap.

Players post Eckert - one of the all time best championship sides.

Players: "it's eckert's fault we didn't get promoted"

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Edited 2 hours ago by Saint86

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Show me a player that would play for Eckert EVER again ! 

 

I expect most of our squad want his head on a stick for whats happened and rightly so.  

From a relegation fight to challenging for promotion. Players underperforming to back to their full potential. Frail team mentality to full on self belief. Whatever they think about “Spygate,” I’d be very surprised if they didn’t want to play for him again.

[Saint Gifford]

Of course he has to go, but along with his line manager and the CEO.

Dragan needs to find another Nicola, because at the moment we are Sunday League off the pitch. 
 

We lurch from one PR disaster to another since SR took charge. But we all know every club does it, we were stupid enough to get caught. 
 

He’s a great manager, but we now need a proven old school takes no prisoners manager. We will need it with the inevitable crap that’s coming are way. 
 

Someone that has been around the block a few times, and no not Ben Gardner, or another young coach. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Saint Gifford

[RedArmy]

13 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

 

Players post Eckert - one of the all time best championship sides.

 

Errrrr, no! 
 

Take his point per game and extrapolate that across an entire season (94) and it’s not even in the top 10 points hauls in a championship season. 

 

[BarberSaint]

4 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Oh piss off. Not everyone has that kind of freedom in the job they do which funnily enough they might need to pay the bills or build a career in a tough industry to progress in. 

Life is a bit more complicated that your reductionist take in it.

Crap. He had access to a huge amount of informal knowledge (stuff on Whatsapp, X, tik tok, talking to people); he wasn't in a vacuum.

SFC/others will have an anonymous reporting line for misdemeanours or the like.

He could call the grass line that they advertise on match days.

He has plenty of opportunity to 'play the victim' and this was hardly an impartial, informed, investigative tribunal despite the bullshit description of it.

He could anonymously tell the FA/EFL and have them investigate early the allegations.

He's an intern, back for a second time. All he has to do is go and intern for someone else - you can move from call centre to call centre to call centre. His level of job is more akin to that than from moving from a PHD in marketing to Physics (i.e. high level, highly specialised, distinct, discrete, requiring a large degree of capability to explain the analogy because clearly otherwise you wouldn't get it although whether you would if I spelled it out in alpabetti spaghetti is also questionable) so he has a large degree of freedom and no-one would know other than he 'wanted to be close to his spiritual roots'. I suspect strongly that personality clashes play a part in this; there are large overtones of vindictiveness. 

I can see TE being quite demanding (as efficient people, dare I say Germans, can be) and that that can rub those who are used to an easier life under e.g. Will Still (useless cunt) who started life as a ... shock horror .... analyst as you'll know having watched interviews with him and who seemed eager to please rather than actually be effective.

I prefer effective; it gets us unbeaten in 20+ in the league and isn't Russell Martin 'Boreball' bullshit.

Some of the footy we played under TE last season was excellent. He had Flynn Downes running back 40 yards and putting in a contender for tackle of the season, he had Ryan (fucking useless cunt no more) Manning turning on the ball like prime Zinedine Zidane, he had us playing stuff that at times was so sublime Keegan and Channon would have been green with jealousy. While we lost (deservedly) to Man City, we held our own for large parts of the game defensively.

I can't remember the last time I always felt calm at a game even when we went behind. Always. Never doubted the team, never doubted that we'd come up with something.

Very un-Southampton like. We were good. We were in control. And by fucking God, we were good. Damn good.

[LegalEagle]

12 minutes ago, Saint Gifford said:

Of course he has to go, but along with his line manager and the CEO.

Dragan needs to find another Nicola, because at the moment we are Sunday League off the pitch. 
 

We lurch from one PR disaster to another since SR took charge. But we all know every club does it, we were stupid enough to get caught. 
 

He’s a great manager, but we now need a proven old school takes no prisoners manager. We will need it with the inevitable crap that’s coming are way. 
 

Someone that has been around the block a few times, and no not Ben Gardner, or another young coach. 

Ugly football but Sean Dyche is your man if that’s what you’re looking for.

