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Summer Transfer Window 2021


Dusic
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2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Well Bertrand and Ings not signing new deals, no talk at all about Vestergaard who is also entering the last year of his deal, that could be 3 Key players we need To replace before we even start 🙄

And Kelvin from the coaching staff, if the rumours about him taking over at BATE Borisov are true.

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15 hours ago, skintsaint said:

We wanked the VVD money on poor players and Leicester didn't waste their Maguire money and bought good players. Think that's been the big difference between the similar ways of running each club over the last few years.

Exactly, that's my point. The difference between us and them is how badly we were run until the wave of sackings in late 2018, for which we are still paying the consequences. Our signings since indicate that we are better run now but it still doesn't make up for the fact that the VVD money was mostly pissed away. Hardly anyone who we bought with that money has increased their market value in their time here.

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On 05/03/2021 at 17:52, Turkish said:

This whole blocking the pathway is a load of bollocks. The harsh reality is as a premier league club if you get one player as a first team regular every 2-3 years from the academy that is pretty successful. It always amuses me how people pull the blocking the pathway line out, using it as a reason not to bring someone in in case it stops xyz getting a chance. The truth is The good ones will make themselves impossible to leave out even just as an option off the bench, especially with so many allowed on the bench these days. Look at Tella, you’d have him as part of the match day squad every week right now, arguably you could make a case for him to start ahead of Redmond whereas N’Dulududulduudlududd you’d struggle to make a case for him to be part of the squad when Obafemi is fit. 

What did I say about if you’re good enough you’ll play? Tella proves the point. He’s gone from no where to arguably part of our best 11 in 3 months. Blocking the pathway is horseshit, the ones good enough make it.

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On 21/02/2021 at 16:09, Lighthouse said:

Well, we can either:

  • Sign him on considerable wages, knowing we’re going to see diminishing returns on a player who was never anything special to begin with.
  • Sign Minamino permanently, if Liverpool’s price is reasonable.
  • Sign another player, from abroad or the lower leagues, who’s probably ten years younger - if our finances will allow for a reasonable transfer fee.
  • Sign nobody and make do with Redmond, Djenepo, Armstrong and Tella in those positions. Obviously not a popular option but if finances are limiting it might be what we end up with.

Ralph has also hinted that there might still be a place for Elyounoussi and they are monitoring his performances for Celtic closely. With 13 goals and 2 assists in 38 games this season he might be in with a shout.

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38 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Ralph has also hinted that there might still be a place for Elyounoussi and they are monitoring his performances for Celtic closely. With 13 goals and 2 assists in 38 games this season he might be in with a shout.

I can only see him as a squad player at best, he's been relatively poor for Celtic this year. I don't think he's ever going to be a fit for this league, way, way, way too slow.

I'm not sure we can afford to have players like him as squad players tbh. I'd say sell him for as much as we can get and save the wages.

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2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I can only see him as a squad player at best, he's been relatively poor for Celtic this year. I don't think he's ever going to be a fit for this league, way, way, way too slow.

I'm not sure we can afford to have players like him as squad players tbh. I'd say sell him for as much as we can get and save the wages.

I mean 13 goals - 6 of which were in European competitions - is pretty good for an AM. I think it's better than Armstrong did for them. 

There must have been something we saw that made us want to sign him and we only need him as a bench player anyway, he doesn't have to come back and be our star man.

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3 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I can only see him as a squad player at best, he's been relatively poor for Celtic this year. I don't think he's ever going to be a fit for this league, way, way, way too slow.

I'm not sure we can afford to have players like him as squad players tbh. I'd say sell him for as much as we can get and save the wages.

Guess If he wants a bigger squad then keeping players you own is a good place to start. He obviously has got some ability so maybe have him as a squad player next season and see how it pans out. Elyanoussi, Walcott, Armstrong, Redmond, Djenepo, isn’t bad depth for the 2 attacking midfield slots. 

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Just now, Turkish said:

Guess If he wants a bigger squad then keeping players you own is a good place to start. He obviously has got some ability so maybe have him as a squad player next season and see how it pans out. Elyanoussi, Walcott, Armstrong, Redmond, Djenepo, isn’t bad depth for the 2 attacking midfield slots. 

