Fraser Forster - Official: Signs for Spurs

[Chez]

2 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Fans tend to get very invested in players leaving etc. Provided they do so in a reasonable matter its all part of the game these days. Its their careers and the club's business. If we end up letting players go for a free then that's technically the club's choices and planning that bring it to fruition - whatever the reason. The only exception to that is when a player messes the club around - i.e. negotiated in bad faith, low effort, doesn't train etc.

So in fairness to Forster, he is fully entitled to see his contract out and leave, he's never kicked up a fuss with saints and stayed professional throughout - despite being in and out of the team and shipped out on loan. So i do think there is an element of him doing his time, feeling like he's had a rough ride without grumbling, and no one really being able to argue with him leaving. The club could have addressed the keeper position in any transfer window of the past 3 years frankly. It isn't the blame of either Macca or Forster that it hasn't been resolved.

Also agree that Macca has had a similar time at the club (albeit without the loans). Ultimately we've got two professional (if not spectacular keepers).

Fair point and I agree with that. I don't feel Forster owes us anything. I very much feel he was bound to depart (one way of the other) as soon as we loaned him to Celtic.

You could argue that `it has been resolved' though. McCarty has signed a three year deal. Forster departs. We now look to bring in another keeper - that will be younger and hopefully on a lot less money (freeing up wages elsewhere) and of course so shit hot that he claims the shirt and we all are happy bunnies.

[DT]

34 minutes ago, Chez said:

Agree. I never felt Claus was loyal. I just thought we gave him the best offer so he stayed. Whether that is true or not I don't know. You are speculating and about McCarty's decision making process though - he could have become a free agent and tested the market (as they say in the US). You are probably right though, we may well have been the best offer in town, but my point was more about the attitude towards Forster than thoughts about McCarthy. No one seems disgruntled about Forster snubbing us, which is strange. Usually players that want out/turn their back on Saints are given short shrift. I don't blame him. Its a football business after all. I repeat what I have said before. I suspect he wanted out after he was pushed out the door on loan - so he maybe would have gone no matter what the offer. 

Returning to the fans attitude toards Forster's departure. The massive dislike of McCarthy (on here at least) and the realisation that he is our number 1 next year seems to have grabbed the attention, meanwhile Forster departs, on free (which is bad for our coffers) and not a bad word is said. Do we all wish him well? No one feel snubbed? 

I wish him well and don't feel snubbed. Just that we have really mismanaged him, including dropping him for McCarthy in key games for no apparent reason. Compounded by McC being so bad. So my feeling would be that no wonder he feels his face doesn't fit after brilliant performances and yet still being considered not really worth the effort of pushing to keep (conjecture). 

In terms of McCarthy testing the market, have you ever heard of any club ever expressing an interest for him? Me neither. Speaks volumes. This blindness is a bit like our inability to really solve the centre back situation since VVD left. Which in part fuels my own thought that we actually need a new defensively minded manager (or at least more defensively) in order to solve our leakiness. Personally think we need to recreate that Wanyama et al model as a spine, and Forster would be a good part of that (certainly cheaper to retain than buy anew)

[Holmes_and_Watson]

I don't feel snubbed by Forster's departure. My feeling is that he was awarded a lucrative deal not long after we'd sold key players, and we're looking to secure the long term future of remaining ones. As much to maximise a sale price as anything. Forster was a key player at that time.

Since then he's had injuries, loss in form and confidence. My take is that, looking at the wage bill, the club tried as hard as possible to get him off the books, including being dropped for long periods and then sent out on loan.

Not the nicest of situations. He's not publically criticised us, or thrown toys around. That said, he's on that big contract. He's stuck it out, as he's entitled to do. We presumably offered significantly less for his new contract, and he feels he can do better elsewhere. I don't think snub applies.

I don't think McCarthy is altogether terrible either. They were much of a muchness, when Forster was struggling with form.  Forster, to my mind, is just a lot better when he's anywhere near form. His level of performance since his most recent return to the team, is the minimum of what we should be recruiting for. Since the last guy, Caballero aside, was Gunn, it's easier said than done to get.

 

[Katalinic]

Forster is definitely off (no great revelation there). Not a fan of Ralph.

[The Cat]

Anyone still think we should keep him? Absolutely awful for the first goal.

If that was McCarthy there would have been 15 posts on his thread slagging him off by now.

[skintsaint]

Awful a bit strong but could have done better.

Goal was caused by Che losing it and KWP deciding to run into the middle and mark no one.

[The Cat]

Oh, don't get me wrong, there were plenty of mistakes before the shot. However it should have been a routine save for a top flight keeper.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, The Cat said:

Oh, don't get me wrong, there were plenty of mistakes before the shot. However it should have been a routine save for a top flight keeper.