[SaintsLoyal]

28 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

From a relegation fight to challenging for promotion. Players underperforming to back to their full potential. Frail team mentality to full on self belief. Whatever they think about “Spygate,” I’d be very surprised if they didn’t want to play for him again.

Eh ? Do you realise the financial implications that have gone up in smoke for many of them.

[SaintsLoyal]

29 minutes ago, Saint Gifford said:

Of course he has to go, but along with his line manager and the CEO.

Dragan needs to find another Nicola, because at the moment we are Sunday League off the pitch. 
 

We lurch from one PR disaster to another since SR took charge. But we all know every club does it, we were stupid enough to get caught. 
 

He’s a great manager, but we now need a proven old school takes no prisoners manager. We will need it with the inevitable crap that’s coming are way. 
 

Someone that has been around the block a few times, and no not Ben Gardner, or another young coach. 

Nicola cortese ? he did sweet fa, maybe you want Les Reed he did all the work. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

Good debate about this topic on Total Saints Podcast tonight

[LeBizzier69]

28 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Eh ? Do you realise the financial implications that have gone up in smoke for many of them.

Potentially gone up in smoke. Regardless of how they played yesterday it wouldn’t have been a given in the final.

[VectisSaint]

4 minutes ago, LeBizzier69 said:

Potentially gone up in smoke. Regardless of how they played yesterday it wouldn’t have been a given in the final.

and also none of them would have given a thought about promotion and the financial implications back in December. 

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, CB Fry said:

What shitty point are you making here?

The intern did it all off his own back? It was his idea?

Or even if you go along with your interpretation - he was happy to go along with it - so what then? Tonda is his boss so  the buck still stops with him. It doesn't exonerate Tonda.

Hats off for coming across as even more a twat second time round. People have rent and bills to pay you know.

Isn't he a student at Derby University on a work placement?

[Dark Munster]

The best polls are the ones that are close. 😉

Looks like a photo finish.

If you haven't voted yet, get your finger out!

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Eh ? Do you realise the financial implications that have gone up in smoke for many of them.

Of course I do. Do you realise how much he changed things around so that they got into this position. I’m guessing no.

[sadoldgit]

EPL - spy/scout on other teams whenever you like? Knock yourselves out.

EFL - spy/scout on other teams whenever you like? Knock yourselves out (unless it is after 72 hours before a game and then you become disgusting cheats and are the scum of the earth).

This is what this is all about. For God’s sake, get some perspective. We broke some dumb rules. We shouldn’t have done. We have paid a disproportionate and very heavy price. Why throw away something positive just because an administrative body is bloody useless?

 

[OzzySaint]

If we had got a fine and not the ott punishment we got then would fans call for his sacking??

[Paulwantsapint81]

Sorry of been asked already.

Did any of the players know what was happening?

How high does this go?

Is Tonda a total control freak or would he accept a proper old school manager act as DOF on a part time basis?

 

 

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, RedArmy said:

Errrrr, no! 
 

Take his point per game and extrapolate that across an entire season (94) and it’s not even in the top 10 points hauls in a championship season. 

 

Well for starters, I meant post January when he switched to a 4-2-3-1, and which was then further supplemented with larin for AA.

His return is 14W, 5D, 0L. Which is 2.47ppg, or 113 points in a 46 game season. A run that excludes beating Arsenal and Fulham, but belies the fact we were playing essentially 3 times a week post the international break with severe fixture congestion and against some proper quality sides.

Equally, there has been 31 championship seasons since it's inception in 04/05, or 744sides. Only 13 sides have exceeded your metric of 94 points... But why you would judge him on that when clearly the team improved significantly in January with the adoption of a 4-2-3-1, a proper target man, and the turn around in morale / confidence. I.e., If we started the new season with him, you would expect to pick up from where we are now, not picking up morale from a 12point prem season, languishing at the bottom of the championship, and without the right players for his system / bazunu.

Edited 5 minutes ago by Saint86

[Willo of Whiteley]

5 minutes ago, OzzySaint said:

If we had got a fine and not the ott punishment we got then would fans call for his sacking??

No, but that’s the fact, his or certain people’s actions cost us that opportunity to progress.

You can’t deny the results, but this has now happened and the club has to distance itself.