With Tella and Watts, although it seems Ralph sees Tella as a striker and possibly Watts as a CM.

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3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

With Tella and Watts, although it seems Ralph sees Tella as a striker and possibly Watts as a CM.

Yeah was thinking Adams, Tella, Obafemi, N’duludululudulududduuudludu and Ings/replacement as the strikers 

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4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Guess If he wants a bigger squad then keeping players you own is a good place to start. He obviously has got some ability so maybe have him as a squad player next season and see how it pans out. Elyanoussi, Walcott, Armstrong, Redmond, Djenepo, isn’t bad depth for the 2 attacking midfield slots. 

Yep, exactly right. This was my point around keeping the likes of Elyounossi and lemina if the alternative option is to loan out. 

Without either being great, they are both solid options for a PL team. It’s clear Ralph wants a bigger squad and it’s also clear we’re not going to have cash to buy a replacement, so we may as well had use them for a season, even if that’s to sit on the bench. Who knows, they may win us a game (Like Lemina today). 
 

If we go into next season with youngsters, who aren’t yet good enough or ready to be a PL player, we could find ourselves in a bit of trouble like this year. 

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1 hour ago, SKD said:

Yep, exactly right. This was my point around keeping the likes of Elyounossi and lemina if the alternative option is to loan out. Without either being great, they are both solid options for a PL team.

He has looked completely out of his depth in the PL. I struggle to think of something he did well at that level.

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1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

He has looked completely out of his depth in the PL. I struggle to think of something he did well at that level.

Jesus Christ, for someone that likes to blow smoke up the club's arse you don't half give up on this lad easily. His last appearance for the club in the Prem was December 2019. If Ralph is open to giving him a chance when he comes back - something he hasn't said about any other of the senior players being loaned out - then why can't you be? He's had constant first team football which he didn't get at all under us and it's clearly done him the world of good as he's one of the few players for Celtic to come out of this season with any credit. 

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7 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Ralph has also hinted that there might still be a place for Elyounoussi and they are monitoring his performances for Celtic closely. With 13 goals and 2 assists in 38 games this season he might be in with a shout.

That’s media speak for not wanting to slag off our own player and lower his price. If other clubs think we’re desperate to get rid, they’ll offer less. Ralph basically said the same things about Boufal a year ago and look what happened.

 

Moi is not a Premier League player, he’s never looked close to one at any point since he arrived (I even remember seeing him in his first pre-season friendly and thinking, ‘wow, I hope he’s a bit better than that.’)

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He looked quite meh against Dundee yesterday. 

But then so did Edouard, and he is highly rated. 

Really difficult to tell with Scottish football, it's a bit like the Eredivisie, potential to find gems but also potential to pay decent money for flat track bullies who have a really good season. 

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37 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

He looked quite meh against Dundee yesterday. 

But then so did Edouard, and he is highly rated. 

Really difficult to tell with Scottish football, it's a bit like the Eredivisie, potential to find gems but also potential to pay decent money for flat track bullies who have a really good season. 

Wonder if we bid for Joey Veerman?

High potential, but you’d think that position is down the pecking order.

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30 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

High potential, but you’d think that position is down the pecking order.

Yeh I can't see us buying a centre-mid, probably our strongest position to be honest, we have 3 good ones and a couple of highly rated youngsters in Smallbone and Jankevitz. 

The spine of the team is pretty good with three good centre-backs for two spots, three good centre mids for two spots, and two decent strikers (but with Ings contract situation to resolve).  

It's the wide areas, Armstrong aside none of the wide players have cemented a place and we have two decent full backs with no back up and Bertrands contract running out, plus three GKs, none of whom are really good enough. 

So priority I think has to be a no.10 who upgrades on what we have and probably a full back who can cover both sides, I can see us maybe getting Williams on loan maybe even with a view to buy, he's got be pretty annoyed he was denied a loan and is then sitting on bench the whole time 

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22 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

That’s media speak for not wanting to slag off our own player and lower his price. If other clubs think we’re desperate to get rid, they’ll offer less. Ralph basically said the same things about Boufal a year ago and look what happened.