Don’t be silly. We were sitting right in line with it and he had no time to adjust or react. The shot went through his legs and just glanced off the inside of his right boot.

What do you think he should have done?

[The Cat]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Don’t be silly. We were sitting right in line with it and he had no time to adjust or react. The shot went through his legs and just glanced off the inside of his right boot.

What do you think he should have done?

Block it with his foot. He did that in the first half to a shot from closer in which came about because he scuffed a kick up the middle of the pitch to give possession away.

His footwork is slow compared to a lot of top flight keepers which is due to his size. He even kicked the post afterwards because he knew he should have stopped it.

[MAY-Z]

2 hours ago, The Cat said:

Block it with his foot. He did that in the first half to a shot from closer in which came about because he scuffed a kick up the middle of the pitch to give possession away.

His footwork is slow compared to a lot of top flight keepers which is due to his size. He even kicked the post afterwards because he knew he should have stopped it.

There are plenty of times that a ball goes through a keeper like that, especially when a player is completely unmarked and can pretty much shoot anywhere, so he needs to be thinking about all shooting options

 

maybe he was kicking his post because he is sick of being left completely exposed, Redmond not tracking back for instance made it a relatively easy shot

[Saint_clark]

People still missing the point. Yes, we can do better...but if we're keeping one of them this summer we should be keeping Forster, not McCarthy. I'd rather we get rid of both but thats not what's happening.

[ErwinK1961]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

People still missing the point. Yes, we can do better...but if we're keeping one of them this summer we should be keeping Forster, not McCarthy. I'd rather we get rid of both but thats not what's happening.

The point is Forster doesn’t want to be here. So how can you keep someone who doesn’t want to sign a contract?

[Whitey Grandad]

9 hours ago, The Cat said:

Block it with his foot. He did that in the first half to a shot from closer in which came about because he scuffed a kick up the middle of the pitch to give possession away.

His footwork is slow compared to a lot of top flight keepers which is due to his size. He even kicked the post afterwards because he knew he should have stopped it.

Too quick for him. And any other keeper to be fair. There was the whole of the goal to shoot at, our right hand side was empty.

[The Cat]

We're going to have to disagree on this one.

There was some poor decision making all around for that goal, it was easily avoidable and was the moment the game flipped. Just before that we were actually getting into some vaguely good areas of possession. Frustrating.

[AlexLaw76]

Just seen their first goal on MOTD

It started with a shite pass from Adams, then Perraud just stood off their players (he was 2-on-1 against), and Forster let in a soft goal from an unmarked player

Edited 1 May, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[eurosaint]

I personally thought he could have done better with both Palace goals and some of his kicking today was appalling !

He seems to be on his bike which is no disaster but means that we need a top class new keeper with McCarthy purely as back up !!

[Midfield_General]

38 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Too quick for him. And any other keeper to be fair.

You honestly think that no keeper would have stopped that?

Seriously? 

[Saint_clark]

5 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

The point is Forster doesn’t want to be here. So how can you keep someone who doesn’t want to sign a contract?

True. But we shouldn't be keeping McCarthy under any circumstances.

[nta786]

25 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

True. But we shouldn't be keeping McCarthy under any circumstances.

I'd be more than happy to keep him on as a 3rd GK, on a 3rd wage salary too to be fair. 

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

You honestly think that no keeper would have stopped that?

Seriously? 

Yep. Unless it hits them there is no time to react from that distance.

[Midfield_General]

I suggest you don’t watch Pickford in the Everton game mate, it will blow your mind. 

[Chez]

I thought the first goal was saveable and actually one of those saves that Forster usually makes (close to him) extremely well (he made one in the first half at the near post), but on this occasion didn't. A little disappointing, but not a complete fuck up. Not seen the second from a decent angle. Low and hit the post. Not sure he could be blamed for that one, although it seemed to take an age to get there.

Agree with other posts that his kicking was woeful. 

Edited 1 May, 2022 by Chez

[Holmes_and_Watson]

5 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

I suggest you don’t watch Pickford in the Everton game mate, it will blow your mind. 

Shouty, psyched up Pickford saving with his face, is a good excuse to show his inspiration again:-

 

[Lighthouse]

8 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

True. But we shouldn't be keeping McCarthy under any circumstances.

He's about the right level for a backup for a club like Saints. A weakness if called upon but hardly a liability; no better or worse than Blayney, Gazzanigga or Stekelenburg IMO. I don't think he was ever intended as anything other than backup when we signed him but obviously due to Forster's various issues he's played a lot more often than we perhaps envisioned. If the plan is indeed for him to be number two to someone much better, I'm alright with that.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

I suggest you don’t watch Pickford in the Everton game mate, it will blow your mind. 

I’ve just watched that game and my mind is not blown. I saw nothing comparable with yesterday’s incident. Unless you mean where Pickford had the ball blasted into his face from close range. If the shot had been placed either side or higher then he would not have been able to do anything about it. The save he made by diving across to his left was good though.