 

Moi is not a Premier League player, he’s never looked close to one at any point since he arrived (I even remember seeing him in his first pre-season friendly and thinking, ‘wow, I hope he’s a bit better than that.’)

So why weren't we saying Carrillo and Hoedt had a chance when they came back from their loans? Why did we agree to a fee for Lemina when his value could have skyrocketed if he performed for Fulham? 

There is obviously a difference in the eyes of the club between Mo Elyanoussi and the rest of these players.

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1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

So why weren't we saying Carrillo and Hoedt had a chance when they came back from their loans? Why did we agree to a fee for Lemina when his value could have skyrocketed if he performed for Fulham? 

There is obviously a difference in the eyes of the club between Mo Elyanoussi and the rest of these players.

Probably because nobody actually gave a sh*t about Hoedt and Carrillo to ask in the first place.

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16 hours ago, tajjuk said:

He looked quite meh against Dundee yesterday. 

But then so did Edouard, and he is highly rated. 

Really difficult to tell with Scottish football, it's a bit like the Eredivisie, potential to find gems but also potential to pay decent money for flat track bullies who have a really good season. 

Watched it too. Eduard was awful, Mo slightly better. The only players who looked interesting where Ajer, if Vestie doesn't extend, the Celtic left back, on loan from City, and the Dundee Utd keeper.

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3 hours ago, redkeith said:

Watched it too. Eduard was awful, Mo slightly better. The only players who looked interesting where Ajer, if Vestie doesn't extend, the Celtic left back, on loan from City, and the Dundee Utd keeper.

Yeh seen Ajer a few times and he does look like Vestergaard Mk 2, he's classy on the ball and very dominant in the air, obviously difficult to tell how much he is challenged at Celtic so it would be a bit a of a gamble, but I supposed the gamble our sort of club has to take. Plus he's still very young I think like 22, so plenty of room to improve, I wouldn't be surprised if he was on our radar. 

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9 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Yeh seen Ajer a few times and he does look like Vestergaard Mk 2, he's classy on the ball and very dominant in the air, obviously difficult to tell how much he is challenged at Celtic so it would be a bit a of a gamble, but I supposed the gamble our sort of club has to take. Plus he's still very young I think like 22, so plenty of room to improve, I wouldn't be surprised if he was on our radar. 

Only has a year left on his contract too.

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On 07/03/2021 at 22:28, Saint_clark said:

Jesus Christ, for someone that likes to blow smoke up the club's arse you don't half give up on this lad easily. His last appearance for the club in the Prem was December 2019. If Ralph is open to giving him a chance when he comes back - something he hasn't said about any other of the senior players being loaned out - then why can't you be? He's had constant first team football which he didn't get at all under us and it's clearly done him the world of good as he's one of the few players for Celtic to come out of this season with any credit. 

Sorry but this is a bad take.

For a start he hasnt had constant first team football because he has quite regularly been a sub, starting about half the league games this season.

Not sure many Celtic fans would agree his has come out of the season with any credit.

Watching him for Saints and Celtic it is totally clear to me that he isn't better than Redmond, Armstrong, Djenepo and Walcott in a Hasenhuttl system and you can probably add Tella to that list.

Had he gone to Celtic, become a key player and hit 20 goals in a shit league then maybe we could have thought about taking another look. But he hasn't. He has been average in a shit league.

But he just isn't good enough/suited to the PL, of that I am absolutely certain.

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7 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Watching him for Saints and Celtic it is totally clear to me that he isn't better than Redmond, Armstrong, Djenepo and Walcott in a Hasenhuttl system and you can probably add Tella to that list.

Tella doesn't play in that role, he plays as one of the front two, Walcott might not be retained given that he is 32 in the summer and has clear issues with injury, and Redmond will probably be seen more as a front two player than a ten going forward. Owing to this we have Djenepo and Armstrong who will really play those roles next season and Redmond can fill in too, we definitely need atleast one but probably two number tens in the summer, we don't have much money so Elyounoussi could easily be 4th choice.

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10 minutes ago, TWar said:

Tella doesn't play in that role, he plays as one of the front two, Walcott might not be retained given that he is 32 in the summer and has clear issues with injury, and Redmond will probably be seen more as a front two player than a ten going forward. Owing to this we have Djenepo and Armstrong who will really play those roles next season and Redmond can fill in too, we definitely need atleast one but probably two number tens in the summer, we don't have much money so Elyounoussi could easily be 4th choice.

We'll be lucky to get one attacking midfield addition over the summer, let alone two. On the basis that we've bought the bare minimum over recent windows, the highest likelihood is that we'll get none.

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Just now, verlaine1979 said:

We'll be lucky to get one attacking midfield addition over the summer, let alone two. On the basis that we've bought the bare minimum over recent windows, the highest likelihood is that we'll get none.

Personally I think we will retain Elyounoussi and try to sign Minimino, if we don't manage with him we'll probably spend 15m on a replacement, maybe someone like Lookman

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44 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Sorry but this is a bad take.

For a start he hasnt had constant first team football because he has quite regularly been a sub, starting about half the league games this season.

Not sure many Celtic fans would agree his has come out of the season with any credit.

Watching him for Saints and Celtic it is totally clear to me that he isn't better than Redmond, Armstrong, Djenepo and Walcott in a Hasenhuttl system and you can probably add Tella to that list.

Had he gone to Celtic, become a key player and hit 20 goals in a shit league then maybe we could have thought about taking another look. But he hasn't. He has been average in a shit league.

But he just isn't good enough/suited to the PL, of that I am absolutely certain.

https://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/mohamed-elyounoussi-official-further-year-long-loa-t136171-s1420.html

Indeed...similar comments about him that are on here.

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16 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

We'll be lucky to get one attacking midfield addition over the summer, let alone two. On the basis that we've bought the bare minimum over recent windows, the highest likelihood is that we'll get none.

Bare minimum? We've signed 5 players since the end of last summer, how many did you want us to splash out on, at a time of financial strain?

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32 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Bare minimum? We've signed 5 players since the end of last summer, how many did you want us to splash out on, at a time of financial strain?

We made three permanent signings, two of which covered huge gaps in the first XI (first choice RB after Cedric, first choice CM after Hoj) and a CB who we hope will make good a shortfall in quality that has persisted since the departure of VVD.

Walcott and Minamino were both last minute punts, so yes, I'd say that replacing three players we literally had no choice but to replace and a couple of hopeful loanees was the bare minimum - especially considering how woeful the few windows before that had been.

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8 hours ago, Dusic said:

Sorry but this is a bad take.

For a start he hasnt had constant first team football because he has quite regularly been a sub, starting about half the league games this season.

Not sure many Celtic fans would agree his has come out of the season with any credit.

Watching him for Saints and Celtic it is totally clear to me that he isn't better than Redmond, Armstrong, Djenepo and Walcott in a Hasenhuttl system and you can probably add Tella to that list.

Had he gone to Celtic, become a key player and hit 20 goals in a shit league then maybe we could have thought about taking another look. But he hasn't. He has been average in a shit league.

But he just isn't good enough/suited to the PL, of that I am absolutely certain.

If he isn’t better than Redmond then the poor lad really is in trouble. 

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26 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

If he isn’t better than Redmond then the poor lad really is in trouble. 

Agree. And if he’s not going to improve the squad then what is the point? If Celtic want him then we should let him go and look elsewhere. I’ve not seen anything to suggest he’s capable of performing any better than Redmond and that’s a very low bar now.

It’s vital that we get a new no.10 that can supply our forwards and contribute circa 8-10 goals a season minimum, which would leave Redmond very firmly on the bench. Unfortunately Walcott is not the answer, so that’s another position that needs filling. If the reports are true that Liverpool want Minemino back then that’s another place to be replaced, but I can’t see us signing 3 no.10’s in the summer (although that would be pretty exciting).