Eze hit the ball on the volley from ten yards out, which is closer than a penalty would be, yet you would not normally expect any keeper to be favourite against a penalty. If you’re expecting any keeper to be saving a shot from that close routinely then you’re going to be disappointed.

[Midfield_General]

Yes, it was the one to the left I was talking about, not the one that hit him in the face. 

Anyway, it's a game of opinions. I think having two such average goalkeepers has normalised situations like that where a better keeper makes that save, but ours don't, so some people have got so used to watching it that they think those are acceptable for a professional keeper to concede on a fairly regular basis and make excuses for it. 

But I'm not here for a row, and you always seem like a nice fella on here, so you have your opinion and I'll have mine, and let's leave it there. Enjoy your bank holiday  

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

Yes, it was the one to the left I was talking about, not the one that hit him in the face. 

Anyway, it's a game of opinions. I think having two such average goalkeepers has normalised situations like that where a better keeper makes that save, but ours don't, so some people have got so used to watching it that they think those are acceptable for a professional keeper to concede on a fairly regular basis and make excuses for it. 

But I'm not here for a row, and you always seem like a nice fella on here, so you have your opinion and I'll have mine, and let's leave it there. Enjoy your bank holiday  

You too sir!

Jolly decent having this discussion with you. Let’s hope for something better next season, in every way.  🌝

[Fitzhugh Fella]

According to those “in the know” on Twitter, it seems FF has not been offered a new contract. 
For me his woeful kicking let’s him down and that is a commodity every PL ‘keeper needs these days. 

[Chez]

21 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

According to those “in the know” on Twitter, it seems FF has not been offered a new contract. 
For me his woeful kicking let’s him down and that is a commodity every PL ‘keeper needs these days. 

Scottish Sun reported last summer that Forster rejected our contract offer. Strange story to print unless true.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

Scottish Sun reported last summer that Forster rejected our contract offer. Strange story to print unless true.

Could both be true? Offered last summer going into his final year. Probably on significantly lower terms, as he wasn't being considered as undisputed first choice. He rejected that. Now, the club haven't offered him anything concrete, despite some rumblings, making the tweets also accurate. Just a thought.

[Saint Garrett]

On 01/05/2022 at 06:53, ErwinK1961 said:

The point is Forster doesn’t want to be here. So how can you keep someone who doesn’t want to sign a contract?

That’s absolutely not true. He does want to be here. Problem is we extended Maccas contract. And Forster is the better keeper. 

[VectisSaint]

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

That’s absolutely not true. He does want to be here. Problem is we extended Maccas contract. And Forster is the better keeper. 

He doesn't want to be here on the terms he was (supposedly) offered last Summer (reported in the Scottish Sun). That's the same as doesn't want to be here, unless Saints improve the offer, and there is little sign that they will. I suspect Forster is already set up for next season, he has had 9 months to get something sorted, his performances in the last 4 months won't have done him any harm if he had not already been sorted before Christmas.

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

That’s absolutely not true. He does want to be here. Problem is we extended Maccas contract. And Forster is the better keeper. 

Do you have the inside track here SG?

I am not sure what difference it makes that Macca accepted a contract. Can you clarify? 

Forster was also offered a contract. He turned it down. If he wants to be here, then why not sign the contract? Does he want more money or is there something else?

[Chez]

6 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

He doesn't want to be here on the terms he was (supposedly) offered last Summer (reported in the Scottish Sun). That's the same as doesn't want to be here, unless Saints improve the offer, and there is little sign that they will. I suspect Forster is already set up for next season, he has had 9 months to get something sorted, his performances in the last 4 months won't have done him any harm if he had not already been sorted before Christmas.

Absolutely. He will probably end up being Chelsea's number 2 or suchlike on the £100k a week he wanted and good luck to him.

But if Saints had £100k a week to spend, it wouldn't be on him. 

[The Cat]

Poor today I thought. Obviously not the reason we lost but really should have saved the second goal and distribution was bad.

Compare his performance with that of Raya who was neat and tidy and  comfortable on crosses. Just goes to show there are perfectly adequate keepers out there who don't cost much.

[Saint_clark]

10 hours ago, The Cat said:

Poor today I thought. Obviously not the reason we lost but really should have saved the second goal and distribution was bad.

Compare his performance with that of Raya who was neat and tidy and  comfortable on crosses. Just goes to show there are perfectly adequate keepers out there who don't cost much.

There certainly are, so why are we so fucking incapable of finding one! 

Forster looked really pissed off today like he couldn't wait to get away from the shambles of a defence in front of him, and I can't blame him at all.