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On 05/03/2021 at 18:52, Turkish said:

This whole blocking the pathway is a load of bollocks. The harsh reality is as a premier league club if you get one player as a first team regular every 2-3 years from the academy that is pretty successful. It always amuses me how people pull the blocking the pathway line out, using it as a reason not to bring someone in in case it stops xyz getting a chance. The truth is The good ones will make themselves impossible to leave out even just as an option off the bench, especially with so many allowed on the bench these days. Look at Tella, you’d have him as part of the match day squad every week right now, arguably you could make a case for him to start ahead of Redmond whereas N’Dulududulduudlududd you’d struggle to make a case for him to be part of the squad when Obafemi is fit. 

I agree with almost every word Turkish.   Many people think there is a natural progression through the Academy and U23 / B sides and onto the bench.

The reality is that around 50%  never get past the U18 stage,  and only a handful of the eventual  U23's ever make it to a matchday squad.

In part, because the " regular " first-teamer holds good form and is seldom injured,  but mostly because they don't have " what it takes ".

The demands of anyone coming into a Prem. side and playing against experienced internationals is enormous, and cannot be compared to the "boys game "

at the lower level,  and even a few good games is no guarantee of a promising career.  Prowsey's 300 up ..disguises the fact that Ralph is the first manager

to put any real faith in him, and he was often used as a sub.in or as injury replacement by previous regimes.

Those we have seen " graduate " to the bench this season have done so through necessity because of Injuries / suspensions /etc.  

The club is in for another generational shift.  Koeman brought in 8 new players in his first year and fortunately most of them turned out to be good buys.

Now Ralph will need to take a good long look at those remaining at season's end... and make some big decisions. 

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11 hours ago, Dusic said:

Sorry but this is a bad take.

For a start he hasnt had constant first team football because he has quite regularly been a sub, starting about half the league games this season.

Not sure many Celtic fans would agree his has come out of the season with any credit.

Watching him for Saints and Celtic it is totally clear to me that he isn't better than Redmond, Armstrong, Djenepo and Walcott in a Hasenhuttl system and you can probably add Tella to that list.

Had he gone to Celtic, become a key player and hit 20 goals in a shit league then maybe we could have thought about taking another look. But he hasn't. He has been average in a shit league.

But he just isn't good enough/suited to the PL, of that I am absolutely certain.

Why does he need to score 20 goals? Armstrong is huge for us and the most he ever got up there was 15 in a full season, when they were smashing teams left and right. Elyanoussi is 2 away from that already, almost certainly going to do better than him. 

He may come back and go straight away but Ralph has said he's keeping a close eye on him and the point is he could come back and be out 3rd/4th choice attacking mid without costing us anything at all. Let's be honest if we sell Redmond to raise some funds and Mo is his replacement, he only needs to score one and assist one to match his contribution this season whilst being a constant starter. 

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10 hours ago, skintsaint said:

...it seems more positive comments than negative with a lot of people lamenting that he's been at the club while they had a shit manager rather than a good one? 

The question we need to ask is would he provide more than Redmond and given that he's doing similar up there to how Armstrong did, I would say yes he probably would. 

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9 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

...it seems more positive comments than negative with a lot of people lamenting that he's been at the club while they had a shit manager rather than a good one? 

The question we need to ask is would he provide more than Redmond and given that he's doing similar up there to how Armstrong did, I would say yes he probably would. 

You have to go beyond stats though and look at pace, because slow players can easily hit a ceiling when they move up a level, whereas faster players can learn and adapt

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11 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

We made three permanent signings, two of which covered huge gaps in the first XI (first choice RB after Cedric, first choice CM after Hoj) and a CB who we hope will make good a shortfall in quality that has persisted since the departure of VVD.

Walcott and Minamino were both last minute punts, so yes, I'd say that replacing three players we literally had no choice but to replace and a couple of hopeful loanees was the bare minimum - especially considering how woeful the few windows before that had been.

That’s not a bare minimum. The bare minimum would have been not loaning Walcott and Minamino, with maybe a couple of loans to replace Hojbjerg and Cédric instead. If five players is a bare minimum, what would be an average/healthy number of signings? Eight? Ten? Dream on.

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I think we've morally already agreed the deal with Walcott, haven't we? Both parties agreed the deal at £50k pw when his contract with Everton expires.

We may want to offer £10M for Minamino. Depends whether Liverpool want to take that, and whether the player prefers to stay with us or return to the bench at Liverpool.

Keep Elyanoussi as a squad player, unless we get a good offer.

Both Minamino and Walcott can play up top with Adams next season, as can Tella.

Finances dictate we need to sell Ings this summer.

We have to go with what we have or can afford.

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12 minutes ago, the saint in winchester said:

I think we've morally already agreed the deal with Walcott, haven't we? Both parties agreed the deal at £50k pw when his contract with Everton expires.

Hoping not, fingers crossed Tella can keep improving so we don't need to spend 2.5m a year on someone in decline.

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12 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Bare minimum? We've signed 5 players since the end of last summer, how many did you want us to splash out on, at a time of financial strain?

We’ve been in a time of financial constrain since 2014 according to the club. Sell to buy strategy, win the net spend trophy each year. Given we have made a profit on transfers since then unlike any other club it really shows how appallingly badly we have been run. 

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Bare minimum  seems like a left back to me.

 left back, a striker & another fullback if Ryan and Danny go.

additional striker, winger, right back the sort of that would be fab

Wouldn't have an issue if Walcott comes in on a year's contract. He had some very effective games before he was overplayed by ralph

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6 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

That’s not a bare minimum. The bare minimum would have been not loaning Walcott and Minamino, with maybe a couple of loans to replace Hojbjerg and Cédric instead. If five players is a bare minimum, what would be an average/healthy number of signings? Eight? Ten? Dream on.

Apologies, when I say 'bare minimum' I'm eliding the rest of the phrase: 'bare minimum not to voluntarily consign ourselves to relegation'. We could, of course, have replaced every departure with a 30+ year old loanee or an academy kid, but I'm assuming the club have slightly higher ambitions than the Championship.

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On 10/03/2021 at 12:22, the saint in winchester said:

I think we've morally already agreed the deal with Walcott, haven't we? Both parties agreed the deal at £50k pw when his contract with Everton expires.

We may want to offer £10M for Minamino. Depends whether Liverpool want to take that, and whether the player prefers to stay with us or return to the bench at Liverpool.

Keep Elyanoussi as a squad player, unless we get a good offer.

Both Minamino and Walcott can play up top with Adams next season, as can Tella.

Finances dictate we need to sell Ings this summer.

We have to go with what we have or can afford.

I think 10M is actually a pretty reasonable offer for him, to be honest. 
 

He’s been good without being exceptional. Certainly not a top 4/6 player yet, suits our system and would be a good transfer for both parties. 
 

With a heavy sell on fee and/or first dibs on him / buy back fee, I think there is probably a deal to be done. 
 

after this season I can see Liverpool spending big to try and wrestle back some power from city.  

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11 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

 

Underwhelmed. We're that skint we've no other option but to consider players out on loan to provide much needed depth. They're out on loan for a reason. Buzzing for the return of Elyounoussi, Hoedt, Valery, Lemina and Vokins in the summer 😒💩💩

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19 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Underwhelmed. We're that skint we've no other option but to consider players out on loan to provide much needed depth. They're out on loan for a reason. Buzzing for the return of Elyounoussi, Hoedt, Valery, Lemina and Vokins in the summer 😒💩💩

If you actually watch the video of the press conference Hasenhuttl is asked about the players out on loan and essentially says what any Manager would say.

Yes we monitor them. If they play really well on loan then we will consider if we can use them in the squad next season.

Obvious and correct answer to give and none of the loan players seem to have played really well anyway.

Does he see any of those you listed being part of the squad next season? No, probably not.

The good thing is he was very clear on needing 2x RB and 2x LB next season. I doubt Valery or Vokins will be included in that somehow.

Re Elyounoussi, Ralph clearly (and rightly IMO) decided he didnt rate him after his first half season, hence 2 years out on loan. We don't have space for him as already have enough #10s, so fully expect another loan.

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