[SaintTex]

i cant speak to the metrics, but...

https://twitter.com/Jhdharrison1/status/1518907393987461123?cxt=HHwWhoCylcaOn5QqAAAA

[Far que]

willy to no1 keeper

[John B]

On 01/05/2022 at 04:34, Saint_clark said:

People still missing the point. Yes, we can do better...but if we're keeping one of them this summer we should be keeping Forster, not McCarthy. I'd rather we get rid of both but thats not what's happening.

But if our offer was not acceptable to Forster do you not think he has every right to refuse it

 

We do not know what was offered and we do not know what other options Forster has

 

But I do not think that either Goalkeeper is preventing the team  from performing better and replacing them is not as important as getting in some more effective attacking players

 

So I would be more than happy to keep them if we used the money to getting a PL standard striker so lower league players who may or may not score regularly in the PL

[Saint Garrett]

On 07/05/2022 at 11:19, Chez said:

Do you have the inside track here SG?

I am not sure what difference it makes that Macca accepted a contract. Can you clarify? 

Forster was also offered a contract. He turned it down. If he wants to be here, then why not sign the contract? Does he want more money or is there something else?

He was offered reduced terms to be 2nd choice keeper. He thinks he deserves to be no 1. If we hadn't signed Macca last summer, then I'm almost certain he would have been the one that was offered to stay, and they'd have let Macca go.  

[Neef]

He should go. 

The reality is we need a new No.1 GK who is better than both.

Alex has signed a new contract, so it wouldn't make sense to keep Forster as well.

[East Kent Saint]

Forster was best when we had top defenders , now we haven’t he has been exposed .

[Saint_clark]

5 hours ago, John B said:

But if our offer was not acceptable to Forster do you not think he has every right to refuse it

 

We do not know what was offered and we do not know what other options Forster has

 

But I do not think that either Goalkeeper is preventing the team  from performing better and replacing them is not as important as getting in some more effective attacking players

 

So I would be more than happy to keep them if we used the money to getting a PL standard striker so lower league players who may or may not score regularly in the PL

That's still missing the point. If Forster doesnt want to accept a reduced contract then of course that's his right. What I'm saying is there is no scenario in which we should be keeping McCarthy.

Also I couldn't disagree more about the importance of investing in a keeper. I think it should be our number one priority in the summer. Having a much better keeper would probably be worth an extra 10 points to us at least.

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

He was offered reduced terms to be 2nd choice keeper. He thinks he deserves to be no 1. If we hadn't signed Macca last summer, then I'm almost certain he would have been the one that was offered to stay, and they'd have let Macca go.  

This doesn’t make sense. If he thinks he should be number 1, what has McCarthy staying got to do with whether he stays or goes. Unless you’re trying to say the offer was to be number 2 to McCarthy. Fucking hell, if that’s the case we really have lost the plot. 

Edited 9 May, 2022 by Lord Duckhunter

[Chez]

8 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

He was offered reduced terms to be 2nd choice keeper. He thinks he deserves to be no 1. If we hadn't signed Macca last summer, then I'm almost certain he would have been the one that was offered to stay, and they'd have let Macca go.  

I'm not surprised we wanted to lower Forster's wages. The last contract we gave him was one of the worst business decisions we have ever made. If he can get better elsewhere, good luck to him. Let's spend his £100k a week on Henderson or suchlike. It's not Forster departing that I worry about, it's the quality of signing to replace him.

 

[Saint Garrett]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

I'm not surprised we wanted to lower Forster's wages. The last contract we gave him was one of the worst business decisions we have ever made. If he can get better elsewhere, good luck to him. Let's spend his £100k a week on Henderson or suchlike. It's not Forster departing that I worry about, it's the quality of signing to replace him.

 

He’s not on £100k atm, it was about £80k and that included bonuses. 

[Chez]

15 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

He’s not on £100k atm, it was about £80k and that included bonuses. 

Are you his wife, agent or bank manager? If not, I'm gonna go with the Scotsman, which says his basic salary is £93k a week. Add loyalty bonuses etc. to that and £100k ain't gonna be far off. 

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/fraser-forster-how-southampton-contract-offer-details-put-strain-on-possibility-of-celtic-return-3321492

 

[CB Fry]

 

Only what has been said before.

Plus a link to us signing an exciting young goalie from Manchester City. Something that can't possibly go wrong.

Edited 15 May, 2022 by CB Fry

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Not a massive surprise. Let's see how effective our recruitment team are. I liked Forster, but I'll be happy to welcome Mr McCarthy and Mr Cabbalero to the cl....hang on... 🙂

Edited 15 May, 2022 by Holmes_and_Watson

[The Curse of St Mary's]

He's on ridiculous wages so it makes sense plus he's average at best. He's not a dependable keeper by any stretch. However the handling of GK situation by club has been a shambles. Not announcing McCarthy contract very bizarre.